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	<title>Comments on: Two Deadlines, Two Bad Premises</title>
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		<title>By: The Glittering Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The death of 1,000 cuts</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78273</link>
		<dc:creator>The Glittering Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The death of 1,000 cuts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78273</guid>
		<description>[...] I continue to have reservations about America&#8217;s will to continue occupying Iraq in the face of mounting casualties. Voices in the Democratic Party including John Murtha and John Kerry&#8217;s call for withdrawal. I think that James Joyner put this notion very well: It’s true that Kerry’s plan, like Murtha’s, calls for placing our troops in “garrison” for “emergency response.” While that sounds well and good, the political fact of the matter is that, once out, there is no going back in. If we are going to cut and run from “an escalating civil war” that we helped create, we surely would not try to impose ourself into a full blown civil war that developed after our departure. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I continue to have reservations about America&#8217;s will to continue occupying Iraq in the face of mounting casualties. Voices in the Democratic Party including John Murtha and John Kerry&#8217;s call for withdrawal. I think that James Joyner put this notion very well: It&rsquo;s true that Kerry&rsquo;s plan, like Murtha&rsquo;s, calls for placing our troops in “garrison” for “emergency response.” While that sounds well and good, the political fact of the matter is that, once out, there is no going back in. If we are going to cut and run from “an escalating civil war” that we helped create, we surely would not try to impose ourself into a full blown civil war that developed after our departure. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78256</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78256</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And, as far as I can see, my theory is just as proven as yours.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What theory did I express?

The fact you even saw a theory in my empty snarky remark, should tell you something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And, as far as I can see, my theory is just as proven as yours.</p></blockquote>
<p>What theory did I express?</p>
<p>The fact you even saw a theory in my empty snarky remark, should tell you something.</p>
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		<title>By: The American Mind</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78246</link>
		<dc:creator>The American Mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 06:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78246</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Charlie&#039;s Show Prep #69...&lt;/strong&gt;

 Only New Orleans, Gulfport, MS, and Detroit lost more jobs in the last year than Milwaukee. Numbers don&#039;t lie......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Charlie's Show Prep #69...</strong></p>
<p> Only New Orleans, Gulfport, MS, and Detroit lost more jobs in the last year than Milwaukee. Numbers don't lie......</p>
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		<title>By: davod</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78219</link>
		<dc:creator>davod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78219</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t switch me off when I say this but look at what Kerry did with the North Vietnamese.  He attended at least two briefings with the North in Paris.

He is doing it again.  The ratbags have lost in Iraq.  They are making a lot of noise and killing people but essentially they have lost.

He wants to get everyone together and have a conference.  He wants to give credibility to those who deserve condemnation.  

He has gone back to the 70s.  A conference will extend the killing and give the ratbags hope that they can reverse three elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don't switch me off when I say this but look at what Kerry did with the North Vietnamese.  He attended at least two briefings with the North in Paris.</p>
<p>He is doing it again.  The ratbags have lost in Iraq.  They are making a lot of noise and killing people but essentially they have lost.</p>
<p>He wants to get everyone together and have a conference.  He wants to give credibility to those who deserve condemnation.  </p>
<p>He has gone back to the 70s.  A conference will extend the killing and give the ratbags hope that they can reverse three elections.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78215</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78215</guid>
		<description>Jim:

Ah. Well, there&#039;s two deadlines in Kerry&#039;s suggestion. In the post, I was reacting mostly to the second but in my response to you I was reacting to the first.

So, the May 15 deadline would likely cause and increase in attacks to make it harder to meet.  

But let&#039;s say they meet it anyway.  The second deadline would create a different incentive--to keep their powder dry until the U.S. forces left, under the reasonable assumption they wouldn&#039;t be coming back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim:</p>
<p>Ah. Well, there's two deadlines in Kerry's suggestion. In the post, I was reacting mostly to the second but in my response to you I was reacting to the first.</p>
<p>So, the May 15 deadline would likely cause and increase in attacks to make it harder to meet.  </p>
<p>But let's say they meet it anyway.  The second deadline would create a different incentive--to keep their powder dry until the U.S. forces left, under the reasonable assumption they wouldn't be coming back.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Henley</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78214</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Henley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78214</guid>
		<description>K, in your main post you suggested that the insurgents&#039; natural reaction would be to rest up until after the US left. Now you&#039;re talking about them possibly wanting to launch a couple of spectacular attacks *before* the US leaves. I got confused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K, in your main post you suggested that the insurgents' natural reaction would be to rest up until after the US left. Now you're talking about them possibly wanting to launch a couple of spectacular attacks *before* the US leaves. I got confused.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78210</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78210</guid>
		<description>Probably both.  But the ones after would go unanswered since we aren&#039;t there.  

Without a deadline the attacks are just bumps in the road.  With, anything that pushed negotiations past May 15 equals Game Over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably both.  But the ones after would go unanswered since we aren't there.  </p>
<p>Without a deadline the attacks are just bumps in the road.  With, anything that pushed negotiations past May 15 equals Game Over.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Henley</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78209</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Henley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78209</guid>
		<description>Wait, James, would these well-timed attacks be &lt;em&gt;before&lt;/em&gt; May 15 or after?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, James, would these well-timed attacks be <em>before</em> May 15 or after?</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78206</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78206</guid>
		<description>Jim,

The incentive argument is plausible, to be sure. But deadlines are double edged.  

Basically, we give the terrorists even more incentive to disrupt things if all they have to do is run out the clock for six weeks.  A couple of well timed attacks could surely derail things past the magic May 15 deadline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>The incentive argument is plausible, to be sure. But deadlines are double edged.  </p>
<p>Basically, we give the terrorists even more incentive to disrupt things if all they have to do is run out the clock for six weeks.  A couple of well timed attacks could surely derail things past the magic May 15 deadline.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Henley</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78203</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Henley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 20:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78203</guid>
		<description>James, &quot;progress&quot; is so slow toward forming a national unity government for two reasons:

1. There&#039;s no actual national unity. Unity governments require &lt;em&gt;some&lt;/em&gt; underlying unity of purpose.

2. The current incumbents don&#039;t &lt;em&gt;need&lt;/em&gt; progress. &lt;em&gt;They&#039;ve already got jobs&lt;/em&gt;. The checks keep coming in. They still get to feather their beds with patronage; the ones in charge of Things That Go Bang (Interior and Defense) still get to attack their enemies and the ones in charge of Raking In Gobs Of Cash (Oil and Construction) still get to skim the cream off the top of ministerial business.

Actually agreeing to a new government puts the power and perqs of the &quot;interim&quot; regime members at risk. If there were some &quot;accountability moment&quot; looming - frex, if failure to form a government in, oh, 90 days meant a new round of elections in which the principals risked discipline at the hands of a disgruntled electorate - they&#039;d have some incentive to make a deal, but so far as I know there is no such provision.

That&#039;s why Straw and Rice are a lot more anxious to get a new government officially formed than Messrs Jafaari and Jabr (among others). For the latter two, there&#039;s nowhere to go but down.

Kerry&#039;s plan, for all its flaws, at least provides a stick to thwack Iraq&#039;s elites into doing what we at least theoretically want: get their act together on normalizing the country&#039;s governance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, "progress" is so slow toward forming a national unity government for two reasons:</p>
<p>1. There's no actual national unity. Unity governments require <em>some</em> underlying unity of purpose.</p>
<p>2. The current incumbents don't <em>need</em> progress. <em>They've already got jobs</em>. The checks keep coming in. They still get to feather their beds with patronage; the ones in charge of Things That Go Bang (Interior and Defense) still get to attack their enemies and the ones in charge of Raking In Gobs Of Cash (Oil and Construction) still get to skim the cream off the top of ministerial business.</p>
<p>Actually agreeing to a new government puts the power and perqs of the "interim" regime members at risk. If there were some "accountability moment" looming - frex, if failure to form a government in, oh, 90 days meant a new round of elections in which the principals risked discipline at the hands of a disgruntled electorate - they'd have some incentive to make a deal, but so far as I know there is no such provision.</p>
<p>That's why Straw and Rice are a lot more anxious to get a new government officially formed than Messrs Jafaari and Jabr (among others). For the latter two, there's nowhere to go but down.</p>
<p>Kerry's plan, for all its flaws, at least provides a stick to thwack Iraq's elites into doing what we at least theoretically want: get their act together on normalizing the country's governance.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78186</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78186</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Things are not going as well in Iraq as we would likeThings are not going as well in Iraq as we would like...&lt;/i&gt;

Things in Iraq are going a lot worse than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Things are not going as well in Iraq as we would likeThings are not going as well in Iraq as we would like...</i></p>
<p>Things in Iraq are going a lot worse than that.</p>
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		<title>By: MrGone</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78184</link>
		<dc:creator>MrGone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78184</guid>
		<description>P.S.

If you&#039;re right, it just proves that we have one of the most incompetant governments in history.  If I&#039;m right, our government is doing something that they should - protecting our national interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.</p>
<p>If you're right, it just proves that we have one of the most incompetant governments in history.  If I'm right, our government is doing something that they should - protecting our national interests.</p>
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		<title>By: MrGone</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78183</link>
		<dc:creator>MrGone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78183</guid>
		<description>McGehee,

I know I should have expected that kind of response.  To many, it sounds like one of those conspiracy-theory-nut-job rants.  But after looking at all this for some time now, I can&#039;t find any better rationale.  And, as far as I can see, my theory is just as proven as yours.  Just remember, this is starting now and will be in full swing within 5 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McGehee,</p>
<p>I know I should have expected that kind of response.  To many, it sounds like one of those conspiracy-theory-nut-job rants.  But after looking at all this for some time now, I can't find any better rationale.  And, as far as I can see, my theory is just as proven as yours.  Just remember, this is starting now and will be in full swing within 5 years.</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78178</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78178</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Welcome to the age of the resource wars.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When hot air becomes the most cost-effective source of energy, watch out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Welcome to the age of the resource wars.</p></blockquote>
<p>When hot air becomes the most cost-effective source of energy, watch out.</p>
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		<title>By: Radi</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/comment-page-1/#comment-78169</link>
		<dc:creator>Radi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/two_deadlines_two_bad_premises/#comment-78169</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;As an aside, Kevin Drum is right when he criticizes the administration for trying to do Iraqi democracy on the cheap&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I am not sure about your characterization of Drum&#039;s criticism, James.  His main point is that Bush doesn&#039;t give a damn about democracy in Iraq (and the middle east, for that matter)--Drumm argues that the record shows that he never has.  Is this what you are agreeing with?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As an aside, Kevin Drum is right when he criticizes the administration for trying to do Iraqi democracy on the cheap</p></blockquote>
<p>I am not sure about your characterization of Drum's criticism, James.  His main point is that Bush doesn't give a damn about democracy in Iraq (and the middle east, for that matter)--Drumm argues that the record shows that he never has.  Is this what you are agreeing with?</p>
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