But if you'd like to stand, why don't you back this up:

"I was largely adressing the crowd that wants to burn down SUV dealerships [...]"

Please prove that there is a crowd out there that wants to burn down SUV dealerships.

"We are seeing people who are driving $40,000 Suburbans trading them in on $15,000 Corollas," said Mathews, who manages a dealership in a state where big trucks and sport-utility vehicles rule the roads. "The last 30 days have been unlike anything I've ever seen in the automotive industry."

more here

The "No Takers" came from a quote by the Saudi Oil Minister during the big oil meeting held in Johannesburg.

You can find the entire quote and some quotes by Ray Tillman, Pres. of Exxon/Mobil. Try this site
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news

let me know if you find it or not. Thanks.

Now, with an excess of crude available, and no takers, the price of oil should decrease. That is not happening. Instead, the price remains about 63 to 67 dollars per barrel.

What do you mean no takers? Has oil consumption really gone down? Show me the data Herb.

But since we are having fun with sterotypes I'll tell you what I hate ... pear shaped people sliding out of big SUVs, and waddling into the mini-mart to buy another big-gulp and some junk food.

And I'll bet you $5 that crowd is bigger than the one protesting SUVs.

You entirely missed my point. I was largely adressing the crowd that wants to burn down SUV dealerships (great for the environment) and make everybody take the bus. Unfortunately, we do not have busses in our rural community. And have you ever hauled cord of wood in your Prius?

The Prius is a step in the right direction by the manufacturer. It is a good solution for some people (the Hummer owners you mentioned) to reduce the overall fuel demand, until something better comes along. It's good for areas of urban sprawl, like Tijuana to Malibu, where you can cut the air with a knife.

But I don't buy wholesale the sales pitch coming from those who manufacture the car. It's simply too early to tell how these things will endure.

Ironically, some people don't think their Prius, Birkenstocks, PETA flyers, or rice cakes have any environmental impact. That is just totally naive and stupid.

As far as the best, where's the beef? I haven't complained about gasoline prices. I actually think they are a good thing given the known problems we have with oil and national security, as well as the known environmental problems.

One thing I do notice here is that people on the political extreme, who have "bundles" of beliefs granted to them by their Party, have a hard time relating to people who take issues one by one, and try to decide by the merits.

Hybrids are good, and if you've got the money (we rich California Republicans do), then there isn't really a downside. AFAIK wind power is good too. I have a bit of a discomfort with nukes, but about 25% of my power acutally comes from San Onofre, and I'm not calling for it to be shut down. So anyway ... beware of your "bundles." They don't apply to non-ideologes.

"You made your bed, now sleep in it"

According to Toyota: 1) no prius batteries have worn out yet. 2) a recycling procedure is in place, the material is valuable and 3) they've put a big sticker on the battery with a trade in value, a few hundred bucks, to make sure whoever tears the car apart will turn them in.

As far as more efficient snow cars, Subarus have always been popular. The only problem is that in city driving they match current US fleet mileage. They don't reduce our dependence on imported oil.

I read in the Prius forums of some people using them in snow states, but I don't know. I'm in southern California, where some people think they need a shiny waxed Hummer H2 to go to the mall.

I think there was a misunderstanding about what I was trying to say.

Prior to Katrina, all we heard was that the price of crude oil was the guideline used to price gasoline. As we saw crude price increase, the gasoline price increased. The supply/demand excuse (for crude)was the reason given for the increase of crude with a consequence of a rise in the price of gasoline.

Now, with an excess of crude available, and no takers, the price of oil should decrease. That is not happening. Instead, the price remains about 63 to 67 dollars per barrel.

Where is the decrease in the price of Crude?
Remember there is an excess of crude. If supply/demand applies, there should be a decrease. There is no decrease. So, the supply/demand issue that existed prior to Katrina was just an excuse to increase crude/gasoline prices.

I have just read an article that come from the big Oil gathering in Johannesburg quoting the following from Ray Tillman, President of Exxon/mobile. "There are an estimated 3 Trillion, yes Trillion barrels of reserve available" and "There are an estimated 7 Trillion barrels yet to be discovered" "The 3 trillion in reserves is more oil that has been brought up in all of history" And
The Saudi Oil Minister was quoted " We have an excess of oil, give us the customers and we will supply the oil"

Now Steve, We do have an overabundance of oil available, so, where is the crude price decrease?

And again remember, the so called shortage of oil was the reason given for the crude price increase prior to Katrina, and the consequential gasoline price increase.

If you think in terms of Pre Katrina/Rita and post Katrina/Rita, then I hope you can see where I am coming from. In other words, Pre Katrina crude price increases predicated on low supply are now wiped out by an excess of oil, so, there should be crude price decreases in direct proportion to the excess supply we now have and are likely to have in the foreseeable future. With the excess supply, then all the increases pre Katrina should be wiped out to the price several months ago when so called supply was not available.

If the prices do not decrease, then one can only conclude that "Price Gouging" was and is going on.

I'm all for more efficient vehicles, and alternative fuels, but you have to realize there ARE trade-offs. Look at the environmentalists fight AGAINST nuclear power proposed to stop combustion generated power. Look at the fight againstwind power, to save the pristine hilltops and flight paths of migratory birds. Look at the fight against hydro-power. I've heard it all.

So now this Prius is such a godsend. Just wait until the batteries start piling up. Wait until we see more heavy metals, cyanide compounds, etc. in groundwater. Just wait.

If some one wants to be a true environmentalist, they should really do some research and know the trade-offs of their choices. The idea that there is some perfect solution is naive.