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Is Barack Obama An American Citizen?

For those of you interested in the “Birther” controversy, I’ve written a lengthy philosophic defense of the Birthers at Heretical Ideas. Here’s a quick excerpt:

There is no question that the evidence points to the conclusion that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and is therefore a “natural-born citizen.”

No question, that is, if you accept the dominant paradigm of metaphysical realism. That is, the idea that things exist independent of the mind and that those things are perceivable and knowable. Moreover, those who insist that Barack Obama is an American citizen also rely on philosophic naturalism—the idea that reality is subject to objective, knowable natural laws that can’t be tampered with.

However, if one rejects these two philosophic concepts, it’s quite easy to demonstrate that Barack Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States and is therefore constitutionally ineligible to be President of the United States.

Related Posts:

About Alex Knapp
Alex Knapp writes about pretty much everything under the sun, including politics, art, religion, philosophy, sports, music, culture, and science.

Comments

  1. Nicely done

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  2. Derrick says:

    I see what you did!

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  3. Zelsdorf Ragshaft III says:

    Alex, I was born in Walla Walla, Washington. Way back in 1946. Even back then they issued a Birth Certificate. On the back of that certificate are my feet prints. Also on that document is the name of the Doctor who delivered me. I suggest that document is proof I was born in the USA. Obama has only been able or willing to produce something called a certificate of live birth, from the state of Hawaii. No name of hospital, or Doctor who attended. There is a long list of things Obama cannot or will not produce to show publicly. School records, client lists etc, etc. His fathers mother claims she attended the birth of Barack Hussein Obama Jr. who she said was born in Mombasa, Kenya. Surely the voice of an eye witness is as valid as a document which only states the obvious. Obama was born. McCain had no problem producing a birth certificate to prove his citizenship. But you want to take the word of a prov-en liar. That is about as smart as that Harvard Professor yelling foul things about a cops mother, calling him a racist in public at the top of his lungs and wondering why he gets arrested. Proves you just cannot educate the stupid out of some people. That is a race neutral statement.

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  4. Zelsdorf,

    The Certification Of Live Birth that Obama made available to the press last year is the only birth record that the state of Hawaii releases:

    http://bit.ly/CnB5t

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  5. Ken says:

    Zelsdorf,
    The state will certainly release the long-form birth record but only with the approval of the person. Barack Obama could allow this easily but has spent a great deal of money in legal fights to keep the original vault copy sealed.

    If you are sincere, please review:

    http://www.obamacitizenshipfacts.org/

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  6. Ken says:

    Sorry but I meant for my previous post to be directed to Doug Mataconis.

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  7. Ken,

    Under the law, the document that Obama released is prima facie proof that he was born in Honolulu Hawaii on August 4, 1961. It would be sufficient for him to use to obtain a driver’s license. It would be sufficient for him to use to obtain a passport. Heck, under the ridiculous bill that a few wacko Republicans are passing around Congress right now, it would be sufficient proof of his birth to qualify him to run for President.

    There is no credible evidence to suggest that the COLB is either a forgery or that the information it contains is untrue.

    Case closed.

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  8. PD Shaw says:

    Of course there is no way to know whether Obama is a “natural born citizen.” That’s an undefined, ambiguous term, whose insertion in the Constitution remains mysterious and subject of speculation. Birthers want the Courts to intervene to define the term in such a way to defeat a democratic election. There is a term for such people and it’s not conservative.

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  9. PD,

    It’s true that the Constitution doesn’t explicitly define what natural born citizen means, but there is plenty of evidence to support the assertion that what they meant is someone born in the United States or it’s territories who is not subject to the jurisdiction of a foreign nation — meaning that a child of, say, the British Ambassador does not automatically become an American citizen if they happen to be born at George Washington University Hospital, but that anyone else born in the United States would regardless of the citizenship of their parents.

    The Birthers, on the other hand, rely on the writings of an obscure Swiss philosopher whose major work wasn’t even translated into English until ten years after the Constitution was written to support their assertion that natural born citizen only applies to someone born in the US to parents who are both US citizens. Of course, there have been several Presidents who have served who wouldn’t qualify under this definition, including Andrew Jackson who had two non-citizen immigrant parents at the time of his birth.

    And that’s why the birth certificate doesn’t matter to them, really.

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  10. Alex:

    Very well-reasoned. I can’t believe I totally missed the possible Loki involvement.

    But then, as Monty Python did not used to say, “No one ever expects Loki.”

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  11. Furhead says:

    Well, I think we can safely ignore Zelsdorf’s opinions from now on, as he’s had two big strikes in two days.

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  12. Alex Knapp says:

    Ken,

    Don’t even bother trying to convince Doug. He will try to confuse you by arguing against your website by making claims like the Supreme Court ruled that any person born in the United States is a natural born citizen regardless of their parent’s citizenship in the case US v. Wong Kim Ark.

    No doubt he will also, though a lot of hand-waving, demonstrate that U.S. law does not allow for minors to relinquish their citizenship.

    He might also mention that Obama cannot be a dual-citizen, because he would have had to claim his Kenyan citizenship by age 21, which he failed to do.

    Ken, you and I know that all of these things are only relevant if there is some sort of objective reality that we can all point to and understand. However, if we adopt relative conceptual frameworks, it’s easy to show that Obama is not a citizen because we can ignore facts that don’t fit into that framework.

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  13. odograph says:

    But then, as Monty Python did not used to say, “No one ever expects Loki.”

    I believe they did say it, in the episode where Sarah Palin guest-stared.

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  14. bystander says:

    Two local Hawaiian newspapers carried a birth announcement of Obama’s birth. http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php
    What … did some liberal conspirator climb into a secret time-machine and go back and place the announcement? Or was there a different Barack Obama born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961?

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  15. DavidL says:

    I have seen images purported to be of the Honolulu paper announcine the birth of a san Barack to Mr. and Mrs. Barack Obama. It does seem that Obama was born in the United States.

    Yet the birth certificate dispute could be easily resolved if Obama would but produce of a copy of his birth certificate, which he has persisently refused to do. The reasonable assumption is that Obama is hiding something.

    Just what Obama is hiding, I do not know. Were his parents married? Was his father a citizen? The one has also refused to release his college transcripts. Could BO’s birth seccrets be the he refuses release his college records?

    We know less about Obama than any other person ever elected president.

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  16. Ken says:

    Doug,

    The Hawaii birth is interesting and should have been vetted more by the media. However, the more interesting legal question is the “natural born citizen” requirement.

    These eligibility issues surfaced and were marginally vetted during the democratic primary campaign. They never fully resolved with any clarity. I recall the explanation for the lack of evidenciary proof by producing of the vault copy was more about an unwillingness to do it (ie. privacy concerns) and not what Hawaii is saying in 2009 about an inability to produce it (ie. birth records from 1908 on were converted to computer and the paper records destroyed).

    Yes – many Obama supporters will claim anyone pursuing eligibility certification of a candidate wears a tin hat. However, this was not something created by conservatives but the Clinton campaign first brought it up. I think the Constitution means something – whether it impacted McCain or Obama as the possible president.

    What do you think of Obama’s admitting to be under British law at birth and its impact to him being a natural born citizen? See link below. I think this lawyer provides a very cogent explantion of the legal points.

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/obama-presidential-eligibility-an-introductory-primer/

    No one wants to overturn an election. What is a disgrace is that the qualification process was not taken seriously by election officials prior to the national election. I think SCOTUS did not entertain this case because of the explosive ramification it may have created or perhaps it was something the lower courts (state level) should have dealt with. SCOTUS still stinging from involvement with Bush-Gore in 2000. We may never know.

    PD Shaw: I didn’t want SCOTUS to “define the term in such a way to defeat a democratic election”. I wanted them to review the evidence and interpret the Constitution.

    Laws mean something. Had they come back and said Obama was a natural born citizen, it would have put this issue to rest. Now, we continue to have questions, anxiety and political conflict. My view is that is was important enough to clarify. What could be more important than confirming the candidate running for office is eligible. Who can show this was ever done in the 2008 election? What can of worms have we opened for future elections?

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  17. Brian Knapp says:

    What … did some liberal conspirator climb into a secret time-machine and go back and place the announcement?

    I think it’s obvious that they did.

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  18. Steve Plunk says:

    I firmly believe Obama to be a natural born citizen. I don’t understand why he continues to withhold documents to put this controversy to rest. Like a child holding a hand behind the back the refusal to release any requested documents only feeds suspicions of something not being right. How about explaining that behavior Alex.

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  19. Alex Knapp says:

    Steve,

    He has released all legal documents sufficient to prove his citizenship. Why is that not enough?

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  20. Ken,

    Please provide evidence to support your apparent assertion that the Founding Fathers intended “natural born citizen” in the manner that the link you provided says it should be.

    Given that assertion, do you believe that Andrew Jackson, James Buchanan, Chester Alan Arthur and Herbert Hoover were Constitutionally eligible to serve as President given the fact that they each had at least one parent who was not an American citizen at the time they were born ?

    How do you reconcile your definition of “natural born citizen” with the plain meaning of the 14th Amendment ?

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  21. PD Shaw says:

    Isn’t Chester Arthur’s status as a “natural born citizen” far more problematic interesting than Obama’s?

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  22. anjin-san says:

    I don’t understand why he continues to withhold documents to put this controversy to rest.

    Because there is no controversy. Just some nut jobs and people who are desperate to try and damage Obama any way possible…

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  23. Triumph says:

    Is Barack Obama An American Citizen?

    No–even if he were, he would be a liberal without rights to call hisself “American.”

    Please don’t discount those who ask tough questions of Hussein. Any rational person would understand that they argument be spot-on.

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  24. Jim Henley says:

    Why does this site let people spoof Triumph’s ID to post ridiculous shit in his name? It’s disrespectful to the real killerscommenter.

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  25. Alex Knapp says:

    PD Shaw –

    Chester A. Arthur was a Republican and a Baptist and therefore an American. QED.

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  26. Gustopher says:

    don’t understand why he continues to withhold documents to put this controversy to rest. Like a child holding a hand behind the back the refusal to release any requested documents only feeds suspicions of something not being right. How about explaining that behavior Alex.

    I can think of two good reasons.

    First, the Birthers wouldn’t believe that such a document is real anyway. But I don’t think that is the main reason.

    Second, by not releasing it, he gives the Birthers hope that there is something there that is being hidden. This keeps a bizarre, radical, fringe chunk of the Republican base focused on some completely safe non-issue, and away from everything else in his life.

    The birth certificate “controversy” is flypaper for nut job opposition.

    Crazy people saying that there are still questions about his citizenship are easy for the rest of the country to identify and ignore. Crazy people saying that there are still questions about some obscure event in Chicago that may or may not show he is corrupt.

    And, because the Birthers are fellow travelers with the more reasonable opposition, it makes it easy to tar the entire Republican Party as a bunch of mouth breathing lunatics. Oppose healthcare reform? Well, so does this mouth breather Birther who calls Obama a Kenyan Socialist Fascist.

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  27. An Interested Party says:

    And, because the Birthers are fellow travelers with the more reasonable opposition, it makes it easy to tar the entire Republican Party as a bunch of mouth breathing lunatics.

    Oh I’m sure that the president hopes that the Birthers become as prominent and well-known as possible…if someone like Zelsdorf Ragshaft III becomes the face of the opposition, it really is like shooting fish in a barrel…hell, hopefully Sarah Palin will champion their cause…

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  28. mw says:

    Thanks Alex. This explains so much. One question…

    Does not the notion that President Obama is promoting his policies as “Fiscally Responsible” while doubling the national debt in five years and tripling it in 10 mean that the President himself has embraced “Cognitive Realism” as a guiding philosophy? And since he shares this philosophical framework with the birthers, should he not also accept the birthers conceptual framework where he is not a citizen, and simply resign? Just sayin…

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  29. Matt says:

    I was born in 1980 in vermilion county Illinois. Since I was planning to move to Texas I went to the county clerk’s office to get a certified birth certificate. What they gave me was a certificate of live birth. When I asked why it wasn’t a birth certificate the clerk told me those were just ceremonial from the hospital and had no legal standing. So apparently I too am not an American citizen…

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  30. yonason says:

    Obama is spending millions to keep not only the vault copy of his COB hidden, but a LOT more as well.

    “Natural born” isn’t mysterious.

    The argument that there is a chance he MIGHT be “natural born” when so much evidence suggests he’s not (mother too young to confer citizenship at his birth, and father not American citizen, and relatives who claim he was born in Kenya, etc.,) is the way con-men talk.

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  31. Depart the country, usurper !

    Speaking of which, did anyone see Chris Matthews drag G. Gordon Liddy’s bloody body through the streets over this issue last night ?

    http://belowthebeltway.com/2009/07/23/chris-matthews-reduces-birther-g-gordon-liddy-to-a-blithering-idiot/

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  32. gawaine says:

    Imagine the chain of events here. Somehow – even though they haven’t gotten four Supreme Court justices to agree to hear the case, they find four that will, followed by five that agree. President Obama steps down.

    Immediately, the news story is about how the Republicans have “stolen another election” through the Supreme Court. (Yes, there are still people who think that about 2000). All of the stupid stuff he’s done in the first eighth of his first term is forgotten – former President Obama is just so darn likeable, and the news coverage would show him and Michelle adapting to life outside of the White House again.

    President Biden appoints Secretary Clinton as Vice President. With no one paying attention to other political news, they get the bills passed that they’ve been trying to pass all summer, and on the wave of public outrage that accompanies the “theft” of the presidency, they push through a constitutional amendment that makes it clear that Obama can run again. He does, and after President Clinton’s two years in office (following President Biden’s unfortunate scandal involving a live goat, an Amtrak sleeper car, and a Ukranian actress), Obama gets another eight. Twelve years from now, the conservatives have fewer votes than ever to get things done, with the addition of 14 new senators (for the 5 new states carved out of neighborhoods in and around LA, the one formed by retrogressing DC to Maryland and then splitting it out as a separate state, and South Florida).

    I think that’s at least as plausible as any scenario where the success of the birthers leads to people who voted for Obama thoughtfully agreeing that the fringe group was right to push for the release of a different form of birth certificate than anyone else, and elect a bunch of true conservatives like John McCain into higher office.

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  33. Boyd says:

    Speaking as someone who believes that President Obama is going to leave the US in much worse condition than when he became President…

    …I’m glad for the Birther controversy. It helps rational people identify that particular subset of lunatics.

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  34. Matt says:

    There is NO other form of proof of birth. There is NO such thing as a birth certificate in my case or Obama’s case. The COLB is all we have and it’s recognized by the federal govt as a COB..

    yonason is a classic example of the birthers. He takes one mistranslation incident and turns it into multiple relatives saying it. One person seeing Elvis is suddenly turned into hundreds. Sorry buddy but being born here was sufficient for natural borne status..

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  35. gawaine says:

    @Matt – Good point on the certificate of live birth vs. birth certificate. They wouldn’t accept my Mom’s hospital birth certificate for her passport application, while my certificate of live birth is sufficient for my DoD Common Access Card.

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  36. PD Shaw says:

    I’ve often wondered who was the first president that would have been able to produce a birth certificate?

    From my dabbling in genealogy, I usually don’t see birth certificates before 1880, and even then compliance and recordkeeping seems uneven until 1910 or so. John F. Kennedy?

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  37. gawaine says:

    @yonason – What do you mean “mother too young to confer citizenship?” That’s crazy talk. Do you mean that children born to teenage pregnancies aren’t US citizens? What citizenship do they have, then?

    There may be an argument about whether or not he meets the constitutional requirement, but barring time-travelling forgers, there shouldn’t be one about whether or not he’s a US citizen. If your parents are US citizens, so are you. If you’re born on US soil, so are you.

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  38. Boyd says:

    @gawaine

    When I was researching this last year at the time I first became aware of the controversy, I found that US law stated that a child born on foreign soil whose mother was under 18 (I think) did not have citizenship conferred on him through parentage.

    So there is some basis in fact in that part, and could conceivably be used as a valid argument. Well, if it weren’t for that pesky bit about Hawaii being in the United States.

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  39. yonason says:

    Watch as Chris Matthews reduces himself to a blithering idiot. I’ve also seen him lie, and be cornered by people a lot swifter than what Liddy appears to be. Matthews is also in the tank for Obama, so he’s not exactly “objective.”

    I wouldn’t use him to prove the grass is green, let alone rely on his political pontifications.

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  40. What Matthews does is demonstrate how easy it is to dismantle birther arguments to the point where they look like complete idiots.

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  41. Boyd says:

    But if Chris Matthews says that grass is green, he’s still correct, even if he’s Chris Matthews.

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  42. ggr says:

    What … did some liberal conspirator climb into a secret time-machine and go back and place the announcement? Or was there a different Barack Obama born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961?

    Of course not, there are no time machines. They just hitched along with Loki when he did the time-warp thing.

    Pretty amusing article.

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  43. yonason says:

    Yes, Boyd, Hawaii is a part of the US. BUT, we still have no proof he was born there, and a COLB is not a COB. It isn’t “proven” until you have definite information, not merely a possibility. That is the definition of “proof,” as in “beyond all shadow of doubt.” Also, see the ref I gave above for all the OTHER info he’s not providing, from which we could find out what he declared himself to be in the past.

    Besides, when he was living in Indonesia he was registered as an Indonesian and as a Muslim. (found here.) So, even if he was “natural born” before that, he probably would have lost his USA citizenship as a result.

    I’m not saying he’s for sure not American, just that I don’t know, and I have a right to, and as he is Constitutionally required to prove.

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  44. yonason says:

    But if Chris Matthews says that grass is green, he’s still correct, even if he’s Chris Matthews. — Boyd

    You can only say that because you have reliable independent evidence. He could just be right accidentally.

    The bottom line is that if I have to check everything someone says because they are highly biased and/or often wrong, I cannot use anything they say to support my position. There are a number of “conservative” sites I don’t use anymore because I’ve been burned by them, some only once. And the only time I bring proof from a Lefty is when using them as a ‘hostile witness’.

    If your standards of “proof” are so weak that you will accept any evidence, just because it agrees with your preconceptions (unless those preconceptions are already WELL founded), then you know nothing with any reasonable degree of certainty.

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  45. Boyd says:

    None are so blind as those that will not see.

    If you think that a Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth (or Certification of Live Birth, or Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, for that matter) isn’t legal proof of birth at the time and place indicated therein, your willful disbelief will never be overcome, regardless of the evidence.

    Again, I firmly believe that Barack Obama is bad for the US, and wish he’d never been elected, but I’ll never understand the willful ignorance and stubborn illogic of Birthers.

    As I said, at least this topic helps us to recognize this particular group of lunatics.

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  46. yonason,

    Your argument about the legal validity of the COLB have been addressed and refuted by myself and other commenters here several times already. You either accept the reality that (1) the COLB is the only verification of birth that Hawaii issues and (2) that the COLB is legally sufficent for all purposes for which a birth certificate is required, or you do not.

    As for the Indonesia issue, you are no doubt aware that Obama was a minor when his mother married Leo Sotero and moved to Indonesia. Which brings up three points

    (1) Under applicable US law at the time, and today, the only way Obama could have lost his citizenship is if he had formally renounced it upon reaching age 18; his adoption by a foreign national would have no impact on his citizenship status.

    (2) Under applicable Indonesian law at the time, Obama was not eligible for Indonesian citizenship because he was an US citizen and Indonesian law does not grant citizenship to children who are citizens of other nations.

    (3) Even if any of the above were untrue, the question of whether Obama was a “natural born citizen” was settled when he was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. Nothing can change that.

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  47. On the back of that certificate are my feet prints. Also on that document is the name of the Doctor who delivered me. I suggest that document is proof I was born in the USA. Obama has only been able or willing to produce something called a certificate of live birth, from the state of Hawaii. No name of hospital, or Doctor who attended.

    That’s great for Washington. On the other hand, my Pennsylvania “Certification of Birth” has no footprints, no mention of the doctor or hospital involved, no signatures (excepting the preprinted one on the paper the certificate was typed on), and wasn’t even issued until five years after the listed date of birth.

    So I guess no one in Pennsylvania is a US citizen either?

    Just because Washington chose a particular format for its documents doesn’t mean every other state did as well.

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  48. yonason says:

    I can’t vouch for this source, but if what it says is true, those “birth announcements” start looking pretty suspicious. I would like to see it developed, but it seems the MSM is more concerned with covering false accusations about Palin than anything of any real importance.

    Also, when you want a passport and they ask for proof of citizenship, don’t bring a copy of your birth announcement. It’s not a legal document.

    Anyone who doesn’t care about “legal,” and is satisfied what Obama reads off his teleprompter, deserves what he gets. Unfortunately, the rest of us are stuck with his folly.

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  49. Herb says:

    Question for Yonason and other birthers:

    When did you become the arbiters of what constitutes citizenship?

    Obama’s credentials have seemed to satisfy every entity that matters. He has a drivers license, a passport, and a voting record. He has also been educated and employed, and now he is President of the United States. Before that, he was a United States Senator.

    Now I understand that you are not satisfied with the status of his citizenship documents, so I ask…who the hell are you?

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  50. yonason says:

    Doug Mataconis

    Give the refs where you did that, and I’ll read them when I get back. Thanks, and have a nice weekend.

    PS – even if it turns out that he WAS born here, I want to see what he’s hiding on that and other documents that every other credible person of his stature (that I’m aware of) allows into the public record (AGAIN, see the ref I posted above about what he is hiding).

    Something’s rotten about this, and pretending otherwise isn’t helping.

    Obama is hiding something, and I want to know what it is.

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  51. Everything I mentioned is cataloged, with references, here:

    http://bit.ly/12BAoc

    And just because you’re not satisfied doesn’t mean that a real controversy exists.

    Barack Obama is a natural born citizen.

    He’s President of the United States.

    Accept that fact, and oppose him based on policies not nonsense.

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  52. Matt says:

    Yes, Boyd, Hawaii is a part of the US. BUT, we still have no proof he was born there, and a COLB is not a COB.

    Hello are you there? What part of “There is no such thing as a COB for Obama and I” that you don’t get? I can’t get a COB cause Vermilion county in the state of Illinois does NOT give out COBs only COLBs. I can’t imagine that only one county in this country does this either.

    It isn’t “proven” until you have definite information, not merely a possibility. That is the definition of “proof,” as in “beyond all shadow of doubt.” Also, see the ref I gave above for all the OTHER info he’s not providing, from which we could find out what he declared himself to be in the past.

    It’s more then proven by his certified COLB. When the state certifies the COLB as valid there’s nothing more to prove..

    Besides, when he was living in Indonesia he was registered as an Indonesian and as a Muslim. (found here.) So, even if he was “natural born” before that, he probably would have lost his USA citizenship as a result.

    That’s pretty much a bullshit thing. In reality a small fudge on a school application does not equate rescinding citizenship of the USA. Only a bigot would care about the Muslim part.

    I’m not saying he’s for sure not American, just that I don’t know, and I have a right to, and as he is Constitutionally required to prove.

    Yet you keep arguing over and over that Obama isn’t.. Sadly you just can’t get over the fact that Obama HAS proved his citizenship as constitutionally required..

    Also, when you want a passport and they ask for proof of citizenship, don’t bring a copy of your birth announcement. It’s not a legal document.

    True but my COLB was more then enough to get a passport..

    Anyone who doesn’t care about “legal,” and is satisfied what Obama reads off his teleprompter, deserves what he gets. Unfortunately, the rest of us are stuck with his folly.

    MSM is more concerned with covering false accusations about Palin

    It all makes sense… You’re one of those hopeless Palin bots..

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  53. yonason says:

    “When did you become the arbiters of what constitutes citizenship?”

    Not me, but American law. I gave a ref above where a lawyer defines it. Attacking me and my credibility is one of those “logical fallacies” you may have heard of. Read what the lawyer says, and criticize him on the facts, …if you can.

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  54. yonanson,

    Just because the person you cite is a lawyer doesn’t mean they’re right, especially considering none of the lawyers that are involved in this seem to be capable of drafting a coherent pleading.

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  55. yonason says:

    Sorry, Matt, but it would appear that Hawaii itself says you are wrong.

    Gotta go. Enjoy.

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  56. yonason,

    The link you provided proves nothing.

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  57. Matt says:

    Ignore all my points and then throw out a link that doesn’t even say what you’re implying it does. If anything your link further proves that Hawaii was giving out COLBs NOT COBs.

    I can’t believe you’re even disputing my COLB…

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  58. Matt,

    Come on, admit it, you’re not an American citizen. And you’re a secret Muslim like Obama.

    Right ? 😉

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  59. Matt says:

    BTW if Obama’s COLB had been amended in the manner listed in your link his COLB would look a lot different with his home country being listed and such..

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  60. Matt says:

    I’m a secret nazi/communist/liberal/wingnut/conservative/fascist/ but no muslim in there so far..

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  61. Matt,

    The other thing that yonason might not know is that the law which allowed someone to register a foreign birth in Hawaii didn’t go into effect until 20 years after Obama was born and, according to the HI Dept. of Health, has never been used.

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  62. Zelsdorf Ragshaft III says:

    For all of you who think I am some kind of nut case for stating plain truth. I refer to my statement about education and intelligence. I did not take sides on the issue. What I states is I have a birth certificate. John McCain has a birth certificate. The only one who seems to be hiding theirs is hiding a whole bunch of stuff. Hillary had to produce her client list (even if it took a while). Obama gets a pass. Why not school reoords? You all excepted this POS at face value and now we know what we got. An egotistic, spoiled, Marxist who thinks he is the one we have been waiting for. I am waiting. I am waiting for the Tax and spend, constitution breaking, Saul Alinsky radical to run for reelection or get impeached. Which ever comes first. Where does the POTUS get the authority to buy and run and auto industry? Anjin?? Anjin??

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  63. Zelsdorf,

    The certificate the Obama HQ provided is what you get if you request a birth document from the state of Hawaii. If that’s not good enough for you, that’s your problem. The man has fulfilled all the legal requirements. End of story.

    Now go find a real issue. Surely that’s not too difficult, with this administration?

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  64. Penny says:

    Gentlemen – Obama’s citizenship has been proven to the people who’s opinion matters most, the American voters. This birther thing is stupid and waste of conservatives’ time, money and emotional energy. Anything else he may or may not be hiding is also irrelevant. The election is over and he won.

    Attack him on his policies. If you can.

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  65. Matt says:

    Zelsdorf Ragshaft III I keep informing you of the fact that I cannot personally get a birth certificate because my county in Illinois DOESN’T give out birth certificates but only COLBs. Yet you continue to ignore the obvious truth since it doesn’t jive with your preconceived notions..

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  66. PD Shaw says:

    There is nothing in the Constitution that requires a candidate to prove anything. The candidate doesn’t have to produce a birth certificate.

    Not all Constitutional provisions contain terms that are subject to judicial standards. There are political questions entrusted to the people and/or the legislatures to decide. The voters had enough knowledge about Obama’s exotic past to decide for themselves whether he was sufficiently attuned to American values or a subject of foreign power influence.

    Rule of law principles also require that issues be raised in a timely manner in advance of the election. Were even one of these lawsuits timely brought upon publication of the ballot?

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  67. sam says:

    @Zels

    On the back of that certificate are my feet prints

    How do we know they’re your “feet prints”? In fact, how do we know you’re even human and not a really, really stupid Turing machine?

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  68. floyd says:

    The salient point is… Will he be the only citizen after he makes the rest of us Subjects?

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  69. floyd says:

    Who cares where he’s from? It’s the power of celebrity that mesmerizes his followers not the rule of law.

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  70. hcantrall says:

    I recently had to get a copy of my birth certificate because my original had gotten misplaced somewhere over the last 38 years. I wrote to Orange County, California and they sent me a new one. It is a photocopy on special paper with the raised seal etc to make it all official and it says at the top Certificate of Live Birth. So even in 1971 that’s what California issued as well.
    This really is ridiculous, I don’t agree with Obama’s policies either but I don’t believe he’s a non-citizen Muslim infiltrating our government. By the way, I thought our country was founded on religious freedom, so what if he is/was a Muslim?

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  71. Drew says:

    So I just had to go to see my birth certificate. No feet prints. Just a note apparently put on by the attending nurse: “this one’s bad to the bone……..” b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-bad………

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  72. In fact, how do we know you’re even human and not a really, really stupid Turing machine?

    This comment thread isn’t a political debate: it’s a psychological case history.

    The funny part is so many rational (and some funny) people actually trying to talk these loons out of their lunacy.

    Guys, if you manage to convince a Birther your next stop should be skid row where you can reason with the guys who push shopping carts and take their orders straight from God.

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  73. sam says:

    Well, Michael, I hope you don’t think I was trying to convince Zelsdorf of anything.

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  74. sam says:

    Well, Michael, I hope you don’t think I was trying to convince Zelsdorf of something.

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  75. samuel the spamfilter caught says:

    damn proxy, somthing, anything, whatever.

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  76. tom p says:

    G Gordon Liddy… Say hello to Mr. Alzheimers.

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  77. An Interested Party says:

    G Gordon Liddy… Say hello to Mr. Alzheimers.

    Looking at that interview, it is obvious that Liddy has reached a point where he couldn’t break his way out of the geriatric ward of his local hospital…

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  78. Franklin says:

    Now that’s not nice, fellas. But yeah, I’ve never listened to Liddy before … is he always like that?

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  79. sam says:

    Now that’s not nice, fellas. But yeah, I’ve never listened to Liddy before … is he always like that?

    Shoulda seen him when he did have all his out-of-round marbles. This is the guy whom someone else had to stop before he tried to assassinate a journalist who’d pissed off Nixon.

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  80. G.A.Phillips says:

    Attack him on his policies. If you can.

    lol……..

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  81. G.A.Phillips says:

    Guys, if you manage to convince a Birther your next stop should be skid row where you can reason with the guys who push shopping carts and take their orders straight from God.

    lol, Harry thats good, what do you think about them working with people who think they can change the weather by taxing and us and outlawing plastic bags?

    How about with people who believe we should put some special evolution juice in the drinking water to properly control the population so it will be the right number for this period in time…

    Or maybe with the poor fools who worship a dumb dude with a nice smile from Hawaii?

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  82. odograph says:

    The only problem with Alex’s fishing expedition, trawling his own readership, is that he finds what lives on the bottom.

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  83. An Interested Party says:

    I remember a little while back when James put up a post about Sarah Palin retiring that there were quite a number of comments, just like on this thread…I believe it was Drew who whined about the large number of comments and told people to shut up and get a life…funny how when we have this ridiculous Birther movement as a topic, the shoe is on the other foot…

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  84. Zelsdorf Ragshaft III says:

    I like that. Hawaii does not give out copies of birth certificates. I guess this is not a special case. This President does not have to prove anything, read anything or even speak anything like truth and most of those who post here believe him. If you are proven a liar, everything you have to say or have said becomes questionable. You all can accept what ever this President lets you see about this issue. If you believe what you get to see, you do not understand the capablity of power at the level the President wields it. I really don’t care wheather or not he was born in Hawaii or Kenya, it looks like he gave up something which does not show which hospital he was born in or what doctor attended. Hawaii could and would release copies of the documents if Obama said to do so, but he will not. I just ask why? Remember how good the Dan Rather docs looked to most people? Could not happen here huh?

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  85. Matt says:

    G.A.Philllips is such a special kind of dumb I am now convinced he’s just a troll in the similar vein as Floyd.

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  86. Matt says:

    Zelsdorf Ragshaft III being a close third..

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  87. Matt:

    I sense the need for a contest.

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  88. ggr says:

    Remember how good the Dan Rather docs looked to most people? Could not happen here huh?

    Well, considering one of the people who think Obama’s birth certificate looks fine is the (Republican) governor of Hawaii, I think you’re stretching it. Of course, if you want absolute proof you’re never going to find it – it only exists in logic, math, and other formal systems. There is always a non-zero chance that he wasn’t born in Hawaii. There’s also a non-zero chance that the next time you drop a coin it will float instead of falling … one of the drawbacks of inductive reasoning.

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  89. Zelsdorf Ragshaft III says:

    You know what Matt and the brilliant Michael Reynolds not. F**k both of you. I have an IQ of 143, missed one question from becoming a MENSA. I do have a proposal for you two genius’, if you can answer why several states AGs are suing to gain access to what will satisfy their birthers at that level, I will make available to either or both of you a guaranteed deed to the city of New York. I promise it is real and genuine. You do not get to examine in in advance and all I want for it is $24.00 in gold valued at the time of the Manhattan purchase. You are buying Obamas’s bullshit, and you think you know more about me than I am sure you know about him. What is the problem? Like I said, you just cannot educate the stupid out of some people. You two are a case in point. I am done here for today.

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  90. anjin-san says:

    if you can answer why several states AGs are suing to gain access to what will satisfy their birthers at that level

    Ummm. Because they are getting publicity? I mean really, AGs NEVER take action to get their pictures in the paper or further their political agendas. All really smart people know this…

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  91. Matt says:

    Aww my IQ in 6th grade was only 140 :(

    Keep avoiding my points and keep piling on the lies if it makes you feel better buddy :)

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  92. Matt says:

    Look Zelsdorf Obama HAS given people access to his COLB and it only inflamed the crazies even more. There is NO point at which Obama can hope to satisfy you or any of the other nuts. Frankly I think Obama already realizes this and has decided to somewhat stoke the flames of the crazy. It’s a great way to distract y’all from substantive arguments and makes the republican party and conservatives look like loons to the average American.

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  93. Zelsdorf:

    Noooo! Don’t leave! Noooo!

    How can we go on without you? Who will bring the crazy?

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  94. An Interested Party says:

    Who will bring the crazy?

    You needn’t worry…there are others around here to take his place…

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  95. G.A.Phillips says:

    Aww my IQ in 6th grade was only 140 :(

    lol mine in the forth grade, with a 13th grade comprehension lvl, but what are you saying, your smarter now? And I got your troll right here gimprad…….

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  96. G.A.Phillips says:

    Aww my IQ in 6th grade was only 140 :(

    lol mine in the forth grade, with a 13th grade comprehension lvl, but what are you saying, your smarter now? And I got your troll right here gimprad…….

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  97. G.A.Phillips says:

    lol what happened, to many smart people typing at once?

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  98. An Interested Party says:

    See, Michael…you didn’t have to wait long…

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  99. vech says:

    I don’t have an opinion one way or the other about Obama’s birth certificate, however, a couple of commenters talk about getting a COLB rather than a certified birth certificate. If you check Illinois’ vital information on their website, you can request the Long version (Birth Certificate) or Short version (COLB). So, the COLB is not just “given” to you, you choose which one you want. Since one has to pay for the record and the long version cost more than the short version, it sounds logical the requester has to choose which one they want in order to pay for it. The implication on this board is that the COLB is automatically given to the requester when that doesn’t appear to be the case.

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  100. Boyd says:

    I’m not sure why you think the process for requesting a birth certificate in Illinois has anything to do with the process in Hawaii.

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  101. vech says:

    I didn’t say it did, didn’t imply that it did, and don’t know how you arrived at that assumption.

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  102. Franklin says:

    I have an IQ of 267 and had a 19th-grade reading level when I was in kindergarten. It’s true! I just wrote it on the Internet!!!

    Rest assured, if somebody is a Birther, his IQ is unlikely to exceed 100.

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  103. G.A.Phillips says:

    Rest assured, if somebody is a Birther, his IQ is unlikely to exceed 100.

    lol, or if they are liberal, then I.Q. makes no difference…..

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  104. Matt says:

    I don’t have an opinion one way or the other about Obama’s birth certificate, however, a couple of commenters talk about getting a COLB rather than a certified birth certificate. If you check Illinois’ vital information on their website, you can request the Long version (Birth Certificate) or Short version (COLB). So, the COLB is not just “given” to you, you choose which one you want. Since one has to pay for the record and the long version cost more than the short version, it sounds logical the requester has to choose which one they want in order to pay for it. The implication on this board is that the COLB is automatically given to the requester when that doesn’t appear to be the case.

    NO you are WRONG. Call the county clerk’s office at (217) 554-1900 if you don’t believe me. I just went to the clerk’s office litterly a couple weeks ago and they told me the only version I could get was the COLB and that the long birth certificate was merely a hospital thing and not legal.

    The only reason this matters is because the birthers have declared a COLB to not be a real birth certificate. So I decided to speak up about my own personal experience with getting my birth certificate which is only available as a COLB..

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  105. Matt says:

    I forgot to add this to my last post but in the state of Illinois COLB/COB are controlled by the counties NOT the state. My county being Vermilion county as I mentioned earlier.

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  106. Matt says:

    Here’s a direct link for you
    http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/ctyclk01.htm

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  107. G.A.Phillips says:

    See, Michael…you didn’t have to wait long…

    So did I win the contest?????? OR ARE WE STARTING NOW??????????????

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  108. vech says:

    Matt: don’t tell me I’m WRONG. Call your clerk and tell them their state’s website is wrong, or god forbid, the clerk is wrong. We know how competent our government officials are don’t we? It oosts $15 for the long form and $10 for the short form. Any state can obviously dictate to their counties how to do things, if they wanted to. If the long form is not legal, why does Illinois state that children under 16 who are getting a passport require the long form? Before posting again, why not take a moment to look at your state’s website. If you feel it’s wrong, you should contact them, and the clerk who is giving you advice.

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  109. Matt says:

    Matt: don’t tell me I’m WRONG.

    You are wrong be inferring that I can get a long form COB when it clearly says you can’t on the official county website and at the clerk’s office. That makes you WRONG and the location of where you got your information WRONG.

    Call your clerk and tell them their state’s website is wrong, or god forbid, the clerk is wrong. We know how competent our government officials are don’t we?

    Always looking for an excuse to blame the govt when it’s really you that’s wrong? Seriously you’re acting like a typical wingnut at this point trying to blame everyone other then yourself for being wrong.

    It oosts $15 for the long form and $10 for the short form.

    No it doesn’t as the website clearly says and the clerk would clearly tell you. There’s only one option and it’s $10

    Any state can obviously dictate to their counties how to do things, if they wanted to.

    Yes and the federal gov’t can dictate to any state how they do things if they wanted to..

    If the long form is not legal, why does Illinois state that children under 16 who are getting a passport require the long form?

    I got my passport under 16 with a COLB not any long form thing.

    Before posting again, why not take a moment to look at your state’s website. If you feel it’s wrong, you should contact them, and the clerk who is giving you advice.

    Before posting again maybe you should look at the county site I posted which is in charge of COB/COLBs or even call the county clerk’s office. Once again you’re the one WRONG in this not the county or the clerks office.

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  110. vech says:

    Matt: I really have things to do and I have noticed one thing on this and many other boards – some people just live to argue. My original post was not meant to be combative, simply informative. What follows is your states requirements. verbatim, for legal birth certificates. My whole point is there is more than one type. The inference on this site is there are several types.
    “The IDPH, Division of Vital Records offers two types of certified birth records that are suitable for all legal purposes.

    * A certified copy or “long form,” the most readily recognizable record, is an exact copy of your birth certificate as prepared by the hospital. The fee for this record is $15 and $2 for each additional copy of the same record requested at the same time.

    Please note: Current processing time on mailed requests for CERTIFIED COPIES ONLY is approximately three to four weeks from the date the request is received.
    * A certification or “short form” is a computer abstract (summary) of your birth information in an 8 ” X 7″ size. The certification may include parent information depending on your year of birth. The fee for this record is $10 and $2 for each additional copy of the same record requested at the same time. (NOTE: If your child is younger than 16 years of age and the birth certificate will be used for a passport application, the passport office requires the $15.00 certified copy.)”

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  111. yonson says:

    Alex, as a fellow Techie, I can only say they seem to still have profs there who teach a student to think objectively.

    As for all the “sea-lawyers” out there, I’m not going to waste any more time with them. Here are some of the latest things I’ve found on the issue of Obama’s birth cert.

    The long version
    Short-attention-span version

    But even if that gets settled, there’s still the problem of all those other documents he doesn’t want us to see, and if there was nothing negative on them, he would be waving proudly.
    Just what is he hiding?

    Keep that open mind, Alex. You do WPI proud!

    Everyone, have a nice day.

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  112. Matt says:

    Matt: I really have things to do and I have noticed one thing on this and many other boards – some people just live to argue.

    Well sorry but I cannot allow you to spread misinformation. Honestly though it’s pretty obvious you just live to argue yourself or you wouldn’t be trying to tell me I didn’t experience what I did..

    My original post was not meant to be combative, simply informative.

    Your original post was not informative as your information was incorrect.

    What follows is your states requirements. verbatim, for legal birth certificates. My whole point is there is more than one type.

    My whole point is you’re WRONG there is NOT more then one type available for me or anyone in my county. It’s hilarious that you an outsider is trying to tell me how my home county is run. Well when I grabbed my COLB which is the ONLY COB you can get in Vermilion county as shown on the official site and via a simple phone call I also grabbed an application form in case I were to need another copy someday. Below is a link to the scanned form. Note there is only ONE choice for birth certificate which is the COLB 😛 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Tool_of_Society4/img002.jpg

    The inference on this site is there are several types.
    “The IDPH, Division of Vital Records offers two types of certified birth records that are suitable for all legal purposes.

    That’s nice and irrelevant as Vermilion county obviously does not follow those standards.

    * A certified copy or “long form,” the most readily recognizable record, is an exact copy of your birth certificate as prepared by the hospital. The fee for this record is $15 and $2 for each additional copy of the same record requested at the same time.

    Why don’t you just call the county clerk’s office up and ask them yourself? I’m tired of explaining to you over and over that I tried to get that form of COB and was denied due to NO such thing existing. It’s rather quite pathetic that you refuse to do anything but quote some website link you found rather then calling the actual people in charge of this.

    Please note: Current processing time on mailed requests for CERTIFIED COPIES ONLY is approximately three to four weeks from the date the request is received.
    * A certification or “short form” is a computer abstract (summary) of your birth information in an 8 ” X 7″ size. The certification may include parent information depending on your year of birth. The fee for this record is $10 and $2 for each additional copy of the same record requested at the same time. (NOTE: If your child is younger than 16 years of age and the birth certificate will be used for a passport application, the passport office requires the $15.00 certified copy.)”

    Like I said before the COLB is the same thing my mom used when I was a kid in high school to get my passport (went on a semi-class trip to europe).

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  113. Matt says:

    BTW my COLB contains ALL the information you find on any “long form” COB 😛

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  114. Matt says:

    Yeah just double checked and my GF’s COB has no more information then my COLB (she was born in Texas).

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  115. yonson says:

    OH, BTW, //SARC = OFF//

    Objective reality requires knowledge, not “belief;” proof, not speculation. There just isn’t enough “proof” because we have no unbiased witnesses, nor sufficient legally valid evidence. He may well be a “natural born” American citizen, but given the enormous gaps in what we know about him, that cannot be called either “objective” or “real.” It is, as yet, speculation, not a known fact.

    Schroedinger, go see if your cat is hungry.

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  116. hcantrall says:

    I posted above about my experience getting my birth cert from California and had the same experience as Matt. I guess we’re both liars or retarded and don’t know what we’re talking about as I was only given one option as well and that was a COLB.

    You’re going to have to let it go Matt, you cannot get through to people sometimes =)

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  117. vech says:

    Matt: the “website I found” is the official vital records for the state of Illinois. I can guarantee you counties do not control the state, it’s the other way around. I don’t have to be an “outsider” to know that. I can also tell you as someone who has done genealogy research for the past 30 years I know my way around vital records agencies, even in “your” state. The county has some records (usually older ones) the state doesn’t have, and the state has some the counties don’t have. While most of us do order our birth certificates from the county of our birth, you can certainly order your birth certificate from the state of Illinois. It’s ludicrous to think you can’t. And yes, please let it go, because I am. If you don’t believe your own state’s information there’s not much I can do about that. Have a good evening.

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  118. Matt says:

    Matt: the “website I found” is the official vital records for the state of Illinois. I can guarantee you counties do not control the state, it’s the other way around.

    I also have an official Vermilion county website which says your official Illinois website is WRONG. I also have a county clerk and her boss both saying you’re WRONG. I also even have an application for birth/death/marriage records which also says you’re WRONG.

    I can also tell you as someone who has done genealogy research for the past 30 years I know my way around vital records agencies, even in “your” state.

    As someone who lived in the county and physically went to the county clerks office I can tell you that you’re “genealogy research for the past 30 years” doesn’t mean jack.

    The county has some records (usually older ones) the state doesn’t have, and the state has some the counties don’t have.

    You know that might be true but for my case the STATE told me to go to the COUNTY’s clerk office..

    While most of us do order our birth certificates from the county of our birth, you can certainly order your birth certificate from the state of Illinois.

    Not what I was told when I contacted the state government before all of this.

    It’s ludicrous to think you can’t. And yes, please let it go, because I am. If you don’t believe your own state’s information there’s not much I can do about that. Have a good evening

    No it’s ludicrous that you some random dude thinks he knows what I experienced better then me the person that experienced it. Not only that but you totally won’t believe hcantrall which has a similar problem as me. If you can’t believe the people who physically did this process or provided you with physical evidence (the application) or the website evidence (the official website of my county) then you’re just another delusional birther who can’t believe they could possibly be wrong. I pity your existence..

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  119. vech says:

    From your county: Look at the second sentence. But the state does issue short forms. You have a long form. Notice they also use the term “birth certificates” but both forms will have “Certificate of Live Birth” written on them. The actual birth record is prepared by the hospital and is submitted to the government agencies.

    I am not a birther and never have been. I believe his COLB is authentic. that was never the point of my letter. It was simply (SIMPLY) that there are two types of certificates issued by Illinois – a short form and a long form. Obama’s COLB is a short form – the birthers want to see a long form. Why? I don’t know and I don’t care. I assume it’s something private on Obama’s part.

    You need to grow up young man. You sound like a shrill teenager. Now I challenge you to go the the state site and find information on the short form your state issues. This board is old and so is this fruitless argument.

    “Our office issues “long form” birth certificates ONLY. We do not issue short forms at this time. If the birth occurred in Vermilion County, the applicant may write to us, provide us with appropriate information (name at birth, date of birth, parents’ names and a copy of photo identification), and include the required fee of $10.00 ($4.00 for each additional copy of the same certificate). We would process the request same day and mail back a “LONG FORM” birth certificate. In the case that the required birth certificate is for a person under the age of eighteen, application must come from a parent.’

    Machelle Long

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  120. Tom Degan says:

    Barack Hussein Obama was born on August 4, 1961 in the state of Hawaii. That was the week the Berlin Wall went up.

    Coincidence? I wonder.

    This evil, subversive plot has been in the making for damned near forty-eight years! By all evidence, since the moment of Obama’s birth! Here is a question that all good and decent Americans should demand an immediate answer to: Was the newspaper, the Honolulu Advertiser, in on the scheme when they printed little Barack’s bogus birth announcement on August 9, 1961? Just where the hell does that paper lean editorially? To the hard Left, I strongly suspect. Wouldn’t that just figure!

    The NAACP, in coercion with the American Communist Party, Democracy NOW and Ed Asner, concocted this evil plot deep in the basement of Norm Chomskey’s home in Cambridge, Massachusetts in the midst of a week-long peyote mushroom binge. The elevation of this dangerous and subversive man to the highest office in this grand and glorious land of ours is only the first step in their dastardly plan. Their next objective will be to force our daughters – our little personifications of patriotism and purity – to court and co-mingle with NEGROES.

    Before very long our children – your children – will be physically forced to memorize whole chapters of James Baldwin’s “Native Son” and “The Autobiography Of Malcolm X”. Trust me, it’s only a matter of time.

    They must be stopped. Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the country that we all hold so dear to our freedom-loving hearts. America is falling; victimized by forces who would put a foreign-born A-Rab in the seat that was once held by the sainted Ronald Reagan – RONALD REAGAN, I TELL YOU!

    My friends, now is not the time for the faint-of-heart. It a time for boldness and stoutness of mind and spirit. Only our collective intestinal fortitude will defeat the Liberal cabal – those nattering nabobs of negativism – who would burn our beloved country down. The time has come to give America back to the real Americans. My fellow citizens, you ignore me at your own peril….

    And one more thing we must never ever forget: Barack and Michelle Obama named their two daughters, “Sasha” and “Malia”. What’s that all about?

    Of course, what you just read is meant as satire. Only a complete and utter fool could possibly take any of it seriously. The really disturbing thing, however, is the fact that there are millions of people out there who would read those last eight paragraphs and wouldn’t even come close to getting the joke. While there is plenty of satirical gold to be siphoned from the bottomless mine that these lunatics have provided us with, they have created a dangerous atmosphere that is enabling the nuttiest angels of the American nature. That is something that would do us all well to think about.

    http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

    Tom Degan
    Goshen, NY

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  121. yonson says:

    THE HEART OF THE MATTER IS OBAMA’S CANDOR AND HONESTY, OR, MORE PRECISELY, HIS APPARENT LACK THEREOF.

    Here, from a collection of items, is a brief summary of just the COB issue (see above for links I gave on a lot of the other things he refuses to tell us, but which we know about everyone else)…

    ….one could speculate that he hasn’t disclosed because:

    1. He was not born in Hawaii, and may not be eligible to be President;

    2. He was born in Hawaii, but facts that may be derived from his vault copy birth certificate are inconsistent with the life story he has told (and sold);

    3. He was born in Hawaii, and his refusal to provide the best evidence that he is a natural born citizen is a means by which to draw criticism of him in order to make him appear to be a “victim. . . . ”

    We “birthers” aren’t conspiricy nuts. We just want a truthful president. Obama isn’t one.

    It IS a serious problem, regardless of where he was born.

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  122. On the Fritz says:

    My latest xtranormal video…

    This video is about the birthers — those crazy people who question Barack Obama’s birth certificate. Related articles:Obama Born In Hawaii: Time For GOPers To Put It On The Record (oliverwillis.com)Is Barack Obama An American Citizen? (outs…

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