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	<title>Comments on: Reid Invokes Rule 21, Democrats in Revolt</title>
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	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63146</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63146</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The only tool the minority has is public opinion. Itâs called âpolitics.â&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The guys on CNN had a hard time not smiling.  One of them said something like &quot;imagine, politicians engaging in politics!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The only tool the minority has is public opinion. Itâs called âpolitics.â</p></blockquote>
<p>The guys on CNN had a hard time not smiling.  One of them said something like "imagine, politicians engaging in politics!"</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63145</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63145</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Youâre correct he could certainly HAVE done this a year ago. So why not then?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Because George Bush was getting re-elected, and everyone at this blog would&#039;ve been yelling about what a shameless tactic this was.

As for Reid&#039;s selecting a politically opportune moment, HE&#039;S THE MINORITY LEADER, folks.  If the polls are high for Bush and birds are singing and the Repubs control both houses, what can he do?

The only tool the minority has is public opinion.  It&#039;s called &quot;politics.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Youâre correct he could certainly HAVE done this a year ago. So why not then?</p></blockquote>
<p>Because George Bush was getting re-elected, and everyone at this blog would've been yelling about what a shameless tactic this was.</p>
<p>As for Reid's selecting a politically opportune moment, HE'S THE MINORITY LEADER, folks.  If the polls are high for Bush and birds are singing and the Repubs control both houses, what can he do?</p>
<p>The only tool the minority has is public opinion.  It's called "politics."</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63144</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63144</guid>
		<description>&quot;an east-west culture war with [religious] echoes going back centuries.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"an east-west culture war with [religious] echoes going back centuries."</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63143</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63143</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the neocon&#039;s mess, and not mine, because I wrote the President before the war and layed out the reasons not to do it.  I said an invasion failed the tests of realpolitik, and would yield blowback for generations.  I said that if he believed that there were WMDs he should make that case to the UN and only go in under their mandate, because, I said, any US-led invasion would be seen as an east-west culture war with echoes going back centuries.

I called it, totally.  If anything, the blowback happened faster than I expected.

Now, don&#039;t give me all this stuff on &quot;the left&quot; when I lost my argument with the President and the neocons not on fact ... but on their lies to the American people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's the neocon's mess, and not mine, because I wrote the President before the war and layed out the reasons not to do it.  I said an invasion failed the tests of realpolitik, and would yield blowback for generations.  I said that if he believed that there were WMDs he should make that case to the UN and only go in under their mandate, because, I said, any US-led invasion would be seen as an east-west culture war with echoes going back centuries.</p>
<p>I called it, totally.  If anything, the blowback happened faster than I expected.</p>
<p>Now, don't give me all this stuff on "the left" when I lost my argument with the President and the neocons not on fact ... but on their lies to the American people.</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63142</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63142</guid>
		<description>Why oversimplify the subject?  The intelligence leading to war SHOULD be investigated.  It should NOT be a partisan free-for-all.  People also need to realize the following:
1.) Any investigation, or public reporting on the matter, has implications for the present situation in Iraq, the success of the mission, and the safety of our troops.  
2.) We are there NOW, and need to be successful in our CURRENT endeavor.  To point fingers at the administration in partisan bickering, or to absolve all Democratic leaders of any responsibility NOW, because they &quot;changed their mind in light of new evidence&quot; is just silly.

Your take is interesting though.  You&#039;re &quot;the Republican&quot;, however not responsible for cleaning up the &quot;Neo-Con&#039;s&quot; mess.  How is this possibly the &quot;Neo-Con&#039;s&quot; mess?  These sleazy Democratic Congressmen can dodge and weave all they want, and pretend that their vote didn&#039;t send Americans to die.  That is simply bullshit. 

Somehow, none of Congress, the U.N., or the International Community are responsible for this.  Their failed sanctions; their failure to efectively rebut the intelligence, before the war; their implication in Oil-For-Food; all seem to be conveniently forgotten.

The left wants direct a connection to the situation in Iraq and some vast right-wing conspiracy that doesn&#039;t exist.  I want the left, the U.N., the civilized world, to have some balls and do what&#039;s right.  Otherwise, why even bother.  Just pack our shit and come home.  NExt genocide that happens, just count us out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why oversimplify the subject?  The intelligence leading to war SHOULD be investigated.  It should NOT be a partisan free-for-all.  People also need to realize the following:<br />
1.) Any investigation, or public reporting on the matter, has implications for the present situation in Iraq, the success of the mission, and the safety of our troops.<br />
2.) We are there NOW, and need to be successful in our CURRENT endeavor.  To point fingers at the administration in partisan bickering, or to absolve all Democratic leaders of any responsibility NOW, because they "changed their mind in light of new evidence" is just silly.</p>
<p>Your take is interesting though.  You're "the Republican", however not responsible for cleaning up the "Neo-Con's" mess.  How is this possibly the "Neo-Con's" mess?  These sleazy Democratic Congressmen can dodge and weave all they want, and pretend that their vote didn't send Americans to die.  That is simply bullshit. </p>
<p>Somehow, none of Congress, the U.N., or the International Community are responsible for this.  Their failed sanctions; their failure to efectively rebut the intelligence, before the war; their implication in Oil-For-Food; all seem to be conveniently forgotten.</p>
<p>The left wants direct a connection to the situation in Iraq and some vast right-wing conspiracy that doesn't exist.  I want the left, the U.N., the civilized world, to have some balls and do what's right.  Otherwise, why even bother.  Just pack our shit and come home.  NExt genocide that happens, just count us out.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63133</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63133</guid>
		<description>P.S. - let&#039;s just close down all the courts .. all they do is rehash the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. - let's just close down all the courts .. all they do is rehash the past.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63131</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63131</guid>
		<description>First: Don&#039;t you think the &quot;rehash the past&quot; thing is kind of weak?  How many criminals ... let&#039;s just picture white collar criminals to make it a gentler example ... how many cheating accountants would just rather not &quot;rehash the past?&quot;

Second: After the neocon crew creates this F&#039;up, you demand that I straighten it out?  Seriously?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First: Don't you think the "rehash the past" thing is kind of weak?  How many criminals ... let's just picture white collar criminals to make it a gentler example ... how many cheating accountants would just rather not "rehash the past?"</p>
<p>Second: After the neocon crew creates this F'up, you demand that I straighten it out?  Seriously?</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63128</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63128</guid>
		<description>So rather than re-hash the past, complain about the present, and predict the dire circumstances of the future, why not say what your alternative is?

Just pull out of Iraq and let them hack their existence out on one another, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So rather than re-hash the past, complain about the present, and predict the dire circumstances of the future, why not say what your alternative is?</p>
<p>Just pull out of Iraq and let them hack their existence out on one another, right?</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63118</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63118</guid>
		<description>It is silly to assume Downing Street and Michael Moore are tied ... at all.  I&#039;m the Republican, remember?

As far as strategies, I think the lie defines it.  If they had a good strategy they could have stood up in front of the country and spelled it out.  The would not have had to BS us with &quot;a smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud.&quot;

A &lt;a href=&quot;http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/245746_iraq25.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recent poll&lt;/a&gt; was also very telling.  I&#039;d be willing to bet, if there was a way to measure, that our poll numbers in Saddam&#039;s Iraq (how good are your feelings toward Amercians) were actually higher than they are now, after a couple years of bad stategies (implemented by brave and honorable soldiers):

&lt;blockquote&gt;The confidential survey, leaked to the British media last weekend, suggests that fewer than 1 percent of Iraqis think the U.S. and U.K. military involvement in their country is helping to improve security. Sixty-seven percent feel less secure precisely because of the occupation. And â most worrying of all â around 65 percent of Iraqis approve of attacks on occupation forces.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When you F&#039;up that&#039;s what you get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is silly to assume Downing Street and Michael Moore are tied ... at all.  I'm the Republican, remember?</p>
<p>As far as strategies, I think the lie defines it.  If they had a good strategy they could have stood up in front of the country and spelled it out.  The would not have had to BS us with "a smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud."</p>
<p>A <a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/245746_iraq25.html" rel="nofollow">recent poll</a> was also very telling.  I'd be willing to bet, if there was a way to measure, that our poll numbers in Saddam's Iraq (how good are your feelings toward Amercians) were actually higher than they are now, after a couple years of bad stategies (implemented by brave and honorable soldiers):</p>
<blockquote><p>The confidential survey, leaked to the British media last weekend, suggests that fewer than 1 percent of Iraqis think the U.S. and U.K. military involvement in their country is helping to improve security. Sixty-seven percent feel less secure precisely because of the occupation. And â most worrying of all â around 65 percent of Iraqis approve of attacks on occupation forces.</p></blockquote>
<p>When you F'up that's what you get.</p>
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		<title>By: TMH's Bacon Bits</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63117</link>
		<dc:creator>TMH's Bacon Bits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63117</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Sen. Harry Reid: Mr. Grumpy-Pants Goes to Washington&lt;/strong&gt;

	I would much rather have Lady Liberty grace the top position on my blog a bit longer, but this just had to be shared again:
	&quot;It&#039;s the REPUBLICANS who are obstructing this government! Whatever happened to minority rule?&quot; (Photo courtesy of AFP, via...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Sen. Harry Reid: Mr. Grumpy-Pants Goes to Washington</strong></p>
<p>	I would much rather have Lady Liberty grace the top position on my blog a bit longer, but this just had to be shared again:<br />
	"It's the REPUBLICANS who are obstructing this government! Whatever happened to minority rule?" (Photo courtesy of AFP, via...</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63115</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63115</guid>
		<description>&quot;Too bad no one came up with a strategy to win in 5 or 10 eh?&quot;

Assuming any strategy could have produced such an outcome, or that the current strategy won&#039;t.  I guess people just have to be patient and see what happens. Would the Democrat&#039;s alternative worked?  Do (did) they have one?  Could any world leader have been capable of predicting exactly how this thing would have played out? 

&quot;Too bad they had to âfix intellegenceâ to get that questionable 30 year plan in action.&quot;

Assuming you accept Downing Street.  Probably think Michael Moore is an American Hero, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Too bad no one came up with a strategy to win in 5 or 10 eh?"</p>
<p>Assuming any strategy could have produced such an outcome, or that the current strategy won't.  I guess people just have to be patient and see what happens. Would the Democrat's alternative worked?  Do (did) they have one?  Could any world leader have been capable of predicting exactly how this thing would have played out? </p>
<p>"Too bad they had to âfix intellegenceâ to get that questionable 30 year plan in action."</p>
<p>Assuming you accept Downing Street.  Probably think Michael Moore is an American Hero, too.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63112</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63112</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If we succeed in Iraq and put down Islamo-fascist terrorism, thirty years from now none of this will make any difference. On the other hand, if we fail in Iraq, thirty years from now none of this will make any difference.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Too bad no one came up with a strategy to win in 5 or 10 eh?

Too bad they had to &quot;fix intellegence&quot; to get that questionable 30 year plan in action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If we succeed in Iraq and put down Islamo-fascist terrorism, thirty years from now none of this will make any difference. On the other hand, if we fail in Iraq, thirty years from now none of this will make any difference.</p></blockquote>
<p>Too bad no one came up with a strategy to win in 5 or 10 eh?</p>
<p>Too bad they had to "fix intellegence" to get that questionable 30 year plan in action.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63110</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63110</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If Reid really thinks that an indictment of Libby as written calls into question Bushâs entire decision making process for going to war then he really is a bozo.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I notice that the stories on this, floating up to the top (most read) status on Google News, do in fact tie this and the idictment into Bushâs entire decision making process for going to war.

From their perspective they&#039;ve got to grab some headlines because, as post indictment man on the street inteviews show, a lot of people are too busy with work, raising the kids, trying to find some time for recreation, to see how this all fits together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If Reid really thinks that an indictment of Libby as written calls into question Bushâs entire decision making process for going to war then he really is a bozo.</p></blockquote>
<p>I notice that the stories on this, floating up to the top (most read) status on Google News, do in fact tie this and the idictment into Bushâs entire decision making process for going to war.</p>
<p>From their perspective they've got to grab some headlines because, as post indictment man on the street inteviews show, a lot of people are too busy with work, raising the kids, trying to find some time for recreation, to see how this all fits together.</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63104</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63104</guid>
		<description>&quot;Together, America Can Do Better&quot;

Ha!  O.K., Mr. Reid, why not begin with a little honesty on your own part?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Together, America Can Do Better"</p>
<p>Ha!  O.K., Mr. Reid, why not begin with a little honesty on your own part?</p>
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		<title>By: DaveD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/the_washington_monthly-4/comment-page-1/#comment-63100</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12533#comment-63100</guid>
		<description>Anderson, sorry to get back so late on this one.  I guess my &quot;disgust&quot; stems strictly from the the timing.  Frankly, I think it is very well worth a thoughtful look on the events that led up to the decision to invade Iraq.  Not only from the standpoint of this particular affair but the pre-emptive nature of regime change that this action represents has significant repercussions on the future conduct of foreign policy.  One cannot be sure that a new administration will not vigorously pursue this avenue elsewhere.  That being said, I think things have moved far enough along in Iraq that (and this is my personal feeling only) major distractions should not detract from the chance of success. Does this mean that I think we should not criticize the administration? Hardly.  I think the public should question such issues as suffiecient troop numbers, prisoner treatment, the efficiency of training domestic security forces, etc.  But this timing on Reid&#039;s part is obviously political and would never be done if Bush was not perceived as being vulnerable. I mean, let&#039;s be serious here.  If Reid really thinks that an indictment of Libby as written calls into question Bush&#039;s entire decision making process for going to war then he really is a bozo.  You&#039;re correct he could certainly HAVE done this a year ago.  So why not then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anderson, sorry to get back so late on this one.  I guess my "disgust" stems strictly from the the timing.  Frankly, I think it is very well worth a thoughtful look on the events that led up to the decision to invade Iraq.  Not only from the standpoint of this particular affair but the pre-emptive nature of regime change that this action represents has significant repercussions on the future conduct of foreign policy.  One cannot be sure that a new administration will not vigorously pursue this avenue elsewhere.  That being said, I think things have moved far enough along in Iraq that (and this is my personal feeling only) major distractions should not detract from the chance of success. Does this mean that I think we should not criticize the administration? Hardly.  I think the public should question such issues as suffiecient troop numbers, prisoner treatment, the efficiency of training domestic security forces, etc.  But this timing on Reid's part is obviously political and would never be done if Bush was not perceived as being vulnerable. I mean, let's be serious here.  If Reid really thinks that an indictment of Libby as written calls into question Bush's entire decision making process for going to war then he really is a bozo.  You're correct he could certainly HAVE done this a year ago.  So why not then?</p>
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