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	<title>Comments on: U.S. Senate Narrowly Bans Torture by CIA (Updated)</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
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		<title>By: Steve Plunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281141</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Plunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281141</guid>
		<description>At last instead of congressional grandstanding on this issue we have some leadership.  If they opposed these techniques they should have passed this bill years ago instead of hogging the TV cameras complaining.

With clear definitions in place those in charge of interrogation will have the guidance needed to do their jobs.  No more guessing or relying on competing legal theories.

I hope the President signs this bill.  It&#039;s not that I necessarily agree with it but it serves the country well to know what the rules are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At last instead of congressional grandstanding on this issue we have some leadership.  If they opposed these techniques they should have passed this bill years ago instead of hogging the TV cameras complaining.</p>
<p>With clear definitions in place those in charge of interrogation will have the guidance needed to do their jobs.  No more guessing or relying on competing legal theories.</p>
<p>I hope the President signs this bill.  It's not that I necessarily agree with it but it serves the country well to know what the rules are.</p>
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		<title>By: Grewgills</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281103</link>
		<dc:creator>Grewgills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281103</guid>
		<description>So, would you say McCain was for prohibiting torture before he was against it?

It&#039;s not so fun when the flip flop is on the other foot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, would you say McCain was for prohibiting torture before he was against it?</p>
<p>It's not so fun when the flip flop is on the other foot.</p>
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		<title>By: Hal</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281073</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281073</guid>
		<description>See?  The Republicans don&#039;t have a pro torture base that needs to be appeased.  This simply comes down to matters of arcane procedure that they’re hard to unravel.

As I said James, you&#039;re going to get a &lt;em&gt;lot&lt;/em&gt; of practice between now and Nov 5.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See?  The Republicans don't have a pro torture base that needs to be appeased.  This simply comes down to matters of arcane procedure that they&rsquo;re hard to unravel.</p>
<p>As I said James, you're going to get a <em>lot</em> of practice between now and Nov 5.</p>
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		<title>By: DL</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281072</link>
		<dc:creator>DL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281072</guid>
		<description>One does have to wonder how much sweet talking those captured victims tried before their heads were cut out off.

Real torture is watching liberals(in either party) slowly destroy this  country with their nihilistic secular religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One does have to wonder how much sweet talking those captured victims tried before their heads were cut out off.</p>
<p>Real torture is watching liberals(in either party) slowly destroy this  country with their nihilistic secular religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281068</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281068</guid>
		<description>davod-

Getting rid of the CIA might not be a bad idea.  You should check out &lt;i&gt;Legacy of Ashes&lt;/i&gt; by Tim Weiner.

Also, the State Department&#039;s intelligence service was the only one that was correct about Iraq not possessing WMD and about Hussein not having any significant links to al-Qaeda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>davod-</p>
<p>Getting rid of the CIA might not be a bad idea.  You should check out <i>Legacy of Ashes</i> by Tim Weiner.</p>
<p>Also, the State Department's intelligence service was the only one that was correct about Iraq not possessing WMD and about Hussein not having any significant links to al-Qaeda.</p>
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		<title>By: Hal</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281064</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281064</guid>
		<description>See?  I rest my case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See?  I rest my case.</p>
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		<title>By: davod</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281056</link>
		<dc:creator>davod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281056</guid>
		<description>Next, the CIA will be dissolved in favor of a much expanded State Department.

The diplomats will use their skills to sweet talk all they come in contact with so there will be no possible chance that anyone would want to attack the US. Kumbaya.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Next, the CIA will be dissolved in favor of a much expanded State Department.</p>
<p>The diplomats will use their skills to sweet talk all they come in contact with so there will be no possible chance that anyone would want to attack the US. Kumbaya.</p>
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		<title>By: Hal</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281051</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281051</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;It would be odd, to say the least, to suddenly switch positions now that he&#039;s got the nomination wrapped up and it now appeals to the swing voters he&#039;ll need in November.&lt;/em&gt;

Keep spinning, James.  As &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_02/013122.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kevin Drum points out&lt;/a&gt;, McCain clearly knows what he has to do to shore up the rather angry and unconvinced base of the Republican party.  I give you full marks for your ability to ignore the obvious, but regardless of whether he technically has enough votes to &quot;wrap up&quot; the nomination, you&#039;d have to be deaf and blind to not notice the rather large number of discontents within the Republican ranks.

And this statement of yours, &lt;em&gt;it now appeals to the swing voters he&#039;ll need in November.&lt;/em&gt;  ???  Torture appeals to the swing voters? &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/06/waterboard.poll/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;In what reality do you live in?&lt;/a&gt;  If you really believe that by weaseling on torture McCain is appealing to swing voters, I guess you mean the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2007/11/dialing_the_republicans.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;swing voters within his own party.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;I attended Frank Luntz&#039;s dial group of 30 undecided — or sort of undecided — Republicans in St. Petersburg, Florida, last night...and it was a fairly astonishing evening. Now, for the uninitiated: dials are little hand-held machines that enable a focus group member to register instantaneous approval or disapproval as the watch a candidate on TV.

....&lt;strong&gt;When John McCain started talking about torture — specifically, about waterboarding — the dials plummeted again....Down to the low 20s, which, given the natural averaging of a focus group, is about as low as you can go.&lt;/strong&gt; Afterwards, Luntz asked the group why they seemed to be in favor of torture. &quot;I don&#039;t have any problem pouring water on the face of a man who killed 3000 Americans on 9/11,&quot; said John Shevlin, a retired federal law enforcement officer. &lt;strong&gt;The group applauded&lt;/strong&gt;, appallingly.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;As Kevin points out, McCain needs those pro-torture votes in the Republican base that are rather pissed off with him.  He knows which side of his bread is buttered...

Still, keep the spin up James.  Practice makes perfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>It would be odd, to say the least, to suddenly switch positions now that he's got the nomination wrapped up and it now appeals to the swing voters he'll need in November.</em></p>
<p>Keep spinning, James.  As <a href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_02/013122.php" rel="nofollow">Kevin Drum points out</a>, McCain clearly knows what he has to do to shore up the rather angry and unconvinced base of the Republican party.  I give you full marks for your ability to ignore the obvious, but regardless of whether he technically has enough votes to "wrap up" the nomination, you'd have to be deaf and blind to not notice the rather large number of discontents within the Republican ranks.</p>
<p>And this statement of yours, <em>it now appeals to the swing voters he'll need in November.</em>  ???  Torture appeals to the swing voters? <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/06/waterboard.poll/index.html" rel="nofollow">In what reality do you live in?</a>  If you really believe that by weaseling on torture McCain is appealing to swing voters, I guess you mean the <a href="http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2007/11/dialing_the_republicans.html" rel="nofollow"><em>swing voters within his own party.</em></a><br />
<blockquote><em>I attended Frank Luntz's dial group of 30 undecided — or sort of undecided — Republicans in St. Petersburg, Florida, last night...and it was a fairly astonishing evening. Now, for the uninitiated: dials are little hand-held machines that enable a focus group member to register instantaneous approval or disapproval as the watch a candidate on TV.</p>
<p>....<strong>When John McCain started talking about torture — specifically, about waterboarding — the dials plummeted again....Down to the low 20s, which, given the natural averaging of a focus group, is about as low as you can go.</strong> Afterwards, Luntz asked the group why they seemed to be in favor of torture. "I don't have any problem pouring water on the face of a man who killed 3000 Americans on 9/11," said John Shevlin, a retired federal law enforcement officer. <strong>The group applauded</strong>, appallingly.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>As Kevin points out, McCain needs those pro-torture votes in the Republican base that are rather pissed off with him.  He knows which side of his bread is buttered...</p>
<p>Still, keep the spin up James.  Practice makes perfect.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281045</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281045</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I figure you&#039;re gonna need to be doing a lot of this &quot;explaining&quot; by the time Nov 5 rolls around.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

McCain has vocally and consistently worked to limit torture, even though it has been damaging to him politically.  It would be odd, to say the least, to suddenly switch positions now that he&#039;s got the nomination wrapped up and it now appeals to the swing voters he&#039;ll need in November.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I figure you're gonna need to be doing a lot of this "explaining" by the time Nov 5 rolls around.</p></blockquote>
<p>McCain has vocally and consistently worked to limit torture, even though it has been damaging to him politically.  It would be odd, to say the least, to suddenly switch positions now that he's got the nomination wrapped up and it now appeals to the swing voters he'll need in November.</p>
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		<title>By: Hal</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281040</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281040</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt; But enough congressional votes wind up coming down to matters of arcane procedure that they’re hard to unravel.&lt;/em&gt;

Keep hope alive, James.  Keep hope alive.

I figure you&#039;re gonna need to be doing a lot of this &quot;explaining&quot; by the time Nov 5 rolls around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em> But enough congressional votes wind up coming down to matters of arcane procedure that they&rsquo;re hard to unravel.</em></p>
<p>Keep hope alive, James.  Keep hope alive.</p>
<p>I figure you're gonna need to be doing a lot of this "explaining" by the time Nov 5 rolls around.</p>
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		<title>By: Tano</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281027</link>
		<dc:creator>Tano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281027</guid>
		<description>McCain will never live this down.
Well, at least not till Nov. 5.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McCain will never live this down.<br />
Well, at least not till Nov. 5.</p>
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		<title>By: DL</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-281023</link>
		<dc:creator>DL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-281023</guid>
		<description>One has to admire those who value human dignity enough to consider all of our actions against enemies -to do otherwise is to invite becoming like the evilest despots of history. But,it would have so much more validity if these weren&#039;t so many of the same people who refuse to provide adequate defense for the innocent humans of our nation, and also many of the same people who don&#039;t value the dignity of human life in their eagerness to abort and experiment on the most innocent unborn humans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One has to admire those who value human dignity enough to consider all of our actions against enemies -to do otherwise is to invite becoming like the evilest despots of history. But,it would have so much more validity if these weren't so many of the same people who refuse to provide adequate defense for the innocent humans of our nation, and also many of the same people who don't value the dignity of human life in their eagerness to abort and experiment on the most innocent unborn humans.</p>
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		<title>By: Maniakes</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-280926</link>
		<dc:creator>Maniakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-280926</guid>
		<description>Maybe there was something in the other 326 sections of the bill that McCain didn&#039;t like?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe there was something in the other 326 sections of the bill that McCain didn't like?</p>
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		<title>By: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/comment-page-1/#comment-280884</link>
		<dc:creator>Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 04:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/us_senate_narrowly_bans_torture_by_cia/#comment-280884</guid>
		<description>What, Alex, you think the Geneva convention should apply to terrorists who plan to blow you up?  First waterboarding is not torture in the classical sense.  Look up torture in the dictionary.  Liberals define words to meet their needs just as they redefine history to thier likeing.  Bush will veto the bill which will be sustained by the minority in the Senate.   Why would anyone limit what the President can do to defend this country?  Anyone worth the oath of office would insist in timely intelligence gathered from those who would harm us in a timely manner.  If they knew their was an nuclear device in the city you and your children live in, I wonder how you would feel about this subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, Alex, you think the Geneva convention should apply to terrorists who plan to blow you up?  First waterboarding is not torture in the classical sense.  Look up torture in the dictionary.  Liberals define words to meet their needs just as they redefine history to thier likeing.  Bush will veto the bill which will be sustained by the minority in the Senate.   Why would anyone limit what the President can do to defend this country?  Anyone worth the oath of office would insist in timely intelligence gathered from those who would harm us in a timely manner.  If they knew their was an nuclear device in the city you and your children live in, I wonder how you would feel about this subject.</p>
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