all they're doing is stopping you from consuming sources you don't currently have

Ah, but you see, we DO have it. It's just that government stands in our way.

I'm addicted to air. I CRAVE air. I gotta have it. Is cutting off my current supply while I search for another, altogether wise, do you think?

It's more like water. When you have a drought, you don't say that we should be diverting water from other areas so that you can continue to water your lawn.

Nobody is taking away oil sources you currently have, all they're doing is stopping you from consuming sources you don't currently have, just so that you won't have to change your habits.

In the meanwhile, don't saddle the rest of us with the increased costs and the lack of functionality currently associated with the alternatives currently being 'offered' (Read that, crammed down our thorats) and stop trying to starve off the current modes of transport.

I'm addicted to air. I CRAVE air. I gotta have it. Is cutting off my current supply while I search for another, altogether wise, do you think?

In my family, if you could not tell the difference between the Punic & Peloponnesian War(s) by the time you were 10, you were kind of slow. So I will stand by the history I know.

Nobody's impressed by your childhood, stop relying on ego to boost your argument. Either you can support yourself with facts, or you can't support yourself at all. There's no shame in being wrong (God knows I've been wrong plenty of times around here), as long as you learn from it.

Well, I wasn't suggesting they had any really substantial production numbers... (grin)

I was pointing out the difference between the internal combustion engine itself, which proceeded electric vehicles, and it's use in an automobile, which happened at roughly the same time as the use of electric.

The Prius:
Disco for today.

The Prius itself maybe, but hybrids, all electric and alternative fuel vehicles will only get more popular in the future. Even if we have 100 years worth of oil, it'll take 25 years to determine which technology will be able to sustain us after than, and at least 50 years to build up an infrastructure comparable to what we have now for oil/gasoline. That only leaves us about 25 years of wiggle-room, we shouldn't be wasting our time now.

Disco for today.

Funny thing about disco, a lot of people have talked smack about it, but every night, people in clubs all over the world go out dancing to it and have a great time. It has value, and it has stood the test of time...

no google required, that song came out before I started smoking dope. Some of the 70s stuff is a bit fuzzier...

I knew that stuff had already been done, and have been found wanting.

It still is.

That would explain why Toyota has trouble keeping up with the demand for the Prius...

However, they didn't (as Bit mistakenly claimed) exist prior to the internal combustion engine itself.

Well, I wasn't suggesting they had any really substantial production numbers... (grin)

And you are willing to accept the conclusions that engineers made 110 years ago as the best way of dealing with the problems of the 21st century.

Are you willing to admit you've not come up with anything better, yet? Are you willing to admit that cutting off what we have is utter stupidity?

And aren't you the one pushing hybrid technology invented in 1901? Oh, yeah, you forgot, I guess.

The fact that you can Google things and cobble together arguments is not all that impressive Bit. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard.

Actually, I usually don't. The Brewer and Shipley thing, for example, is all off the top of my head; I was in the radio biz at the time. And the electric hyrbid car was already known to me as well, (but not the specifics... I'm glad someone else picked that one up) because I grew up in a mechanic's household, and made cars my chilhood hobby. I knew that stuff had already been done, and have been found wanting.

It still is.

I guess you are just too busy camping to try and grapple with the problem of how to make our economy viable over the next century.

It's already been done.
The answer: Drill refine, repeat as needed.
Even by currently known deposits, and leaving aside finds between now and then, that puts us at least 100 years out.

They figured out that the best way to deal with the problem was oil.

And you are willing to accept the conclusions that engineers made 110 years ago as the best way of dealing with the problems of the 21st century. Yep, you are a Bushie all right.

In short, he knows little of history

The fact that you can Google things and cobble together arguments is not all that impressive Bit. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard.

In my family, if you could not tell the difference between the Punic & Peloponnesian War(s) by the time you were 10, you were kind of slow. So I will stand by the history I know.

There is a saying about history that you Bushies just don't seem to get. "Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."

The earliest example I could find of a gas-electric hybrid was from 1901, which I would call close enough.

So, he's pushing century old technology. As I said. In short, he knows little of history and so falls for the same crap they did back then. They figured out that the best way to deal with the problem was oil. Perhaps he'll come up to the present day, but I doubt it.

Just an Old song, it's my birthday and I am afraid my age is showing..

Off the top of my head, it's an LA band calling themselves Brewer and Shipley. They had been around since 1962 or so... took 'em ten years for a failing Kama Sutra records to sign them and release a couple singles... One toke being their first, and biggest. Other singles, again, off the top of my head, "Tarkio Road". (Off the same album, I think) A passible band, but no great shakes. Really popular with the Berkeley and Cabridge crowds though, mostly for their leftist politics. I'll leave it to your imagination why anjin remembers them so fondly.

BTW... They've not had a hit since 1972. Last I heard, both of them were living around Branson somewhere, though I haven't heard of them working there, as such, though I hear one of them is working as a professor at the state school, there. Not sure in what field.

Where are these "obscene" profits Exxon made. They had sales of 400 billion, made 40 billion. My little TI calculator says that is 10%.

About where does Obscene start?

The profit does not come from the refining or the gasoline side. That has made 9% for the last 40 years. The ups and downs of the oil business come from the EXPLORATION side and getting crude out. The costs of getting a bbl out is about 8-10 dollars now. When it sell on the OPEN market for 135 , guess what...you make a lot of money in that ONE section of your business. Where was the concern over the oil business as it is with the housing business, when about 10 years ago crude went from 20 to 8 dollars....Did congress set up a bail out....like the 300 billion one they passed yesterday for the Mortgage banks that gave Chris Dodd (D) his cheap loan...

Intel makes 20 plus...how much did the Apple geeks make...

So where do the Dems start the confiscation level. What if your little bakery makes 30%. Will they be after you.

Some of those offshore platforms you see are putting out 100,000 bbls per day. Now if you let that loos then you can have a real spill. But the technology today cuts it off down at the ocean floor if a blow out happens. Not much spills during normal opoeration. Simply not allowed. Has to be a catastrophic situation.

Plus most of the crude will EVAPORATE before you can even get the clean up crew loaded in a boat. Unless it is really low gravity crude on the order of road tar. Most of these crudes that are good high quality are on the order of the consistency of Sprite or Coke. Very light. Has a lot of volatiles in it and makes a lot of gasoline and easy to refine.

Also evaporates rapidly...especially in the moving water with waves chopping it up.

Usually that stuff you see in the TV is WHAT IS LEFT after the light stuff goes away. Its the same stuff left over after we refine it. The asphaltenes and fuel oil type stuff.