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	<title>Comments on: U.S. Emergency Care Sytem at Breaking Point</title>
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		<title>By: Global Geopolitics News &#187; Western Europe - Family Fare A Brush With Magic, Courtesy of Magritte</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86662</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Geopolitics News &#187; Western Europe - Family Fare A Brush With Magic, Courtesy of Magritte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 06:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86662</guid>
		<description>[...] U.S. Emergency Care Sytem at Breaking PointOutside Beltway - A new study finds major problems with emergency room services in the United States . Half a million times a year about once every minute an ambulance carrying a sick patient is turned away from a full emergency room and sent to another one [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] U.S. Emergency Care Sytem at Breaking PointOutside Beltway - A new study finds major problems with emergency room services in the United States . Half a million times a year about once every minute an ambulance carrying a sick patient is turned away from a full emergency room and sent to another one [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Diggers Realm</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86659</link>
		<dc:creator>Diggers Realm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 05:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86659</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Illegal Aliens Push Emergency Rooms To Breaking Point...&lt;/strong&gt;

I&#039;ve covered the continued attack on our Emergency Care Facilities that illegal aliens have imposed, but now it is reaching the mainstream -- minus the real cause of their strain of course. You simply can&#039;t have this continued flow of......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Illegal Aliens Push Emergency Rooms To Breaking Point...</strong></p>
<p>I've covered the continued attack on our Emergency Care Facilities that illegal aliens have imposed, but now it is reaching the mainstream -- minus the real cause of their strain of course. You simply can't have this continued flow of......</p>
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		<title>By: Deb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86637</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 00:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86637</guid>
		<description>The thing about pregnancy is that it can be tremendously expensive, and there&#039;s no way of knowing in advance whether you&#039;re getting a $2000 pregnancy or a $200,000 pregnancy.  Seems like the sort of thing a body would insure to me.  Of course, that doesn&#039;t solve the problem of how best to go about this, or the public health issues that are inevitably raised around prenatal care, but that&#039;s beside my current point.  Contraceptive failure must also be dealt with, but again, beside my point.  The question of what, exactly, insurance is for is a good one, though, and in some ways I think really at the heart of the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing about pregnancy is that it can be tremendously expensive, and there's no way of knowing in advance whether you're getting a $2000 pregnancy or a $200,000 pregnancy.  Seems like the sort of thing a body would insure to me.  Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of how best to go about this, or the public health issues that are inevitably raised around prenatal care, but that's beside my current point.  Contraceptive failure must also be dealt with, but again, beside my point.  The question of what, exactly, insurance is for is a good one, though, and in some ways I think really at the heart of the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86630</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86630</guid>
		<description>Sorry, apparently do not understand how to do links.
http://tinyurl.com/6phzp for the tables I mentioned above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, apparently do not understand how to do links.<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/6phzp" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/6phzp</a> for the tables I mentioned above.</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86629</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86629</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, I had a minor injury in Paris, France, a couple of years ago (stupidly walked into a door at the D&#039;Orsay).  I went to the emergency room in an ambulance, accompanied by two attendants, was glued together and sent on my way in less than a half-hour, by a number of people who spoke better English than my lousy French, all for free.  That evening at dinner (delicious dinner) a Finnish woman told me that on her first night in Paris, before she started her new job with an EU entity, she was sick, and the hotel called a doctor, who made a house call.  For Free.

The per capita expenditure of the French in 2003 was a bit more than half of the US. tables at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.oecd.org/document/16/0,2340,en_2649_34631_2085200_1_1_1_1,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it's worth, I had a minor injury in Paris, France, a couple of years ago (stupidly walked into a door at the D'Orsay).  I went to the emergency room in an ambulance, accompanied by two attendants, was glued together and sent on my way in less than a half-hour, by a number of people who spoke better English than my lousy French, all for free.  That evening at dinner (delicious dinner) a Finnish woman told me that on her first night in Paris, before she started her new job with an EU entity, she was sick, and the hotel called a doctor, who made a house call.  For Free.</p>
<p>The per capita expenditure of the French in 2003 was a bit more than half of the US. tables at <a href="http://www.oecd.org/document/16/0,2340,en_2649_34631_2085200_1_1_1_1,00.html" rel="nofollow"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86599</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86599</guid>
		<description>Why is it that I don&#039;t put it past Steve to be Pro &quot;Socialized Medicine&quot;. 

Now I know he is a hard core LIBERAL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it that I don't put it past Steve to be Pro "Socialized Medicine". </p>
<p>Now I know he is a hard core LIBERAL.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86593</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86593</guid>
		<description>My wife works with veterinarians, who are (drum roll please) being signed up by the Homeland Security folks as &#039;first responders&#039; in case of a major catastrophic increase in local care needs (e.g. terrorist attack). It makes sense. Just as those with a runny nose would be thrown out of the ER (making more room) in the even of a terrorist attack or major flu epidemic, the addition of people who know how to set bones, stitch wounds, look at xrays, administer medicine, etc would be a big surge capacity boon in times of need (of course the tendency to check to see if the nose was wet might get to be annoying). To say that a system that is running near capacity is thus incapable of handling a disaster is at best not looking at everything.

Just for James, I wonder if the study controlled for whether a city was encouraging illegal immigration by not checking immigration status for rendering services (such as hospital care) or not. Just asking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife works with veterinarians, who are (drum roll please) being signed up by the Homeland Security folks as 'first responders' in case of a major catastrophic increase in local care needs (e.g. terrorist attack). It makes sense. Just as those with a runny nose would be thrown out of the ER (making more room) in the even of a terrorist attack or major flu epidemic, the addition of people who know how to set bones, stitch wounds, look at xrays, administer medicine, etc would be a big surge capacity boon in times of need (of course the tendency to check to see if the nose was wet might get to be annoying). To say that a system that is running near capacity is thus incapable of handling a disaster is at best not looking at everything.</p>
<p>Just for James, I wonder if the study controlled for whether a city was encouraging illegal immigration by not checking immigration status for rendering services (such as hospital care) or not. Just asking.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86582</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86582</guid>
		<description>The lowest cost way to provide a service is to limit the surge capacity because surge capacity is idle capacity.

Thus your telephone system is designed to handle Mothers Day. It overloads on 9/11 type events.

The cheapest way to provide for surge capacity is to  learn first aid. And keep some medical supplies available. Providing you are breaking no drug laws by keeping pain killers or other drugs around for those who weren&#039;t prescribed them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lowest cost way to provide a service is to limit the surge capacity because surge capacity is idle capacity.</p>
<p>Thus your telephone system is designed to handle Mothers Day. It overloads on 9/11 type events.</p>
<p>The cheapest way to provide for surge capacity is to  learn first aid. And keep some medical supplies available. Providing you are breaking no drug laws by keeping pain killers or other drugs around for those who weren't prescribed them.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Singleton</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86577</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Singleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86577</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Crisis Seen in Nation&#039;s ER Care...&lt;/strong&gt;

The solution is to have a clinic next to the ER, and triage the patients, sending those that are coming just because they don&#039;t have a Primary Care Physician over to the clinic. Also check IDs and if you find illegal aliens go ahead and treat them, i....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Crisis Seen in Nation's ER Care...</strong></p>
<p>The solution is to have a clinic next to the ER, and triage the patients, sending those that are coming just because they don't have a Primary Care Physician over to the clinic. Also check IDs and if you find illegal aliens go ahead and treat them, i....</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86569</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86569</guid>
		<description>Clearly there is a serious problem here. What we need is a lot more articles about how the Canadian &amp; French health care systems are on the verge of collapse. That should do the trick...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly there is a serious problem here. What we need is a lot more articles about how the Canadian &amp; French health care systems are on the verge of collapse. That should do the trick...</p>
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		<title>By: herbavida</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86561</link>
		<dc:creator>herbavida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86561</guid>
		<description>&quot;Still, Steveâ��s point that including those things substantially increases the costs of insuranceâ��and, thus, serves as a barrier to entry for those at the bottomâ��is certainly true. It may be that there should be policies that cheaper and cover only catastrophic illnesses and others that are more expensive/inclusive.&quot;

Wrong, routine care has been proven again and again to LOWER overall healthcare costs. Check-ups and routine health care is MUCH cheaper than expensive procedures and treatments of serious diseases/conditions/complications that could have been avoided by routine health care.

http://hffo.cuna.org/story.html?doc_id=982&amp;sub_id=12433</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Still, Steveâ��s point that including those things substantially increases the costs of insuranceâ��and, thus, serves as a barrier to entry for those at the bottomâ��is certainly true. It may be that there should be policies that cheaper and cover only catastrophic illnesses and others that are more expensive/inclusive."</p>
<p>Wrong, routine care has been proven again and again to LOWER overall healthcare costs. Check-ups and routine health care is MUCH cheaper than expensive procedures and treatments of serious diseases/conditions/complications that could have been avoided by routine health care.</p>
<p><a href="http://hffo.cuna.org/story.html?doc_id=982&amp;sub_id=12433" rel="nofollow">http://hffo.cuna.org/story.html?doc_id=982&amp;sub_id=12433</a></p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86555</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86555</guid>
		<description>herbavida: 

I don&#039;t contend that care for pregnancy isn&#039;t beneficial.  Indeed, so is putting servicable tires on a car.  The latter, however, is not covered by &quot;insurance&quot; because it&#039;s considered a routine expense and not a &quot;risk.&quot;

My preference is to cover pregnancy and even routine checkups. Doing so might even hold down lifetime costs. 

Still, Steve&#039;s point that including those things substantially increases the costs of insurance--and, thus, serves as a barrier to entry for those at the bottom--is certainly true.  It may be that there should be policies that cheaper and cover only catastrophic illnesses and others that are more expensive/inclusive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>herbavida: </p>
<p>I don't contend that care for pregnancy isn't beneficial.  Indeed, so is putting servicable tires on a car.  The latter, however, is not covered by "insurance" because it's considered a routine expense and not a "risk."</p>
<p>My preference is to cover pregnancy and even routine checkups. Doing so might even hold down lifetime costs. </p>
<p>Still, Steve's point that including those things substantially increases the costs of insurance--and, thus, serves as a barrier to entry for those at the bottom--is certainly true.  It may be that there should be policies that cheaper and cover only catastrophic illnesses and others that are more expensive/inclusive.</p>
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		<title>By: herbavida</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86552</link>
		<dc:creator>herbavida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86552</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll repost my previous post, since it seems to have disappeared:

James,

I think Steve&#039;s point is quite clear--he views pregnancy as &quot;elective&quot; or &quot;avoidable&quot; and should therefore not be covered by insurance. Again, many heart attacks are &quot;avoidable&quot;--should they be covered?  

&lt;strong&gt;[*********] &lt;/strong&gt; Pregnancy is a &quot;routine life event&quot; but it also carries health risks to both mother and child and MUST be covered by health insurance. Denying health insurance to pregnant women results in unnecessary (and avoidable) illness and death. It is that simple. BTW --are you pro-life?

&lt;strong&gt;[*********] &lt;/strong&gt; Access to comprehensive health insurance (unlike car insurance or homeowners insurance) has life and death consequences. Health insurance does and SHOULD cover the &quot;maintenance&quot; of the human body, and not just emergencies. One surely &quot;chooses&quot; to have a yearly check-up, but those yearly check ups help avoid emergent health problems that are MUCH more expensive to fix after the person gets sick.

Also, health insurance does not cover &quot;everything&quot;. Usually it does not cover elective procedures (like plastic surgery ) as I mentioned before. You are building a straw man when you say there is an &quot;expectation that insurance cover everything&quot;. There is no such expectation. People are fully aware that they cannot get breast implants if they are on medicare. They do and should expect to receive coverage for medication and treatment that enable them to AVOID expensive acute illnesses, complications, injuries or death. Including coverage for pregnancy.
&lt;strong&gt;[*********] &lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;em&gt;
[Editor&#039;s note:  Abusive comments deleted with attempts at rational discussion remaining as an illustration.]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll repost my previous post, since it seems to have disappeared:</p>
<p>James,</p>
<p>I think Steve's point is quite clear--he views pregnancy as "elective" or "avoidable" and should therefore not be covered by insurance. Again, many heart attacks are "avoidable"--should they be covered?  </p>
<p><strong>[*********] </strong> Pregnancy is a "routine life event" but it also carries health risks to both mother and child and MUST be covered by health insurance. Denying health insurance to pregnant women results in unnecessary (and avoidable) illness and death. It is that simple. BTW --are you pro-life?</p>
<p><strong>[*********] </strong> Access to comprehensive health insurance (unlike car insurance or homeowners insurance) has life and death consequences. Health insurance does and SHOULD cover the "maintenance" of the human body, and not just emergencies. One surely "chooses" to have a yearly check-up, but those yearly check ups help avoid emergent health problems that are MUCH more expensive to fix after the person gets sick.</p>
<p>Also, health insurance does not cover "everything". Usually it does not cover elective procedures (like plastic surgery ) as I mentioned before. You are building a straw man when you say there is an "expectation that insurance cover everything". There is no such expectation. People are fully aware that they cannot get breast implants if they are on medicare. They do and should expect to receive coverage for medication and treatment that enable them to AVOID expensive acute illnesses, complications, injuries or death. Including coverage for pregnancy.<br />
<strong>[*********] </strong><br />
<em><br />
[Editor's note:  Abusive comments deleted with attempts at rational discussion remaining as an illustration.]</em></p>
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		<title>By: herbavida</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86544</link>
		<dc:creator>herbavida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86544</guid>
		<description>I see you axed my post. [truncated]

&lt;em&gt;Editor&#039;s note: Learn to have rational, adult conversations.  If you direct abusive comments toward writers on the blog, they&#039;ll be deleted.  Do it often enough, you&#039;ll be banned from the site.  Dissenting views are welcome; insults are not.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see you axed my post. [truncated]</p>
<p><em>Editor's note: Learn to have rational, adult conversations.  If you direct abusive comments toward writers on the blog, they'll be deleted.  Do it often enough, you'll be banned from the site.  Dissenting views are welcome; insults are not.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Steven Plunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/comment-page-1/#comment-86530</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Plunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/us_emergency_care_sytem_at_breaking_point/#comment-86530</guid>
		<description>My local hospital recently built a deluxe care wing.  A beautiful building with a great deal of open space it looks like a grand hotel.  It even has special butler service (their word, not mine)for meals and pampering.  I guess since the needs of the low income patients and emergency patients were met they could build such a facility, right?  No, not really, they built it because a board of directors wanted to attach their names to something large and pretty.  Rather than make solid decisions about helping people many boards are just egotistic.

Emergency room upgrades could easily be accomplished with a shift in priorities.  I doubt that shift will take place.  The glory does not rest in effective health care delivery but in impressive buildings.

Also keep in mind that an advocacy group agitating for more tax dollars produced this &quot;report&quot;.  If we believe every document such as this we would have to tax ourselves to death.  It&#039;s economics, scarce resources and how to allocate them.

I have yet to see hospitals push for immediate care centers that can stitch up a cut or treat a sinus infection without using the tremendous resources of a typical emergency room.  It&#039;s a simple cost effective solution but administrators and boards are not interested.

I find it funny the health care cabal has screwed it up (according to the report anyway) but points to the taxpayers for $$$ to fix it.  Physicians heal thy selves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My local hospital recently built a deluxe care wing.  A beautiful building with a great deal of open space it looks like a grand hotel.  It even has special butler service (their word, not mine)for meals and pampering.  I guess since the needs of the low income patients and emergency patients were met they could build such a facility, right?  No, not really, they built it because a board of directors wanted to attach their names to something large and pretty.  Rather than make solid decisions about helping people many boards are just egotistic.</p>
<p>Emergency room upgrades could easily be accomplished with a shift in priorities.  I doubt that shift will take place.  The glory does not rest in effective health care delivery but in impressive buildings.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind that an advocacy group agitating for more tax dollars produced this "report".  If we believe every document such as this we would have to tax ourselves to death.  It's economics, scarce resources and how to allocate them.</p>
<p>I have yet to see hospitals push for immediate care centers that can stitch up a cut or treat a sinus infection without using the tremendous resources of a typical emergency room.  It's a simple cost effective solution but administrators and boards are not interested.</p>
<p>I find it funny the health care cabal has screwed it up (according to the report anyway) but points to the taxpayers for $$$ to fix it.  Physicians heal thy selves.</p>
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