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Jon Stewart Is Right: Harry Reid Is A Really, Really Terrible Person

As if doubling down on his unsupported allegations against Mitt Romney weren’t bad enough, Harry Reid has taken to repeating those allegations on the floor of the United States Senate:

He’s refused to release his tax returns, as we know. If a person coming before this body wanted to be a cabinet officer, he couldn’t be if he did the same refusal Mitt Romney does about tax returns. So the word’s out that he hasn’t paid any taxes for ten years. Let him prove that he has paid taxes, because he hasn’t. We already know from one partial tax return that he gave us, he has money hidden in Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, and a Swiss bank account. Not making that up, that’s in the partial year that he gave us. Mitt Romney makes more money in a single day than the average middle-class family makes in two years-or more.

I’m not a Romney fan, I think he should release his tax returns, and yes I know that Republicans have done stuff like this before, but that doesn’t make what Reid is doing here any less despicable.

H/T: Ed Morrissey

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About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway. Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. mantis says:

    I’m not Romney fan, I think he should release his tax returns, and yes I know that Republicans have done stuff like this before, but that doesn’t make what Reid is doing here any less despicable.

    I see. “Both sides do it” is only a viable excuse for things Republicans do.

    Look on the bright side, Doug. The next time a Republican makes an accusation about a Democrat’s taxes, you already have your “Both sides do it!” post ready.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 26 Thumb down 12

  2. Cycloptichorn says:

    Why dontcha be honest? It’s only despicable b/c it will really hurt Romney if this keeps up.

    I’ve never seen you refer to the continual raft of baseless accusations and smears pointed towards Obama as being ‘despicable,’ and the entire party you support has been going on with those for 4 years now.

    There’s no ‘innocent until proven guilty’ in the court of public opinion. At all. And why should there be?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 10

  3. Just curious, is Mike Kelly despicable too? Is he a really, really, terrible person?

    Because I thought the call in this post was that he was just engaging in “ridiculous political hyperbole”

    Personally, I might reverse those. I might make the ‘accusation’ that Mitt did what 21,000 other millionaires do … pay no taxes, not a big deal.

    Whereas comparison of the Contraceptive Coverage Mandate to 9/11, Pearl Harbor was … terrible.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 6

  4. It is despicable because Reid is making accusations that he is unwilling to provide proof for

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 20

  5. mantis says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    It is despicable because Reid is making accusations that he is unwilling to provide proof for

    He doesn’t have the documents to provide proof. Mitt Romney does. He is keeping them a secret.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 11

  6. Keith says:

    What Senate business was being discussed that resulted in this speech?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  7. Mantis,

    There’s no difference between what Reid is doing and asking someone to prove they’re not a child molester.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 25

  8. Cycloptichorn says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    This is just a ridiculous comment. There’s every reason to believe that Romney is hiding his taxes because they will be damaging to him. He has admitted as such and he has also been found to have engaged in several tax activities that are questionable at best.

    Your analogy would only make sense if Romney was refusing to release his arrest records.

    Like I said above – you’re not innocent until proven guilty in the court of public opinion. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    Why do Republicans get pissed when Democrats play hardball? As if only they are allowed to do so. And please, spare us the ‘I don’t identify with either side’ BS.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 8

  9. Bennett says:

    @Doug Mataconis: This is a terrible analogy. Romney CAN prove Reid is wrong.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 6

  10. jukeboxgrad says:

    There’s no difference between what Reid is doing and asking someone to prove they’re not a child molester.

    This claim of yours is quite wrong, and mantis already explained why in the other thread.

    Which is also what Bennett said.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 7

  11. Craigo says:

    @Doug Mataconis: What? you can’t prove you’re not a child molester. But if Mitt Romney did pay taxes, he can easily prove that by releasing his tax returns.

    Better GOP hacks, please.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 8

  12. mantis says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    There’s no difference between what Reid is doing and asking someone to prove they’re not a child molester.

    Actually, there’s a huge difference.

    – US Presidential candidates have traditionally released their tax returns. No candidates have been asked or have offered to provide “I’m not a child molester” documents.
    – Child molestation is a crime. Paying nothing in taxes is not necessarily a crime. Reid has not accused Romney of a crime.
    – No one can prove they are not a child molester. Romney can prove he pays taxes. Quite easily, in fact.

    Are those differences confusing to you? They are quite obvious.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 40 Thumb down 9

  13. MBunge says:

    If Reid is a terrible person, what does that make Mitch “Our #1 goal is defeating Obama” McConnell?

    Mike

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6

  14. wr says:

    @Doug Mataconis: I eagerly await the youTube video of Doug weeping and shouting “Leave Mitt alooooone!!!”

    Because really, that’s the level his defenses have sunk to.

    There is no attack on Obama that isn’t fair; there is no attack on Romney that isn’t a despicable assault on America itself.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 7

  15. Paul L. says:

    @mantis:

    He doesn’t have the documents to provide proof. Mitt Romney does. He is keeping them a secret.

    Does the same standard apply to the Swiftvets when John Kerry would not release his full Military Records?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 17

  16. I really don’t understand Republicans who think “doesn’t pay tax” is like “child molesting.”

    Are they for child molesting? Because they sure as hell are for paying no tax.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 7

  17. John

    Let me put it this way. Harry Reid is no better than Michelle Bachmann’s witch hunt against Huma Abedin. He’s no better than Joe McCarthy.

    Poorly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 23

  18. @Doug Mataconis:

    Just to lay it on, dude. Are all 21,000 million millionaires who pay no tax also child molesters?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 5

  19. Andy says:

    @mantis:

    He doesn’t have the documents to provide proof. Mitt Romney does. He is keeping them a secret.

    I’m sorry, but that’s the same argument the birthers used. It was a BS argument then, and it’s a BS argument now.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 7

  20. @Doug Mataconis:

    Do you think you are looking good, in this thread?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 7

  21. Bennett says:

    @Paul L.: What didn’t get released in this case? His full service record was released, as was the full record of the investigation into his medals. The only part not given were his personnel records, which I’m not sure would show anything of interest (and in fact Kerry released much of this himself).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5

  22. Cycloptichorn says:

    @Andy:

    Then where the hell was the GOP – including writers like those on this site – calling the Birther arguments despicable? Denouncing anyone who brought it up and describing them as ‘McCarthyite?’ I sure as hell don’t remember any of that happening.

    Not a little bit of hypocrisy going on here on the right-wing these days…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 6

  23. John,

    If you want to associate yourself with someone who is making unsupported allegations against another person and refuses to identify the source of the alleged information he is imparting, that’s your choice.

    But remember, you lie down in the mud and you wake up with pigs.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 16

  24. @wr:

    I have spoken out on numerous occasions about the birther nonsense, the “Obama is a Muslim” crap, the false allegation that the President goes around the world apologizing for America, and many, many other dumb claims that have been made about the President.

    So, you’re basically wrong there.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  25. B Mullen says:

    the effort put into getting the last word in the above , is a symptom of too much testosterone …. just my opinion ….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  26. jukeboxgrad says:

    that’s the same argument the birthers used

    The two things you’re comparing are not comparable. I already explained why (link).

    And aside from what I already explained, there’s another problem with your analogy. The birthers kept calling for Obama’s BC even though he had already released his BC.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 3

  27. slimslowslider says:

    Juke,

    Just curious if Doug ever responds to your points?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  28. Paul L. says:

    @Bennett:

    His full service record was released, as was the full record of the investigation into his medals.

    You are as dishonest as Harry Reid
    From Wiki Swift Vets and POWs for Truth

    During the campaign, SBVT criticized Kerry for not signing a Standard Form 180 authorizing general public access to his Navy personnel records. Kerry responded that the documents were posted on his website.On May 20, 2005, Kerry did sign the SF-180 form permitting release of his service records and medical records to reporters from the Boston Globe, the Los Angeles Times, and the Associated Press; he refused a request by the New York Sun for access to the records.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4

  29. Ernieyeball says:

    @wr: there is no attack on Romney that isn’t a despicable assault on America itself.

    But you can’t hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg – isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  30. jukeboxgrad says:

    Just curious if Doug ever responds to your points?

    Yes, but only if you use a loose definition of ‘respond.’

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  31. Jukebox,

    I have already said Romney should release his tax returns, long before Reid’s idiocy. That’s not the issue. The issue is that Reid continues to make an allegation for which he is not providing proof. Which leads me to conclude that he is completely lying about this alleged phone call he says he got.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 10

  32. jukeboxgrad says:

    paul:

    From Wiki Swift Vets and POWs for Truth

    Funny how you omitted the next sentence:

    The Boston Globe and Los Angeles Times reported that the records largely duplicated what Kerry had released during the campaign.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 3

  33. jukeboxgrad says:

    If Reid is wrong, Mitt can prove it, today. By refraining from doing so, Mitt is showing either that Reid is right, or that Mitt is hiding something even worse than what Reid said.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4

  34. @mantis:

    On the other hand, you routinely criticize Doug for hypocrisy. Apparently hypocrisy is okay when you’re a Democrat?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  35. Bennett says:

    @Paul L.: Did you even read my whole response where I said he didn’t release his personnel records?

    From another wiki article:

    The Navy provided Judicial Watch with many of Kerry’s service records, including those concerning the medals he received

    and

    On October 4, 2004 the Navy Inspector General’s office responded with documentation of the investigation.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

  36. jukeboxgrad,

    Guess what? Some guy just told me that Barack Obama stole client funds when he was in private practice as an attorney. Now, he needs to prove I’m wrong.

    That’s the logic that you and Reid are using. Yes, Romney should release more returns just for the sake of the politics of it. That doesn’t justify his McCarthyism.

    Of course I would never make such an allegations because I have better ethics than an idiot Senator from Nevada.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 16

  37. MBunge says:

    @Doug Mataconis: “He’s no better than Joe McCarthy.”

    Yes, because multi-millionaires who pay lower tax rates than plumbers and hotel maids and seek to perpetuate that state of affairs are the moral equivalent of blacklist victims.

    Mike

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 4

  38. So you’re okay with someone making an supported allegations (which look for all the world like lies) about people just because it helps your political side?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 11

  39. rudderpedals says:

    I don’t recall McCarthy calling the high elite – the Astors or Rockefellers or Romneys – to the HUAC. McCarthy didn’t touch the first estate.

    Candidate Romney is vulnerable on charges that he’s a Nixonian concealer. Nixon cut his chops with McCarthy. Scooter Libby said the roots are connected like aspens. That’s about all McCarthyism has to do with failing to release the tax returns.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

  40. Tsar Nicholas says:

    Meh. Reid’s not a “terrible person.” Spare us the melodrama. He’s a Democrat. Plus he’s a Nevada Democrat. Have you ever been to Nevada? Shit, Las Vegas is like a cross between the wild west, Tammany Hall, the “five families,” and Chicago or New Orleans. People there get buried for getting out of line. Seriously. Literally.

    Reid simply is taking off the gloves and trying to make this into an alley fight. I don’t condone the tactic, but I do greatly admire the ruthlessness.

    In any event, regardless of the motivation, one thing is clear: This will be the nastiest campaign ever. Just wait until October, especially if the president’s internal polling gets worse. They’ll go after Romney’s wife. Moreso than before. They’ll attack his kids. They’ll directly attack his religion. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 10

  41. EddieInCA says:

    Doug –

    There is a huge flaw in your argument.

    It’s impossible for Romney to rebut the charge “Mitt, prove you didn’t beat your wife.”

    However, Romney can easily, very easily rebut the charge “Mitt, you didn’t pay any taxes for a decade.” Romney could have – LEGALLY – paid zero taxes for a decade. He also could have paid 5%, 10%, 15%, or more, or less.

    But they’ve decided that whatever is in those tax returns is worth this battle, and never-ending drip, drip, drip. If you think this is going to go away, you’re naive. It’s only just beginning. He’ll be asked about it at all three debates. What will the undecided voter think when Romney says “I’ve disclosed all I’m going to disclose”, regardless of precedent, when asked about his tax returns?

    For a guy who has been running for six years, this is something he should have handled a long, long, long time ago. It’s amateurish from a national politician.

    And it’s not going away.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3

  42. Eddie,

    For the billionth time. I think Romney should release more tax returns. I said that weeks ago.

    That, however, does not justify what Reid is doing here.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4

  43. EddieInCA says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    So you’re okay with someone making an supported allegations (which look for all the world like lies) about people just because it helps your political side?

    You’ve been okay with it for years.

    “Pot, meet kettle.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  44. James in LA says:

    Not at all despicable. Mitt Romney is running for President, not CEO. These tax returns are front-and-center relevant because they speak to serious threats to American security once he is elected. No Congressional subpeona nor FOIA request would ever inform us as to what is actually happening with accounts that could be used as laundromats for any purpose. Nixon wished he had it so good.

    And most Americans will not tolerate even the whiff of “tax dodger,” which is what Swiss and Caymens emit. Thems the rules.

    The 2011 taxes are summaries only.

    The 2010 taxes are missing the very documents that could shed light on this very serious problem.

    No one can now trust the word of Mitt Romney on this is or any issue as we have six years of footage containing the lies he has told.

    As Sir White Horse Romney continues to stumble — it’s clear there is no “A” game — those who saw these returns in 2008 may begin to feel their patriotic duty to release them. It would be a shame if it happened at Tampa. A downright crying shame in October. It’s a ghastly mistake the GOP has made.

    This has nothing whatsoever to do with Harry Reid.

    Meanwhile, Pew has Obama breaking to 51%.

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/pew-obama-national-lead.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  45. Bennett says:

    @rudderpedals: The 1st estate refers to clergy. The 2nd estate is what you were looking for. Carry on.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  46. Eddie

    You are so wrong it’s not even funny. I’ve been calling out Republican BS for years, here at OTB and elsewhere

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

  47. James,

    Thank you for confirming that you support lying when it is to the political advantage of the candidate you support

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 8

  48. @Doug Mataconis:

    The thing is Doug, you did worse than Harry in this thread.

    Harry said “I heard Romney paid no taxes.”

    Doug said “Harry called Mitt a child molester.”

    Wear it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

  49. James in LA says:

    Doug your argument is pure deflection, 100%. And no one seems to be buying it. Reid is irrelevant. Release the tax returns, and all will be well.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

  50. Ernieyeball says:

    They’ll go after Romney’s wife. Moreso than before. They’ll attack his kids. They’ll directly attack his religion. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

    Just wait until October, especially if Romney’s internal polling gets worse. They’ll attack Obama’s race. They’ll question his religion. They’ll attack his citizenship. You’ve seen it all before.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 4

  51. The fact that so many of you are willing to excuse what Reid is doing because you dislike the target of his completely unsupported allegations says much about you

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 17

  52. EddieInCA says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    That, however, does not justify what Reid is doing here.

    Are you kidding me? After the last four years?

    Your outrage is laughable.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  53. jukeboxgrad says:

    doug:

    Guess what? Some guy just told me that Barack Obama stole client funds when he was in private practice as an attorney. Now, he needs to prove I’m wrong.

    This analogy is just as bad as your previous analogy. There would be no simple way to disprove that accusation, since it would require proving a negative. In contrast, Mitt does have a simple, clear way to disprove Reid’s allegation.

    The other problem with this analogy (and also with your prior analogy) is that there is no precedent for candidates providing such information. But there is precedent for candidates to show tax returns.

    And yet another problem with both your analogies is that there is no evidence suggesting that the accusations might be true. In contrast, we already know about various red flags in Mitt’s taxes (overseas accounts, mysteriously large IRA) which make it reasonable to speculate that he may have gone to great lengths to avoid taxes.

    So you’re okay with someone making an supported allegations (which look for all the world like lies)

    That applies to quite a few things Mitt and his campaign have said about Obama.

    Also, you should consider the possibility that what Reid says is precisely true: someone in a position to know told him this. So why shouldn’t he speak up?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2

  54. Eddie,

    Your blind partisanship is showing. I am sick of these tactics regardless of which side does it and I’m not going to excuse Harry Reid, or Michelle Bachmann, when they make unsupported allegations like this.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 13

  55. James in LA says:

    “James,”

    “Thank you for confirming that you support lying when it is to the political advantage of the candidate you support”

    Doug, how do you know what candidate I support? Or is this more made-up hooey from the loser of a great many more arguments than this of late?

    You are fixated on what you perceive to be a lie. I do not agree with your assertion because all you have done is provide one false equivalency after the next. You aren’t serious, Doug, because you invent tangential B.S. with the freedom of breathing, much like Mitt Romney.

    Such as your alleged Karnak-like powers as to which candidate an otherwise perfect stranger in a blog supports. And do not bother asking. We have secret ballots so busy-bodies such yourself are free to stick it. Or not. Free country. Your choice.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

  56. Jukebox,

    If this was a Republican Senator making the same allegations about a Democrat you’d be screaming in outrage. Your partisanship is quite tiresome.

    I think I’ve said all I have to say, though. Some of us have a sense of ethics and some of us apparently don’t. I will ponder that for awhile.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 16

  57. rudderpedals says:

    @Bennett:

    The 1st estate refers to the clergy.

    Merci beaucoup. ++estate

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  58. Modulo Myself says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Actually, what seems to get Democrats upset is the fact that most Republican accusations are flat-out stupid. If a GOP senator wants to fire out lies about Obama paying as little in taxes as he can, then go for it. It wouldn’t be that big of a deal. People would welcome lies that have the possibility of being true.

    Reid’s just an old-school political bully who is taunting various other bullies, who apparently can’t take a single degree of it.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

  59. James in LA says:

    ” Some of us have a sense of ethics.”

    Increasingly clearly, not Mitt Romney.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1

  60. Cycloptichorn says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    The fact that so many of you are willing to excuse what Reid is doing because you dislike the target of his completely unsupported allegations says much about you

    The problem with your position is that the allegations are NOT completely unsupported. In fact, there are several pieces of evidence which support the allegations:

    1, Romney has already revealed that he actively keeps accounts in foreign countries that are known to be tax shelters, specifically for avoiding paying taxes.

    2, Romney has been known in the past to ‘adjust’ his returns retroactively for his own political and personal gain.

    3, Romney has specifically stated that he doesn’t believe he should pay a single cent more than he is legally required to. This, combined with what we know about the returns he has released, is an admission that he would pay nothing if he could legally arrange it.

    4, Romney’s reported holdings make very clear that he is willing to pursue aggressive tax avoidance strategies – see his 100-million dollar IRA and his 100-million dollar gift to his kids to avoid the estate tax.

    5, Romney refuses to take the easiest and clearest path possible: simply release the returns and prove the haters wrong. His excuses for not doing so are so weak that you don’t even agree with them! This adds credence to the argument that he has something to hide; NOBODY would take this much heat and expose themselves to so much weakness unless they had something they thought would be worse if revealed.

    In sum: there is a great deal of evidence that supports Reid’s allegations. It fits the pattern of behavior that Romney has established. It provides an explanation for a mystery that nobody in politics has been able to solve. It is entirely consistent with his campaign’s stated positions on how the rich SHOULD behave. Your comparisons to a child molester, on the other hand, are ridiculous on their face and get no traction whatsoever, because there IS no supporting evidence for them whatsoever and they fit no established pattern.

    I really shouldn’t have to explain any of this to a lawyer….

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 2

  61. James,

    I couldn’t care less about Romney.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  62. jukeboxgrad says:

    I’m not going to excuse Harry Reid, or Michelle Bachmann

    Another lousy analogy. Bachmann essentially accused Abedin of treason, and it was an accusation that would be impossible for Abedin to disprove.

    On the other hand, Mitt can easily disprove Reid’s allegation (if the allegation is false). Also, trying really hard to minimize your taxes isn’t treason. It can be quite legal.

    If this was a Republican Senator making the same allegations about a Democrat you’d be screaming in outrage.

    Then surely you can find an example where I have done something like that. While you’re at it, you should show us where you ever said Mitt was “despicable” for making various false claims about Obama. And not just unverified claims, but claims that are verifiably false.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  63. EddieInCA says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Eddie,

    Your blind partisanship is showing.

    Really? I’m a registered Republican. I voted for Reagan twice, and for Poppa Bush. I’m against most corporate subsidies, wished the tax system were fairer, I’m pro-death penalty, anti-abortion, pro-same sex marriage, and I own four handguns and a shotgun, and enjoy my right to carry.

    Which partisianship is that, exactly?

    Forgive me if my I don’t get offended when a Democrat plays by the same rules as the GOP. After what the SwiftVets did to Kerry, and after what the GOP did to Bill Clinton, you should be ashamed of being so… sensitive.

    But on your big boy pants and realize that the Romney campaign created this entire mess during the primaries in 2008 when it first became and issue. Mitt and his team have had six years to deal with this, and they’ve chosen not to. Why?

    You yourself say he should release the returns, yet you’re offended that a Democrat is playing hardball politics?

    Ethics? Is that what you’re saying you have? Ethics? Well, you’ve proven, over and over again, that your ethics start and end with “Both sides do it.” Except when it gores “your” side, then it’s just Democrats being… “terrible.”

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 2

  64. Eddie,

    Instead of excusing the conduct, how about denouncing no matter who does it?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 16

  65. de stijl says:

    They’ll go after Romney’s wife. Moreso than before.

    Speaking of Ann, I saw this earlier and it is too delish not to pass on:

    “It’s a big exciting experience for my husband. I have to tell you, this is Mitt’s vocation. I’m not even sure which day the election goes on. He’ll get a chance to participate, I will not be voting in the event. I hope he does well.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

  66. Ron Beasley says:

    If Reid is a terrible person then Rove must be the Satan himself since it’s a tactic that is right out of his playbook.. Reid realizes you must fight fire with fire.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2

  67. mantis says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    The fact that so many of you are willing to excuse what Reid is doing because you dislike the target of his completely unsupported allegations says much about you

    I don’t actually excuse what Reid is doing. I think it is what you say it is. I’m just finding your reaction amusing. I love how you keep equating (presumably) legally paying no taxes with crimes such as child molestation and terrorism. I also like to see when “both sides do it,” no longer becomes a viable excuse for you.

    Anyway, Reid is a nasty character as far as I’m concerned, and I don’t agree with what he is doing. I am, however, enjoying the reaction.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2

  68. slimslowslider says:

    and the crabby meter goes through the roof!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  69. stonetools says:

    Do people realize that Doug has posted on this THREE times in the last 24 hours? Was he so hot to condemn the numerous baseless Republican allegations against Obama?

    In any case, as I posted on the last thread, the Democrats are tired of losing while having folks like Doug pat them on the head for being good. They want to win, and if takes using a Rovian move, sobeit.

    If you listen to the end of the skit, he points out Reid is doing what Fox News has done time and time again. Is Stewart right about that too, Doug?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

  70. David M says:

    Hmmm, I seem to remember the Obama administration not releasing some documents allegedly relating to Fast & Furious, and there were plenty of GOP officials willing to speculate what they were hiding.

    This is what Romney gets for not releasing his tax returns. That was the point when people said there was a political price for hiding them, and now he’s paying the price.

    People make nasty accusations all the time in politics, at least this one is plausible and could be true.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  71. Cycloptichorn says:

    @stonetools:

    Do people realize that Doug has posted on this THREE times in the last 24 hours?

    So are the other GOP sites – all have multiple posts on this.

    It’s a sure sign that the attack is working. I think Doug misunderstands the point – it’s a politically calculated move, likely designed to draw Romney out into a very vulnerable position.

    I have no doubt that Obama and Reid have the proof in question. They are simply hoping that Romney and his allies will stick their necks way, way out before it gets released. So far, Romney has avoided that – his campaign isn’t really commenting on it one way or another. Ferhnstrom’s comments really aren’t a denial of what Reid said, they are simply a character attack against Reid. Look for more of this in the days to come – and more evidence to start coming out as well.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2

  72. john personna says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Do you want to accuse me of paying no Federal tax?

    Go ahead.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  73. wr says:

    @Doug Mataconis: No better than Joe McCarthy?

    McCarthy targeted private citizens and set out to destroy their lives, using the power of the government and a network of anti-Communist — really anti-liberal — followers to deprive them of the ability to make a living, sometimes even sending them to jail.

    Reid is attempting to embarass Romney, who is the Republican candidate for president.

    Not to get all Welch on you, but do you have no sense of proportion? Do you have no sense of shame?

    Or is your right wing self pity now so strong that you can’t tell the difference here?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

  74. Paul L. says:

    @David M:
    Congress has the legal oversight right to the Fast & Furious Documents.
    Want Is the legal oversight right to Romney’s tax returns?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

  75. John,

    Unlike unethical people like Harry Reid, I would never accuse you of something I had no evidence to support.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

  76. stonetools says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Eddie,

    Instead of excusing the conduct, how about denouncing no matter who does it?

    Unfortunately, the Republicans have created the conditions where you can’t seem to win without resorting to this kind of thing. That’s why “Both sides do it” is shallow analysis. ONE side has been doing it -and benefiting immensely from it- for 24 years now. You don’t seem to want to recognize this with your false equivalence frame.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  77. wr says:

    @Ernieyeball: Is this like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  78. wr says:

    @Tsar Nicholas: Hi Tsar, could you do us a favor? Could you tell us which parts of the United States you don’t consider vile, terrible places? Because you’ve slagged every big city, now you’re taking after nearly empty Nevada. As far as I can tell, the only place you consider Real America is some white trash trailer park in Pigstink, Alabama.

    You must be a proud American.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  79. wr says:

    @Cycloptichorn: It’s actually a brilliant double whammy on Reid’s part. Because on the D side, there will be people saying that what Reid says must be true since Romney refuses to release the documents that will prove it false.

    And as the chatter swirls on, eating up day after day of the campaign, smart Republicans will start saying that Romney has to release the returns to stop the bleeding. And when he still refuses — well, then even the Rs are going to start thinking there’s something seriously wrong here.

    And the best part of all is that Reid is making it so obviously easy for Romney to end all this immediately. As soon as he releases the returns, then the truth comes out, and if Reid is lying he looks terrible. Everyone knows this. And everyone can see Romney not releasing the returns.

    I’m not always a big fan of Harry Reid, but this is a brilliant tactic. No wonder it’s got Doug so upset — only Republicans are supposed to act like this. Doug knows Reid is laughing his ass off here, and it’s making him crazy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2

  80. Ernieyeball says:

    @wr: Yeah…and we’re on a Mission from God!…oh wait…cinematic confusion…

    RIP John Belushi

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

  81. john personna says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    OK, but the point is that “he paid no tax” is something most of us could weather. Not a big deal. We know there are many ways for the tax code to work out that way.

    It is only treated like … what did you say? Wife beating? Child molesting?

    You said those because of your fear, that a legal and low tax paid BY MITT would be a very bad thing. That tilted your view of the charge.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

  82. stonetools says:

    @Ernieyeball:

    Just wait until October, especially if Romney’s internal polling gets worse. They’ll attack Obama’s race. They’ll question his religion. They’ll attack his citizenship. You’ve seen it all before.

    Heh, remember the supposed Michelle Obama ” whitey” tape? The Repubs have already tried that .

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2

  83. Herb says:

    It’s useful to remember that Harry Reid provided the inspiration for Dick Smothers’s corrupt senator character in Martin Scorsese’s Casino, a movie that came out in the early 90s.

    In other words, it’s not news that Harry Reid is contemptible.

    @Doug Mataconis:

    “Some of us have a sense of ethics and some of us apparently don’t.”

    Please…..ethics? Really?

    You know they have a committee for that. Maybe you’d like Harry Reid to be the first one investigated for spreading rumors. Or maybe it just looks like it’s unethical from the vantage point of your fainting couch.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

  84. grumpy realist says:

    Sorry, I really can’t see what Reid is trying for here. He either has balls so big they’re the size of solar masses, knowing full well that Romney could shoot him down completely by just releasing the tax forms–or he’s putting himself forwards as a sacrificial pawn.

    There was an interesting analysis in the NYtimes from a tax professor (and republican) who thinks the naughty bits, if there are any, are in Mitt’s IRA and the valuation of the “gifts” made to his sons when setting up the trusts. (The IRS gets really, really shirty if you do valuations of gifts at near-zero amount. They usually can’t catch it until after the statute of limitations has passed.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  85. Cycloptichorn says:

    @grumpy realist:

    You are forgetting the third and most likely option – that Reid knows exactly what’s in Romney’s returns, and knows that Romney will NEVER be able to effectively respond to these attacks.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  86. de stijl says:

    On CNN’s Political Ticker from a few minutes ago:

    Mitt Romney on Thursday pushed back against Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s allegations that the presumptive GOP nominee has not been paying his taxes.

    “It’s time for Harry to put up or shut up,” Romney said on Sean Hannity’s radio show.

    “Harry’s gonna have to describe who it is he spoke with because of course that’s totally and completely wrong,” Romney said Thursday in the radio interview. “It’s untrue, dishonest and inaccurate. It’s wrong. So I’m looking forward to have Harry reveal his sources and we’ll probably find out that it’s the White House.”

    (It’s also interesting that Romney chose to address a possibly unfounded rumor with an unfounded speculation about the source.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1

  87. Septimius says:

    I think Bill Clinton needs to prove that he didn’t violently rape Juanita Broderick. Otherwise, the Obama campaign should rescind his invitation to speak at the Democratic convention. An allegation has been made, and only Bill Clinton can prove he’s innocent.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 15

  88. mantis says:

    @Septimius:

    An allegation has been made, and only Bill Clinton can prove he’s innocent.

    How can he prove that, exactly?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2

  89. Craigo says:

    @Septimius:

    1) You’re asking someone to prove a negative.
    2) You’re equating not paying taxes with rape.

    Doug looks really, really stupid when he says these things. You don’t look any better.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

  90. @rudderpedals:

    I don’t recall McCarthy calling the high elite – the Astors or Rockefellers or Romneys – to the HUAC.

    I don’t recall McCarthy calling anyone to the HUAC, being that McCarthy was a senator and HUAC was in the House,

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

  91. James in LA says:

    ““Harry’s gonna have to describe who it is he spoke with because of course that’s totally and completely wrong.”

    What I have noticed this election cycle is the sheer transparency of the once vital political tactic of projection, and how it fails miserably when every internet user can literally Roll The Tape to see what is actually what.

    Harry’s gotta do nothing, sorry. This isn’t about Harry Reid. It could also be about Mitt Romney having already decided he does not want the job after all. He keeps entering the self-destruct codes, one by one.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

  92. rudderpedals says:

    @Stormy Dragon: Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  93. @de stijl:

    That cracks me up. Romney should have downplayed. He should have stuck with “The taxes I’ve released show my finances. You know who I am. Now let’s talk about what I can do for this country …”

    Jeez, saying Reid can end it is saying straight up that it isn’t ended. It lives on.

    And of course every single person listening knows that Mitt is actually the man who can end it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

  94. @rudderpedals:

    Sorry, the frequent merging of HUAC and McCarthy is one of my pet pevees. Each deserves its own separate pile of condemnation.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  95. Herb says:

    @Septimius:

    “I think Bill Clinton needs to prove that he didn’t violently rape Juanita Broderick.”

    So when Bill Clinton jumps through those hoops, will Mitt Romney then release his tax returns?

    Or will he (and his supporters) continue to faint on their couches?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

  96. de stijl says:

    Super OT, but “Whoa!!”

    New Pew poll has Obama up 51 – 41. (All poll caveats apply – check the methodology & sampling, could be an outlier, need to see if trend continues, etc.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  97. Septimius says:

    @mantis:

    He could testify under oath in a deposition. Oh wait…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  98. Will says:

    Bullshit. All Mitt Romney has to do is release his f*cking tax returns, and this is all over. Right? Right, Doug? If this is what it takes to get him to do it, then Harry Reid was justified in doing this. No one is asking Romney to do anything extraordinary. They’re asking him to do what EVERYONE ELSE HAS DONE. At this point, there is so obviously something so wrong in Romney’s returns that he simply CAN’T release them. Which means he is trying to put one over the American people. And you are helping him.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2

  99. grumpy realist says:

    @Cycloptichorn: But that’s what I don’t understand. Unless Reid decides to increase the pressure by getting his source on record, there’s no there there. Reid has an unsourced story, Romney simply continues to stonewall, and within a day or so the NRO are going to be clapping for Romney’s standing up against Those Horrid Liberals and won’t say a word about the tax forms.

    I predict that within one week, the entire set of commentators on the right (maybe not you, Doug) will have fallen into line and will be mouthing Romney’s excuse “I released two years of tax forms, that’s plenty enough!”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  100. Modulo Myself says:

    @Septimius:

    In 1997, she signed an affidavit that stated Clinton never assaulted her. Maybe that will clear up your confusion.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1

  101. rudderpedals says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    It’s a worthy peeve and I did step in/on it.

    Zombie Nixon’s pointing and laughing from somewhere at my expense

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  102. de stijl says:

    @de stijl:

    Re: today’s Pew poll – just checked 538 and Nate Silver isn’t terribly impressed.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  103. jukeboxgrad says:

    doug:

    Unlike unethical people like Harry Reid, I would never accuse you of something I had no evidence to support.

    This is wonderfully ironic, because you are acting as if you know for a fact that Reid has “no evidence to support” his accusation, even though you don’t actually know that. In other words, you have no evidence to support your accusation that Reid has no evidence to support his accusation. By your own standard, what you’re doing is “unethical.” Someone mentioned projection; this is a nice example.

    He hasn’t shown evidence (yet), but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any. And you don’t know that he didn’t get exactly the phone call he described.

    And speaking of irony and projection, this also reminds me of what de stijl said: “Romney chose to address a possibly unfounded rumor with an unfounded speculation about the source.”

    grumpy:

    Romney’s excuse “I released two years of tax forms, that’s plenty enough!”

    He has released this many complete tax returns: zero.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2

  104. Ain't Karma A Bitch (Loviatar) says:

    I want to see the long form Utah, Massachusetts and Federal tax returns from the past 10 years.

    Birther Taxer Movement

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  105. Stonetools says:

    To paraphrase Andy Borowitz:

    Romney has off shore tax shelters,refuses to reveal his tax returns and.retroactively retired. I totally believe he has nothing to hide.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

  106. de stijl says:

    Reid has released a statement addressing Romney’s “Put up or shut up” Hannity appearance:

    “There is a controversy because the Republican presidential nominee, Governor Mitt Romney, refuses to release his tax returns. As I said before, I was told by an extremely credible source that Romney has not paid taxes for ten years. People who make as much money as Mitt Romney have many tricks at their disposal to avoid paying taxes. We already know that Romney has exploited many of these loopholes, stashing his money in secret, overseas accounts in places like Switzerland and the Cayman Islands.

    “Last weekend, Governor Romney promised that he would check his tax returns and let the American people know whether he ever paid a rate lower than 13.9 percent. One day later, his campaign raced to say he had no intention of putting out any further information.

    “When it comes to answering the legitimate questions the American people have about whether he avoided paying his fair share in taxes or why he opened a Swiss bank account, Romney has shut up. But as a presidential candidate, it’s his obligation to put up, and release several years’ worth of tax returns just like nominees of both parties have done for decades.

    “It’s clear Romney is hiding something, and the American people deserve to know what it is. Whatever Romney’s hiding probably speaks volumes about how he would approach issues that directly impact middle-class families, like tax reform and the economy. When you are running for president, you should be an open book.

    “I understand Romney is concerned that many people, Democrats and Republicans, have been calling on him to release his tax returns. He has so far refused. There is only one thing he can do to clear this up, and that’s release his tax returns.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

  107. mantis says:

    @Septimius:

    He could testify under oath in a deposition. Oh wait…

    You consider testimony of the accused proof?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  108. Stonetools says:

    And Reid counters Romney’s jab with a hard right cross to the chin! Don’t know how much more Romney can take!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  109. Dodd says:

    @Cycloptichorn:

    Then where the hell was the GOP – including writers like those on this site – calling the Birther arguments despicable? Denouncing anyone who brought it up and describing them as ‘McCarthyite?’ I sure as hell don’t remember any of that happening.

    Not a little bit of hypocrisy going on here on the right-wing these days…

    Then you either haven’t paid much attention or your memory is uncommonly selective. A search of this site for the term “Birther” produces 440 results, and you’ll be hard-pressed to find one by any of us that’s anything but openly contemptuous of the Birthers and their ilk. This piece by me is a pretty typical example:

    I’ve mocked and derided Birthers since they first appeared on the scene. Almost two years ago I called for the Right to “expel them — noisily and unequivocally.” While they were, until The Donald came along, largely relegated to the fringes, the Right’s opinion leaders didn’t go anywhere near far enough to cast them out. Ann Coulter (also in July, 2009) tried. And Glenn Beck has been equally dismissive. National Review and a few other mainstream publications tried to quash “this red-herring discussion.” Charles Krauthammer was brutal on Trump’s descent into this morass. By contrast, Rush, to his eternal shame, fanned the flames.

    Well, enough is enough. I don’t care how fervently one wants to believe that President Obama was born in Kenya. The much-demanded Long Form Birth Certificate is a matter of public record. Anyone persisting in pushing it is hereby declared persona non grata. Find another hobby.

    Another prime example is this one Doug wrote a few weeks earlier: A Handy Dandy Guide To Refuting Every Argument Made By A Birther. Doug, as is his usual wont, has expended immense numbers of pixels slagging any prominent right-winger who do much as flirted with Birtherism over the past few years.

    So, I don’t know what site you think you’ve been reading, but I suggest you attend to the hypocritical beam in your own eye and leave the motes in our eyes to us.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  110. wr says:

    @Stonetools: I think Reid’s having the time of his life here. How he keeps from giggling in public is beyond me. Three years of putting up with sanctimonious crap from Mitch “I’ll tear down the nation to get the black guy out of the White House” McConnell, and now he’s taking it all out on Romney. And poor little Mitt has no idea how to make it stop.

    God knows what Reid’s wife will get him for Christmas — what can top this?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

  111. jukeboxgrad says:

    dodd:

    This piece by me is a pretty typical example

    You deserve credit for condemning birtherism, but I think you fail to see how GOP leaders have been winking at the birthers. I explained this problem in the thread you cited, here.

    Mitt jumping into bed with Trump is a recent and important example of this. To his credit, Doug has criticized Mitt for doing that.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  112. de stijl says:

    Tonight on CNN’s AC360 Dana Bash said:

    I did speak to one source who is very close to Senator Reid who claims to also know who the Bain investor is that Reid spoke with, and insists that it is a credible person and this person if we knew the name we would understand they would have the authority and the ability to know about Romney’s tax returns.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2

  113. captain obvious says:

    Wow Doug. It’s a little late to try and get control of OTB after letting it slide into the leftwing cesspit.

    If its any consolation to your naysaying commies, if Romney did not pay his taxes wouldn’t Obama have named him as his Secretary of the Treasury already?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 12

  114. some guy says:

    @Doug Mataconis: Doug, is this your first day watching politics or what? Yeah, despicable. Terrible. Scummy. Evil. Look at me, I’m so shocked and outraged at politicians playing politics. Behold my moral panic.

    You know what else it is? It’s fantastic politics. Mitt Romney has given Democrats every incentive to do this. He’s edged right up to admitting that there is something damaging in his returns with his “I can’t, I’ll be attacked!” whining. He has set himself up for this, and he can make it stop at any time. He’s not an idiot; when he chose not to release, he did so knowing full well it would lead to things like this. What are Democrats supposed to do, say that since Romney won’t release they’ll just take him at his word because it would be rude to cast aspersions? No, they’re going to say he obviously has something to hide. They’re going to attack. Reid did it in a particularly clumsy way, but you’re upset about something that every politician on the planet would do in this situation.

    This is all in the game, son. Don’t get mad because Romney is having to lay in the bed he made for himself.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

  115. Steve J. says:

    MITTEN$ NEEDS TO SHOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ALL THE TAX RETURNS HE SHOWED TO THE MCCAIN CAMPAIGN

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  116. Steve J. says:

    BTW,

    MITTEN$ WAS CAUGHT LYING ABOUT HIS TENURE AT BAIN…

    SCREEN SHOTS HERE–>

    http://radamisto.blogspot.com/2012/07/heres-what-mittens-affirmed-in-2003.html

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

  117. @captain obvious:

    If its any consolation to your naysaying commies, if Romney did not pay his taxes wouldn’t Obama have named him as his Secretary of the Treasury already?

    That is a pretty good line.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  118. stonetools says:

    As far as ethics is concerned, Is what Harry Reid did that much different than a journalist who files a report based on anonymous sources? Harry Reid isn’t a journalist , but would Doug said Woodward and Bernstein were unethical in filing those news reports relying on Deep Throat?
    In any case, Harry Reid didn’t say ” Believe that Mitt Romney didn’t pay taxes based on my anonymous source.” He said, ” My reliable anonymous source said MItt Romney didn’t pay taxes. You journalists should look into this, and Mitt Romney can clear this up by releasing his returns” He gave the journalists a direction to look as well, by revealing his source was a Bain investor. Any reporter worth his salt should be looking through the Bain investor rolls looking for a Bain investor with with Utah connections.
    Reid has set the dogs on the hunt. Maybe they’ll come up with nothing, but who knows, there may be a juicy rabbit at trial’s end.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  119. bk says:

    So did Hillary murder Vince Foster or not?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  120. stonetools says:

    @bk:

    There was an exhaustive investigation into that , which concluded that she had no connection. If you are saying that there should be a similar investigation concerning Mitt Romney’s taxes, I agree. Turnabout is fair play.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  121. jukeboxgrad says:

    MITTEN$ WAS CAUGHT LYING ABOUT HIS TENURE AT BAIN

    Yes, he was. And not just that. He was caught lying about his tenure at Bain in official documents he filed with the federal government. That means he committed a felony. Link, link.

    There are many instances of Mitt lying about his tenure at Bain, in both formal documents and in his public statements. Your example and my example are just different examples. I like my example because it shows, beyond any doubt, that Mitt committed a federal crime. The Obama campaign has made a political decision to not keep beating that particular drum right now, but there is no doubt that Mitt committed a felony.

    There’s a mountain of evidence proving that Mitt is a highly accomplished liar. This is just an example where the lying also happens to be a criminal act.

    And his record of lying is relevant to this discussion about his taxes. We should assume that his tax returns (released and unreleased) are packed with all sorts of lies.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  122. bk says:

    Actually, what I was saying is what other commentators here and elsewhere have said, and far more eloquently than I can – that what Harry Reid has said is absolutely nothing compared to the accusations and allegations that this Democratic President, and the previous Democratic President, has had to face. And I don’t recall either of them whining about it like Romney has done.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

  123. jukeboxgrad says:

    There was an exhaustive investigation into that

    I think bk was being ironic.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  124. pylon says:

    Doug, you keep saying Harry Reid has no evidence. In fact he does, and he said what it was. It ain’t the greatest evidence, being hearsay from a confidential source, but it’s still evidence.

    Would it convict in a criminal court? Nope.

    Would it meet the balance of probabilities in civil court (assuming you could get around the hearsay aspect, which isn’t that hard, frankly)? Maybe.

    In that civil court, could there be an adverse inference due to the failure of the other side to adduce ANY evidence at all? You betcha.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  125. Septimius says:

    @mantis:

    You consider testimony of the accused proof?

    In regards to Bill Clinton, obviously not since he was found in contempt of court for lying under oath. But, you go ahead and enjoy his speech at the Democratic National Convention. Be proud that your party honors a man who lied to the country, lied to his wife, lied to his staff, and lied under oath.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

  126. pylon,

    It is “evidence” but it is not credible evidence.

    As I said the other day, there is simply no way that an investor in Bain would have had knowledge of the contents of Mitt Romney’s private tax returns.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  127. jukeboxgrad says:

    septimius:

    Be proud that your party honors a man who lied to the country, lied to his wife, lied to his staff, and lied under oath.

    Whining about Clinton’s honesty would be more impressive if “your party” wasn’t in the process of nominating someone who has such a deeply impressive record as a world-class liar. Including the felony lies that I just cited.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  128. stonetools says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Unless Mitt told him about it,or showed it to him. The point is not, Do you believe that Mitt Romney didn’t pay any tax for 10 years based on hearsay from a confidential source (The answer is no), but “Should reporters be looking into whether Mitt Romney didn’t pay any tax for 10 years, based on info from a confidential source.” That’s a different question.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

  129. jukeboxgrad says:

    stonetools:

    Unless Mitt told him about it,or showed it to him

    Exactly, and that could have happened either directly or indirectly. And there are many other ways this information could travel. Mitt’s tax returns are extraordinarily long and complicated, which means that a lot of people work on them, which means there are many chances for the information to leak.

    If you are a big Bain investor, there are going to be all sorts of people in and around Bain who are going to be eager to whisper various secrets in your ear.

    Also keep in mind that a Bain investor would tend to be a rich Mormon, which means they are part of the same world inhabited by Reid. It makes sense that such a person could have some kind of relationship with Reid.

    It’s also possible that this Bain investor didn’t get the information via Mitt or Bain. It’s possible that they got it via a leak from the McCain organization, which was handed 23 years of tax returns by Mitt in 2008. So “Bain investor” could be both true and also a red herring.

    doug:

    there is simply no way that an investor in Bain would have had knowledge of the contents of Mitt Romney’s private tax returns

    I love the irony of you making this claim which is unsupported by evidence (and also contrary to common sense) in the same breath that you condemn Reid for making a claim allegedly unsupported by evidence.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  130. mantis says:

    @Septimius:

    Just to recap:

    Septimius: Make Clinton prove he’s not a rapist!
    Me: How?
    Septimius: Testimony!
    Me: That’s proof?
    Septimius: No! (picks nose, stumbles away)

    Thanks for the enlightening conversation, dufus.

    P.S. All politicians are liars. It’s in the job description.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  131. grumpy realist says:

    @mantis: Actually, admitting “facts” which go against your case are, yes indeed, taken as evidence.

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  132. Septimius says:

    @mantis:

    Mantis: How can Clinton prove he’s not a rapist.
    me: Testify under oath in a deposition. Oh wait…
    Mantis: You consider that proof?

    IT WAS A JOKE, YOU MORON! Apparently, you are so stupid that you don’t remember that Bill Clinton was found in contempt of court for lying in a deposition. Otherwise, you couldn’t have possibly thought that was serious.

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  133. stanchaz says:

    Hey Jon Stewart….what are YOU hiding in your tax returns? contributions to Romney?

    We have a RIGHT to se the tax returns of everyone who wants to be President!

    If Romney is not lying about paying “lots” of taxes then it probably means 4 or 5 % on his millions

    which is “alot” BUT…while the rest of us pay double-digits in percent.

    Demand the Romney returns! And shape up Stewart!

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  134. Pylon says:

    Doug, as I said before, there are ways an investor might know. He might be a former friend or acquaintance. He might be Romney’s old accountant or tax lawyer. Just because an investor qua investor can’t get the info doesn’t mean they can’t get it another way.

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  135. Pylon says:

    Hell, maybe Romney told some other investors “here’s how to pay no tax on this income”.

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  136. Pylon says:

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate. :)

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  137. Cloud 9 says:

    I thinks it pretty sickening that we have a
    President that does not nip this foolishness
    In the bud, oh but that’s because Reid is one
    of his buddies. I personally don’t care about
    Romney’s taxes, America needs to focus on
    real issues and not innuendos. We should be
    up in arms Harry Reid & Friends have not put
    their heads together and get a budget.

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