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	<title>Comments on: Zogby Numbers Cooked for Clients?</title>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67619</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67619</guid>
		<description>Anderson:

Wow, you are from Miss. ?  I didn&#039;t think that Miss had any democrats left down there. Perhaps 
you took my comment out of context, I said you look at your liberal political views from a left coast point of view. And that still applies wherever you are from. Although you may be from Miss. you still don&#039;t think and act like you know a thing about the central part of the country, Being from Miss, you are from the South and while it may be central, it is still South. And while Miss is a Red State, it makes me wonder where you went wrong. 

Oh well, I guess there some are dinosauers that still remain in the red states in contrast to the herds of them in the Blue States. While you are surrounded in Red, I guess there may still be some hope for you to see the light and not to look at everything through dark sunglasses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anderson:</p>
<p>Wow, you are from Miss. ?  I didn't think that Miss had any democrats left down there. Perhaps<br />
you took my comment out of context, I said you look at your liberal political views from a left coast point of view. And that still applies wherever you are from. Although you may be from Miss. you still don't think and act like you know a thing about the central part of the country, Being from Miss, you are from the South and while it may be central, it is still South. And while Miss is a Red State, it makes me wonder where you went wrong. </p>
<p>Oh well, I guess there some are dinosauers that still remain in the red states in contrast to the herds of them in the Blue States. While you are surrounded in Red, I guess there may still be some hope for you to see the light and not to look at everything through dark sunglasses.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67610</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67610</guid>
		<description>I mistrust 100% of the polls highlighted in the news.  

If a poll is &quot;on-line&quot; you have no idea who filled in the answers.  

I can think of only one research company that recruits for on-line polls in an expensive but trustworthy way to ensure the people on-line are exactly who they say they are.  No one else goes to any substantial effort.

It is the easiest thing in the world to bias the results.  Wording of a question.  Wording of the answers.  Choice of answers.  The way the questions are offered, ie. what&#039;s asked first, second and so on.

It is very, very hard to do good quantitative research and eyewateringly expensive.

Just saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mistrust 100% of the polls highlighted in the news.  </p>
<p>If a poll is "on-line" you have no idea who filled in the answers.  </p>
<p>I can think of only one research company that recruits for on-line polls in an expensive but trustworthy way to ensure the people on-line are exactly who they say they are.  No one else goes to any substantial effort.</p>
<p>It is the easiest thing in the world to bias the results.  Wording of a question.  Wording of the answers.  Choice of answers.  The way the questions are offered, ie. what's asked first, second and so on.</p>
<p>It is very, very hard to do good quantitative research and eyewateringly expensive.</p>
<p>Just saying.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67517</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 18:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67517</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You have confirmed that your comments and Bush hatred is tainted by you âpersonalâ loss of the 2000 and 2004 elections. You were led to falsly think that Kerry was actually going to win while we in the red states mid west knew all along that it would be a Bush Victory&lt;/blockquote&gt;Backwards, Herb; my Bush hatred led me to take the loss of the elections personally.  2000 not so much, since how bad Bush would be was not yet evident.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Your problem Anderson is that you look at your Liberal political views from a left coast point of view and donât know a thing about the thinking of people from the center of our country.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Pretty funny, since my part of the left coast is called &quot;Mississippi.&quot;  Not the center, you&#039;re right.

As I admitted, I only kidded myself into seeing a Kerry victory in the last few days of the campaign, based not least on Zogby.  As it was, a few more votes (or fewer Diebold machines?) in Ohio, and we&#039;d have had our second pop-vote loser in the White House.

(Don&#039;t mistake me for a Kerry fan, btw; I hope he doesn&#039;t run again.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You have confirmed that your comments and Bush hatred is tainted by you âpersonalâ loss of the 2000 and 2004 elections. You were led to falsly think that Kerry was actually going to win while we in the red states mid west knew all along that it would be a Bush Victory</p></blockquote>
<p>Backwards, Herb; my Bush hatred led me to take the loss of the elections personally.  2000 not so much, since how bad Bush would be was not yet evident.</p>
<blockquote><p>Your problem Anderson is that you look at your Liberal political views from a left coast point of view and donât know a thing about the thinking of people from the center of our country.</p></blockquote>
<p>Pretty funny, since my part of the left coast is called "Mississippi."  Not the center, you're right.</p>
<p>As I admitted, I only kidded myself into seeing a Kerry victory in the last few days of the campaign, based not least on Zogby.  As it was, a few more votes (or fewer Diebold machines?) in Ohio, and we'd have had our second pop-vote loser in the White House.</p>
<p>(Don't mistake me for a Kerry fan, btw; I hope he doesn't run again.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Perry vs the World</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67483</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Perry vs the World</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 04:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67483</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m rather skeptical of his online Zogby Interactive polls that he&#039;s been releasing and that makes me a little critical of Zogby.  He knows that no one will realize that they are online polls, and that this methodology is still somewhat suspect.

He&#039;s been releasing polls in the Texas gubernatorial race, which flavor the coverage.  Polls are now news items in themselves, which help influence how journalists and voters see races.  I&#039;m not impressed that he doesn&#039;t more clearly label his online polls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm rather skeptical of his online Zogby Interactive polls that he's been releasing and that makes me a little critical of Zogby.  He knows that no one will realize that they are online polls, and that this methodology is still somewhat suspect.</p>
<p>He's been releasing polls in the Texas gubernatorial race, which flavor the coverage.  Polls are now news items in themselves, which help influence how journalists and voters see races.  I'm not impressed that he doesn't more clearly label his online polls.</p>
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		<title>By: bryan</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67478</link>
		<dc:creator>bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 03:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67478</guid>
		<description>Of course, it&#039;s also possible to produce &quot;good numbers&quot; with loaded questions, like the bi-polar question that leads the CNN article. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;I believe that Wal-Mart is bad for America. It may provide low prices, but these prices come with a high moral and economic cost for consumers.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
vs.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Wal-Mart is good for America. It provides low prices and saves consumers money every day.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Compare that with the results elsewhere in the survey which seem to indicate a much less clear picture:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The Zogby poll also questioned consumers on whether they thought that Wal-Mart was becoming too powerful an economic force in America. Some 33 percent were very concerned, while 20 percent said they were not at all concerned.

Thirty-three percent strongly agreed that Wal-Mart was a retail monopoly that threatened the future health of the U.S. economy, but 35 percent did not agree at all. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

It seems that the number actually concerned about Wal-Mart is closer to 33 percent than 56.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, it's also possible to produce "good numbers" with loaded questions, like the bi-polar question that leads the CNN article. </p>
<blockquote><p>"I believe that Wal-Mart is bad for America. It may provide low prices, but these prices come with a high moral and economic cost for consumers."</p></blockquote>
<p>vs.</p>
<blockquote><p>"Wal-Mart is good for America. It provides low prices and saves consumers money every day."</p></blockquote>
<p>Compare that with the results elsewhere in the survey which seem to indicate a much less clear picture:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Zogby poll also questioned consumers on whether they thought that Wal-Mart was becoming too powerful an economic force in America. Some 33 percent were very concerned, while 20 percent said they were not at all concerned.</p>
<p>Thirty-three percent strongly agreed that Wal-Mart was a retail monopoly that threatened the future health of the U.S. economy, but 35 percent did not agree at all. </p></blockquote>
<p>It seems that the number actually concerned about Wal-Mart is closer to 33 percent than 56.</p>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67475</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67475</guid>
		<description>Anderson:

You have confirmed that your comments and Bush hatred is tainted by you &quot;personal&quot; loss of the 2000 and 2004 elections. You were led to falsly think that Kerry was actually going to win while we in the red states mid west knew all along that it would be a Bush Victory

Your problem Anderson is that you look at your Liberal political views from a left coast point of view and don&#039;t know a thing about the thinking of people from the center of our country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anderson:</p>
<p>You have confirmed that your comments and Bush hatred is tainted by you "personal" loss of the 2000 and 2004 elections. You were led to falsly think that Kerry was actually going to win while we in the red states mid west knew all along that it would be a Bush Victory</p>
<p>Your problem Anderson is that you look at your Liberal political views from a left coast point of view and don't know a thing about the thinking of people from the center of our country.</p>
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		<title>By: spaceman</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67470</link>
		<dc:creator>spaceman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 01:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67470</guid>
		<description>Zogby has been showing his true colors for a few years, a Bush-hater creeping out of the closet.  

So it&#039;s not surprising he&#039;s associated with the latest liberal fetish, Wal-Mart whipping.   Ya know, I have yet to see anyone forced against their will to go Wal-Mart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zogby has been showing his true colors for a few years, a Bush-hater creeping out of the closet.  </p>
<p>So it's not surprising he's associated with the latest liberal fetish, Wal-Mart whipping.   Ya know, I have yet to see anyone forced against their will to go Wal-Mart.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67464</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 23:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67464</guid>
		<description>DeLong goes off on &lt;a href=&quot;http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/06/intellectual_ga.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a fine rant&lt;/a&gt; vs. his bete noir Donald Luskin on the subject of statistics.&lt;blockquote&gt;The whole purpose of the science of statistics is to tell us that ... as long as you can take a &lt;strong&gt;random sample&lt;/strong&gt; of your population, &lt;strong&gt;you can find out an enormous amount about the population from a relatively small number of observations&lt;/strong&gt;. You can find out what proportion of rich people had poor paretns, or what proportion of twenty year olds think they will graduate from college, or pretty much any other average proportion that you want.

&lt;strong&gt;Now the &quot;random sample&quot; part of this is very important&lt;/strong&gt;. But if your sample is random--if the fact that the yes-no pattern of observations so far makes it no more (or less) likely that you next observation will be a &quot;yes&quot;--then the law of large numbers tells us that the sample average you compute &lt;strong&gt;will converge to the true population average at a frighteningly rapid speed&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DeLong goes off on <a href="http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/06/intellectual_ga.html" rel="nofollow">a fine rant</a> vs. his bete noir Donald Luskin on the subject of statistics.<br />
<blockquote>The whole purpose of the science of statistics is to tell us that ... as long as you can take a <strong>random sample</strong> of your population, <strong>you can find out an enormous amount about the population from a relatively small number of observations</strong>. You can find out what proportion of rich people had poor paretns, or what proportion of twenty year olds think they will graduate from college, or pretty much any other average proportion that you want.</p>
<p><strong>Now the "random sample" part of this is very important</strong>. But if your sample is random--if the fact that the yes-no pattern of observations so far makes it no more (or less) likely that you next observation will be a "yes"--then the law of large numbers tells us that the sample average you compute <strong>will converge to the true population average at a frighteningly rapid speed</strong>.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67456</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 21:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67456</guid>
		<description>Sgt Fluffy:  When you&#039;re cooking up some chili, do you have to taste the whole pot before you know whether it needs more Tabasco?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sgt Fluffy:  When you're cooking up some chili, do you have to taste the whole pot before you know whether it needs more Tabasco?</p>
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		<title>By: Sgt Fluffy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67455</link>
		<dc:creator>Sgt Fluffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 21:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67455</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve gotten to the point were I don&#039;t trust any polls, even the ones that are positive towards the president.  I really don&#039;t trust something that only asks say 1000 people out of millions their opinion and tout it as accurate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've gotten to the point were I don't trust any polls, even the ones that are positive towards the president.  I really don't trust something that only asks say 1000 people out of millions their opinion and tout it as accurate.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/zogby_numbers_cooked_for_clients/comment-page-1/#comment-67454</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 21:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12939#comment-67454</guid>
		<description>Zogby actually had my hopes up on Kerry; I had resigned myself to his loss until 2 or 3 days before the election, then Zogby gave me hope.

We are &lt;i&gt;so&lt;/i&gt; through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zogby actually had my hopes up on Kerry; I had resigned myself to his loss until 2 or 3 days before the election, then Zogby gave me hope.</p>
<p>We are <i>so</i> through.</p>
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