Comments on: Venezuela Threatens to Sell F-16s to Rogue States

By: legion

legion — Thu, 18 May 2006 14:44:38 +0000

Well, Zelsdorf, at least you're consistent.
If you actually read any of this discussion thread, you might have realized I was making a joke about my own mistake earlier in typing Iraq when, as has since been noted, it was Iran that got our F-14s.

Try switching to decaf.

By: CC

CC — Thu, 18 May 2006 12:01:50 +0000

Geez, maybe Reagan was right about fighting the Lefties in South America after all....

By: AHS ILERI

AHS ILERI — Thu, 18 May 2006 06:51:00 +0000

Pls note that Iraq did not have a "shah" at any stage in its history, most probably alluding to Iran here... I'm quite certain that the mentioned a/c entered the inventory of Iran at the time.

By: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III

Zelsdorf Ragshaft III — Thu, 18 May 2006 00:32:39 +0000

Legion, go figure. You blame Bush. Idiot, you blame Bush for your stupidity. Kenny, is there any communist leader, dictator, that you do not support? Some question the legitimacy of that free election you speak of. Just because Jimma Carter was there doesn't make it real. Anjin, not. I am glad you make it clear that you support Fidel Castro. How many Cubans try to escape the hard life in the USA to travel by leaky boat the 90 miles to Cuba? What is wrong with you people?

By: legion

legion — Wed, 17 May 2006 22:10:14 +0000

D'oh! Iraq != Iran.
I blame Bush.

By: Scott_T

Scott_T — Wed, 17 May 2006 22:04:36 +0000

They might be able to be carried inside an AN-125 super-cargo plane, instead of being taken apart (well wings fiddled with probably).

But the number of flights to get 21 out would be astronomically expensive probably.

By: kenny

kenny — Wed, 17 May 2006 21:34:14 +0000

"Well, we could treat it as an act of war "

I think supporting a coup against a democratically elected leader counts as an act of war anyway.

Or the US could just claim that Chavez is developing WMDS.....

"I would not at all be surprised to see those planes suddenly explode from mysterious, plausibly deniable causes. It happens."

Indeed, and you could also end up with Eagle Claw....

By: Jason Coleman

Jason Coleman — Wed, 17 May 2006 20:43:04 +0000

Just a note on those F-14's that Iran had at the fall of the Shah. When Khomeini's followers took control of the embassy and staff therein hostage, there were still alot of Grumman support personnel in Iran servicing the F-14's and training Iranian pilots. Khomeini made a deal allowing the Grumman engineers and trainers to get out, and they did. Ironically, the day after the Grumman engineers left, the Iranians found that although the planes would still fly, their radars wouldn't work, their weapons systems wouldn't "talk" with the flight computers and everything on the jets was essentially useless as weapons platform. WAY TO GO GRUMMAN! The Venutians don't have any way to deliver the F-16's to Iran via air, no in-flight refueling capabilities to speak of and no way to jump either Atlantic or Pacific. That means they have to be shipped. Since they can't be shipped without taking them apart the likely-hood that they could get them working on the other end is virtually nil. What other commenters have mentioned about spare parts and weapons is true, but the near fact that once they get over, they'll never get them off the ground again seems to trump the sale to Iran. They could "possibly" with assistance from other nations, make the hop over to Cuba, which would be some cause for concern. However, given that these are 1983 vintage F-16's that were "monkey-man" versions to begin with and they haven't been upgraded since delivery, I'd venture to say that if push came to shove, our 3rd and 4th tier ANG planes could make sort work of them. Not to mention that just a pair of F-15's out of Florida could splash every F-16 that Cuba might be able to put in the air within minutes of take-off doesn't seem to make this much of a threat other than in the eyes of our media. That's not saying too much, especially considering the MSM thinks we give out "Purple Stars". --Jason

By: Ugh

Ugh — Wed, 17 May 2006 19:49:12 +0000

Well, we could treat it as an act of war and destroy the planes for one thing.

How far we have fallen.

By: Scott_T

Scott_T — Wed, 17 May 2006 19:21:22 +0000

http://www.strategypage.com had an article today about it.

Yes Chavez wants to sell them to Iran, no they won't have spare parts (so they'll have to cannibilize some to fix others).

Missiles for them are probably over 8 yrs old, as USA hasn't sold parts to Chavez since he was elected (so shelf-life for older sidewiders, anyone?)

Training, Iranians seem to only go on one mission, so who needs training?

They are 20+ years old, Block A versions.

If Chavez gets $$s from the Iranians he can pay the Russians to buy Mig's.

By: Boyd

Boyd — Wed, 17 May 2006 19:17:15 +0000

legion: I'm pretty sure it was Iran that we sold the F-14s to, back when the Shah was in power.

By: spacemonkey

spacemonkey — Wed, 17 May 2006 19:05:05 +0000

If Iran gets them, they will paint them up in USAF markings and blow them up so it looks like they shot our planes down.

By: legion

legion — Wed, 17 May 2006 18:47:29 +0000

Yes, I seem to recall us selling some F-14s to Iraq many years ago... Strangely tho - we never got around to selling them the Phoenix missile that made F-14s so deadly in beyond-visual-range engagements... Not to mention the lack of spare parts for everything else on the plane :-)

By: RA

RA — Wed, 17 May 2006 18:18:34 +0000

It doesn't matter. Neither Chavez nor the mulas in Iran have the pilots to fly them effectively, the maintenance personel to keep them running, nor the spare parts need to keep them running.

As long as we don't provide them with the above, those fighters might as well be very expensive paper weights.

By: James Joyner

James Joyner — Wed, 17 May 2006 18:09:54 +0000

Herb: Good point