Comments on: Who Cares About Georgia?

By: vanya

vanya — Wed, 14 May 2008 17:08:20 +0000

Moscow controlled the Ukraine from 1654 to 1917, and it didn't bother the US one bit. That was a perfectly fine world. Culturally and linguistically Georgia really has very little in common with Russia - it's more like Turkey. But Ukraine and Russia are pretty much analogous to Scotland and England. Most Ukrainians like Russia, most Ukrainians speak Russian better than their "native" language, over 17% of Ukrainians are ethnic Russians, there's a huge amount of intermarriage, most popular media (music, books, TV) is in Russian, etc. etc. The idea that the US should be actively intervening in Ukraine is prima facie absurd. Nothing good can come of it. Ukraine will democratize hand in hand in Russia. The best way to stop that democratization process is to try to foster Ukrainian-Russian tensions.

By: Eunomia » Interests

Eunomia » Interests — Wed, 14 May 2008 03:17:16 +0000

[...] James Joyner responds to my post on Kagan: The question, though, is whether American policymakers should care if Georgia’s fate is controlled by Russia. [...]

By: Anderson

Anderson — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:15:41 +0000

what - other than a few good 5-year economic plans - stands between the Russia Putin is building and the old USSR?

Same empire, different tsar.

And then went on to capture large parts of eastern Europe which they held for many hundreds of years.

Today, Georgia; tomorrow, the world!

By: legion

legion — Tue, 13 May 2008 20:58:48 +0000

Well, historical pissing contests aside, what - other than a few good 5-year economic plans - stands between the Russia Putin is building and the old USSR?

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 13 May 2008 20:28:49 +0000

... 579 years later.

And then went on to capture large parts of eastern Europe which they held for many hundreds of years.

By: Anderson

Anderson — Tue, 13 May 2008 20:18:31 +0000

You could have said the same thing about the Muslims in 874 AD, but that didn't stop them from eventually capturing the city.

... 579 years later.

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 13 May 2008 20:09:42 +0000

Oh, good sweet lord. "The Russians shall not have Constantinople!" If they didn't manage it in 200 years, I'm not prepared to worry much about it now.

You could have said the same thing about the Muslims in 874 AD, but that didn't stop them from eventually capturing the city.

By: Anderson

Anderson — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:35:31 +0000

If we let Russia cross the Georgia/Russia border now, will we stop them from crossing the Georgia/Armenia border in the future? How about Georgia/Turkey? Oh, good sweet lord. "The Russians shall not have Constantinople!" If they didn't manage it in 200 years, I'm not prepared to worry much about it now.

By: yetanotherjohn

yetanotherjohn — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:17:27 +0000

There are a variety of times when you could honestly say "Do we want to live in a world where Russia holds sway over ______"

Some times we answered no and made it stick
Greece 1946-49
Berlin 1948-52
Korea 1950 to today
Afghanistan 1979 - 89

Sometimes we just wrung our hands
Hungary 1956
Checkoslovakia 1968

and sometimes we tried and came up short (e.g. Vietnam)

In the end, the wining strategy was to be forceful and resolute, but not push any point to all out war directly with Russia (e.g. Cuban missile crisis).

It is in our interests to have more free, democratically elected governments. It makes the world safer. To the extent the Ukranians and Georgians want to defend themselves, give them the tools is a good move for us. To the extent that we put our troops to stop the soviet tanks, we need to think long and hard.

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:12:28 +0000

Georgia may not have any significant importance to the US, but it does make a nice buffer. If we let Russia cross the Georgia/Russia border now, will we stop them from crossing the Georgia/Armenia border in the future? How about Georgia/Turkey?

Nobody much cared whether Austria was governed from Vienna or Berlin in 1938. Then again, the Russians probably used the same analogy to oppose Georgian membership in NATO.

By: Anderson

Anderson — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:06:28 +0000

Would the United States really want to live in a world where Russia held sway over Georgia and the Ukraine?

Um, well, we *did* live in a world like that for pretty much the entire history of the U.S. up until 1990 or so.