And then we get those who appear to be trying to place blame

You know, the stupidity of the statement is bothering me more and more. I am not interesting in "placing blame". I do want us to be realistic about where we have gone wrong in the past, to learn from our mistakes, and to work harder at living up to the ideals the country was founded on, not just talking about it.

And then we get those who appear to be trying to place blame on the US for its past actions. The list of nations that have sinned and contributed to the current I/P situation is rather long, and their sins no less grievous than any the US has done.

Actually very few other countries have sins as grievous as our in the area. Pretty much just the Brits and Russians. I can't think of anyone else who even comes close to as much meddling with so many awful stupid consequences.

And then we get those who appear to be trying to place blame on the US for its past actions. The list of nations that have sinned and contributed to the current I/P situation is rather long, and their sins no less grievous than any the US has done.

Yes. But I am not a citizen of those countries. We are responsible for keeping our own house in order.

the number of bows and grovels our little President must perform

Well mannning, did you protest Bushs' lip locks and hand holding with Saudi leaders? Or are you just whining?

I see little merit in assessing blame ad infinitem, and attempting to build a score, or some other useless dodge, to somehow apportion the blame and the costs for fixes, or the number of bows and grovels our little President must perform in front of the world, apparently pleading for absolution of sins that he sees, to the barely muted laughter of the Islamic world.

It will, indeed, "be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East." And it will die happy.

Since this land has been fought over for at least 4,000 years, the entire issue becomes shrouded in the fog of the quarrels of the ancient past, and becomes a quite useless, divisive discussion very quickly.

Trying to establish a starting point for this discussion, we are treated with walk-backs into history that actually can never stop in time, and opinions about the major events, people, policies, and battles during the walk-backs that are quite biased, and are increasingly incapable of factual support as one move back in time. I see it as hopeless to admit the grievances of over 4,000 years of conflict into consideration.

Is there a way forward that puts the past aside and tries to reach a realistic accommodation?

typical fear monger Zionist extremist you are.....

dragging up info about piracy from over 200yrs ago does not play into todays events. the fact is, the state of Israel is expanding like a cancer with no cure, in its thirst for land and political conquest.

the Zionist state drums up acts of violence and forces the "others" to retaliate with violence and then calls its military slaughter "self defense"!!!!

i have no problem with the Jewish population as a whole, as many are decent people, but it's the Zionist government that is the cancer on our planet. if it weren't for our cowardly Congress that are consistently the ONLY/SOLO veto backers of any israeli reprimands via the United Nations resolutions or Human Rights Groups, the state of israel would have had peace long ago, but instead, with glee they continue with atrocities.

look what is happening this week at the UN, the US is not going to show up, because of language reprimanding Israel on human rights!!!!! please, what a bunch of freckn' COWARDS are CONGRESS has become!!!! let's boycott this conference ENTIRELY because of one country (israel) being mentioned as a human rights violator!!! makes me SICK!!

Steve E, I am assuming you never graduated High School did you!?! You have got to be dumber than the idiots who elected Obama!!! Israel is a bully!?! Israel HAS NEVER started a war in it's history. NON-EUROPEAN Palestinian Jews were the MAJORITY in Palestine up till the very end of the rule of the evil Ottomans. Karl Marx (yes the same guy who co-authored the communist manifesto) as a young reporter for the New York Tribune in 1859 spearheaded a trip to Ottoman Palestine and verified the local census at about 15,000 people. The makeup was 10,000 Palestinian Jews of indigenous and African ancestry. The indigenous could trace their property ownership and history prior to the Babylonian exile. The majority of the Muslim population explosion are NOT ARAB!!! However they and the world call themselves Arab to further the lie that they are the descendent's of the Saladin Invasions and occupations. Fact is most were illegal immigrants who violated both Ottoman and British law as Mexican illegals do today in the US. They came to experience the benefits of the new immigrating wealthy European Zionists who helped the mostly illiterate Palestinian Jewish majority transform the mostly dessert and swamp land (the reason for the low 15,000 population) into prime real estate. Then the grand Mufti of Jerusalem(a full fledged member of the Waffen SS)
modified Egypt's Nasser's Pan Arab-ism movement (the father of Nazism) into Palestinian-ism. The concept was that Palestinians are either Arabs (including Arab Christians), or any Muslim native or not, and NO other indigenous Palestinians exist. In order to prove his point the Mufti inspired the murder of nearly 70,000 Palestinians 50,000 of whom were indigenous Jews, and the other 20,000 where Druze, Bedouins (who actually are ARAB by the way!), and non Arab Christians.

Let's not forget that the Grand Mufti is well known to be the co-author of Hitler's "Final Solution". He went to Germany in the 1920's after being inspired by Hitlers early writings, to plead with Hitler to re-consider his ideas on mass European deportations of Jews, and instead institute efficient schemes of mass murder to prevent those deported Jews from joining their indigo's Palestinian Jews of Palestine.

"The Muslims only hate us because we defend that...". That has to be the dumbest statement you made! The US has NEVER defended Israel in any attacks period!!! We have only held them back from justified self defense. After creation of the state of Israel the US and their European allies left the Israelis to die, and made it a crime punishable by life in prison or the death penalty to provide the new Israeli state with weaponry. They were attacked repeatedly by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia simultaneously! Yet Israel always one. Big bunch of bullies! They even allowed many of the Palestinian Muslim traitors to live on Israeli land and in houses in East Jerusalem (always pre 1950's a Jewish area) stolen from Jews by the Jordanians after they attacked the so called west bank occupying East Jerusalem and the West Bank for nearly 20 years.

Keep in mind ISLAM (that would mean all MUSLIMS) have declare war on the US since it's inception as the greatest nation on earth in 1776. They attacked us with Piracy and demanded the same annual Jizza (extortion tax to allow Non-Muslims to live without fear of murder from Muslims). Jefferson refused to continue paying this tax and it sparked the First and Second Barbary wars against the Muslims of Africa based in modern day Libya. Remember the Marines Hymn "From the shores of Montezuma to Halls of Tripoli...". When Jefferson asked the Tripoli-an ambassador to England why the Muslims are attacking the ships of a nation who never attacked them or any other nation the reply was that it states in the Quran that it is a requirement that Muslims forcibly convert, dismember, bisexually rape, or settle for the Jizza from non-Muslims, and that Muslims who chose to live in peace without the Jizza tax are not REAL Muslims and are violating the will of Allah.

Wake up Steve, MUSLIMS hate ALL non-Muslims! Learn some Arabic and read the REAL Quran and Haddiths not the ones modified for non Muslim consumption. Then you will no the real meaning of the "Satanic Verses". We are under attack from within by REAL terrorist organization like:
CAIR, The Muslim Student Association, The Islamic Society of North America, The Arab Anti Defamation League etc. Our Muslim president invited a well known terrorist supporter, Ingrid Matson (also the current head of the Islamic Society of North America, and a professor of Islamic Studies at the Hartford Seminary) to pray at his inauguration. She said among other things "Ossama Bin Laden's issues with the US are sound, and his philosophy is sound, but his methods are a bit too extreme". Wake the heck up Steve!

The Last Hour will not come before there come forth thirty Dajjals (imposters), each presenting himself as an apostle of Allah.

(Abu Dawood)

The above hadith reminds us of developments in our own day. By taking advantage of the hopes of Muslims and Christians about the second coming of 'Isa (as), a number of deceivers have claimed prophethood and at times caused great suffering.

Experts have noted that there has been a proliferation of so-called messiahs that began to appear in the 1970’s and which has since increased substantially. According to these experts, there are two basic reasons for this increase. First is the collapse of communism, and the other is the possibilities afforded by Internet technology.26

The following excerpts have been selected as examples to help us better understand this phenomenon:

The fiery demise of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, that claimed the lives of David Koresh and at least 74 of his followers…27

Last week at two sites in Switzerland and one in Canada where 53 of Jouret’s followers and their children died. Police in two countries are trying to find out whether the deaths were mass suicide, mass murder or some bizarre combination of the two.28

Sun Myung Moon, founder of the Unification Church, says he is the Messiah of the Second Coming and that his family is the first true family in all history! …The Unification Church was officially founded in 1954 by Moon, who claims that in 1936, when he was 16, ‘Isa (as) appeared to him on a mountainside in Northwestern Korea and told him that God had chosen him for the mission of establishing the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.29

Grim evidence of the worst cult slaughter…Up to1000 followers feared dead as more graves found in Uganda…30

It was an event that sent shock waves worldwide—the worst mass suicide in modern history. More than 900 people, members of a cult, were found clustered together in a South American forest. The dead were followers of Rev. Jim Jones, the leader of the Peoples’Temple in San Francisco.31

The Qur’an also points to the advent of false prophets. One verse pertaining to this topic is the following:

Who could do greater wrong than someone who invents lies against Allah or denies His Signs, or who says, “It has been revealed to me,” when nothing has been revealed to him, or someone who says, “I will send down the same as Allah has sent down”? If you could only see the wrongdoers in the throes of death when the angels are stretching out their hands, saying, “Disgorge your own selves! Today you will be repaid with the punishment of humiliation for saying something other than the truth about Allah, and being arrogant about His Signs.” (Surat al-Anam: 93)

As it is stated in that which follows this verse, these people will surely receive their recompense for the lies they have fabricated.

Thousands of people go to their deaths in obedience to self-proclaimed messiahs. Above, we see a mass grave in Uganda, and on the right, the followers of Jim Jones who had committed mass suicide.

In our day, a number of false prophets have appeared, one after another, each proclaiming himself to be the Messiah. The fact that the signs of the End Times are happening in succession is an extraordinary occurrence that certainly should make everyone think.

There is no doubt that there will be a time when all the lies of all these false prophets will be eradicated. The Prophet (saas) announced that, after the liars have gone, ‘Isa (as) would return.

We have mentioned earlier that the Qur’an tells of ‘Isa (as)’s return to earth, and that Muslims and Christians alike eagerly await this event. There are a few hadiths from the Prophet (saas) that refer to the second coming of ‘Isa (as). The Islamic scholar Shawkani stated that there are 29 hadiths about ‘Isa (as)’s return, and that the information contained in these hadiths could not have been falsified. (Ibn Majah)

There is another important item of information that comes to us through these hadiths. The return of ‘Isa (as) will occur during the second phase of the End Times, and will be an important sign of the Judgment. In this regard, the following hadiths are pertinent:

The Last Hour will not come until you see the descent of ‘Isa (as) son of Maryam (as).

(Muslim)

“By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Maryam (as), ‘Isa (as), will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler.

(Bukhari)

The Hour will not be established until the son of Maryam (as) (i.e. ‘Isa (as)) descends amongst you as a just ruler.

(Bukhari)

The Prophet (saas) tells what ‘Isa (as) will do when he returns:

At the time of his death, 'Isa (as) will have reappeared on this earth for forty years.

(Abu Dawood)

‘Isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will descend, rule for 40 years with the book of Allah and my sunnah, and die.
(Al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Al-Burhan
fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-Zaman)

The Hour will not be established until the son of Maryam (as) (i.e. ‘Isa (as)) descends amongst you as a just ruler.

(Bukhari)

‘isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will be a just judge and just ruler (in my community), break and crush the cross and kill the pig ... The earth will be so filled of peace as a vessel is filled with water. The entire world shall recite and follow one and the same Word and none shall be worshipped except Allah.

(Ibn Majah)

The Hour will not be established until the son of Maryam (as) (i.e. ‘Isa) (as) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs…

(Bukhari)

Therefore, when ‘Isa (as) returns, errant doctrines such as those of the Trinity, the cross and the priesthood, and illicit acts such as eating pork, will be swept away, the Christian world will be saved from its heretical state, and all people will be called to live according to the true religion and moral values contained in the Qur’an.

At this point, there is an important issue we must stop and consider. In the Qur’an and in the hadiths, there is no doubt that ‘Isa (as) will return to earth during the End Times. Today, on the other hand, some Muslims disregard the evident proofs regarding this return, and suggest that it is possible that ‘Isa (as) will return after the Prophet Muhammad (saas) comes. However, Muslims who think such a thing should attempt to interpret the relevant verses and hadiths objectively and without prejudice. And, secondly, there is no contradiction between the fact that Muhammad (saas) is the last Prophet and that ‘Isa (as) will return to earth. When ‘Isa (as) comes for the second time, he will not bring a new religion but will be subject to the true religion communicated by the Qur’an and the Prophet Muhammad (saas).

The great Islamic scholar Imam Rabbani said: "‘Isa (as) will descend from heaven, yet he will follow Muhammad (saas)'s Way” (Imam-i Rabbani, Letters of Rabbani, Volume II, Letter 67); Imam Nawawi said: “… He ('Isa (as)) will come and apply Muhammad (saas)'s way.” (Al Qawl al-Mukhtasar fi 'alamat al-Mahdi al-Muntazar) On this topic; Qadi Iyad said: “'Isa (as) will rule with the rules of Islam and will revive the practices that his people have abandoned.” (Ibn Majah)

The greatest Islamic scholar of the past century, Bediuzzaman Said Nursi have provided some interesting expositions of this matter in his Risale-i Nur Collection. According to Bediuzzaman’s analyses, ‘Isa (as) will return to earth in bodily form in the End Times and will contend and repudiate anti-religious ideologies that represent materialist and naturalist philosophy. Under his leadership, Christians and Muslims will unite and the powerful anti-religious forces will be eradicated. Christianity will be cleansed of its vain beliefs, heresy and its myths and become subject to the Qur’an. Bediuzzaman said that, in making this announcement, the Prophet (saas) relied on the words of Almighty Allah and that, therefore, it would certainly come to pass.32

At this point an important question comes to our attention. How will ‘Isa (as) be recognized? Surely, the clearest indication that it is him who will be in possession of all the features common to a prophet as mentioned in the Qur’an. In addition, he will bring an important sign to indicate that he is ‘Isa (as). When he comes, there will be no one that would have seen ‘Isa (as) before in person and therefore there will be no one to recognize him. None will be able to recognize him by his physical appearance or by the sound of his voice. No one will be able to say that he knew ‘Isa (as) personally, or saw him at such and such a time; no one will have known his family or his relatives. All those who would have known him would have died 2000 years ago. Maryam (as), Zakariyya (as), his disciples, who spent years with him, as well as all those to whom ‘Isa (as) communicated the message of Allah, will have already died. Therefore, there will be none who would have experienced his birth, childhood, youth or adulthood when he comes for the second time. No one will know anything about him.

As we explained in the earlier section of this book, by the command of Allah, “Be,” ‘Isa (as) came into the world without a father. Clearly, after so many centuries, he would have not any surviving relatives. In this regard, Allah compares ‘Isa (as)’s situation with the creation of Adam:

The likeness of ‘Isa in Allah’s sight is the same as Adam. He created him from earth and then He said to him, “Be!” and he was. (Surah Al 'Imran: 59)

This verse reveals that Allah said “Be!” and Adam was created. ‘Isa (as) too was created by this same command. Adam did not have a mother or a father while ‘Isa (as) had only a mother when he came into the world. But, when he comes to the world again for the second time, his mother will not be alive.

Therefore, the confusion caused by the false messiahs who will appear from time to time is rendered ineffective. When ‘Isa (as) comes back to the world again, there will be no opportunity to cast any doubt on the fact that it is him. No one will be able to find any viable reason to say that he cannot be ‘Isa (as). ‘Isa (as) will be recognized by that one characteristic that will separate him from every other person: not a single person in the world will know him.

In conclusion, the information presented here should lead us to recognize that the time of the promises with regard to the coming of ‘Isa (as), and the things he will do, is near. Surely, it is our duty to be best prepared as possible to meet that blessed person who we have been so long waiting for.

Israel cannot "try diplomacy and pray" when the government of Iran (a country that is ten times larger then Israel), and its President makes overt and direct threats against Israel's population.

The Iranian president blusters a lot and talks a lot of smack. But that's all it is because the position of president in Iran is nothing but a figure head. He's a puppet. All the real power lies with the clerics. It's a theocracy. So yes, the Iranian president is an idiot, but he's an inconsequential idiot. His comments warrant a stern rebuke, not an act of war.

If Israel wanted to kill Arabs, it could have easily killed 500,000 of them in Gaza, during the last conflict. The casualties were quite low and civilians were specifically warned to evacuate target areas.

the thousand civies they did kill just don't matter, huh? The latest gaza conflict was once again marked by Israel firing on civilian targets and health facilities. In addition they used white phosphorus as a weapon against at least one school. The claims of deliberate murder of palestinain civilians not only have come from human rights groups like AI but also from Israeli soldiers disgusted by their comrade's actions.

And let's fact it, there would be no conflict and no war, tomorrow, if the Arab/Muslim world simply said "we are standing down. Live and let live."

Right. Remind me who exactly started all this? Hint- it was NOT the Arabs. Before there was a proper Israel Zionist settlers decided to take over the area from the natives and they proceeded to use terrorist tactics to do so, which is what caused the Brits to eventually abandon the area (the soon to be Israeli settlers were using the exact same tactics they condemn today).

Want an example? Remember Yitzhak Shamir? He was Prime Minister of Israel for much of the 80s. He also used to be one of the top people of Lehi. What's Lehi? Why it was a Terrorist group in what would become Palestine. They assassinated a number of British Officials, among them Lord Moyne and Folke Bernadotte. These days the Israeli army has a special ribbon for those former members. Charming isn't it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Lehi_remembered

Prior to the Zionist movement there had been Jews living in the area going all the way back to pre-christian days. They managed to co-exist with the their arab neighbors.

The problem has never been that Jews and Arabs are fundamentally incompatible but that the fundamentally racist notion of a Jewish state taken by force from Arabs understandably rankles some Arabs. Particularly when that Jewish state has aggressively claimed right to and taken land again and again.

My guess is that if Israel attacked Iran's nuclear program, a small number of people would die in Iran. That's because Israel has no fight with the Iranian people and has no desire to target civilians.

*blinks*
You obviously have no familiarity with the Israeli state. These are the same guys where a 13 year old girl accidentally got lost and got too close to a guard tower so they shot at her, and when she ran they continued shooting at her. And when she was down one soldier walked up to her and fired repeatedly into her corpse because the mortally wounded prone girl was "an immediate threat." And then the Israeli courts acquitted him of any wrong doing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4440490.stm

But yeah they totally don't target civilians. That's why the IDF has killed many times more civilians than the Palestinians (who are supposedly targeting Israeli civilians) have.

the laundry list of crimes that occurred just in the latest flare up is long:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932009_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict#Israelis

You may not like Jews. And you may not like Israel. But you cannot deny these simple facts.

I've got no problem with Jews, that vast majority of which are neither Israeli nor necessarily proponents of the state of Israel's methods. Similarly Israel has a goodly number of peaceniks and people who are rightfully horrified by their state's actions. I admire them. Part of my motivation in wanting Israel to change is that their current stance can really only end with genocide by one side or the other. Personally I'd really rather *not* have that happen.

As for your "simple facts," they are completely devoid of actual, you know, fact.