Spin aside, of course. I'm sure Fox would lie its ass off, ditto Rush, & maybe they could make the country think that 2 + 2 = 5. It's happened before.

But the plan is idiotic, too. The last thing that Democrats want to do at this point is to take ownership of a failure in Iraq, which should it be passed by both houses it surely would.

It seems very unlikely the bill will pass a fillibuster and avoid or overcome a veto. But even if it did I'm not sure your contention would hold. Once the dem plan is in place I suspect the public will still view this as bush's war (justifiably so in my opinion) and continue to associate the losses taken during the withdrawl as on his head.

Pu it this way: if a kid steals a car for a joy ride and drives like a maniac does the whole thing become the cops fault when they pull him over? My guess is the public will see the dems as the cops stepping into to put an end to Mr. Bush's wild ride.

And surely they don't have the votes to override.

So, politically, I'd say it's not so bad as Dave suggests -- the Dems get to say "oh, if only Bush hadn't vetoed our bill," etc. And Bush can't very well try to fake 'em out by signing it & then complaining later ... that only works with McCain-Feingold.

And politically it makes good sense because the American people want to get out of Iraq. So this is not only good policy it is also good politics, which makes for pretty typical Democratic governing strategy.

On the other hand, Senators and Congressmen can meddle in the military affairs without having to take responsibility. Being one of 100 or one of 435 will afford you that advantage.

This is pure politics by Obama and that is why it is so low. This is not real policy making by leadership but instead is grandstanding in order to get attention. All of this ignores the damage, at home and abroad, that it will do.

The press will eat it up and Obama will get what he wants. The more savvy will see through it and realize what a stunt it is. I expect Biden and others to issue a statement shooting it down very shortly.

But the plan is idiotic, too. The last thing that Democrats want to do at this point is to take ownership of a failure in Iraq, which should it be passed by both houses it surely would.

Politically, that may be true. But in the "real world", people are still continuing to die. And _someone_ is going to have to take ownership of it if it's ever going to end. Lord know this administration will never take responsibility for anything...

I have issues with congress telling the Pentagon or even the CiC how many troops they can have and where they can put them to prosecute a war. That is something the executive does, not the legislative.

I do agree that the democrats probably don't want this to pass, and it probably is as much a ploy on Obama's part to take a position on the war and force other candidates to do so as well.

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Vice President Dick Cheney shot back at Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, who has accused the...

I'm glad Obama is introducing this bill, it tells me a lot about his politics, which is something I've been waiting to hear about.