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	<title>Comments on: The Real McCain vs. the Newspaper McCain</title>
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		<title>By: Bill H</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_real_mccain_vs_the_newspaper_mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-266934</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;em&gt;I will give McCain credit for his standing up to the Administration on torture.&lt;/em&gt;

Except that he didn&#039;t really. He made a big show of doing so, but in the end the MCA passed with provisions permitting torture fully intact and McCain voted for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I will give McCain credit for his standing up to the Administration on torture.</em></p>
<p>Except that he didn't really. He made a big show of doing so, but in the end the MCA passed with provisions permitting torture fully intact and McCain voted for it.</p>
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		<title>By: LaurenceB</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_real_mccain_vs_the_newspaper_mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-266880</link>
		<dc:creator>LaurenceB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>For a legal Hispanic immigrant, it makes perfect sense to describe many of the &quot;anti-illegal-immigrant&quot; proposals as &quot;anti-immigrant&quot;. 

For example:
A county near where I live has attempted to enact a law that would penalize landlords that rent to illegal immigrants.  Now, the intent of the law may be reasonable, but the implementation of it - where inevitably landlords would be very hesitant to rent to hispanics - can appropriately be described as &quot;anti-immigrant&quot; or &quot;anti-hispanic&quot;.

In a nutshell, that&#039;s one reason why it is indeed often valid to describe those who advocate &quot;anti-illegal-immigrant&quot; measures, as &quot;anti-immigrant&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a legal Hispanic immigrant, it makes perfect sense to describe many of the "anti-illegal-immigrant" proposals as "anti-immigrant". </p>
<p>For example:<br />
A county near where I live has attempted to enact a law that would penalize landlords that rent to illegal immigrants.  Now, the intent of the law may be reasonable, but the implementation of it - where inevitably landlords would be very hesitant to rent to hispanics - can appropriately be described as "anti-immigrant" or "anti-hispanic".</p>
<p>In a nutshell, that's one reason why it is indeed often valid to describe those who advocate "anti-illegal-immigrant" measures, as "anti-immigrant".</p>
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		<title>By: Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_real_mccain_vs_the_newspaper_mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-266794</link>
		<dc:creator>Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>First, opposition to amnesty for illegal immigrants does not make one an opponent of legal immigration. Another strawman. Again, just because you say that a lie is the truth doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s not a lie. Just because I&#039;m against a &lt;i&gt;particular&lt;/i&gt; proposal doesn&#039;t make me anti-immigration.

Additionally, opponents of &quot;only illegal immigration&quot; don&#039;t have to &quot;push&quot; for anything. Personally, I would support relaxing our byzantine and hellish immigration policies, as well as establishing a true guest worker program (meaning, one that isn&#039;t just a backdoor to amnesty).

So, where are these &quot;most opponents&quot; who vilify these positions? Just saying &quot;build the fence first&quot; doesn&#039;t mean one is opposed to those other changes.

Again, you&#039;re setting up strawmen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, opposition to amnesty for illegal immigrants does not make one an opponent of legal immigration. Another strawman. Again, just because you say that a lie is the truth doesn't mean it's not a lie. Just because I'm against a <i>particular</i> proposal doesn't make me anti-immigration.</p>
<p>Additionally, opponents of "only illegal immigration" don't have to "push" for anything. Personally, I would support relaxing our byzantine and hellish immigration policies, as well as establishing a true guest worker program (meaning, one that isn't just a backdoor to amnesty).</p>
<p>So, where are these "most opponents" who vilify these positions? Just saying "build the fence first" doesn't mean one is opposed to those other changes.</p>
<p>Again, you're setting up strawmen.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_real_mccain_vs_the_newspaper_mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-266781</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So let&#039;s set the record straight: calls to end illegal immigration and reduce the illegal immigrant population is not the same as being anti-immigration. As many times as you and others repeat that lie, it&#039;s still a lie.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Oh really?  If you were correct, then amnesty and a path to citizenship for at least some illegals would not be vilified by opponents of illegal immigration.  This is due to the simple reality that there are about 12 million illegals in this country, most of whom have been here for years, and deportation is a completely unworkable (and inhumane) policy.

Additionally, if this were truly the case, opponents of &quot;only illegal immigration&quot; would be pushing for an increase in the total number of legal immigrants allowed in the country, and a more streamlined process for immigration in order to provide incentives for people to immigrate legally.

But most opponents of &quot;only illegal immigration&quot; vilify both of these options, which only makes sense if they&#039;re opposed to immigration generally, not illegal immigration specificially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So let's set the record straight: calls to end illegal immigration and reduce the illegal immigrant population is not the same as being anti-immigration. As many times as you and others repeat that lie, it's still a lie.</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh really?  If you were correct, then amnesty and a path to citizenship for at least some illegals would not be vilified by opponents of illegal immigration.  This is due to the simple reality that there are about 12 million illegals in this country, most of whom have been here for years, and deportation is a completely unworkable (and inhumane) policy.</p>
<p>Additionally, if this were truly the case, opponents of "only illegal immigration" would be pushing for an increase in the total number of legal immigrants allowed in the country, and a more streamlined process for immigration in order to provide incentives for people to immigrate legally.</p>
<p>But most opponents of "only illegal immigration" vilify both of these options, which only makes sense if they're opposed to immigration generally, not illegal immigration specificially.</p>
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		<title>By: Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_real_mccain_vs_the_newspaper_mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-266776</link>
		<dc:creator>Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Please, Alex, disagree with whatever you like, but setting up a strawman so you can knock it down is seldom a good idea, especially around OTB where you&#039;re gonna get called on it fairly quickly.

So let&#039;s set the record straight: calls to end illegal immigration and reduce the illegal immigrant population is not the same as being anti-immigration. As many times as you and others repeat that lie, it&#039;s still a lie.

And either you know it&#039;s a lie, and are therefore a liar, or you&#039;re a damn fool. Take your pick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, Alex, disagree with whatever you like, but setting up a strawman so you can knock it down is seldom a good idea, especially around OTB where you're gonna get called on it fairly quickly.</p>
<p>So let's set the record straight: calls to end illegal immigration and reduce the illegal immigrant population is not the same as being anti-immigration. As many times as you and others repeat that lie, it's still a lie.</p>
<p>And either you know it's a lie, and are therefore a liar, or you're a damn fool. Take your pick.</p>
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