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	<title>Comments on: Undecideds: Obama Won Debate</title>
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		<title>By: James M.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515171</link>
		<dc:creator>James M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515171</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m an independent and what I saw was nothing really impressive.  It looks like a tie to me but, that is also a loss for McCain in my opinion.  McCain really needed to stand out especially after the whole stopping the campaign to work on the financial crisis thing.  It would appear to me McCain either needed to perform some miracle either with the financial crisis or stand out in the debate to gain some points but, it seems he did neither.  So if I were him I would be trying a new strategy to attract the attention of the independent voter.  As it stands right now I am still leaning his way but, if Obama can clarify some of his positions on issues such as the Second  Amendment, abortion, national security, and border safety then I could be have an affirmative position. But every time I turn around he is changing his position so at this point even though I don&#039;t agree totally with McCain I at least know where he stands. I look at it this way I will probably get 75% of what I am looking for from McCain and 40-50% from Obama so I am probably going with McCain at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm an independent and what I saw was nothing really impressive.  It looks like a tie to me but, that is also a loss for McCain in my opinion.  McCain really needed to stand out especially after the whole stopping the campaign to work on the financial crisis thing.  It would appear to me McCain either needed to perform some miracle either with the financial crisis or stand out in the debate to gain some points but, it seems he did neither.  So if I were him I would be trying a new strategy to attract the attention of the independent voter.  As it stands right now I am still leaning his way but, if Obama can clarify some of his positions on issues such as the Second  Amendment, abortion, national security, and border safety then I could be have an affirmative position. But every time I turn around he is changing his position so at this point even though I don't agree totally with McCain I at least know where he stands. I look at it this way I will probably get 75% of what I am looking for from McCain and 40-50% from Obama so I am probably going with McCain at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515155</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A new USA Today/Gallup Poll shows 46% of people who watched Friday night&#039;s presidential debate say Sen. Barack Obama did a better job than Sen. John McCain; 34% said McCain did better. 

Must be more of that &lt;em&gt;vast left wing conspiracy&lt;/em&gt;...

PS... bit, this is what &lt;em&gt;citing a poll,&lt;/em&gt; is. Please take notes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A new USA Today/Gallup Poll shows 46% of people who watched Friday night's presidential debate say Sen. Barack Obama did a better job than Sen. John McCain; 34% said McCain did better. </p>
<p>Must be more of that <em>vast left wing conspiracy</em>...</p>
<p>PS... bit, this is what <em>citing a poll,</em> is. Please take notes.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Almeida</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515151</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Almeida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515151</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Here&#039;s a question to the room;

When&#039;s the last election CBS polling didn&#039;t lean toward the Democrat?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Since Obama has been ahead of McCain in most national polls though this election cycle, I googled &quot;CBS polling 2004&quot;, and on 23 Sep 2004 they &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/23/opinion/polls/main645322.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reported&lt;/a&gt; a 50/41 Bush lead.  Indeed, Bush led in a large majority of the CBS polls I could find quickly.  Makes sense, since Bush won pretty handily.

So then I got curious and wanted to see if CBS ever had McCain ahead of Obama this cycle.

On Sep. 4, CBS had McCain and Obama tied at 42% each.  Most polls have shown an Obama lead for most of the cycle, so while McCain could very well win, it is not at all unusual for any poll to show an Obama lead.

I went to RCP, Pollster, and Fivethirtyeight, and it does not look like CBS has been doing a lot of polling this cycle.  I could find 2 national polls from September, but didn&#039;t bother to dig backwards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Here's a question to the room;</p>
<p>When's the last election CBS polling didn't lean toward the Democrat?</p></blockquote>
<p>Since Obama has been ahead of McCain in most national polls though this election cycle, I googled "CBS polling 2004", and on 23 Sep 2004 they <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/23/opinion/polls/main645322.shtml" rel="nofollow">reported</a> a 50/41 Bush lead.  Indeed, Bush led in a large majority of the CBS polls I could find quickly.  Makes sense, since Bush won pretty handily.</p>
<p>So then I got curious and wanted to see if CBS ever had McCain ahead of Obama this cycle.</p>
<p>On Sep. 4, CBS had McCain and Obama tied at 42% each.  Most polls have shown an Obama lead for most of the cycle, so while McCain could very well win, it is not at all unusual for any poll to show an Obama lead.</p>
<p>I went to RCP, Pollster, and Fivethirtyeight, and it does not look like CBS has been doing a lot of polling this cycle.  I could find 2 national polls from September, but didn't bother to dig backwards.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515139</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 03:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515139</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Well, for example... did yuou happen to actually read the whole of the poll you&#039;re citing?

Bit, please show where in this thread I cited a poll...

(Shrug)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Tell me bit, can you tie your own shoes, or do you need help? No wonder you think Palin is cool...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Well, for example... did yuou happen to actually read the whole of the poll you're citing?</p>
<p>Bit, please show where in this thread I cited a poll...</p>
<p>(Shrug)</p></blockquote>
<p>Tell me bit, can you tie your own shoes, or do you need help? No wonder you think Palin is cool...</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515133</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 01:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515133</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Bit, please show where in this thread I cited a poll...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(Shrug)


&lt;blockquote&gt;The general level of whining from the right indicates an Obama win. It was a very narrow one on points, but its all he needed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You&#039;re citing a narrow win here. Based on.... what, exactly?
 
Oh, I see... you&#039;re just stirring the pot.
Again, you&#039;re not worth my time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Bit, please show where in this thread I cited a poll...</p></blockquote>
<p>(Shrug)</p>
<blockquote><p>The general level of whining from the right indicates an Obama win. It was a very narrow one on points, but its all he needed.</p></blockquote>
<p>You're citing a narrow win here. Based on.... what, exactly?</p>
<p>Oh, I see... you're just stirring the pot.<br />
Again, you're not worth my time.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515126</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515126</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Well, for example... did yuou happen to actually read the whole of the poll you&#039;re citing?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Bit, please show where in this thread I cited a poll...

Either learn how to read, or go hang out with the slow kids.

BTW Thanks for the demonstration. You have demonstrated you are not very bright, but  then again, I already knew that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Well, for example... did yuou happen to actually read the whole of the poll you're citing?</p></blockquote>
<p>Bit, please show where in this thread I cited a poll...</p>
<p>Either learn how to read, or go hang out with the slow kids.</p>
<p>BTW Thanks for the demonstration. You have demonstrated you are not very bright, but  then again, I already knew that.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515123</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515123</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a question to the room;

When&#039;s the last election CBS polling didn&#039;t lean toward the Democrat? 

Bonus: Isn&#039;t it interesting that CBS provides none of the internals?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here's a question to the room;</p>
<p>When's the last election CBS polling didn't lean toward the Democrat? </p>
<p>Bonus: Isn't it interesting that CBS provides none of the internals?</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515121</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515121</guid>
		<description>Well, for example... did yuou happen to actually read the whole of the poll you&#039;re citing?

Based on your comments, I don&#039;t imagine you&#039;ve bothered going beyond CNN&#039;s headlines. You seem unable to read down so far as to find things that defeat your arguments, as with another thread. Had you bothered in this case,  you&#039;d have found:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The results may be favoring Obama simply because more Democrats than Republicans tuned in to the debate. Of the debate-watchers questioned in this poll, 41 percent of the respondents identified themselves as Democrats, 27 percent as Republicans and 30 percent as independents.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

They go on.

&lt;blockquote&gt;“It can be reasonably concluded, especially after accounting for the slight Democratic bias in the survey, that we witnessed a tie in Mississippi tonight,” CNN Senior Political Researcher Alan Silverleib said. “But given the direction of the campaign over the last couple of weeks, a tie translates to a win for Obama.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Like I said... some people require actual effort to defeat. You don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, for example... did yuou happen to actually read the whole of the poll you're citing?</p>
<p>Based on your comments, I don't imagine you've bothered going beyond CNN's headlines. You seem unable to read down so far as to find things that defeat your arguments, as with another thread. Had you bothered in this case,  you'd have found:</p>
<blockquote><p>
The results may be favoring Obama simply because more Democrats than Republicans tuned in to the debate. Of the debate-watchers questioned in this poll, 41 percent of the respondents identified themselves as Democrats, 27 percent as Republicans and 30 percent as independents.</p></blockquote>
<p>They go on.</p>
<blockquote><p>“It can be reasonably concluded, especially after accounting for the slight Democratic bias in the survey, that we witnessed a tie in Mississippi tonight,” CNN Senior Political Researcher Alan Silverleib said. “But given the direction of the campaign over the last couple of weeks, a tie translates to a win for Obama.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Like I said... some people require actual effort to defeat. You don't.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515108</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 19:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515108</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;when you demonstrably cut and paste talking points&lt;/blockquote&gt;

By all means, demonstrate...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>when you demonstrably cut and paste talking points</p></blockquote>
<p>By all means, demonstrate...</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515099</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515099</guid>
		<description>I think we should be cautious about relying too heavily on the results of this particular poll.  Based on the description at the link, the results were pretty evenly divided among &#147;Obama won&#148;, &#147;McCain won&#148; and &#147;Draw&#148; with &#147;Draw&#148; and &#147;Obama won&#148; being within the margin of error of each other.

Additionally, I found no way to determine whether the poll was of people who self-identified as both uncommitted and registered voters or registered voters who self-identified as uncommitted.  The poll does not seem to be of likely voters.

So, basically, much ado about nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we should be cautious about relying too heavily on the results of this particular poll.  Based on the description at the link, the results were pretty evenly divided among &#8220;Obama won&#8221;, &#8220;McCain won&#8221; and &#8220;Draw&#8221; with &#8220;Draw&#8221; and &#8220;Obama won&#8221; being within the margin of error of each other.</p>
<p>Additionally, I found no way to determine whether the poll was of people who self-identified as both uncommitted and registered voters or registered voters who self-identified as uncommitted.  The poll does not seem to be of likely voters.</p>
<p>So, basically, much ado about nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: KVC</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515098</link>
		<dc:creator>KVC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515098</guid>
		<description>I have a real problem with anyone who at this stage of life and the election, does not have enough moral or social barrings to lead them a direction and chooses to be called an undecided. It is real scary if the fate of the country is in their hands. Who or what is going to push these people to one side or the other, Leno, Springsteen, Damon, or the NY Times or ABC? It will not be an specific &quot;issue&quot; at this point.  I guess it is no different than a party member who would vote for Hitler rather than to vote for a republican or a democrat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a real problem with anyone who at this stage of life and the election, does not have enough moral or social barrings to lead them a direction and chooses to be called an undecided. It is real scary if the fate of the country is in their hands. Who or what is going to push these people to one side or the other, Leno, Springsteen, Damon, or the NY Times or ABC? It will not be an specific "issue" at this point.  I guess it is no different than a party member who would vote for Hitler rather than to vote for a republican or a democrat.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515091</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 17:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515091</guid>
		<description>IS what you&#039;re doing, Anjin, &#039;creative thinking&#039;? As in &quot;Fantasy&quot;?

As for copying from other kids, I&#039;d watch that charge if I were you, when you demonstrably cut and paste talking points, without even giving them much consideration... as I point out elsewhere...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IS what you're doing, Anjin, 'creative thinking'? As in "Fantasy"?</p>
<p>As for copying from other kids, I'd watch that charge if I were you, when you demonstrably cut and paste talking points, without even giving them much consideration... as I point out elsewhere...</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515088</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 16:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515088</guid>
		<description>Rodney, do try and do some creative thinking of your own one of these days. Copying from the other kids is poor form, even if you do change the wording around.

Of course if you can produce a poll or two that actually show Obama tanking...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rodney, do try and do some creative thinking of your own one of these days. Copying from the other kids is poor form, even if you do change the wording around.</p>
<p>Of course if you can produce a poll or two that actually show Obama tanking...</p>
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		<title>By: rodney dill</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515087</link>
		<dc:creator>rodney dill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 16:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515087</guid>
		<description>The general level of excuses and sidestepping from the left indicates a McCain win. It was a very narrow one on points, but its all he needed. Obama is tanking and badly needed a big win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The general level of excuses and sidestepping from the left indicates a McCain win. It was a very narrow one on points, but its all he needed. Obama is tanking and badly needed a big win.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/undecideds_obama_won_debate/comment-page-1/#comment-515085</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 16:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25457#comment-515085</guid>
		<description>Sure Bit sure, I am a ranter grasping at straws. That explains why conservative columnists are in a near panic about Palin&#039;s performance (or lack thereof) with some even calling for her removal from the ticket.

As for Biden. excluding the press from one event, that&#039;s sort of the point. It was one event. Any top tier reporter can get Biden to talk on the record or go on camera with a phone call. None can do the same with Palin. She had a near total meltdown in a cream-puff interview with Katie Couric. &#039;Nuff said...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure Bit sure, I am a ranter grasping at straws. That explains why conservative columnists are in a near panic about Palin's performance (or lack thereof) with some even calling for her removal from the ticket.</p>
<p>As for Biden. excluding the press from one event, that's sort of the point. It was one event. Any top tier reporter can get Biden to talk on the record or go on camera with a phone call. None can do the same with Palin. She had a near total meltdown in a cream-puff interview with Katie Couric. 'Nuff said...</p>
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