Comments on: Untrained Soldier Killed in Iraq?

By: Darlene

Darlene — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:55:34 +0000

I think all of our military should have the proper training but I don't think it would have made a difference in this case. I'm truly sorry for this family's loss.
My son now in Iraq, graduated in June06 and went six months later to Bagdad, with no special training.
My husband left for Afganistan last month with 3 months of training prior to leaving and has been in for 17 years.
I would hope everyone should be trained and equipped before heading into a hot zone.

By: Chimeric Daydreams » 10 Things More Newsworthy than Don Imus

Chimeric Daydreams » 10 Things More Newsworthy than Don Imus — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:51:07 +0000

[...] A challenge to Time magazine’s report blaming a soldier’s death on lack of Army training. And another. And another. And another. [...]

By: 10 things more newsworthy than Don Imus - Big Big Forums

10 things more newsworthy than Don Imus - Big Big Forums — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:25:50 +0000

[...] And another. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/...killed_in_iraq/ __________________ Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ? [...]

By: Michelle Malkin

Michelle Malkin — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:32:43 +0000

10 things more newsworthy than Don Imus...

Via Lucianne: Border Patrol Agents Under Attack Judge rejects Padilla torture argument Iraqi police recruits killed by female jihadi who hid a bomb under her abaya Ohio soldier missing in Iraq for 3 years Where in the world is Ali-Reza......

By: John Ryan

John Ryan — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 00:10:54 +0000

The Republicans have never really supported the troops, they have supported Halliburton more then our own foot soldiers

By: Are You Proud Of Your American Leaders (And Their Senior Military Sycophants) ? « Hidden Unities

Fri, 06 Apr 2007 07:04:39 +0000

[...] The grand part about “milblogging” is that on many issues, you have milbloggers who assert from honorable service their side of the truth, and often commenters (or other bloggers) counter (in the comments)with honorable service experience which points out the flaws of that initial posting. The alleged”friendly fire” death of Pvt. Zeimer as well as the alleged lack of training (or full training) is disturbing on a number of debateable levels. The real question beyond the valid points on both side of the training debate is thus: “Why are we sending kids (or F******* New Guys?) off to Iraq without GUARANTEEING they get the required stateside training (um, COIN anyone? Against an intelligent, adaptive enemy, not “last throes” near-d0-wells) AND turnover time with more experienced soldiers in Iraq before they’re expected to reasonably contribute to their unit’s mission?” I wouldn’t dream of putting a sailor straight out of boot camp/A school onto the flight deck or in the engineering main spaces without doing at least the latter. There’s no way in hell soldiers going to Iraq should be getting short-changed in any way shape or fashion in the manner alleged in the above and other reports. (Oops, wait a minute, they have! Tens of thousands were still being trained to fight a conventional war by leaders who claimed for several years they weren’t fighting amid a civil war or even an insurgency!) [...]

By: James Joyner

James Joyner — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 03:06:14 +0000

The next step is to go to AIT Advanced Individual Training where you learn the basics of your job I'm sure Zeimer completed AIT before being assigned to a unit. If he was an infantryman, it would have been done at Benning. And the article made it clear that the unit did a month-long "rehearsal" training. It's not as if he was sent to a unit of raw recruits. He has fire time leader, squad leader, platoon sergeant, and platoon leader over him as well as the other soldiers in the unit. Several of them were likely Iraq War vets.

By: anne

anne — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 02:19:56 +0000

It amazes me that you could be so obtuse. I am a 22 year veteran of the army. NEVER have I heard of sending someone into combat directly from basic training.(not WWII, not Korea, not Vietnam) The next step is to go to AIT Advanced Individual Training where you learn the basics of your job. When he got to Ft. Stewart he had 2 weeks, do you know what the unit was doing? It wasn't training. They were getting ready to go overseas. He barely had time to get all his equipment, get his paperwork, will, insurance etc. done. If he was killed and how tragic his first day in country by one of the men in his unit, in all likelihood that person was at least as poorly trained. This is a debacle. This administration is breaking the military. The next war will be fought by Blackwater, Halliburton and conscripts from third world countries.
Don't give me the typical conservative response "they volunteered." They didn't volunteer to be untrained and unequipped. This makes me sick. I grieve for his parents.

By: Evil Progressive

Evil Progressive — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:09:50 +0000

You could at least show compassion for an 18-year-old kid who was killed. And for his family. That he may have been killed by friendly fire does not make him any less dead.

Tthe fact remains that the kid was fresh out of basic training and did not receive the extra weeks of training which are intended to replicate the urban warfare conditions in Iraq.

Had he not been killed almost immediately after his arrival in Iraq, he would have been at a disadvantage with better trained troops as well as a danger to them because of his lack of training.

Perhaps if he had received the proper training, he would not have been in a position to be killed by friendly fire, because he would have known better.

By: John Gillnitz

John Gillnitz — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:09:06 +0000

It doesn't sound like the problem was lack of training. The whole wall they were standing on blew up. The noobs didn't do anything wrong. If it was FF someone else made the mistake.

By: Cadillac Tight

Cadillac Tight — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 18:30:24 +0000

Fully Trained...

Dr. Joyner refutes the allegations of several lefty blogs (and a couple of newspapers) that Pvt. Matthew T. Zeimer was killed in Iraq due to insufficient training before mobilization. Please read the piece at Outside the Beltway. I'd only add......

By: James Joyner

James Joyner — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:30:22 +0000

the Army had strong suspicions (per their own reports) over a month ago that Zeimer died in a friendly-fire incident, but kept quiet about it and, just as in the Tillman case, told his family what may have been a deliberate, face-saving lie.

My understanding of the story is that the Army told the family what they thought was true, something caused a red flag to be raised, they investigated, and then told the family that they think it might have been friendly fire. That doesn't strike me as scandalous.

And I think the Army actually put the story out, not E&P.

By: Greyhawk

Greyhawk — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:00:16 +0000

Another small problem with the narrative: the 3ID's 1st Brigade wasn't part of "the surge".

By: MilBlogs

MilBlogs — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:39:43 +0000

Training...

FebruaryAt least 143 soldiers joined Fort Stewart's 1st Brigade too late to participate in a final combat exercise before their units deployed to Iraq. Last week, one of those soldiers - Pvt. Matthew T. Zeimer, 18 - was the first......

By: legion

legion — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:33:15 +0000

Kent,
It actually looks like the Army _had_ learned this lesson, but Bush's insistance on having a 'surge party' overrode that wisdom.

As for the timing of Ziemer's death, if he'd just been killed on his first patrol, that would have been explainable by tragically bad luck. But the fact that it was a friendly-fire incident makes me suspect that a larger breakdown in unit training & discipline may be to blame...