<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Uphill Battle to Develop Arabic Speakers in US</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:05:28 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126543</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 21:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126543</guid>
		<description>In support of John&#039;s point above, whatever the gripes with the Bush Administration, it takes a certain amount of time to achieve fluency in a language whatever the motivations, however hard the effort.  Although it seems like an eternity it&#039;s only five and a half years since there we gained an intensive interest in Arabic speakers.  That&#039;s not enough to achieve great fluency.  John&#039;s &#147;professional competence&#148;, perhaps, but as John pointed out the FSI&#039;s program is a fulltime job.

Further, the administrations leeway was limited.  They can&#039;t just offer whatever pay they want for the jobs they care to offer them to however they may want to.  There are pay schedules.  It&#039;s a bureaucracy.

To be contrarian I think it&#039;s worth pointing out that the opportunities for native speakers of English who achieve fluency in Arabic are pretty limited.  There are plenty of Arabic native speakers who speak English in competition with them.

And there aren&#039;t vast business opportunities.  The total GDP of the MENA is something like that of Spain&#039;s.

I wanted to learn Arabic because I like languages, find them fun to learn, and think that knowing another of the great languages of the world would contribute to my understanding of human beings.  I didn&#039;t think it would be a great credential.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In support of John's point above, whatever the gripes with the Bush Administration, it takes a certain amount of time to achieve fluency in a language whatever the motivations, however hard the effort.  Although it seems like an eternity it's only five and a half years since there we gained an intensive interest in Arabic speakers.  That's not enough to achieve great fluency.  John's &#8220;professional competence&#8221;, perhaps, but as John pointed out the FSI's program is a fulltime job.</p>
<p>Further, the administrations leeway was limited.  They can't just offer whatever pay they want for the jobs they care to offer them to however they may want to.  There are pay schedules.  It's a bureaucracy.</p>
<p>To be contrarian I think it's worth pointing out that the opportunities for native speakers of English who achieve fluency in Arabic are pretty limited.  There are plenty of Arabic native speakers who speak English in competition with them.</p>
<p>And there aren't vast business opportunities.  The total GDP of the MENA is something like that of Spain's.</p>
<p>I wanted to learn Arabic because I like languages, find them fun to learn, and think that knowing another of the great languages of the world would contribute to my understanding of human beings.  I didn't think it would be a great credential.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126542</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 21:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126542</guid>
		<description>Anjin-San: I know you&#039;ve your issues with the current administration, but I assure you that these problems pre-date Bush by about a quarter century at least.

These are structural problems within a bureaucracy, not with a policy. State, among the more unsympathetic agencies toward Bush policies by the way, has been trying to deal with the problem of long lead times for language training, rapidly changing demand, inconsistent ability to bring in new officers, a short-sighted Congress, and most of all tight budgets crossed with growing demand for new services for a very long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anjin-San: I know you've your issues with the current administration, but I assure you that these problems pre-date Bush by about a quarter century at least.</p>
<p>These are structural problems within a bureaucracy, not with a policy. State, among the more unsympathetic agencies toward Bush policies by the way, has been trying to deal with the problem of long lead times for language training, rapidly changing demand, inconsistent ability to bring in new officers, a short-sighted Congress, and most of all tight budgets crossed with growing demand for new services for a very long time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anjin-San</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126538</link>
		<dc:creator>Anjin-San</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 20:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126538</guid>
		<description>Years out from 9/11 and here is another critical security need that the Bush admin has left unaddressed. Well maybe somehow we are safer because of all the people who have been slaughtered in Iraq...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Years out from 9/11 and here is another critical security need that the Bush admin has left unaddressed. Well maybe somehow we are safer because of all the people who have been slaughtered in Iraq...</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126532</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 18:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126532</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The dismissal or rejection of gay interpretors is its own issue, though I note that this has not been an issue at State.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Indeed, I believe the state department at least mode overtures towards hiring some of the dismissed DIA translators.

The point is that throughout government, Arabic speakers are rare because they are undervalued or run out for silly reasons.

I&#039;m sure there are problems paying certain language speakers more than others.  On the other hand, real leadership would deal with the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The dismissal or rejection of gay interpretors is its own issue, though I note that this has not been an issue at State.</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed, I believe the state department at least mode overtures towards hiring some of the dismissed DIA translators.</p>
<p>The point is that throughout government, Arabic speakers are rare because they are undervalued or run out for silly reasons.</p>
<p>I'm sure there are problems paying certain language speakers more than others.  On the other hand, real leadership would deal with the issue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: legion</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126524</link>
		<dc:creator>legion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 18:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126524</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;These language bonuses only apply while the officer is abroad, in a position that requires the daily use of the language.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Unfortunately, that doesn&#039;t really encourage the attainment/maintenance of the skills outside of those positions and, I suspect, tends to &#039;career-track&#039; those that are skilled. The military (at least the AF) has recently started trying to evaluate &amp; offer incentives to people with certain language skills, regardless of position, which I think is a much better (tho, of course, more expensive) way to manage the skill pool...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>These language bonuses only apply while the officer is abroad, in a position that requires the daily use of the language.</p></blockquote>
<p>Unfortunately, that doesn't really encourage the attainment/maintenance of the skills outside of those positions and, I suspect, tends to 'career-track' those that are skilled. The military (at least the AF) has recently started trying to evaluate &amp; offer incentives to people with certain language skills, regardless of position, which I think is a much better (tho, of course, more expensive) way to manage the skill pool...</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126522</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 17:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126522</guid>
		<description>The dismissal or rejection of gay interpretors is its own issue, though I note that this has not been an issue at State. State, in fact, has very few translators/interpreters in Washington. They operate out of the Office of Language Services, a very separate entity from FSI---or Public Diplomacy, for that matter. Language Services does official translations of things like treaties and provides interpretors for the President, VP, SecState, and the like.

State does pay bonuses for competence in hard languages, at least for officers in &#039;language designated positions&#039;. These range from 5% of base salary for R-3/S-3 competence to 10% for R-4/S-4 competence. These language bonuses only apply while the officer is abroad, in a position that requires the daily use of the language.

Other federal agencies have slightly different rules. There&#039;s an informative USG website, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.makingthedifference.org/federalcareers/foreignlanguage.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Foreign Languages Jobs in the Federal Government&lt;/a&gt;, that&#039;s worth a look, though it&#039;s not detailed at all.

There are equity, structural, and bureaucratic problems in paying speakers of one language more than speakers of another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dismissal or rejection of gay interpretors is its own issue, though I note that this has not been an issue at State. State, in fact, has very few translators/interpreters in Washington. They operate out of the Office of Language Services, a very separate entity from FSI---or Public Diplomacy, for that matter. Language Services does official translations of things like treaties and provides interpretors for the President, VP, SecState, and the like.</p>
<p>State does pay bonuses for competence in hard languages, at least for officers in 'language designated positions'. These range from 5% of base salary for R-3/S-3 competence to 10% for R-4/S-4 competence. These language bonuses only apply while the officer is abroad, in a position that requires the daily use of the language.</p>
<p>Other federal agencies have slightly different rules. There's an informative USG website, <a href="http://www.makingthedifference.org/federalcareers/foreignlanguage.htm" rel="nofollow">Foreign Languages Jobs in the Federal Government</a>, that's worth a look, though it's not detailed at all.</p>
<p>There are equity, structural, and bureaucratic problems in paying speakers of one language more than speakers of another.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126521</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 17:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126521</guid>
		<description>If the government valued Arabic speakers, it would increase pay until we had enough of them.  It doesn&#039;t, so their value is clear.  And this is to say nothing of dismissing qualifed Arabic translators for having the gay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the government valued Arabic speakers, it would increase pay until we had enough of them.  It doesn't, so their value is clear.  And this is to say nothing of dismissing qualifed Arabic translators for having the gay.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126519</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 17:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126519</guid>
		<description>If we&#039;re going to get into arguments over the politics of education, well... There&#039;s simply no end to &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; discussion!

Individual Saudis, like Pr. Al-Waleed bin Talal, have given large donations to both Harvard and Georgetown for the expansion of their existing Middle East Studies programs. Those donations, $10 million each, did not come with strings attached by Al-Waleed. Whether the universities decide to tack with particular winds is another matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we're going to get into arguments over the politics of education, well... There's simply no end to <em>that</em> discussion!</p>
<p>Individual Saudis, like Pr. Al-Waleed bin Talal, have given large donations to both Harvard and Georgetown for the expansion of their existing Middle East Studies programs. Those donations, $10 million each, did not come with strings attached by Al-Waleed. Whether the universities decide to tack with particular winds is another matter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126518</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 17:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126518</guid>
		<description>We should be investing big gov&#039;t $$$ in Arabic departments, new and existing, around the country.

But we&#039;re not -- I suspect b/c we fear that LIBERAL PROFESSORS would infiltrate same.

So, IIRC, the biggest gov&#039;t investor in Arabic departments in the U.S. is ... Saudi Arabia.  TNR had an article years ago on how they fund Wahabist-friendly scholarship and squelch what they find unattractive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We should be investing big gov't $$$ in Arabic departments, new and existing, around the country.</p>
<p>But we're not -- I suspect b/c we fear that LIBERAL PROFESSORS would infiltrate same.</p>
<p>So, IIRC, the biggest gov't investor in Arabic departments in the U.S. is ... Saudi Arabia.  TNR had an article years ago on how they fund Wahabist-friendly scholarship and squelch what they find unattractive.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126510</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 16:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126510</guid>
		<description>I can sympathize. When I started university, I wanted to continue my study of Thai. Of course, the community college I first attended had absolutely not facility to do that. But even transferring to Georgetown, noted for its language programs, led to no joy. There was simply not enough demand to create a program and not enough money to send me for individualized study. So I ended up in a brilliant French program. Seven years after leaving GU, I only needed a six-week FSI refresher to reach an R-4/S-3 rating.

I can&#039;t speak to the motivations of the university for excluding you from its Arabic program, but I&#039;d definitely look at the financial aspects for a non-malicious reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can sympathize. When I started university, I wanted to continue my study of Thai. Of course, the community college I first attended had absolutely not facility to do that. But even transferring to Georgetown, noted for its language programs, led to no joy. There was simply not enough demand to create a program and not enough money to send me for individualized study. So I ended up in a brilliant French program. Seven years after leaving GU, I only needed a six-week FSI refresher to reach an R-4/S-3 rating.</p>
<p>I can't speak to the motivations of the university for excluding you from its Arabic program, but I'd definitely look at the financial aspects for a non-malicious reason.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tlaloc</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126509</link>
		<dc:creator>Tlaloc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 16:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126509</guid>
		<description>Interesting post, Mr. Burgess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, Mr. Burgess.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/comment-page-1/#comment-126505</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 16:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/uphill_battle_to_develop_arabic_speakers_in_us/#comment-126505</guid>
		<description>When I was in college (when dinosaurs ruled the earth), I petitioned to be allowed to take Arabic.  Its study was restricted to graduate students in linguistics.

I thought that, since I had already studied French, Latin, Greek, Russian, and Chinese and had gained some facility with all of them that I might be allowed take Arabic, too.  I was turned down.  I&#039;ve never known the reason&#8212;I suspect that they just wanted to keep it the province of linguistics graduates.

My point is that there are reasons other than difficulty for the small number of American Arabic speakers.  There&#039;s also a gatekeeper function in place and, in whatever numbers, it contributes as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was in college (when dinosaurs ruled the earth), I petitioned to be allowed to take Arabic.  Its study was restricted to graduate students in linguistics.</p>
<p>I thought that, since I had already studied French, Latin, Greek, Russian, and Chinese and had gained some facility with all of them that I might be allowed take Arabic, too.  I was turned down.  I've never known the reason&mdash;I suspect that they just wanted to keep it the province of linguistics graduates.</p>
<p>My point is that there are reasons other than difficulty for the small number of American Arabic speakers.  There's also a gatekeeper function in place and, in whatever numbers, it contributes as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
