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	<title>Comments on: Wal-Mart Ruining Organics for the Elites?</title>
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		<title>By: Deanna</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-86122</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-86122</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t eat &quot;Organic Meat&quot; if you paid me to. It is full of parasites because they cannot deworm the animals. Also Dairy cows cannot be dewormed. This smacks of animal cruelty to say the least. There are no proven natural methods of deworming (been there, done that). Since you seem to be well versed on organics, (not confused with &quot;natural&quot; that is sold at Whole Foods), Why would the USDA allow vaccines but not proper deworming? I suspect that livestock owners are doing it and saying they are not. Otherwise the animals would be really sick looking. But I guess if you don&#039;t see them until they are in the meat case......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn't eat "Organic Meat" if you paid me to. It is full of parasites because they cannot deworm the animals. Also Dairy cows cannot be dewormed. This smacks of animal cruelty to say the least. There are no proven natural methods of deworming (been there, done that). Since you seem to be well versed on organics, (not confused with "natural" that is sold at Whole Foods), Why would the USDA allow vaccines but not proper deworming? I suspect that livestock owners are doing it and saying they are not. Otherwise the animals would be really sick looking. But I guess if you don't see them until they are in the meat case......</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-86102</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-86102</guid>
		<description>Organic is a marketing gimmick for wal-mart. I have been in the organic sustainability business for many years and we are now at the beginning of two distinctly different organic standards. Wal-mart organics and real organics. 

True quality organics cannot be factory farmed due to the nature and real cost of what it actually takes to succeed with this type of farming.  I expect some of wal-marts so called organics to be found from organically grown farms using GMO (genetically modified organisms) crops or farms that were not organic at all.

 Monsanto and Dow have a big presence in South America and other agriculture spots and will likely attempt to manipulate agencies certification wording to get GMO based crops, grown organically labeled as organic.  This is only one piece of wal-marts attempt to capitalize on sustainability and organics. You can be certain they will use every gimmick possible for market share regardless of an integrity to true organic farming that they can never own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Organic is a marketing gimmick for wal-mart. I have been in the organic sustainability business for many years and we are now at the beginning of two distinctly different organic standards. Wal-mart organics and real organics. </p>
<p>True quality organics cannot be factory farmed due to the nature and real cost of what it actually takes to succeed with this type of farming.  I expect some of wal-marts so called organics to be found from organically grown farms using GMO (genetically modified organisms) crops or farms that were not organic at all.</p>
<p> Monsanto and Dow have a big presence in South America and other agriculture spots and will likely attempt to manipulate agencies certification wording to get GMO based crops, grown organically labeled as organic.  This is only one piece of wal-marts attempt to capitalize on sustainability and organics. You can be certain they will use every gimmick possible for market share regardless of an integrity to true organic farming that they can never own.</p>
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		<title>By: Bodark.com</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85455</link>
		<dc:creator>Bodark.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85455</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Walmartization of Organic...&lt;/strong&gt;

Not too long ago, Walmart predictably announced that theyd start carrying organic food. A few days ago, the NY Times ran an interesting piece by Michael Pollan, journalism professor at UC-Berkeley, in which he discussed some of the broader implicatio...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Walmartization of Organic...</strong></p>
<p>Not too long ago, Walmart predictably announced that theyd start carrying organic food. A few days ago, the NY Times ran an interesting piece by Michael Pollan, journalism professor at UC-Berkeley, in which he discussed some of the broader implicatio...</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85240</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 11:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85240</guid>
		<description>Richard: 

Good point on Whole Foods as a shopping experience. I think the same is true of Wegmans, which people simply rave about even though it is mostly an overpriced Safeway.

I buy a lot of stuff at Costco, including a lot of wine, bottled teas and waters, most of my frozen food, and various other things.  I&#039;m not really a seafood person but I&#039;ll mention it to the wife next time we&#039;re there, as she&#039;s a big fan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard: </p>
<p>Good point on Whole Foods as a shopping experience. I think the same is true of Wegmans, which people simply rave about even though it is mostly an overpriced Safeway.</p>
<p>I buy a lot of stuff at Costco, including a lot of wine, bottled teas and waters, most of my frozen food, and various other things.  I'm not really a seafood person but I'll mention it to the wife next time we're there, as she's a big fan.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85230</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 04:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85230</guid>
		<description>A little late to the table here, but this author is talking about stuff that Wall Street flailed about, then dismissed 4 months ago. Both Whole Food and United Grocers (major organic distributor) dropped when Wal-Mart made the announcement - at least 4 months ago. Several weeks later, as discussed in the latest Whole Foods conference call, the market realized at organic and places such as Whole Foods are all about the shopping experience, and feeling good about shopping, not the simple &quot;it is organic&quot; stuff. This is in the realm of Virginia Postel, and the &quot;Substance of Style.&quot; Meanwile, I think Walmart&#039;s single store (Dallas area) experiment in the high end will fail because it does not have the cachet.

The article was also very US-centric is that it avoided all discussion of the European market for organic goods, which is greater than the USA (see German demand for example). For this reason alone, it is very suspect. This article is filler.

Meanwhile (and disclaimer) as a long-term WFMI shareholder, I must thank James for shopping at Whole Paycheck. Meanwhile, I&#039;ve been buying Copper 
River sockeye at Costco for $10/lb, vs $17 at Whole Foods (We can argue river sources forever, but my taste buds say farm raised is not wild salmon).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little late to the table here, but this author is talking about stuff that Wall Street flailed about, then dismissed 4 months ago. Both Whole Food and United Grocers (major organic distributor) dropped when Wal-Mart made the announcement - at least 4 months ago. Several weeks later, as discussed in the latest Whole Foods conference call, the market realized at organic and places such as Whole Foods are all about the shopping experience, and feeling good about shopping, not the simple "it is organic" stuff. This is in the realm of Virginia Postel, and the "Substance of Style." Meanwile, I think Walmart's single store (Dallas area) experiment in the high end will fail because it does not have the cachet.</p>
<p>The article was also very US-centric is that it avoided all discussion of the European market for organic goods, which is greater than the USA (see German demand for example). For this reason alone, it is very suspect. This article is filler.</p>
<p>Meanwhile (and disclaimer) as a long-term WFMI shareholder, I must thank James for shopping at Whole Paycheck. Meanwhile, I've been buying Copper<br />
River sockeye at Costco for $10/lb, vs $17 at Whole Foods (We can argue river sources forever, but my taste buds say farm raised is not wild salmon).</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous coward</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85187</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous coward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 20:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85187</guid>
		<description>From where does the author think out-of-season food products will come if we insist that all food must be produced and consumed locally?  We here in Seattle don&#039;t get all those strawberries and coconuts from equatorial regions in the dead of winter simply because they&#039;re cheaper per pound than the locally grown ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From where does the author think out-of-season food products will come if we insist that all food must be produced and consumed locally?  We here in Seattle don't get all those strawberries and coconuts from equatorial regions in the dead of winter simply because they're cheaper per pound than the locally grown ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85080</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 13:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85080</guid>
		<description>And if they&#039;re doing as you suggest, how is it they&#039;re snapping up high priced &#039;organics&#039;, then?

Apparently, this is at least one area where price checking and saving is not in force?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if they're doing as you suggest, how is it they're snapping up high priced 'organics', then?</p>
<p>Apparently, this is at least one area where price checking and saving is not in force?</p>
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		<title>By: Signifying Nothing</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85077</link>
		<dc:creator>Signifying Nothing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 12:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85077</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Whole Foods as a fashion accessory...&lt;/strong&gt;

James Joyner has an interesting critique of a whiny piece from the New York Times Magazine on Wal-Mart’s entry into the organic foods market. My general sense of the whole “organic foods” craze is that, like the $3 cup of coffee at Starbucks (or,...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Whole Foods as a fashion accessory...</strong></p>
<p>James Joyner has an interesting critique of a whiny piece from the New York Times Magazine on Wal-Mart&rsquo;s entry into the organic foods market. My general sense of the whole “organic foods” craze is that, like the $3 cup of coffee at Starbucks (or,...</p>
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		<title>By: TheRich</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85076</link>
		<dc:creator>TheRich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 12:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85076</guid>
		<description>You guys certainly have a singular view of the &quot;rich&quot;, don&#039;t you?  I suppose the idea of becoming rich due to saving and price-checking never entered the mind?

Perhaps the dilution of benefits of organic produce by a mass-produced supplier won&#039;t be enough to dismantle those who can distunguish themselves from the masses (and those who can seriously discern the difference in flavor from the shiny alternatives).

Perhaps having even a lesser-organic but much better than pesticide-rich product will actually benefit consumers, &quot;rich&quot; and &quot;non-rich&quot; alike?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys certainly have a singular view of the "rich", don't you?  I suppose the idea of becoming rich due to saving and price-checking never entered the mind?</p>
<p>Perhaps the dilution of benefits of organic produce by a mass-produced supplier won't be enough to dismantle those who can distunguish themselves from the masses (and those who can seriously discern the difference in flavor from the shiny alternatives).</p>
<p>Perhaps having even a lesser-organic but much better than pesticide-rich product will actually benefit consumers, "rich" and "non-rich" alike?</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85073</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85073</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s be honest enough to acknowledge that the only reason organic food never became popular among the elite, was because it was a symbol of the elite.  

Given that everyone else can now afford such, it no longer serves that purpose. Therein lies the backlash against WalMart... and in more than Organic food.... Think about it;

If the average Joe and Jane can afford to have fairly nice things at a price they can afford, of what value is it to be rich?

Think about the objection to WalMarts being built in given areas... At any given time Wal-Mart is suffering from the fool&#039;s surrounding any number of give and town boards, city councils, or planning commissions, going over the extra hurdles involved every time Wal-Mart or another low cost retailer wants to go into a particular neighborhood.  The reason for all of these extra riddles is simple; The Elite in the area don&#039;t want all those low income types in their neighborhood, even if it&#039;s only for shopping... The mark of a low income neighborhood is to have an affordable store at the middle of it.

....or, so the thought process goes. It&#039;s really not all that hard to ferret this stuff out once you understand the basic motivation of people who consider themselves to be &quot;elite&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let's be honest enough to acknowledge that the only reason organic food never became popular among the elite, was because it was a symbol of the elite.  </p>
<p>Given that everyone else can now afford such, it no longer serves that purpose. Therein lies the backlash against WalMart... and in more than Organic food.... Think about it;</p>
<p>If the average Joe and Jane can afford to have fairly nice things at a price they can afford, of what value is it to be rich?</p>
<p>Think about the objection to WalMarts being built in given areas... At any given time Wal-Mart is suffering from the fool's surrounding any number of give and town boards, city councils, or planning commissions, going over the extra hurdles involved every time Wal-Mart or another low cost retailer wants to go into a particular neighborhood.  The reason for all of these extra riddles is simple; The Elite in the area don't want all those low income types in their neighborhood, even if it's only for shopping... The mark of a low income neighborhood is to have an affordable store at the middle of it.</p>
<p>....or, so the thought process goes. It's really not all that hard to ferret this stuff out once you understand the basic motivation of people who consider themselves to be "elite".</p>
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		<title>By: Maniakes</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85057</link>
		<dc:creator>Maniakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85057</guid>
		<description>If people are really willing to pay enough for polyculture farms to be viable, they farmers and their distributors will come up with a new name for the product to distiguish it from &#039;Wal-Mart organic&#039;. If they&#039;re smart, they&#039;ll pick something trademarkable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If people are really willing to pay enough for polyculture farms to be viable, they farmers and their distributors will come up with a new name for the product to distiguish it from 'Wal-Mart organic'. If they're smart, they'll pick something trademarkable.</p>
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		<title>By: waste22land</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85053</link>
		<dc:creator>waste22land</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85053</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And, would the niche organic products now available still be available for those willing and able to invest in ensuring that the animals grown to be killed and eaten have enjoyable lives? If so, what&#039;s the harm?&lt;/blockquote&gt;



When you buy meat from the grocery store, do you ask who the suppliers are? Don&#039;t think so. When Wal-mart starts carrying organic meat (from mono-cultured big feed lot) at a much lower price than Wholefoods (which buys from some small poly-cultured farms), Wholefoods will have the price pressure to source more of their meat from big feed lots. The end result is - the small poly-cultured farms will be driven out of business for their higher cost of maintaining the farm. That is the harm!

I am all for greater organic product accessibility. But if it means bankrupting farmers and growers who respect the land and respect who &quot;organic&quot; stands for, then I think we are heading the wrong direction. &lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And, would the niche organic products now available still be available for those willing and able to invest in ensuring that the animals grown to be killed and eaten have enjoyable lives? If so, what's the harm?</p></blockquote>
<p>When you buy meat from the grocery store, do you ask who the suppliers are? Don't think so. When Wal-mart starts carrying organic meat (from mono-cultured big feed lot) at a much lower price than Wholefoods (which buys from some small poly-cultured farms), Wholefoods will have the price pressure to source more of their meat from big feed lots. The end result is - the small poly-cultured farms will be driven out of business for their higher cost of maintaining the farm. That is the harm!</p>
<p>I am all for greater organic product accessibility. But if it means bankrupting farmers and growers who respect the land and respect who "organic" stands for, then I think we are heading the wrong direction. <strong></strong></p>
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		<title>By: my cat</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85049</link>
		<dc:creator>my cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 18:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85049</guid>
		<description>The self-appointed elite in this country  is in the leadership of the Republican party or at the head of commpanies with financial ties to the leaders of the Republican party.  I don&#039;t know that they have a policy on organic food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The self-appointed elite in this country  is in the leadership of the Republican party or at the head of commpanies with financial ties to the leaders of the Republican party.  I don't know that they have a policy on organic food.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Kellogg</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85044</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Kellogg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 17:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85044</guid>
		<description>Our self appointed elite doesn&#039;t want the common schlub to have the good stuff, so they rationalize barriers to ready access.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our self appointed elite doesn't want the common schlub to have the good stuff, so they rationalize barriers to ready access.</p>
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		<title>By: Moe Lane</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/comment-page-1/#comment-85035</link>
		<dc:creator>Moe Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 14:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/wal-mart_ruining_organics_for_the_elites/#comment-85035</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m agnostic on the entire organic food thing, but I can&#039;t help but wonder whether Wal-Mart&#039;s success will &lt;i&gt;actually&lt;/i&gt; demonstrate that most organic food is simply overpriced.

OTOH, this issue has almost religious overtones to a number of people, so perhaps I should just behave.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm agnostic on the entire organic food thing, but I can't help but wonder whether Wal-Mart's success will <i>actually</i> demonstrate that most organic food is simply overpriced.</p>
<p>OTOH, this issue has almost religious overtones to a number of people, so perhaps I should just behave.  :)</p>
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