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	<title>Comments on: Upping the Retirement Age</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/</link>
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		<title>By: Clint Lovell</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-49291</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Lovell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 02:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-49291</guid>
		<description>The problem with Social Security is that it cannot be fixed using the present means and methods we use to fund government.

The crux of the problem is the size of the looming program deficits.  We&#039;ve allowed them to get so large that is no longer possible for us to develop a realistic plan to pay them off and fund the rest of government services under the way we currently go about funding government.  The size of the deficits are now larger than the entire annual federal budget.  The federal government is already spending more money than it collects in revenues, so where would these funds come from?

Can&#039;t come from benefit cuts because the size of the benefit cuts needed to stabilize the finances of Social Security, ANY Congress that votes for these size cuts will be replaced by politicians who campaign on the promise of restoring the cuts.  In a democracy, everyone acts in their own self-interests first.  Benefit cuts are politically impossible.

That means you have to try and get the money by increasing taxes.  Whether you take them from us as individuals or you take them from businesses, it all comes out of the same pot - our economy.  Historically, anytime taxation has exceeded 19% of GDP, the economy has tipped into a recession and stayed there until tax rates were lowered below the 19% of GDP threshold.  Currently, income taxes are about 18.25% of GDP.  Every one point increase in the tax rates only raises about $120 billion.  To make the finances balance, we will have to be able to raise taxes to above 22% of GDP and sustain these rates for DECADES on end even though we have never been able to withstand tax rates above 19% for more than two years.  It&#039;s mathematically impossible for tax increases to work.

What do we know, then?

We know it&#039;s politically impossible to make benefit cuts work.

We know it&#039;s mathematically impossible to make tax increases work.

That means we have to face the fact the way we are doing things no longer works and we have to find a new way of doing things.

There are only two (2) ways a government operated as a democracy overlaid on top of a free-market economy can &quot;earn&quot; revenue: taxation or investment-income.

It&#039;s time to face the reality that we have to create a new dynamic that allows government to fund ongoing operations and pay off the deficits based upon an investment-income model.

Period, the end.

It&#039;s about the math, stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with Social Security is that it cannot be fixed using the present means and methods we use to fund government.</p>
<p>The crux of the problem is the size of the looming program deficits.  We've allowed them to get so large that is no longer possible for us to develop a realistic plan to pay them off and fund the rest of government services under the way we currently go about funding government.  The size of the deficits are now larger than the entire annual federal budget.  The federal government is already spending more money than it collects in revenues, so where would these funds come from?</p>
<p>Can't come from benefit cuts because the size of the benefit cuts needed to stabilize the finances of Social Security, ANY Congress that votes for these size cuts will be replaced by politicians who campaign on the promise of restoring the cuts.  In a democracy, everyone acts in their own self-interests first.  Benefit cuts are politically impossible.</p>
<p>That means you have to try and get the money by increasing taxes.  Whether you take them from us as individuals or you take them from businesses, it all comes out of the same pot - our economy.  Historically, anytime taxation has exceeded 19% of GDP, the economy has tipped into a recession and stayed there until tax rates were lowered below the 19% of GDP threshold.  Currently, income taxes are about 18.25% of GDP.  Every one point increase in the tax rates only raises about $120 billion.  To make the finances balance, we will have to be able to raise taxes to above 22% of GDP and sustain these rates for DECADES on end even though we have never been able to withstand tax rates above 19% for more than two years.  It's mathematically impossible for tax increases to work.</p>
<p>What do we know, then?</p>
<p>We know it's politically impossible to make benefit cuts work.</p>
<p>We know it's mathematically impossible to make tax increases work.</p>
<p>That means we have to face the fact the way we are doing things no longer works and we have to find a new way of doing things.</p>
<p>There are only two (2) ways a government operated as a democracy overlaid on top of a free-market economy can "earn" revenue: taxation or investment-income.</p>
<p>It's time to face the reality that we have to create a new dynamic that allows government to fund ongoing operations and pay off the deficits based upon an investment-income model.</p>
<p>Period, the end.</p>
<p>It's about the math, stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: PoliBlog:  Politics is the Master Science &#187; PoliBlog on MSNBC</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-49016</link>
		<dc:creator>PoliBlog:  Politics is the Master Science &#187; PoliBlog on MSNBC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 01:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-49016</guid>
		<description>[...]  from MSNBC in the producer&#8217;s post about what was going to be on the show (along with OTB):  Tony&#8217;s tabs. 	The funny thing is that all of the electrons I have spilled this week [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  from MSNBC in the producer&#8217;s post about what was going to be on the show (along with OTB):  Tony&#8217;s tabs. 	The funny thing is that all of the electrons I have spilled this week [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48994</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48994</guid>
		<description>Good try, Leopold, but that&#039;s been litigated already.  You&#039;re SOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good try, Leopold, but that's been litigated already.  You're SOL.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48974</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48974</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The moral of the story is, you cannot be an equal party to a contract with an entity that is also the judge of that contract.&lt;/i&gt;

Which makes me wonder whether anyone&#039;s taken the feds to court over the Incredible Creeping Retirement Age?  I&#039;m sure the courts would find some reason why it&#039;s not actually a &quot;contract&quot; at all, but it would be interesting to see the actual reasoning, in a cynical kind of way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The moral of the story is, you cannot be an equal party to a contract with an entity that is also the judge of that contract.</i></p>
<p>Which makes me wonder whether anyone's taken the feds to court over the Incredible Creeping Retirement Age?  I'm sure the courts would find some reason why it's not actually a "contract" at all, but it would be interesting to see the actual reasoning, in a cynical kind of way.</p>
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		<title>By: Radu</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48965</link>
		<dc:creator>Radu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48965</guid>
		<description>Contract?  Promise?
What planet are you people living on?
Corporations &quot;walk out&quot; on health benefits and pension &quot;contracts&quot; every day.  Why would the Federal Government act any differently?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contract?  Promise?<br />
What planet are you people living on?<br />
Corporations "walk out" on health benefits and pension "contracts" every day.  Why would the Federal Government act any differently?</p>
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		<title>By: GSR</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48957</link>
		<dc:creator>GSR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48957</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so glad that my wife and I are saving on our own (401K and IRA&#039;s)and will not &quot;depend&quot; on Uncle Sam at age 65 or 69.  However, I expect that the &quot;contract&quot; I made with the govt when I stated working 28 years ago, will be honored when my time comes...again, I&#039;m relieved that I won&#039;t be dependent on it, though.  Unfortunately, we are probably the minority - most hard working folks are dependent on SS for thier retirement and the feds should not be allowed to &quot;move the target&quot; on them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm so glad that my wife and I are saving on our own (401K and IRA's)and will not "depend" on Uncle Sam at age 65 or 69.  However, I expect that the "contract" I made with the govt when I stated working 28 years ago, will be honored when my time comes...again, I'm relieved that I won't be dependent on it, though.  Unfortunately, we are probably the minority - most hard working folks are dependent on SS for thier retirement and the feds should not be allowed to "move the target" on them.</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48955</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48955</guid>
		<description>Supposedly, we the people are equally the judges of that contract we know as the Constitution.

But I think that ship sailed back in 1803.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Supposedly, we the people are equally the judges of that contract we know as the Constitution.</p>
<p>But I think that ship sailed back in 1803.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48949</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48949</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The moral of the story is, you cannot be an equal party to a contract with an entity that is also the judge of that contract.&lt;/em&gt;

I was about to say, &quot;Hear, hear,&quot; but then it struck me:  If this is true, then we are no longer a self-governing people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The moral of the story is, you cannot be an equal party to a contract with an entity that is also the judge of that contract.</em></p>
<p>I was about to say, "Hear, hear," but then it struck me:  If this is true, then we are no longer a self-governing people.</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48948</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48948</guid>
		<description>The moral of the story is, you cannot be an equal party to a contract with an entity that is also the judge of that contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The moral of the story is, you cannot be an equal party to a contract with an entity that is also the judge of that contract.</p>
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		<title>By: Lurking Observer</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48947</link>
		<dc:creator>Lurking Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48947</guid>
		<description>Just out of curiosity: 

If the government can raiase the retirement age, what is to keep it from cutting the level of benefits?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just out of curiosity: </p>
<p>If the government can raiase the retirement age, what is to keep it from cutting the level of benefits?</p>
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		<title>By: Don Singleton</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48943</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Singleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48943</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Retirement Age 69&lt;/strong&gt;

This seems like a very good idea. People are living much longer, and if they increase this number it will make it harder for companies to force people to retire at 65.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Retirement Age 69</strong></p>
<p>This seems like a very good idea. People are living much longer, and if they increase this number it will make it harder for companies to force people to retire at 65.</p>
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		<title>By: Herb Ely</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48932</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb Ely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48932</guid>
		<description>Sixty five was chosen at the beginning of social security because the life expectency was - sixty five. Social security was called olda ange and survivor disability insurance (OASDI). As the life expetency increased, we gradually came to look at Old Age insurance as retirement insurance. Looking back, if we had indexed the age for eligibility for Social Security to life expectency, we would not now be funding years of retirement with and isurance program originally designed to protect against the disasters - old age and loss of the family breadwinner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sixty five was chosen at the beginning of social security because the life expectency was - sixty five. Social security was called olda ange and survivor disability insurance (OASDI). As the life expetency increased, we gradually came to look at Old Age insurance as retirement insurance. Looking back, if we had indexed the age for eligibility for Social Security to life expectency, we would not now be funding years of retirement with and isurance program originally designed to protect against the disasters - old age and loss of the family breadwinner.</p>
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		<title>By: KevinM</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48923</link>
		<dc:creator>KevinM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48923</guid>
		<description>If you are under 50, don&#039;t count on seeing a penny of it unless you are destitute.  Same with medicare.  We&#039;ve known this since the 80s when reagan took a stab at it, but all they did was kick the can down the road.

What&#039;s worse is those with defined-benefit pensions may think they are insulated from this, but the pensions are underfunded as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are under 50, don't count on seeing a penny of it unless you are destitute.  Same with medicare.  We've known this since the 80s when reagan took a stab at it, but all they did was kick the can down the road.</p>
<p>What's worse is those with defined-benefit pensions may think they are insulated from this, but the pensions are underfunded as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/upping_the_retirement_age/comment-page-1/#comment-48914</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 03:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10958#comment-48914</guid>
		<description>Pretty much.

Also I am not a huge fan of raising the retirement age.  Sure it helps keep social security sovent for a teeny bit longer, but there are some jobs that I don&#039;t know that I want a 69 year old man/woman doing without any options to retire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty much.</p>
<p>Also I am not a huge fan of raising the retirement age.  Sure it helps keep social security sovent for a teeny bit longer, but there are some jobs that I don't know that I want a 69 year old man/woman doing without any options to retire.</p>
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