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	<title>Comments on: War in Iraq or $1,075?</title>
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		<title>By: Faith and Facts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What Does $1,000 Buy?</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-96293</link>
		<dc:creator>Faith and Facts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What Does $1,000 Buy?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 23:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-96293</guid>
		<description>[...] Read more on this topic here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read more on this topic here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Jaquith</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95817</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Jaquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 08:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95817</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;How about all the money we spent on a bunch of B.S. feel good security&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Now &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; money, I&#039;d gladly take back.

Bonus: speedier airports and the ability to self-hydrate in flight.

Negative: lucky bastard who gets &quot;probed&quot; by the ONE hot TSA worker (there has to be at least one -- right?) has to get his jollies elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>How about all the money we spent on a bunch of B.S. feel good security</p></blockquote>
<p>Now <em>that</em> money, I'd gladly take back.</p>
<p>Bonus: speedier airports and the ability to self-hydrate in flight.</p>
<p>Negative: lucky bastard who gets "probed" by the ONE hot TSA worker (there has to be at least one -- right?) has to get his jollies elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95764</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95764</guid>
		<description>$1,075 over a three-year period,  not bad. How about all the money we spent on a bunch of B.S. feel good security and so call reaction preparation spending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$1,075 over a three-year period,  not bad. How about all the money we spent on a bunch of B.S. feel good security and so call reaction preparation spending.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95637</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95637</guid>
		<description>This is a profoundly absurb question.  It is a classic false dichotomy hobby horse trotted out to act as a platform for any number of other opinions.

Firstly, this question was not, indeed, could not, be put to the people or the Congress for a vote.  The dollar figures and Mr. Logan&#039;s view of the situationi Iraq rely on cherry picking and hindsight.

Secondly, I continue to take issue with the unbridled pessimism of Mr. Logan&#039;s views on Iraq.  I think perhaps the current situation is really about as good as can be expeced, though it would take far too much space to explain why here.  I know this puts me at odds with some of the initial commenters here, but, then again, I&#039;m trying to make an argument, not just leave a flaming bag of dg feces on your doorstep.

Thirdly, since when are we all paying the same in taxes, which is implied since we would all be getting the same &quot;surrender&quot; dividend.

Oh, and do you remember the &quot;peace&quot; dividend we were supposed to get at the end of the Cold War?  Well, the bills are now coming due for that little holiday from history, with compounded interest.  In the bad old days, the US and Russia/China somewhat suppressed the escalation of conflicts around the world, as did the communist regimes of Eastern Europe between the various factions living within their borders.  Once the restraints came off and , ahem, peace broke out all over, a lot of old, festering hatreds came to the fore, nationally and internationally.

Mr. Logan is basically just offering a flavor of isolationism, a poorly reasoned one at that, and I&#039;m not buying.  Though perhaps Mr. Logan can tell me what my share of the Big Dig might be or what my childrens&#039; share of the restoration of New Orleans will eventualy be when we finally give up on that in about twenty years.

If Mr. Logan really wants to look into government waste and the cost of progressive policies, maybe he should visit St. Louis where the opening of the Metrolink extension was celebrated yesterday.  Sure it cost $250 for every man, woman and child in the entire St. Louis metropolitan area to build that eight miles of track, and, yes, they may have to shut down because they don&#039;t have the money to operate it, since, naturally, it cannot even pay for it&#039;s own ongoing operation, but hey, we&#039;ve increased the capability of public transportation.  I guess it&#039;s a shame that crank&#039;s like me can&#039;t appreciate that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a profoundly absurb question.  It is a classic false dichotomy hobby horse trotted out to act as a platform for any number of other opinions.</p>
<p>Firstly, this question was not, indeed, could not, be put to the people or the Congress for a vote.  The dollar figures and Mr. Logan's view of the situationi Iraq rely on cherry picking and hindsight.</p>
<p>Secondly, I continue to take issue with the unbridled pessimism of Mr. Logan's views on Iraq.  I think perhaps the current situation is really about as good as can be expeced, though it would take far too much space to explain why here.  I know this puts me at odds with some of the initial commenters here, but, then again, I'm trying to make an argument, not just leave a flaming bag of dg feces on your doorstep.</p>
<p>Thirdly, since when are we all paying the same in taxes, which is implied since we would all be getting the same "surrender" dividend.</p>
<p>Oh, and do you remember the "peace" dividend we were supposed to get at the end of the Cold War?  Well, the bills are now coming due for that little holiday from history, with compounded interest.  In the bad old days, the US and Russia/China somewhat suppressed the escalation of conflicts around the world, as did the communist regimes of Eastern Europe between the various factions living within their borders.  Once the restraints came off and , ahem, peace broke out all over, a lot of old, festering hatreds came to the fore, nationally and internationally.</p>
<p>Mr. Logan is basically just offering a flavor of isolationism, a poorly reasoned one at that, and I'm not buying.  Though perhaps Mr. Logan can tell me what my share of the Big Dig might be or what my childrens' share of the restoration of New Orleans will eventualy be when we finally give up on that in about twenty years.</p>
<p>If Mr. Logan really wants to look into government waste and the cost of progressive policies, maybe he should visit St. Louis where the opening of the Metrolink extension was celebrated yesterday.  Sure it cost $250 for every man, woman and child in the entire St. Louis metropolitan area to build that eight miles of track, and, yes, they may have to shut down because they don't have the money to operate it, since, naturally, it cannot even pay for it's own ongoing operation, but hey, we've increased the capability of public transportation.  I guess it's a shame that crank's like me can't appreciate that.</p>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95636</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95636</guid>
		<description>Some of you guys and gals are so funny. You P and moan about $1,075.00 and go out and pee that much away on something stupid that you don&#039;t need. Take your family out to a football game and you will end up spending about 3 to 4 hundred dollars and with 3 games a year,, there&#039;s $ 1,000.00. Take a 3 day trip to Disney World and that will cost you about $ 2,000.00 or more.
Some of you folks just want to P and Moan about the war and try your best like you are now broke because of the war cost and yet you will spent more that the $ 1,000.00 on something about as dumb as your arguments.

The one thing you are not saying is that if the Democrats were in office, you would pay the $ 1075.00 plus a hell of a lot more in increased taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of you guys and gals are so funny. You P and moan about $1,075.00 and go out and pee that much away on something stupid that you don't need. Take your family out to a football game and you will end up spending about 3 to 4 hundred dollars and with 3 games a year,, there's $ 1,000.00. Take a 3 day trip to Disney World and that will cost you about $ 2,000.00 or more.<br />
Some of you folks just want to P and Moan about the war and try your best like you are now broke because of the war cost and yet you will spent more that the $ 1,000.00 on something about as dumb as your arguments.</p>
<p>The one thing you are not saying is that if the Democrats were in office, you would pay the $ 1075.00 plus a hell of a lot more in increased taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: the musings of Brandon Jaynes &#187; What Would You Rather Have?</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95633</link>
		<dc:creator>the musings of Brandon Jaynes &#187; What Would You Rather Have?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95633</guid>
		<description>[...] I think James Joyner responds the best:  Frankly, I’m astounded that the cost is that low. Indeed, let’s rephrase the question: “What Would You Rather Have: 26,783,383 Iraqis free to chose their own government or a new Dell desktop?” Or perhaps, “What Would You Rather Have: Saddam Hussein killing thousands of people a year or a new transmission for the minivan?” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I think James Joyner responds the best:  Frankly, I&rsquo;m astounded that the cost is that low. Indeed, let&rsquo;s rephrase the question: “What Would You Rather Have: 26,783,383 Iraqis free to chose their own government or a new Dell desktop?” Or perhaps, “What Would You Rather Have: Saddam Hussein killing thousands of people a year or a new transmission for the minivan?” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95632</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95632</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;One can have democracy and chaos simultaneously. France did on multiple occasions in the century or so after their Revolution. India has, too, off and on since independence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I seem to recall a little civil unrest in the 1860s here in the U.S. It&#039;s sad, and frightening, the short attention span and lack of historic perspective that most Americans share today. There is no understanding of the bigger picture.

I&#039;m not standing up as a proud supporter of the war or anything, but geez it is kind of valuable to view the war&#039;s impact to the region over the long term, not by the casualties piled in one day, one week or even one month. You have to try and visualize the effects 3 years from now, not 3 days from now.

I do find it startling that now it seems, based on the posts here, that some liberals are backing away from even thinking Saddam needed to be ousted. Sounds to me like people would be happy to have Saddam back in there if American soldiers could be pulled out of Iraq. That is scary thinking.

This whole &quot;let&#039;s retreat to our borders and lick our wounds&quot; mentality is shocking. It&#039;s like liberals are desperate to psychologically relive the entire Vietnam period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One can have democracy and chaos simultaneously. France did on multiple occasions in the century or so after their Revolution. India has, too, off and on since independence.</p></blockquote>
<p>I seem to recall a little civil unrest in the 1860s here in the U.S. It's sad, and frightening, the short attention span and lack of historic perspective that most Americans share today. There is no understanding of the bigger picture.</p>
<p>I'm not standing up as a proud supporter of the war or anything, but geez it is kind of valuable to view the war's impact to the region over the long term, not by the casualties piled in one day, one week or even one month. You have to try and visualize the effects 3 years from now, not 3 days from now.</p>
<p>I do find it startling that now it seems, based on the posts here, that some liberals are backing away from even thinking Saddam needed to be ousted. Sounds to me like people would be happy to have Saddam back in there if American soldiers could be pulled out of Iraq. That is scary thinking.</p>
<p>This whole "let's retreat to our borders and lick our wounds" mentality is shocking. It's like liberals are desperate to psychologically relive the entire Vietnam period.</p>
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		<title>By: gnatman</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95629</link>
		<dc:creator>gnatman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95629</guid>
		<description>You mean to tell me it cost only a little over a thousand dollars just to give most of Iraq to Iran.  I&#039;m glad my tax money is being used so responsibly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean to tell me it cost only a little over a thousand dollars just to give most of Iraq to Iran.  I'm glad my tax money is being used so responsibly.</p>
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		<title>By: An Interested Party</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95627</link>
		<dc:creator>An Interested Party</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 06:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95627</guid>
		<description>It isn&#039;t so much a matter of stealing as it is of using that rationalization after all the other ones have failed...I&#039;ve never seen so many different reasons frantically given for a war... we did it for WMD...no, wait, there is an al-Qaeda/Saddam link...no, wait, we did it because the road to Israeli/Palestinian peace goes through Baghdad...no, wait, we are, suddenly, for democracy...really, if they thought that it would be plausible to argue that they invaded Iraq to fight tooth decay, they would...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn't so much a matter of stealing as it is of using that rationalization after all the other ones have failed...I've never seen so many different reasons frantically given for a war... we did it for WMD...no, wait, there is an al-Qaeda/Saddam link...no, wait, we did it because the road to Israeli/Palestinian peace goes through Baghdad...no, wait, we are, suddenly, for democracy...really, if they thought that it would be plausible to argue that they invaded Iraq to fight tooth decay, they would...</p>
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		<title>By: esoterically.net/weblog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95623</link>
		<dc:creator>esoterically.net/weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 03:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95623</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Stupid Question...&lt;/strong&gt;

James Joyner links to Justin Logan who asks &#8220;What Would You Rather Have: The War in Iraq, or $1,075?&#8221;
Kind of a stupid question, really, but if those are my two choices I&#8217;ll take the $1,075 and thank you very much.
The figure of $1,07...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Stupid Question...</strong></p>
<p>James Joyner links to Justin Logan who asks &#8220;What Would You Rather Have: The War in Iraq, or $1,075?&#8221;<br />
Kind of a stupid question, really, but if those are my two choices I&#8217;ll take the $1,075 and thank you very much.<br />
The figure of $1,07...</p>
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		<title>By: BlogDC</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95614</link>
		<dc:creator>BlogDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95614</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;A &quot;Free&quot; Iraq...&lt;/strong&gt;

James Joyner, usually among the more sensible of those on the right, makes an absolutely ridiculous claim regarding the costs of the Iraq war:Frankly, I’m astounded that the cost is that low. Indeed, let’s rephrase the question: “What Would You.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>A "Free" Iraq...</strong></p>
<p>James Joyner, usually among the more sensible of those on the right, makes an absolutely ridiculous claim regarding the costs of the Iraq war:Frankly, I&rsquo;m astounded that the cost is that low. Indeed, let&rsquo;s rephrase the question: “What Would You.....</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95612</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 22:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95612</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Seriously, when did the right’s motivation change from patriotic justice to altruistic sacrifice?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When did the Left let us steal that motivation from them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Seriously, when did the right&rsquo;s motivation change from patriotic justice to altruistic sacrifice?</p></blockquote>
<p>When did the Left let us steal that motivation from them?</p>
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		<title>By: Triumph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95605</link>
		<dc:creator>Triumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95605</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;“What Would You Rather Have: The War in Iraq, or $1,075?”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is an idiotic question.

The cost of the war could provide comprehensive health insurance to 185 million children.  Or we could have given 15 million scholarships for American students to go to college.

It would be much better to invest in AMERICAN CITIZENS than in a bunch of ungrateful Iraqis who can&#039;t even form a stable government.

If anyone read our Ambassador to Iraq&#039;s--an immigrant who happens to actually be a Sunni Moselm (like Osama Bin Laden)--Oped in the Wall Street Journal the other day, he laid out what is going on with &quot;reconstrction&quot; and it is basically a socialist project with the US footing the bill.  

I am generally an anti-socialist, but if the government is going to be spending our money, I&#039;d rather that they were spending it on Americans rather than Iraqis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>“What Would You Rather Have: The War in Iraq, or $1,075?”</p></blockquote>
<p>This is an idiotic question.</p>
<p>The cost of the war could provide comprehensive health insurance to 185 million children.  Or we could have given 15 million scholarships for American students to go to college.</p>
<p>It would be much better to invest in AMERICAN CITIZENS than in a bunch of ungrateful Iraqis who can't even form a stable government.</p>
<p>If anyone read our Ambassador to Iraq's--an immigrant who happens to actually be a Sunni Moselm (like Osama Bin Laden)--Oped in the Wall Street Journal the other day, he laid out what is going on with "reconstrction" and it is basically a socialist project with the US footing the bill.  </p>
<p>I am generally an anti-socialist, but if the government is going to be spending our money, I'd rather that they were spending it on Americans rather than Iraqis.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95604</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95604</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What Would You Rather Have: Saddam Hussein killing thousands of people a year or a new transmission for the minivan?”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When that minivan belongs to a single mom who needs transportation to her minimum wage job so she can feed her kids, how much do you think she&#039;s gonna care about people she&#039;ll never know living in a country she&#039;ll never visit?

Seriously, when did the right&#039;s motivation change from patriotic justice to altruistic sacrifice?  How many Republican voters would accept a $1,075/year tax increase to help the poor, sick and dying right here in the USA?  How many Republican politicians would sponsor such a bill?  You&#039;ll forgive me for not believing that this was ever about those poor oppressed Iraqis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What Would You Rather Have: Saddam Hussein killing thousands of people a year or a new transmission for the minivan?”</p></blockquote>
<p>When that minivan belongs to a single mom who needs transportation to her minimum wage job so she can feed her kids, how much do you think she's gonna care about people she'll never know living in a country she'll never visit?</p>
<p>Seriously, when did the right's motivation change from patriotic justice to altruistic sacrifice?  How many Republican voters would accept a $1,075/year tax increase to help the poor, sick and dying right here in the USA?  How many Republican politicians would sponsor such a bill?  You'll forgive me for not believing that this was ever about those poor oppressed Iraqis.</p>
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		<title>By: M1EK</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/war_in_iraq_or_1075/comment-page-1/#comment-95603</link>
		<dc:creator>M1EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/08/war_in_iraq_or_1075/#comment-95603</guid>
		<description>A hearty me-too to the people taking issue with the claim that we&#039;ve brought anything resembling &#039;freedom&#039; to the Iraqis with this &#039;investment&#039;. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid, man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A hearty me-too to the people taking issue with the claim that we've brought anything resembling 'freedom' to the Iraqis with this 'investment'. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid, man.</p>
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