Comments on: The Value of Higher Education

By: McGehee

McGehee — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

Not that I'm a representative sample, but I went into college right out of high school and was left with a view of college education very similar to Dean's.

By: James Joyner

James Joyner — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

Sure. As an 18-year-old kid, I didn't appreciate the process much either. But when I got out of school, the difference between myself and the non-college 22-year-olds was rather marked. Granted, some of that has to do with the type of people who go/don't go to college out of high school. But some of it has to do with higher education itself. I think the learning curve is definitely sped up.

By: Ron Johnson

Ron Johnson — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

I am perhaps an example of the âGood Will Huntingâ. For financial reasons I was unable to attend a university. Although I did sneak into the odd lecture here and there whilst visiting my indentured friends. Many who are still paying off student loans.

I have spent considerable time improving myself though reading of the material that I find relevant to life. I have become fairly well read so to speak.

I look upon the institutional learning system with disdain.

The only benefit I see of the university system, is the degree makes you more employable with the large corporations, and the pedigree degree from a prestigious university is the requirement to obtain membership in the âgood old boyâ network.

By: Mithras

Mithras — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

But, theoretically at least, what a college education does is train the mind. My analytical skills are far sharper, my ability to do research and shift credible information from junk is greatly enhanced, and so forth.

Is this a backhanded slap at Esmay? Because it's true.

By: Director Mitch

Director Mitch — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

My guess is the person who thinks like this is thinking about a liberal arts, poly sci, or a general "business" degree. I can assure you that the info absorbed during my time earning a BS in Electrical Engineering could not be picked up on the side or through casual reading. The average DEGREED person in a non-engineering discipline cannot talk intelligently about Maxwell's equations, digital logic or programming theory, much less advanced physics. And for me, while the the details are hazy, the knowledge is there and I have my undergrad degree to thank for it. I work in high-tech marketing and the best people in this segment are BSEEs with business skills. In 15 years in this field I have seen time and again those without technical degrees try to work in this field and fail, or go into marcomm where it isn't as important to understand technical detail (try to get a poly sci major to understand electron valences, semiconductor manufacturing technology, analog circuit design, etc. - it's not possible. You need fundamental physics to get a lot of this stuff, and you are not going to pick that up on the job). As for my MBA, I consider that a "time accelerator". The MBA teaches you at a young age what would take you a decade and a half or more to learn on your own working in industry. This is why I would recommend an MBA to anyone under 30, look hard at the reasons why someone is considering it if they are between 30-40, and tell anyone over 40 who has been working in business for 20 years that they should be able to teach most of the courses, so just skip it.

By: James Joyner

James Joyner — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

DM,

Agreed all around. Engineering and other vo-tech programs actually teach job skills; the traditional liberal arts fields have never aimed at that. And, yes, advanced degrees--and to some degree higher ed period--are time accelerators.

By: charles austin

charles austin — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

Similar to what Director Mitch wrote, if you are studying objective facts and underlying theory that have some utility and basis in reality, you will probably retain them. Unfortunately, many aspects of a contemporary liberal arts education have little to do with facts or underlying theory. Sure there's plenty of theory, but it is mostly detached from reality. Ergo, when you bump into the "real" world, guess what happens to your cherished esoteric postmodern "knowledge?" Anyway, the most important thing you are supposed to learn in college is how to think and how to learn at an advanced level and pace. It is the "how" much more than the "what" that matters, since in technological fields of study the "what" changes every few years and you'll only be able to keep up if you have mastered the "how." Fundamentally, I'm not sure I like the premise of the question though. Heaven help us if anyone is able to force one pedagogical method down everyone's throats.

By: blogoSFERICS

blogoSFERICS — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

Degrees of Risk
Dr. Joyner responds to this Dean Esmay post and offers the following: "But, theoretically at least, what a college education...

By: PoliBlog

PoliBlog — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

Why Go to College?
A few quick responses to Dean Esmay's unhappiness with College Life (they have to be quick, because I am off to teach class...): If one has a class in which one can literally not go to class, just read the...

By: lingosphere daily

lingosphere daily — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

College: Some Thoughts...
James Joyner has some thoughts on higher education, and what it means. Not for nothing, but I think I'm with some of the people he uses as examples. Undergraduate degrees, except in cases of Ivy League-type schools where pedigree is...

By: Signifying Nothing

Signifying Nothing — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

The value of college
Dean Esmay, who’s gone (back?) to college to get a degree so he can go back to working in the same job he used to be employed in before the tech bust, wonders if society overvalues the B.A. and B.S....

By: just procrastinating

just procrastinating — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

Higher Education
James Joyner at Outside the Beltway picks up on this post by Dean Esmay about the value of higher education. James talks about what you ultimately remember from college:
Most of what I specific things I learned in calculus, chemistry, and literature a...

By: Backcountry Conservative

Backcountry Conservative — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000

Back to School
Chris Lawrence initiates a discussion based on a post by Dean Esmay in which Dean discusses returning to college (something I am also doing this semester after a layoff of nine years) and the value of an education. James Joyner,...

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