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	<title>Comments on: Worst Holiday Sales in 40 Years</title>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-545366</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-545366</guid>
		<description>Drew:  &quot;Of course a like, or greater number, are created. Such is the nature of job churn. &quot;

Not this f*cking year.

Drew:  &quot;Compare the monthly unemployment rate for Clinton&#039;s full term to that for Bush&#039;s full term. They are indistinguishable.&quot;

Compare job creation figures, or median wages and salaries.  Clinton blow Bush out of the water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drew:  "Of course a like, or greater number, are created. Such is the nature of job churn. "</p>
<p>Not this f*cking year.</p>
<p>Drew:  "Compare the monthly unemployment rate for Clinton's full term to that for Bush's full term. They are indistinguishable."</p>
<p>Compare job creation figures, or median wages and salaries.  Clinton blow Bush out of the water.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-545002</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 20:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-545002</guid>
		<description>saw this on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yocial.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;yocial&lt;/a&gt;.  This is an insane time.  My flailing little 401k dropped to almost half its value.  check this out to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.forbes.com/2008/03/05/richest-people-billionaires-billionaires08-cx_lk_0305billie_land.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;billionaire list&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>saw this on <a href="http://www.yocial.com" rel="nofollow">yocial</a>.  This is an insane time.  My flailing little 401k dropped to almost half its value.  check this out to <a href="http://www.forbes.com/2008/03/05/richest-people-billionaires-billionaires08-cx_lk_0305billie_land.html" rel="nofollow">billionaire list</a></p>
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		<title>By: bob in  fla</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544850</link>
		<dc:creator>bob in  fla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544850</guid>
		<description>On second thought, forget about the followup on Walmart&#039;s stock price, since their stock is up for the day &amp; up significantly for the year. I don&#039;t know where you got the info that Walmart dropped 24%, but it is clearly wrong.

WTF?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On second thought, forget about the followup on Walmart's stock price, since their stock is up for the day &amp; up significantly for the year. I don't know where you got the info that Walmart dropped 24%, but it is clearly wrong.</p>
<p>WTF?</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544832</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544832</guid>
		<description>Drew,

On a non-partisan note, you might enjoy this:

http://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Paper-Ballantine-Readers-Circle/dp/0804119120/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1230777535&amp;sr=8-2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drew,</p>
<p>On a non-partisan note, you might enjoy this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Paper-Ballantine-Readers-Circle/dp/0804119120/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1230777535&amp;sr=8-2" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Paper-Ballantine-Readers-Circle/dp/0804119120/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1230777535&amp;sr=8-2</a></p>
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		<title>By: bob in  fla</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544831</link>
		<dc:creator>bob in  fla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544831</guid>
		<description>No, Steve. You &amp; Bloomberg are both entirely wrong. Sales have not dropped to levels of 40 years ago, as you both state. The percentage decline in sales is the worst in 40 years. Big difference in those statements. Since population has roughly doubled in that time period, sales would have to have been less than half of last years to be as low as they were in 1968, wouldn&#039;t you think? (Of course I mean in inflation adjusted dollars.) The highest estimate I have seen in year to year decline is about 8%.

Times are bad, but they aren&#039;t that bad - at least not yet. But I am nervous about the next few months. You mentioned Wal-mart stock dropping 24%. Last I knew, they were one of a very few retailers whose sales gained slightly this year as well as the only stock on the DJIA which hadn&#039;t lost significant value. Perhaps you might post on the story behind this news?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Steve. You &amp; Bloomberg are both entirely wrong. Sales have not dropped to levels of 40 years ago, as you both state. The percentage decline in sales is the worst in 40 years. Big difference in those statements. Since population has roughly doubled in that time period, sales would have to have been less than half of last years to be as low as they were in 1968, wouldn't you think? (Of course I mean in inflation adjusted dollars.) The highest estimate I have seen in year to year decline is about 8%.</p>
<p>Times are bad, but they aren't that bad - at least not yet. But I am nervous about the next few months. You mentioned Wal-mart stock dropping 24%. Last I knew, they were one of a very few retailers whose sales gained slightly this year as well as the only stock on the DJIA which hadn't lost significant value. Perhaps you might post on the story behind this news?</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544827</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544827</guid>
		<description>Damn Drew, how will I go on if you deny me the pleasure of your company?

Luckily, you don&#039;t even contribute the comic relief element that bitsy does...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn Drew, how will I go on if you deny me the pleasure of your company?</p>
<p>Luckily, you don't even contribute the comic relief element that bitsy does...</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544786</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 00:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544786</guid>
		<description>As I said, I rest my case.  You have shown absolutely no capacity to have an educated discussion on the matter, and I see no evidence that this can or will change.  

Bye-bye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said, I rest my case.  You have shown absolutely no capacity to have an educated discussion on the matter, and I see no evidence that this can or will change.  </p>
<p>Bye-bye.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544662</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544662</guid>
		<description>Drew,

If you want to defend Bush&#039;s record on the economy, have at it. The economy in shambles and deficits that defy the imagination... hell, you have good reason to be proud of your man.

At any rate its not as if anyone besides bithead takes you all that seriously :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drew,</p>
<p>If you want to defend Bush's record on the economy, have at it. The economy in shambles and deficits that defy the imagination... hell, you have good reason to be proud of your man.</p>
<p>At any rate its not as if anyone besides bithead takes you all that seriously :)</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544654</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544654</guid>
		<description>I rest my case, anjin, you have no ability to carry on a reasoned discussion about policy cause and effects wrt the economy.

By the way, Clinton implemented/approved two very significant and positive economic policy initiatives during his term.  (You see, reasonable and intellectually honest people can give credit where it is due, unlike your Pavlovian partisan rants.) However, one was absolutely antithetical to the commentary in your citation, and the second is still criticized by most Democrats.  

Fascinating.

Now, back to your neanderthal grunting:  Clinton gooooooood.  Bush baaaaaaaad.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I rest my case, anjin, you have no ability to carry on a reasoned discussion about policy cause and effects wrt the economy.</p>
<p>By the way, Clinton implemented/approved two very significant and positive economic policy initiatives during his term.  (You see, reasonable and intellectually honest people can give credit where it is due, unlike your Pavlovian partisan rants.) However, one was absolutely antithetical to the commentary in your citation, and the second is still criticized by most Democrats.  </p>
<p>Fascinating.</p>
<p>Now, back to your neanderthal grunting:  Clinton gooooooood.  Bush baaaaaaaad.......</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544651</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544651</guid>
		<description>Sure Drew, Sure. The economy is just great. Bush is a god. Yep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure Drew, Sure. The economy is just great. Bush is a god. Yep.</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544604</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544604</guid>
		<description>Spare me.  The local subject was net job destruction and creation, as the 8 million figure so aptly points out.  And the bigger issue is overall economic performance.  But I understand why you would want to change, and selectively choose, the measurement..........faulty as it is.

If you want to dive into gory detail on jobs reporting, compensation etc you need to take into account things like the growing number of unreported self employed, the growth in comp through  bennies as opposed to wages etc etc.  You, and the column you site obviously have no appetite for real understanding, just partisan puffery.  

For example, in the official statistics, yours truly is not even counted as employed (in fact, I would be accounted for as a job lost!) and yet I&#039;m in the upper 1% of income earners.  Damn that no good George Bush!!  And there are many, many like me.  

I also had to laugh out loud at some of the cause and effect descriptions in your citation, as if such fundamental trends ebbed and flowed in lock step with Presidential policies.  

If you would like to elevate the discussion to something worthwhile, like overal economic performance during the 25 year period from Reagan to Bush, and the globalization policies that produced that performance, let me know.

If not, have fun continueing to polish that bust of Clinton in your living room.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spare me.  The local subject was net job destruction and creation, as the 8 million figure so aptly points out.  And the bigger issue is overall economic performance.  But I understand why you would want to change, and selectively choose, the measurement..........faulty as it is.</p>
<p>If you want to dive into gory detail on jobs reporting, compensation etc you need to take into account things like the growing number of unreported self employed, the growth in comp through  bennies as opposed to wages etc etc.  You, and the column you site obviously have no appetite for real understanding, just partisan puffery.  </p>
<p>For example, in the official statistics, yours truly is not even counted as employed (in fact, I would be accounted for as a job lost!) and yet I'm in the upper 1% of income earners.  Damn that no good George Bush!!  And there are many, many like me.  </p>
<p>I also had to laugh out loud at some of the cause and effect descriptions in your citation, as if such fundamental trends ebbed and flowed in lock step with Presidential policies.  </p>
<p>If you would like to elevate the discussion to something worthwhile, like overal economic performance during the 25 year period from Reagan to Bush, and the globalization policies that produced that performance, let me know.</p>
<p>If not, have fun continueing to polish that bust of Clinton in your living room.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544251</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 07:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544251</guid>
		<description>You know, this is what bothered me about the stimulus plans (among a whole lot of things). If you want to put money in people&#039;s pockets, why not do it a few weeks before Christmas? Considering that it is the biggest time of year for many retailers, and the strong incentives to shop, people were probably as likely to spend the money then as they would ever be. But no, political gridlock . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, this is what bothered me about the stimulus plans (among a whole lot of things). If you want to put money in people's pockets, why not do it a few weeks before Christmas? Considering that it is the biggest time of year for many retailers, and the strong incentives to shop, people were probably as likely to spend the money then as they would ever be. But no, political gridlock . . .</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544197</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 05:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544197</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Compare the monthly unemployment rate for Clinton&#039;s full term to that for Bush&#039;s full term. They are indistinguishable.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Perhaps, but the subject is job creation, and it is easy to see why you would want to change the subject when Bush&#039;s job creation record comes up.

# One of the most important measures of economic well-being is the number of people with jobs. The number of jobs in the economy increased 2.38 percent per year under Clinton, but it has decreased 0.17 percent per year under Bush.9 While it&#039;s clear that the economic downturn in 2001 was not Bush&#039;s fault, the sluggishness of the recovery is unprecedented in the period since the federal government began issuing detailed employment reports in the 1940s. There have been 1.7 million jobs created since September 2003, which may sound like a lot, but that number falls short of the 1.8 million jobs that must be created per year just to match population growth, and it falls far below the 3.7 million jobs that the administration predicted would be created when the president signed his 2003 tax cut into law.10 This slow job growth is largely attributable to both the failure of the administration&#039;s fiscal policies (which targeted tax cuts to stimulate savings rather than spending) and the failure of its trade policies (which have done a poor job of opening foreign markets to spur export growth, and have not created the conditions for an orderly decline in the value of the dollar, which would have helped ease the trade imbalance).11

# Full-time vs. Part-time Jobs12
The change in the number of jobs does not provide a complete picture of employment in the U.S. economy. Not only did the Clinton years produce many more jobs than the Bush years have, but they also produced more full-time jobs compared to part-time jobs. This is an important indicator because in an economic slowdown many displaced and new workers resort to part-time work as a second-choice option. Granted, some people might prefer part-time work because they have children or attend school. But, overall, a decrease in the ratio of full-time to part-time jobs implies that a greater share of workers have less stable work with fewer benefits. The ratio of full-time to part-time work rose under Clinton by 0.11 percent per year, but it has decreased at an annual rate of 1.67 percent since the beginning of 2001. In fact, the ratio of full-time to part-time jobs has not only reversed direction, but as of September 2004 it has fallen below what it was before Clinton took office.

http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/print.cfm?contentid=252964</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Compare the monthly unemployment rate for Clinton's full term to that for Bush's full term. They are indistinguishable.</p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps, but the subject is job creation, and it is easy to see why you would want to change the subject when Bush's job creation record comes up.</p>
<p># One of the most important measures of economic well-being is the number of people with jobs. The number of jobs in the economy increased 2.38 percent per year under Clinton, but it has decreased 0.17 percent per year under Bush.9 While it's clear that the economic downturn in 2001 was not Bush's fault, the sluggishness of the recovery is unprecedented in the period since the federal government began issuing detailed employment reports in the 1940s. There have been 1.7 million jobs created since September 2003, which may sound like a lot, but that number falls short of the 1.8 million jobs that must be created per year just to match population growth, and it falls far below the 3.7 million jobs that the administration predicted would be created when the president signed his 2003 tax cut into law.10 This slow job growth is largely attributable to both the failure of the administration's fiscal policies (which targeted tax cuts to stimulate savings rather than spending) and the failure of its trade policies (which have done a poor job of opening foreign markets to spur export growth, and have not created the conditions for an orderly decline in the value of the dollar, which would have helped ease the trade imbalance).11</p>
<p># Full-time vs. Part-time Jobs12<br />
The change in the number of jobs does not provide a complete picture of employment in the U.S. economy. Not only did the Clinton years produce many more jobs than the Bush years have, but they also produced more full-time jobs compared to part-time jobs. This is an important indicator because in an economic slowdown many displaced and new workers resort to part-time work as a second-choice option. Granted, some people might prefer part-time work because they have children or attend school. But, overall, a decrease in the ratio of full-time to part-time jobs implies that a greater share of workers have less stable work with fewer benefits. The ratio of full-time to part-time work rose under Clinton by 0.11 percent per year, but it has decreased at an annual rate of 1.67 percent since the beginning of 2001. In fact, the ratio of full-time to part-time jobs has not only reversed direction, but as of September 2004 it has fallen below what it was before Clinton took office.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/print.cfm?contentid=252964" rel="nofollow">http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/print.cfm?contentid=252964</a></p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544154</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 03:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544154</guid>
		<description>&quot;Unless, of course, Bush happens to be President.&quot;

Compare the monthly unemployment rate for Clinton&#039;s full term to that for Bush&#039;s full term.  They are indistinguishable.

Of course, Clinton&#039;s term was an &quot;economic miracle.&quot;  And Bush&#039;s was &quot;tough economic times.&quot;  

At least according to the major media........and the sheep who unquestioningly follow them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Unless, of course, Bush happens to be President."</p>
<p>Compare the monthly unemployment rate for Clinton's full term to that for Bush's full term.  They are indistinguishable.</p>
<p>Of course, Clinton's term was an "economic miracle."  And Bush's was "tough economic times."  </p>
<p>At least according to the major media........and the sheep who unquestioningly follow them.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/worst_holiday_sales_in_40_years/comment-page-1/#comment-544145</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29385#comment-544145</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Of course a like, or greater number, are created. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Unless, of course, Bush happens to be President.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Of course a like, or greater number, are created. </p></blockquote>
<p>Unless, of course, Bush happens to be President.</p>
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