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Less Than 1/3 Of Young Uninsureds Say They Will Sign Up For ObamaCare

Healthhcaredotgov

As I’ve noted before, one of the most critical parts of the ongoing open enrollment period for the insurance offered through the Federal and State exchanges set up pursuant to the Affordable Care Act is the question of both how many people will sign up and who will end up signing up. The Obama Administration has set a goal of some 7 million people signing up by the end of the open enrollment period on March 31, 2014, for example, and at least at the moment the pace of the enrollment remains far below that goal. Just as important as the number of people who sign up, is the importance that they sign up people from the right demographic groups. Specifically, it’s generally accepted that an insurance pool that ends up being unbalanced when it comes to age could end up being a potential problem going forward due to the fact that a lack of relatively young, healthy, insureds is likely to lead to an unbalanced risk pool that will result in higher premiums for everyone going forward. In other words, the success of the plan largely seems to depend on getting the so-called “Millennials” to sign up for and purchase health insurance.

So far, none of the data we’ve gotten from the Administration has shown any kind of demographic breakdown regarding who’s signing up for insurance but, a recent poll seems to indicate that the “Millennials” aren’t exactly rushing to get on board:

Fewer than one-third of young, uninsured Americans say they are leaning toward enrolling in a health-care plan under the new Obamacare exchanges, according to a new poll — a number that, if it holds, would present huge problems for the new law.

In order to keep costs down, the Affordable Care Act relies on younger, healthier people signing up for coverage to offset the costs for older, sicker Americans.

But a Harvard University Institute of Politics poll shows just 29 percent of uninsured 18-to-29-year olds say they will definitely (13 percent) or likely (16 percent) enroll in the Obamacare exchanges. When the question describes the law as the “Affordable Care Act” rather than Obamacare, just 25 percent say the are leaning toward enrolling or will enroll.

About the same number say they’re unlikely to or definitely won’t sign up. Another four in 10 say it’s a 50-50 proposition.

Not enrolling would subject these people to a penalty under the individual mandate, but in the law’s first year, the penalty is relatively small.

The slow pace of enrollments among young people has already been cause for concern. The White House has estimated that it needs 40 percent of enrollees to be under 35 years old, but early numbers in states where data is available suggest that that number is closer to about 25 percent.

This is despite ad campaigns that have been geared toward signing young people up. The most notorious of these campaigns featured young men who appeared to be college-age participating in a keg stand.

More broadly, young people’s opinions of the health-care law are pretty much on par with their older cohorts.

Digging deeper into the poll, one finds that these younger Americans have soured both on President Obama and on his signature health care law:

Obama’s approval rating among young Americans is just 41 percent, down 11 points from a year ago, and now tracking with all adults. While 55 percent said they voted for Obama in 2012, only 46 percent said they would do so again.

When asked if they would want to recall various elected officials, 45 percent of millennials said they would oust their member of Congress; 52 percent replied “all members of Congress” should go; and 47 percent said they would recall Obama. The recall-Obama figure was even higher among the youngest millennials, ages 18 to 24, at 52 percent.

While there is no provision for a public recall of U.S. presidents, the poll question revealed just how far Obama has fallen in the eyes of young Americans.

IOP director Trey Grayson called the results a “sea change” attributable to the generation’s outsized and unmet expectations for Obama, as well as their concerns about the economy, Obamacare and government surveillance.

If these numbers hold up, and if it indeed it turns out that Millenials choose to pay the penalty rather than signing up for health insurance, then the Affordable Care Act will indeed have demographic problems going forward. More broadly, though, one wonders if this poll signals a split between the President and a demographic group that was enthusiastically behind him in both 2008 and and 2012. While it’s unlikely that we’d see these Millenials flocking to the GOP until that party changes its attitudes on social issues like same-sex marriage, the fact that they’ve become so burned out on a political leader that had arguably been instrumental in inspiring them to get involved in politics to begin with suggests that they may be likely to return to the previous habits of younger voters in sitting out elections, which is something that could have real consequences for Democrats heading into the 2014 midterms.

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About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway. Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. C. Clavin says:

    And yet you ignored today’s news of a surge since the website, which you have been obsessing over, has been updated.
    The ODS is strong with this one.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 9

  2. Jack says:

    Higher premiums with higher deductibles. Why on earth would they not want this? Next you’ll be telling me they don’t want to live in their moms basement either.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 13

  3. stonetools says:

    Doug trawls the Internet daily for bad news about the ACA so you don’t have to.
    Doug, you do know that Massachusetts was able to sign up enough young people since 2006, despite not having a super duper website in the early years, right? And that in Massachusetts, the young people signed up last?
    We have come out of a month of terrible news about Obamacare. Now that the website is largely fixed, there will be better news and more young people will sign up.
    In the meantime, of course, millions of young people are already signed up for health insurance on their parent’s policies till they are 26-thanks to Obamacare . You forgot about those, right?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 5

  4. David M says:

    It’s simply too early to be worried about this issue. The penalty for 2014 is pretty small and the websites are still a little bit of a work in progress. The final numbers for 2015 are probably the first indicator we’ll have as to how many young people really will sign up.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2

  5. grumpy realist says:

    Doug? “They’re”, not “their”.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

  6. C. Clavin says:

    @David M:
    You are right…but somebody is worried about it.
    Republicans have spent millions trying to convince young people to go without insurance…to be irresponsible…the opposite of Conservative…and now Doug is reporting the results of that effort with glee…the Right Wing Entertainment Complex is faithfully executing it’s duty.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 6

  7. Tyrell says:

    Here is an idea that I think would get young people (30 & younger) to knock the doors down to sign up (60 & younger for that matter): give everyone who signs up a free PS 4, with the following games included – “Ghost Recon”, “Assassins Creed”, and “Black Ops/Zombie “. That is how you reach young people. That is what they spend their money on and time. Incentives – that is what you have to offer!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 12

  8. Jenos Idanian #13 says:

    We tend to make fun of callow, stupid youth, but this is a sign that they aren’t as stupid as we make them out to be.

    1) It’s been repeated, ad nauseam, that the only way ObamaCare can’t work unless young, healthy people sign up for it in large numbers.
    2) “Children” has been defined as “up to age 26″ as far as staying on one’s parents’ health insurance, instead of getting one’s own.
    3) The penalty for not signing up is essentially negligible.

    The conclusion for young people: they are being asked to choose between three choices:

    1) Pay more (probably far more) in insurance than they can expect to collect in benefits.
    2) Talk Mom and/or Dad into carrying them a bit longer.
    3) Pay a little extra on the income tax (less than two video games, or one month’s cell phone bill) and keep going on like they did before.

    Those are the choices they’re being given, and you can’t whine when they take a choice that you don’t approve of. If you didn’t want them to make those choices, then you shouldn’t have presented them as options.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 19

  9. Davebo says:

    What? No “better than expected but still not great” jobs report out today?

    The entire Libertarian (read ashamed Republican) Party has a lot invested in the failure of Obamacare.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 4

  10. Jenos Idanian #13 says:

    @stonetools: Doug trawls the Internet daily for bad news about the ACA so you don’t have to.

    No, Doug trolls the internets daily for stories that make Republicans look bad. (See the stories about the “War on Christmas,” the Vatican embassy silliness, and whatever poll he finds every morning.) Bad news about the ACA? You gotta work to NOT see them.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 19

  11. David M says:

    A similar poll from Gallup has some more information that may clear up this issue a little. If you mention the penalty, more indicate they will sign up. Also, it still appears that the younger GOP leaning voters are a significant portion of the will not sign up group. At some point they will come back to reality, as the GOP fearmongering over Obamacare is becoming less credible every day.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 3

  12. edmondo says:

    The White House has estimated that it needs 40 percent of enrollees to be under 35 years old, but early numbers in states where data is available suggest that that number is closer to about 25 percent

    The rest are just Amish …I know I will be on January 1, 2014.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 12

  13. Matt says:

    Well based upon my completely unscientific method of having conversations with the kids at my college and with family members I can clearly say most think they can’t afford the insurance.

    I will probably not have insurance as my income is too low and Texas refuses to expand medicare. I’m actually poor enough that the fine doesn’t even apply to me.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  14. al-Ameda says:

    Both my daughters are under 30, both are signing up, what’s the big deal here?

    Also, for those of you – primarily conservatives – who don’t know how insurance pools work, younger healthier people generally utilize their insurance less than older people, therefore {{{okay, it’s inference time, now}}}} younger people subsidize older people. This has been going on for years. By the way, it’s why schemes to privatize Medicare will not work – there are no younger people in the pools that can mitigate the cost of insuring senior citizens. As insurance companies know well, seniors are too expensive.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 2

  15. rudderpedals says:

    There’s always some fun fact to find when you click through to the source document.

    Among the 18- 29- year olds currently without health insurance, less than 1/3 say they’re likely to enroll in the exchange (13% say they will definitely enroll, 16% say they will probably enroll); 41% say they are 50-50 at the moment.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0

  16. Stan says:

    @Jenos Idanian #13: If you have adult children without employer provided insurance, will you advise them not to sign up? After all, medical care for a broken leg only runs about $10,000. Much better to have a good smart phone.

    If I remember correctly, the five stages of grief are denial, rage, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Denial was the optimism that Mitt could pull it off. Now we’re in rage. Bargaining will come in a year or so, depression during Hillary’s first term, and acceptance when she’s re-elected.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1

  17. al-Ameda says:

    @Stan:

    @Jenos Idanian #13: If you have adult children without employer provided insurance, will you advise them not to sign up? After all, medical care for a broken leg only runs about $10,000. Much better to have a good smart phone.

    I’m sure that he will advise them to head for the emergency room, because emergency treatment and care will be free for them – though not not so much for the rest of us who are insured.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

  18. edmondo says:

    After all, medical care for a broken leg only runs about $10,000.

    So what good is a bronze plan that has a 40% deductible? it appears that half of working Americans have less than a quarter of that available to them in case of an emergency.

    You guys keep equaling access to shitty insurance policies with access to heathcare. The real problem is Obamacare forces people to pay beaucoup bucks for an insurance policy that they cannot afford to use even if they do get sick. The insurance companies couldn’t have written a better law if they tried. Oh wait, they did.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 8

  19. Jenos Idanian #13 says:

    @Stan: Of course I’d urge all young people to sign up — I need them to subsidize my aging, decrepit ass. The last thing I want them to do is act in their own self-interest, I just need them to do what they’re told and act in mine.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 12

  20. Jenos Idanian #13 says:

    @edmondo: You guys keep equaling access to shitty insurance policies with access to heathcare. The real problem is Obamacare forces people to pay beaucoup bucks for an insurance policy that they cannot afford to use even if they do get sick.

    THIS. Preach it, brother!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 12

  21. David M says:

    @edmondo:

    Seems like you should be reading up on the other cost sharing elements of Obamacare.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

  22. JKB says:

    “… in which too many pregnant women show up in emergency rooms without having had such care, creating problems for themselves and their babies, and all sorts of costs for taxpayers. And I’ll remember to be relieved that my own access to health care is guaranteed. But they had better work out the problems with the A.C.A.; if they don’t, and it doesn’t fulfill its promise of insuring the uninsured, I’m really going to feel like a chump.”

    Seems the young won;t eve go as far as that 59 yr old “chump”. And that is from the New Yorker.

    Now the odd part is that the young they needed to hit their demographics were reportedly going to be male, majority non-white and heavily subsidized. So really they were just a funnel for tax dollars to the insurance companies.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 7

  23. al-Ameda says:

    @Jenos Idanian #13:

    @Stan: Of course I’d urge all young people to sign up — I need them to subsidize my aging, decrepit ass. The last thing I want them to do is act in their own self-interest, I just need them to do what they’re told and act in mine.

    I’m sure that like Ayn Rand, you will turn down Social Security and Medicare, because after all , it is the current younger workers who provide the basis to pay for your benefit payments because there is little likelihood that you paid enough into the system to cover your benefits?

    Oh wait – Ayn Rand didn’t turn down the benefits of a system of enslavement, she accepted them. Never mind.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3

  24. Jenos Idanian #13 says:

    @al-Ameda: You got a problem with me exercising my legal rights and privileges, making choices presented to me by the laws you supported?

    After all, it’s THE LAW OF THE LAND… at least, until Obama decides to redefine it yet again.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 11

  25. Joe R. says:

    In order to keep costs down, the Affordable Care Act relies on younger, healthier people signing up for coverage to offset the costs for older, sicker Americans.

    “Offset” is one way to put it. “Subsidize” is another.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  26. john personna says:

    As you noted before? I thought your expert advice was that the ACA was an unconstitutional mandate, and so no worries.

    (In my experience “1/3 of young” anything will say anything. The real interesting data will be how long they stubbornly pay the tax in place of the insurance. Surely it will get old.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

  27. john personna says:

    @Jenos Idanian #13:

    Nothing makes my day like a wing-nut sore loser.

    All you have is catcalls from the cheap seats, until problems get sorted, and then you have nothing.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2

  28. David M says:

    @john personna:

    The real interesting data will be how long they stubbornly pay the tax in place of the insurance. Surely it will get old.

    The penalty is fairly small in 2014 and I think quite a few people will end up paying it, but a good portion of them will sign up for insurance rather than pay the larger penalty in 2016.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  29. wr says:

    @edmondo: “The rest are just Amish …I know I will be on January 1, 2014.”

    And I’m sure you’ll be just as convincing as you were when you pretended to be a disappointed Obama supporter.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0

  30. al-Ameda says:

    @Jenos Idanian #13:

    @al-Ameda: You got a problem with me exercising my legal rights and privileges, making choices presented to me by the laws you supported?

    No, it is indeed your right and privilege under Social Security and Medicare legislation to avail yourself of the benefit payments that younger workers will in all likelihood be partially subsidizing.

    I must admit, it is interesting to hear the conservative complaint about ACA that it (ACA) is a burden on younger workers, when in fact conservatives seem to have no problem with the burden on younger workers when it comes to Social Security and Medicare.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

  31. Stan says:

    @al-Ameda: It’s not free. Emergency rooms have to offer medical care even if they can’t be paid on the spot, but they’ll come after you later with the bill. If you’re not insured, this will be a very big bill. If you don’t pay the bill, it goes to a bill collector. Eventually it gets reported to the credit rating agencies.

    To repeat, ER care isn’t free, and the bill is much higher if you’re uninsured. You have to be stupid beyond belief to go without health insurance in the US. I wonder, do Jenos Idonian, Doug Mataconis, or others of their ilk have adult kids without health insurance? If so, JI and DM, you’re failing as parents because of your ideology.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

  32. wr says:

    @Stan: ” After all, medical care for a broken leg only runs about $10,000″

    Maybe if you can find a charity ward. Fascinating article in the NYT the other day about how hospital chains are using their monopoly power to jack up prices, so that five stitches costs around $3500. (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-soar-single-stitch-tops-500.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1386198035-0hIrrL8/I/4C+YWS/t9qxw)

    Somehow I suspect a broken leg is going to run a little more than three times that…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  33. J-Dub says:

    Let one uninsured 27 yr. old set his own broken leg as an example. The rest will sign up pretty quickly.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

  34. wr says:

    @Stan: ” Emergency rooms have to offer medical care even if they can’t be paid on the spot, but they’ll come after you later with the bill. If you’re not insured, this will be a very big bill. If you don’t pay the bill, it goes to a bill collector. Eventually it gets reported to the credit rating agencies.”

    Yes, but as Jenos has proudly explained in the past (at another site), if you don’t care about all that noise, you can get the treatment you need for free, stick the taxpayers with the bill, and then whine about all the freeloaders trying to steal your tax money.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0

  35. wr says:

    @J-Dub: “Let one uninsured 27 yr. old set his own broken leg as an example. The rest will sign up pretty quickly.”

    One more advantage of a liberal arts education: Anyone who has ever read As I Lay Dying” will never be tempted to try this…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  36. J-Dub says:

    Offset, subsidy, who gives a shit what you call it? I don’t have any children yet my taxes pay for public schools. Some things are just the responsibility of society as a whole. Education and health care are two of those things.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 0

  37. Pinky says:

    @al-Ameda:

    Also, for those of you – primarily conservatives – who don’t know how insurance pools work, younger healthier people generally utilize their insurance less than older people, therefore {{{okay, it’s inference time, now}}}} younger people subsidize older people. This has been going on for years.

    That doesn’t sound right. Typically, insurance rates have varied by age. Insurance has always been about pooling risk, not shifting costs. The whole point of actuarial statistics is to prevent anyone from paying more than the risk of his age, health, and lifestyle.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3

  38. David M says:

    @Pinky:

    Employer provided health insurance premiums almost never vary by age. The individual premiums on the exchanges do vary by age.

    What’s the complaint here, that Obamacare should have radically changed how employer provided health insurance premiums work?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  39. Pinky says:

    @David M: Not going for a point, really. Just pointing out something that sounded wrong.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4

  40. mantis says:

    Looking at the actual poll, these numbers are for all young people, not just the uninsured.

    57. Do you have health insurance?
    Yes, my employer provides it …………………… 27%
    Yes, I am under 26 and covered by parents .. 35%
    Yes, I have an individual or family plan …….. 12%
    No, I am not enrolled in health insurance …… 22%
    Refused …………………………………………………. 4%

    74% already have insurance. 29% say they will likely get insurance through the exchanges. This is a problem? Nonsense.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

  41. David M says:

    @Pinky:

    Also, for those of you – primarily conservatives – who don’t know how insurance pools work, younger healthier people generally utilize their insurance less than older people, therefore {{{okay, it’s inference time, now}}}} younger people subsidize older people. This has been going on for years.

    There’s absolutely nothing in that statement that should sound wrong. You probably need to read the beginning of the quote again.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

  42. stonetools says:

    I will probably not have insurance as my income is too low and Texas refuses to expand medicare. I’m actually poor enough that the fine doesn’t even apply to me

    Wonder when Doug is going to post on the Republican governors’ stupid, selfish policy of refusing to extend Medicaid, thus victimizing poor and working class people by denying them health insurance. I guess that’s just not as important as the WEBSITE! scandal, which looks likely to take its place along BENGHAZI! and IRS! as fake scandals that were originally supposed to end Obama’s presidency. Come to think of it, Doug did post a lot on BENGHAZI! till even he saw how silly it is.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  43. john personna says:

    @wr:

    I did actually set my own distal radial fracture. I held some hope that it was a dislocation, but no, pulling it out and setting it back didn’t really fix everything.

    The doc, after looking at the x-ray, said I did a good job, and that he’d cast it and leave it.

    As a fan of the old Danny Kaye “Walter Mitty,” this made my day.

    Ta-pocketa, Ta-pocketa, Ta-pocketa ,…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  44. Tyrell says:

    @David M: @David M: From what I have read about this “penalty” is that theoretically it only affects a small number of people who would be getting large refunds. Most young people are probably not going to get a large refund. Most will not get any refund. Most do not even file.
    The best way, as I have said before, to get that age to do anything is some sort of incentive or “reward”. Remember this is the age that only knows rewards and consequences. That is what they got in school. The days of writing a sentence a hundred times went out in the 1980′s. Now it is stickers, points, parties, field trips, movies, candy, and homework passes if you follow a rule for a while or show improvement. Consequence might be to take a note home to parents or lose 5 minutes of recess (it is now against regulations in most states to take a student’s play time away – they need the exercise).
    Sorry for rambling and digressing from the main point. It is the convenience store coffee.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

  45. john personna says:

    @Pinky:

    The whole point of actuarial statistics is to prevent anyone from paying more than the risk of his age, health, and lifestyle.

    So .. these kids today who ride fixies and wear no helmet … that would be “lifestyle?”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  46. grumpy realist says:

    @David M: And how. I was finally incented to move on to my employer’s health care plan (too lazy before) when I hit 50 and the monthly charges suddenly shot up by $200.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  47. David M says:

    @Tyrell:

    From what I have read about this “penalty” is that theoretically it only affects a small number of people who would be getting large refunds. Most young people are probably not going to get a large refund. Most will not get any refund. Most do not even file.

    I’m not sure the evidence will bear that out. Most federal employer withholding rates are set up to make sure people get a refund instead of a surprise tax bill.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  48. al-Ameda says:

    @Stan:

    @al-Ameda: It’s not free. Emergency rooms have to offer medical care even if they can’t be paid on the spot, but they’ll come after you later with the bill. If you’re not insured, this will be a very big bill. If you don’t pay the bill, it goes to a bill collector. Eventually it gets reported to the credit rating agencies.

    Thanks Stan, I do understand that. What I do not understand is the unwillingness of conservatives to support the insurance mandate that is designed to encourage personal responsibility.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

  49. wr says:

    @john personna: You are my action hero of the day, sir!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  50. wr says:

    @Tyrell: “Most young people are probably not going to get a large refund. Most will not get any refund. Most do not even file.”

    What’s it like back in the mid-20th century? Is the weather good there?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  51. al-Ameda says:

    @Pinky:

    That doesn’t sound right. Typically, insurance rates have varied by age. Insurance has always been about pooling risk, not shifting costs. The whole point of actuarial statistics is to prevent anyone from paying more than the risk of his age, health, and lifestyle

    Actually, for years most employers have offered health insurance plans that were one-size-fits-all plan coverage – for employee, employee+spouse, and family – that were irrespective of age. What that meant was, for employee coverage only, younger employees were most certainly paying a higher rate than they otherwise would have, had the rates been age-banded. Again, this is nothing new.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  52. john personna says:

    @wr:

    lol

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  53. C. Clavin says:

    @al-Ameda:
    And of course they are Federally subsidized.
    But let’s keep Government out of Health Care.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  54. C. Clavin says:

    @stonetools:
    Um… Never.
    It goes against the pre-determined narrative.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  55. John Burgess says:

    This has an easy executive fix.

    Just require all individuals to have ACA policies, no free-loading on their parents’ policies. When every two- and three-year-old ponies up a couple of grand a year, the numbers will move into the black.

    If that doesn’t quite reach goals, then the individual insurance policy requirements can kick in at conception — or viability, if that’s how you swing.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

  56. Dave D says:

    The amount of contempt some of the posters have for millennials is bizarre. Sure there are aspects of my generation that is annoying or worthless but that was true for every other generation before us and will be true after. However, whenever these conservatives shed their crocodile tears that we will be subsidizing the elderly on Obamacare I start to get frustrated. It was these assholes who relegated our generation to fund everything about the boomer lifestyle. Historically low taxes, a huge military, two wars, Medicare, Social Security, etc. The Boomers have proven to be the most harmful generation to this country. They took all the great things their parents fought for (social safety net) and refused to fund it all while exploding the military and debt. But now the ACA is where they draw the line give me a break. Instead of agreeing to any tax increase at all they bitch and moan about freedom while having spent the last 40 years robbing future generations of theirs. But hey, the classic libertarian argument is I get mine. Effectively the most prosperous and influential period in all of American History (post War) was wasted, degraded and leveraged for low taxation. And now they want to start cutting benefits for us while saying we need to keep the government out of their SS. It is a shame this disenchantment is likely to reduce the voting numbers of my generation because if we were smart we would give the blue hairs a run for their money at the polls and maybe someone besides Elizabeth Warren would genuinely give a shit about our demographic.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 0

  57. JKB says:

    @John Burgess: If that doesn’t quite reach goals, then the individual insurance policy requirements can kick in at conception — or viability, if that’s how you swing.

    Don’t you worry that they’ll argue that if they must purchase health insurance they should have the protection of the murder laws? That could interfere with the abortion coverage.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

  58. I am reminded of back in the day when the bureaucrats insisted that 40 percent of the current federal workforce would switch from the old CSRS retirement system to the new FERS system, which after all, broadened the base for social security. The reality was 2 percent. Not then, nor now, will people be anxious to pay more for less. For the vast majority (including the most responsible) of the American people Obamacare is a counter productive monstrosity that’s going down in flames.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

  59. David M says:

    @Let’s Be Free:

    For the vast majority (including the most responsible) of the American people Obamacare is a counter productive monstrosity

    Care to explain this in more detail? Be sure to include the people who are now covered on their parents policies until age 26, the ones with pre-existing conditions, the ones getting significant subsidies and the ones newly covered by the Medicaid expansion. You probably should also mention the ones previously paying higher costs for the free riders as well. I am quite interested to hear how these people are worse off.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  60. Matt says:

    @Stan: Stupid has nothing to do with it. The cheapest plan I can find will eat over a 1/3rd of my income. How the hell am I supposed to pay for school and survive with that kind of a cost?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

  61. Matt says:

    @J-Dub: Yeah lets screw that 27 year old over by forcing him to pay 1/3rd of his income from two jobs while he’s trying to get through college. That sounds like a grand plan..

    And if he doesn’t pay for the overpriced insurance we’ll just screw him over harder after the fact!!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 7

  62. David M says:

    @Matt:

    Yeah lets screw that 27 year old over by forcing him to pay 1/3rd of his income from two jobs while he’s trying to get through college.

    Come on, the basics of the program are well known by now, so garbage like this is just ridiculous.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4

  63. C. Clavin says:

    @Matt:
    If that is true then certainly you qualify for subsidies… If not actually Medicaid.
    You should probably spend more time looking around and less Time whining.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

  64. Tyrell says:

    @wr: I have a relative who thought she sprained her ankle and went to the emergency room (big mistake). After 5 hours of waiting in a crowded emergency room, she was treated, she settled up, and left. No break , just a sprain. $1400 for 2 x rays, a “cast” (a brace, $20 local pharmacy), and prescription for pain medication (never filled). The deductible didn’t cover, so she set up payments. A few months later she told her doctor about it and he said had she gone to his office, same treatment would have run $300 or so. There is something wrong somewhere. Of course, a big mistake to go to the er.
    They need to do something about those er’s. People will show up with a sore throat, bring their 6 kids, friends, grandparents, and 3 neighbors. This creates a lot of racket, and they bring in a bunch of food, leaving trash everywhere.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  65. C. Clavin says:

    @Tyrell:
    And yet when you whine about Obamacare you are advocating sticking with the same old system.
    Everyone has complaints.
    Not everyone has solutions.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  66. David M says:

    @Matt:

    Stupid has nothing to do with it. The cheapest plan I can find will eat over a 1/3rd of my income. How the hell am I supposed to pay for school and survive with that kind of a cost?

    There may be a little bit of a misunderstanding here. That’s a Republican Medicaid expansion problem, not an Obamacare problem. That was always a key part of law, and it’s unfortunate the GOP is holding it back.

    However, even the GOP states will have to accept the expansion at some point, as not accepting it will cause some pretty big financial problems for the hospitals there. The Medicaid expansion was also accompanied by a reduction of payments meant to offset the costs from treating uninsured patients. So not expanding Medicaid means hospitals in those states are in worse shape than they should be.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

  67. Stan says:

    @Matt: I’m sorry to hear that, and I wonder if you’ve tried the Kaiser foundation site to see if you can find something affordable, say a bronze plan. I think there’s also a site called healthsherpa.com that might be useful. One last point – even if you get a plan with a high deductible, you’ll benefit from having insurance because the rates for medical care are usually lower if you have insurance. In any event, good luck.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  68. Just 'nutha' ig'rant cracker says:

    @Stan: In my situation, I went to the emergency room and got a bill. When I noted that my income for that year had been $15,000, the hospital cut the hospital charge by 50% and the cardiologist stopped sending me bills at all. The only company that asked for full payment was 911 emergency services–which had been privatized in my county the year before as a “cost cutting measure” by the county government,.

    Had I decided to declare bankruptcy (which was advised by a bankruptcy attorney at the time) they would have all been told to pound sand. The bill would have been ruled uncollectable. I liked my credit rating, so I fired up the Visa and paid 12%+ on the unpaid balance for 3 years.

    And I all lived happily ever after–but would still like to see a reasonable single payer plan such as the one that I have now in Korea so that nobody needs to get stiffed or charge some other individual more to make back getting stiffed.

    By the way, the insurance shared cost thingy works in approximately reverse as it relates to young people and auto insurance. During my early life, I racked up in charges payable to me much more than I paid in premiums and after I turned 40, I have never needed to claim anything (yes, I am very lucky, also, but the main reason is that young drivers make more mistakes driving just as older fogies such as myself get sick more often). It all balances out. They pay higher than necessary health care premiums, I pay (much) higher than necessary auto premiums. (These days, I mostly rent cars when I am in the states and pay about six months premiums for 2 weeks of coverage from the rental company.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  69. Just 'nutha' ig'rant cracker says:

    @Dave D: Well said! (Well actually a little ranty, but as I noted to one of my friends recently–we boomers are indeed unique as a generation, we single handedly crashed the economy of the entire globe and trashed the planet–in one generation, no less!)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  70. Stan says:

    @edmondo: The value of having insurance, even a Bronze plan, is that it lowers the cost of medical treatment. The cost of medical procedures depends on who’s paying, and insurance companies pay less than individuals.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  71. David M says:

    To be clear, the Republican decision to reject the Medicaid expansion is really screwing over a lot of people, for no reason. The last estimate I saw was something like 5 million people in those states left with basically no real options. This is a far bigger issue than the (mostly) phony rate shock complaints, but somehow the GOP (and media by extension) don’t seem to care.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

  72. Jenos Idanian #13 says:

    @al-Ameda: I must admit, it is interesting to hear the conservative complaint about ACA that it (ACA) is a burden on younger workers, when in fact conservatives seem to have no problem with the burden on younger workers when it comes to Social Security and Medicare.

    Not a complaint, just a simple acknowledgement of fact. It is what it is.

    Until, of course, Obama deems to redefine it again. Then all bets are off.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 11

  73. Bob @ Youngstown says:

    @David M:

    To be clear, the Republican decision to reject the Medicaid expansion is really screwing over a lot of people, for no reason. …This is a far bigger issue…

    I wish I could upvote that about 50 times !!!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

  74. Moderate Mom says:

    @wr: Thirteen years ago my daughter had an accident on a trampoline, resulting in an open tib-fib fracture. Two surgeries and five days in the hospital later, the bill totaled $35,000. $10,000 to fix a broken leg? Doubtful.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  75. Matt says:

    @C. Clavin: Your arrogance is quite astounding and unnecessary. I already stated that medicaid/medicare will not cover me. You would know this if you read my post instead of getting into self righteous I KNOW EVERYTHING mode. Yes I do qualify for subsidies but the subsidies are so pathetic that I still end up paying too much. Did you even try to see what plans you can get in south Texas with an income just above the poverty level before posting? No of course not you’d rather pretend I’m just whining for no reason. I’m surprised that in your jump to conclusions that you didn’t label me a right winger or something..

    @David M: No it’s not a misunderstanding for me as I know what it’s about. The state of Texas is ran by (deleted) that prefer to keep the states high rate of uninsured rather then allow a sensible change to occur. What do you expect from a state that intentionally made it’s own government as inefficient as possible? IF they did expand Medicaid then none of this would be a problem. Unfortunately I don’t have the means to remove myself from this state. The best I can do is finish off my degree and then try to find a job in another state. By that point it probably won’t matter though.

    @Stan: That was the site I used to try to figure out a way to make it work sense the primary site is unreliable (well up till a couple weeks ago).

    I just wanted single payer or medicare for all. Instead we get this terribly designed give away to the private insurance industry…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

  76. James Pearce says:

    More Obamacare? Sheesh. Even Obamacare is bored of Obamacare.

    One thing is clear: Obamacare is neither the rousing success its biggest supporters were hoping for, nor is it the unmitigated disaster its biggest opponents have made it out to be.

    I spent the month of November growing a mustache (it rules!) because someone told me it was for cancer or something.

    I vow to spend the month of December NOT reading Obamacare stories for the same reason. Stand up to cancer: Don’t read about Obamacare.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  77. Matt says:

    @James Pearce: I knew it was going to end up like this because there’s basically no way to get anything through the federal government that would benefit the American people without having some powerful industry benefiting too…

    Soon as I heard “single payer is off the table” I knew the American people were sold out. I’m mad brah..

    I support your quest but since you won’t be able to read this I can only hope my spirit is felt!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  78. James Pearce says:

    @Matt:

    I support your quest but since you won’t be able to read this I can only hope my spirit is felt!

    Oh, I’ll read the comments all night.

    But I’m over the daily trickle of “Obamacare isn’t perfect” stories. We’re past the point where the law will be repealed or scaled back or amended. The only thing left is to make it work, and that’s true for all the conservatives and liberals in government, as well as all the libertarians that are not.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  79. Grewgills says:

    @Matt:
    I’m a bit surprised your college doesn’t offer some sort of medical care. Every college I have attended did (even in AL).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  80. anjin-san says:

    @ Jenos

    The last thing I want them to do is act in their own self-interest,

    Having health insurance is in anyones interest. When I was 19, I broke my ankle (badly) skiing. I was damn lucky my mother had me on her policy, or I would have started young adulthood many thousands in the hole. Young people are reckless, and they tend to get injured as a result.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  81. David M says:

    @Grewgills:

    I’m a bit surprised your college doesn’t offer some sort of medical care. Every college I have attended did (even in AL).

    I’d be surprised if some or even most colleges weren’t dropping the (minimal) health insurance policies they had been offering, as there’s really no reason for them after Obamacare. Refusing to expand Medicaid really does throw a wrench into things.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  82. anjin-san says:

    @ Jeno

    You got a problem with me exercising my legal rights

    No, you have the right to remain stupid.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  83. David M says:

    @Matt:

    Yes I do qualify for subsidies but the subsidies are so pathetic that I still end up paying too much. Did you even try to see what plans you can get in south Texas with an income just above the poverty level

    Can you clarify what’s going on here? What you’re saying doesn’t add up anymore, as people near the poverty line also have much, much lower co-payments, deductibles and out of pocket expenses. This applies to silver plans only, and probably will not be clear until well into the application process.

    Which county in Texas and what general income level?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  84. superdestroyer says:

    @al-Ameda:

    To actually call the system insurance is a lie. When no actuarial concepts are used, it is not insurance. It is justa pre=payment system within a government mandate system.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  85. superdestroyer says:

    @Stan:

    If think that by the end of a second HRC Administration (even though I find it odd that Americans will be excited about a 78 y/o woman leaving office) no only will the U.S. be a one party state due to demographic change but most Americans will be every depressed about the future.

    Image a country were only about 40% of adults pay income taxes, where more than 50% of children are born to single mothers, where the birthrate among the middle and upper middle class will be well below replacement, and where the public schools are considered a waste land.

    The only thing that will help the U.S. is that the countries that can outcompete the U.S. in the global marketplace will have lower birthrates than the U.S.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  86. James Pearce says:

    @superdestroyer:

    “Image a country were only about 40% of adults pay income taxes”

    Hey, that’s down 7% from where it was last year, according to the Institute of Totally Made-Up Statistics.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  87. Stan says:

    @Matt: You’re in a bad situation, and I’m sorry if anything I said was offensive. In your case the problem isn’t the design of the Affordable Care Act, it’s the heartlessness of the Texas political establishment. Are there any nongovernmental organizations that might help?
    Again, best of luck.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  88. Stan says:

    @superdestroyer: I’ve seen your posts before on how demographic changes will doom the US, and I have to say that they resemble the dreck eugenicists were writing back in the early 1900′s about how the US would be doomed by the immigration of inferior races. If you google “dreck” you’ll see I’m from one of the inferior groups.

    I agree with you about how the Republican party isn’t going to fare well later in the 21st century. Has it occurred to you that maybe the party should try to broaden its appeal? One of the reasons the Democrats dominated American politics for so long is that immigrant groups regarded Republicans as hostile, and rightfully so. It’s happening again, and for the same reason. Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  89. grumpy realist says:

    @superdestroyer: Well, John McCain, at 83, is supposedly excited about the possibility of running for POTUS……

    Maybe all politicians should be put out to pasture at 70 years of age and banned from showing up on any talk show. Gotta get the dead wood out somehow.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  90. wr says:

    @Dave D: I entirely agree with you about the weird contempt for millenials, but I wish you hadn’t then transitioned to boomer-loathing. Classifying any huge chunk of our population by its “generation” is simply stupid and lazy thinking.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  91. wr says:

    @Tyrell: “They need to do something about those er’s.”

    They have. It’s called the Affordable Care Act. You may know it as Obamacare.

    The reason ERs get so crowded with non-emergences is because this is frequently the only treatment available to uninsured people — they are guaranteed treatment there.

    Now that most Americans will be able to get coverage — well, unless they live in a state where the Republican governor has refused the Medicaid expansion — the ERs should go back to being used for emergencies…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  92. David M says:

    @Matt:

    You’ve indicated that you both qualify for the Medicaid expansion (which Texas is rejecting) and subsidies, so that puts your income yearly approximately between $12,000 and $16,000.

    I checked the Kaiser calculator for a single person making $14,000 in a state not expanding Medicaid, and there were two options:

    Silver plan premium is $23/month and out of pocket maximum is $2250 (or less)
    Bronze plan premium is $0/month and out of pocket maximum is probably $6350

    The silver plan will have significantly lower deductibles and co-payment amounts, so it will probably be a better deal if you use any medical services at all.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  93. Dave D says:

    @wr: My apologies, it was a bit ranty and reactionary to consistently seeing my age group shit on. And I agree generalizations do do a disservice to any message.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  94. wr says:

    @Dave D: And I owe you an apology. In rereading my response it would have been easy to see it as me calling you stupid, and that absolutely wasnt my intent. I was very impressed with what you had to say about millenial bashing.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  95. superdestroyer says:

    @grumpy realist:

    Maybe the alternative is that voters should stop voting for people who are over 70 or for those who have been in the same office for multiple decades. However, as the U.S. becomes a one party state, sending the same person back to office for decades will probably be the smart play in order to help one’s representative build up seniority.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  96. Al says:

    @Stan:

    The first sentence of your post is redundant.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  97. Matt says:

    @Grewgills: Small community college which in return for cheap classes has a bare-bones experience. Also I’m in Texas where most if not all those in power seem to want as many uninsured as possible..

    @anjin-san: THis is why I don’t ski, skateboard, or anything that might be remotely physically dangerous anymore. It’s a boring life but it keeps me slightly in the black.

    @David M: It makes perfect sense if you’ve experienced it yourself. I’m a single white male who makes a little above what’s considered poverty level for me. As such I have minimal assistance opportunities as I don’t have a kid and I’m not a minority.

    Using the KAiser website I tried to get the cheapest plan I could and even it was too costly for me to hope to afford. At the time I was using my estimated income for the year for the two jobs and financial assistance I am eligible for. I no longer have one of those jobs as it was a fast food job that fired me instead of allowing me some time to deal with a shingles outbreak (I was just barely in the probational period still where they can fire you for no reason). Yes I managed to get shingles as a young person. It was a nasty experience covering my left arm and part of my neck. I’ve never experienced that much pain not even when I ripped the end of my finger off or broke bones (it was on par with being stabbed over and over).

    Nueces county

    @Stan: First off there’s no reason for you to apologize at all. I have been a fairly angry person lately when it comes to the system. So I’m sorry if that anger bled over into my correspondence with you.

    There’s no real help for me as I’m a white male without a child. I’m not used to asking for help so it’s taken some effort for me to get over the pride aspect so that I could start asking. I’m still looking though and I might find something. I did get a free turkey so while my thanksgiving consisted of me and ramen I was able to have turkey sandwiches the next day. I’ve never cooked a turkey so I spent a day figuring out how to do it on the cheap. Turned out quite well and I just turned the drippings/broth and half the meat into turkey soup last night (the other half is in the freezer).

    I also know that I’m in a (deleted) of a state that doesn’t care about the regular people.

    @David M: Wait where did you find that? WHen I checked the kaiser site months ago there was no plan like that. When I looked even the bronze plan had a monthly fee well over $23.

    I’m going to check the site again later tonight when I have more time and report what I find. If I can replicate your results then I’ll be fine with that.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  98. Matt says:

    My comment is stuck in moderation hell..

    I can only figure that they have added plans to the site since I last checked many months ago.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  99. David M says:

    @Matt:

    I’ve never claimed Obamacare isn’t overly complicated and confusing, only that it’s better than the other option of doing nothing.

    http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

    I hope you find something that works for you! I’m fairly sure the kaiser calculator is reasonably accurate, it matches what I’ve seen on my state run exchange here in Washington. I think “income” is only what you claim on the 1040 form when you file taxes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  100. Matt says:

    @David M: That was the site I used several months ago. Back when the real site wasn’t working at all.

    They must of added more plans since then. I shouldn’t be surprised as something like that tends to be a work in progress. I’ll check when I get home to see.

    I’m only against “obamacare” because it didn’t go far enough.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  101. Matt says:

    I just checked and indeed the rates have changed since last time.

    I’m guessing it was the result of incomplete data at the time. Since now it’s showing a subsidy that didn’t exist before.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0