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No, Immigrants Aren’t Taking Your Job

border-immigrants-crossing

A new study challenges a conclusion at the center of the anti-immigration passions that have propelled Donald Trump’s campaign for President. the idea that immigrants take jobs away from Americans:

Do immigrants take jobs from Americans and lower their wages by working for less?

The answer, according to a report published on Wednesday by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine, is no, immigrants do not take American jobs — but with some caveats.

The question is at the heart of the furious debate over immigration that has divided the country and polarized the presidential race. Many American workers, struggling to recover from the recession, have said they feel squeezed out by immigrants.

Donald J. Trump, the Republican nominee, has called for a crackdown on illegal immigrants, saying they “compete directly against vulnerable American workers.” He promises to cut back legal immigration with new controls he says would “boost wages and ensure open jobs are offered to American workers first.”

Hillary Clinton, his Democratic rival, takes an upbeat view, saying immigrants contribute to the economy whether they are here legally or not, by providing labor for American employers and opening businesses that create jobs for Americans rather than taking them.

The report assembles research from 14 leading economists, demographers and other scholars, including some, like Marta Tienda of Princeton, who write favorably about the impacts of immigration and others who are skeptical of its benefits, like George J. Borjas, a Harvard economist. Here’s what the report says:

• “We found little to no negative effects on overall wages and employment of native-born workers in the longer term,” said Francine D. Blau, an economics professor at Cornell University who led the group that produced the 550-page report.

• Some immigrants who arrived in earlier generations, but were still in the same low-wage labor markets as foreigners just coming to the country, earned less and had more trouble finding jobs because of the competition with newer arrivals.

• Teenagers who did not finish high school also saw their hours of work reduced by immigrants, although not their ability to find jobs. Professor Blau said economists had found many reasons that young people who drop out of high school struggle to find work. “There is no indication immigration is the major factor,” she said.

• High-skilled immigrants, especially in technology and science, who have come in larger numbers in recent years, had a significant “positive impact” on Americans with skills, and also on working-class Americans. They spurred innovation, helping to create jobs.

“The prospects for long-run economic growth in the United States would be considerably dimmed without the contributions of high-skilled immigrants,” the report said. It did not focus on American technology workers, many of whom have been displaced from their jobs in recent years by immigrants on temporary visas.

These conclusions shouldn’t really come as much of a shock to anyone who’s paid attention to this issue over the years, of course. While the traditional populist opposition to immigration has centered on the idea that people who come to the United States, whether legally or illegally, are taking jobs away from Americans due to their willingness to work for lower wages and in more physically demanding jobs than most Americans. In reality, it is readily apparent that immigrants end up taking jobs that Americans are unwilling to do at any price, but which are nonetheless essential to the economy in one way or the other. We learned this lesson several years ago when Georgia and Alabama followed Arizona’s example and passed laws purporting to crack down on illegal immigrants. The result was that even legal immigrants became fearful of how they would be treated under the new law and many immigrants of both classes ended up leaving those respective states rather than risk confrontations with the law. The result was predictable. Farmers found it difficult to hire people to pick crops no matter how much they offered for the work, the people they did hire to replace the immigrants who had been performing the work were not nearly as reliable as the immigrants who had previously had the job, and in many cases crops were left to rot in the field unpicked because there was nobody willing to do farm work which must still be done by hand. The restaurant industry also found itself impacted by the new laws, especially when it came to finding workers willing to work long hours in the kitchen or as dishwashers or in similar positions. And this was happening in the wake of the Great Recession when the unemployment rate was still at or near double digits. If Americans aren’t willing to take jobs like this even in dire circumstances, it’s hardly surprising that employers would turn to immigrants, legal or illegal, to get the job done. (See my coverage of the Georgia and Alabama story here, here, here, and here.)

Of course, this doesn’t mean that immigrants have no impact on employment or that there aren’t some economic groups impacted by the role they place in the economy. People at the bottom of the labor market, especially those with few or no marketable skills or no High School Diploma, In reality, though, this group has always been the most vulnerable to economic pressures and social changes that have an impact on the economy so it seems rather unfair to pick immigrants out as the one group most responsible for this group’s plight. Furthermore, to some extent this group has only itself to blame for its predicament(s), especially to the extent that the reason for their presence at the bottom of the economic ladder is due to something like failure to stay in school and obtain a diploma. Choices have consequences, and that is the lesson the economy is teaching them. In the long run, though, and as far as the economy as a whole is concerned it seems clear that immigrants are a net plus to the economy even for the workers they may end up competing against. In part this is because they force some people to improve their skills and qualifications so they can compete more effectively, and in part it’s because these new workers help to increase consumer demand in the economy as a whole.

The report is available for purchase, or free download in PDF form, at this link.

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About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway. Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. An Interested Party says:

    If people are so worried about jobs disappearing, perhaps they should look at multinational corporations that want to squeeze out the most possible profits by sending jobs previously done in this country to other places with cheaper labor…

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 31 Thumb down 0

  2. reid says:

    Studies? Facts? Those things don’t faze Trump or his followers. It reminds me of the rabble mobs in South Park: “Jerrrbs!!”

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 13

  3. Amanda says:

    I have been saying this for years..how can they be taking jobs, that no American wants?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 17

  4. barbintheboonies says:

    In some cases they are wrong I would say in service industries, such as maid services in hospitals hotels. Most of the home builders and landscapers. Many of these jobs were not high paying but hospital benefits made the jobs desirable to many that had no formal education. It is hard to get these jobs now because whenever they need people somebody inside has a family member who just came here that needs a job.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4

  5. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @barbintheboonies: Did you read the bullet point:

    Teenagers who did not finish high school also saw their hours of work reduced by immigrants, although not their ability to find jobs.

    Is this what you are saying that they got wrong?

    I’d also note that most of the home builders and landscapers I’ve had contact with do not offer hospital benefits other than “on the job” injury coverage to their temporary (or seasonal) laborers.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  6. Bc says:

    OK, if they are not taking jobs from the citizens, then they are on Government Welfare. Now, we are paying them to do nothing.

    Poorly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 32

  7. cian says:

    The economic argument is a handy stick to beat immigrants with and allows those who wish to disparage them permission to do so without sounding racist. Unemployment in Britain at the time of Brexit was 5%. In other words, anyone who wanted a job could likely get one. And yet the Leave campaign pushed the ‘they’re taking our jobs’ line for all it was worth and it paid off. It’s about the perception of power, who has it and who’s losing it. White America, just like white Britain, believes it is losing, and they are, but not to immigrants. They’re losing to corporate liars and cheats like Donald Trump, Heather Bresch and John Stumpf, and don’t even know it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 6

  8. quityourbullshit says:

    Are you kidding me? Trump is not against immigrants, he’s against illegal immigrants. This study was about immigrants not taking Americans jobs, it wasn’t about illegal immigrants.

    You see, we vet and only let a certain amount of immgrants in and the ones that come here on a work visa are taking the jobs that can’t be filled. It’s like you liberals can’t understand the difference between legal in illegal.

    Poorly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 35

  9. quityourbullshit says:

    Are you kidding me? Trump is not against immigrants, he’s against illegal immigrants. This study was about immigrants not taking Americans jobs, it wasn’t about illegal immigrants.

    You see, we vet and only let a certain amount of immgrants in and the ones that come here on a work visa are taking the jobs that can’t be filled. It’s like you liberals can’t understand the difference between legal in illegal.

    Poorly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 30

  10. gVOR08 says:

    @cian: The most credible analysis of the Brexit vote that I’ve seen says it was really passed by old people who wanted to protect the National Health Service. The pro-Brexit people said leaving the EU would free up huge funds for the NHS. That was a flat out lie, but people believed it.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0

  11. Andrew says:

    @cian:

    They’re losing to corporate liars and cheats like Donald Trump, Heather Bresch and John Stumpf, and don’t even know it.

    It is because these people aspire to be rich and powerful, just like those who you have listed. It is hard to find anyone willing to point the finger at someone who they emulate.
    Also known as punching down. Trump is very knowledgeable in this regard.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  12. Ivy says:

    @quityourbullshit: typical Rump supporter ignoring the facts. Your orange idol clearly uses the temporary work visas to staff Mar a Lago and other service endeavors, service jobs that can EASILY be filled by any citizen. We can expect him to use anything that gets him ahead on the backs of the little people, immigrant or citizen.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 3

  13. michael reynolds says:

    @quityourbullshit:

    Illegal immigrants take the jobs furthest down the food chain, the jobs literally no one wants: mucking out cesspools, caring for small children, day labor. You want to go stand outside Home Depot all day in hopes that some guy in a pick-up truck will pay you less than minimum wage? No, you don’t, and I don’t.

    If you really want to stop illegal immigrants from taking even those jobs, no problem: require all employers, even casual one-off employers, to use an e-verify system. It’s really not hard. It’s an app. Back it up with stiff civil penalties. If Harry Househusband knows that hiring an off-the-books immigrant will cost him his house, he’ll hire through an agency.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 35 Thumb down 2

  14. C. Clavin says:

    @quityourbullshit:

    Are you kidding me? Trump is not against immigrants, he’s against illegal immigrants.

    Are you kidding me? Trump hires illegal immigrants.
    Gawd damn, you Trumpies have been so hornswoggled, it’s almost unbelievable.
    You will believe anything that Orange Comb-Over says. Which is hilarious…because he’s on both sides of every issue. Iraq, abortion, taxes, immigration, the Constitution.
    What’s it like to fall pray to a con-man?
    Do you ever get embarrassed by it?
    Just wondering if you are ever self-aware enough to know your a dupe.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 3

  15. Jc says:

    @quityourbullshit:

    You see, we vet and only let a certain amount of immgrants in and the ones that come here on a work visa are taking the jobs that can’t be filled.

    Yeah, that is another topic – H1B Visas, the amount of H1B’s in the US right now is more likely to expand and those people are filling jobs that could be filled by qualified citizens much of the time. But they are cheaper and Tech Co’s and GOP push for more of these visas rather than investing in talent and training in the U.S., they import cheaper labor from overseas.

    Are you kidding me? Trump is not against immigrants

    Unless they are supermodels from Eastern Europe, yes, he is. Uh, his whole ban on immigration from “certain”areas he deems unsafe…which is anywhere but Trump Tower for him.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 2

  16. Mister Bluster says:

    @barbintheboonies:..It is hard to get these jobs now because whenever they need people somebody inside has a family member who just came here that needs a job.

    Please provide the names of ten people that you know “who just came here” that got their jobs in this manner.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  17. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Bc:

    then they are on Government Welfare

    Could you provide some proof of that?
    And while you are at it please break down the number of illegal aliens versus legal aliens that are collecting , and what type of welfare

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

  18. Mister Bluster says:

    @Bob@Youngstown:..I’d also note that most of the home builders and landscapers I’ve had contact with do not offer hospital benefits other than “on the job” injury coverage to their temporary (or seasonal) laborers.

    “on the job” injury coverage aka workman’s compensation.
    I worked in the landline telephone industry for 35 years. For most of that time I was not an employee of a landline telephone company.
    Every job I had was temporary. I was either self employed or worked for someone who had a contract to provide labor to a landline telephone company. In every one of the 14 states I worked, the state mandated I be covered by workman’s comp. One way or another I paid for it myself.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

  19. Tom says:

    “Farmers found it difficult to hire people to pick crops no matter how much they offered for the work, the people they did hire to replace the immigrants who had been performing the work were not nearly as reliable as the immigrants who had previously had the job, and in many cases crops were left to rot in the field unpicked because there was nobody willing to do farm work which must still be done by hand.”

    Other than “stories”, is there any wage and employment data to support the claim made above. Show the rising farm wage data and falling farm employment data in these states. I won’t be holding my breath waiting for a data source backing up this ludicrous claim.

    Employers are notorious for claiming that they can’t find workers to do the job at any price. But when the occupational or industry data is examined to back up their claims, it is never found.

    “The restaurant industry also found itself impacted by the new laws, especially when it came to finding workers willing to work long hours in the kitchen or as dishwashers or in similar positions.”

    Show the occupational wage data that backs up this claim of rising wages but falling employment. Show me the data.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5

  20. barbintheboonies says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: Hospitals do offer benefits My sister works in one and the majority of employees that work in housekeeping are from other countries, mostly Hispanic. Many American men and women supporting families on their own without education would love that job.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

  21. SenyorDave says:

    @C. Clavin: What’s it like to fall pray to a con-man?
    Do you ever get embarrassed by it?
    Just wondering if you are ever self-aware enough to know your a dupe.

    i THINK Amarillo Slim said it best in his advice to aspiring poker players:

    Choose the right opponents. If you don’t see a sucker at the table, you’re it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  22. barbintheboonies says:

    I also would like to add this Although many immigrants are hard working citizens, many are on the welfare system having kids they cannot afford to feed, educate, or pay for when they need to go to hospital. We have an epidemic of homeless already we need to stop ignoring this problem. Take a trip to the welfare office spend the day it may open your eyes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 11

  23. barbintheboonies says:

    @Mister Bluster: I worked in electronics for years I cannot count how many Asian people I know who got their jobs this way Most of these people became my friends and they were very hard working, but they did get a job that an American would have got otherwise.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8

  24. CIan says:

    @gVOR08:

    Same thing really- They,re taking all our beds.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  25. C. Clavin says:

    @SenyorDave:
    Yes…and I mis-spelled prey.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  26. J-Dub says:

    Professor Blau said economists had found many reasons that young people who drop out of high school struggle to find work.

    I’d like to see their list of reasons. I’m sure it’s pretty amusing.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  27. XRavishX says:

    I noticed the wording is “immigrant” and not “legal immigrant” or “illegal immigrant.” My issue isn’t with the legal ones. It’s with the ILLEGAL ones. This study seems to clump all of it together which only welcomes disparity in their claims since I see no way they able to properly track illegal immigrants and have them account for their numbers. This tells me they’re only talking about LEGAL immigrants which is not the problem.

    It only makes sense that illegal immigrants put a strain on the economy and put a strain on legal citizens finding jobs. You aren’t going to find a whole lot of very skilled, highly educated illegal immigrants because those people stick out like a sore thumb. Try paying someone $100k a year under the table. Yeah, right.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 14

  28. Jc says:

    It only makes sense that illegal immigrants put a strain on the economy and put a strain on legal citizens finding jobs.

    If that is the case then why are there so many job openings (non-farm) currently this year so far the average is 5.6 Million, higher than any other average the past 15 years. Also, you would think unemployment would be out of control. Yet during 1990-2007, where the illegal immigration population went from 3.5 Million to 12.2 Million, the unemployment rate was little changed hovering on average around where we are at right now. Not to mention since that peak illegal immigration number, the total illegal immigrants has actually declined some.

    What puts a strain on citizens finding jobs, is that their jobs are no longer here. The jobs they did are gone or are being, or have been, replaced by cheaper labor overseas, automation etc…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

  29. Chichibonster says:

    Who paid for this study? Hillary Clinton? I know several Americans who got fired from their jobs so their boss could hire 2 or 3 illegals for less than one person made. The idea that they take jobs Americans don’t want is absurd, because believe me, the people I know wanted their jobs.

    Poorly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 17

  30. barbintheboonies says:

    The other issue is this immigrants put a strain on our country by putting in less than what they take out. We have enough Americans who do that to us already, we do not need more. In some countries you need to have a skill that is needed that their having trouble finding. All people have to do here is drop a kid and they can stay In my opinion this needs to change. I believe people who were born here need to start taking responsibility for themselves too. They rely too much on the government to save them and in a lot of cases it`s more than one or two kids that we take care of. Then we have those who feel we must hire tutors for those who speak no English. I worked with one guy who had 8 kids making a little over minimum wage They received food stamps, section 8 housing and I`m sure health care for all. I am not a mean person, and I know it is not the kid`s fault, but when do we say enough.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 13

  31. barbintheboonies says:

    @XRavishX: Try the drug trade

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6

  32. Jc says:

    I worked with one guy who had 8 kids making a little over minimum wage They received food stamps, section 8 housing and I`m sure health care for all. I am not a mean person, and I know it is not the kid`s fault, but when do we say enough.

    So what is your solution to this? Have them live in the streets, not vaccinated and starving. Sounds like your “enough” is basically live in a slum – Or do you prefer the China route and limit people to how many kids they can have?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  33. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Mister Bluster: exactly my point, but I suspect that barbie has confused that kind of “coverage” with “hospital benefits”
    @barbintheboonies: I made no comment on hospital housekeeping because I’ve no actual experience with it. That said,is your complaint with immigrants that are authorized to be in this country or unauthorized?
    I would hope that your community hospitals, being good community leaders, and probably receiving Federal funding in some manner would verify legal status of it’s employees.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  34. michael reynolds says:

    @Chichibonster:

    I don’t believe you. I think you made that up. Tell me the jobs your friends were holding that they lost to illegals. What occupation?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  35. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Chichibonster:

    I know several Americans who got fired from their jobs so their boss could hire 2 or 3 illegals for less than one person made.

    As an American patriot and good citizen you should file a formal complaint that this employer is hiring persons unauthorized to be in the United States. You might even get a reward.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

  36. RetiredGunsUSMC says:

    Wow, they went out and spoke to a few unknowing people, and those protecting Illegal Labor, because it DOES impact their bottom line, in their Business. So, knowing they have an Ulterior motive, beforehand, how about a first hand account, from, well, me! They need to talk to me, and so many others I know who were directly effected by Illegal Labor! I was in the New Home Building Industry in San Diego County, after I Retired from the USMC, in the Mid 90’s, on! The Number one issue I had in that environment was the fact I could not communicate with the workers, ALL Illegal for sure! Secondly, the Employer I had actually was attempting to negotiate LOWER wages for those of us who were Citizens, or face being replaced by Illegals, imagine that? I had so many Craftsmen, who were driven out of Mexafornia, because their entire Industry was displaced by Illegals. I moved out of Mexafornia for good, it is a lost cause, the way I saw it, and so many more too! So, now I am in Pennsylvania, you’d think it would be better? Nope they are invading our workforce in droves, right here! Speak up folks, open your eyes, we will no longer have a country left if we allow our Labor to be Imported, AND Exported!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 17

  37. Andrew says:

    There a many solutions to cracking down on businesses hiring undocumented workers. National ID. Penalizing or fining companies that do these hires. Regularly auditing businesses to make sure everything is on the up and up.

    But…of course that would be government overreach to many. Therefore nothing gets done. Especially if it means the government stepping in. So..yeah. Good luck conquering the problem. Building a giant wall sure would help with millionaires flying in people on work visas and paying them money that could go to American workers…oh, wait..

    Either the government implements more red tape to reel in these practices, or it continues to placate to businesses. One or the other. Choose.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

  38. barbintheboonies says:

    @Jc: No maybe we should keep going on as we are as if nothing is wrong. Then we keep paying for the irresponsible people who think this is their right You cannot be serious unless you are one of them.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7

  39. Davebo says:

    @quityourbullshit:

    You see, we vet and only let a certain amount of immgrants in and the ones that come here on a work visa are taking the jobs that can’t be filled.

    You really can’t be that naive right? I can point out, just for instance, at least 50 accounting types within a 12 mile radius of where I am working here on a Visa.

    Do you think we have that big of an accountant shortage? Talk to immigration lawyers who help arrange these visas. The honest ones will set you straight.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

  40. barbintheboonies says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: I am sure they are legal, but that is not the point It is immigrants taking American jobs … Booby

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 9

  41. michael reynolds says:

    @barbintheboonies:

    If strain on the system is the issue, why single out illegals? You want to know who is crushing the system? Me and people like me: old people. In a couple years taxpayers will be writing me checks. And that could go on for 30 years. (Less if I keep smoking cigars.)

    Immigrants are chickenfeed compared to the burden we lay on society – including on immigrants who we need to pay the taxes to support our boomer carcasses since we all stopped procreating. We have an inverted pyramid: a huge number of old farts on benefits, supported by fewer and fewer people at the bottom. Are you going to have an extra couple of kids who’ll grow up to wipe my ass in the old folk’s home while simultaneously being taxed to support me?

    Americans need to wise up. The only population growth we get is from immigrants, legal or not. Someone needs to flesh out the bottom of the pyramid or we collapse.

    The truth is that we exploit Mexicans as much as the other way around. The only reason we still have an agricultural sector is because we exploit cheap labor from across the border, and then send them home before they can start collecting social security. We use them to perform lousy jobs for lousy pay, with the profits flowing into white bank accounts. And then we piss on them and call them rapists.

    Yes, all immigration should be legal. I absolutely believe we have a right to control our own borders. But that said we cannot run this country right now without Mexican immigrants both legal and not. We are aging, we are not having babies, and I have not yet heard your plan for dealing with that.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2

  42. barbintheboonies says:

    @michael reynolds: I do not have all the answers but wrong is wrong I guess we do what our ancestors did we rely on family The less we rely on government the better. I do like single payer health care where we all put in what we can afford but we do need to budget our lives like our household If you cannot take care of yourself then you cannot take care of kids. I come here for answers and to express my opinion and I know I am not always right but I do this not for likes but to get to the heart of things.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 10

  43. Jc says:

    @barbintheboonies: This is typical GOP – We have a problem here, its going to end us all – our solution? our plan? (crickets) You did not answer the question. People with no ideas flock to those with no ideas, just snake oil and hubris

    The total Income Security expenditure and total health expenditures to all outlays has been between 20-25% of all outlays for the past 25 years. If these supposed freeloaders are an economic epidemic as you say, and the fed aid is egregiously too generous – I guess I am just not seeing it. you see your coworker as representative of some widespread reality, which he is not

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

  44. barbintheboonies says:

    @michael reynolds: I do not piss on anyone or call them rapist I wish their country would do more for them.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

  45. michael reynolds says:

    @RetiredGunsUSMC:

    You are full of it up to your ears. I live in Marin County, land of 3% unemployment. You want a job? Come on up. Because I’ll be goddamned if I can get anyone to do anything. Plumbers, carpenters, handymen, waiters, health aides, drivers, we need them all, and we’d be happy to hire you. As it happens I’m having some work done on the house and have yet to speak to a single contractor with brown skin or a Hispanic accent. Nothing but white folks. Frankly, we could use some immigrants.

    Here you go, a link to a Craigslist ad. They’re offering a thousand dollar bonus for a driver who’ll sign up. You’ll also find carpentry jobs listed.

    Here’s one, I’d link but the spam filter doesn’t like it. But here you go:

    We are looking for a working Foreman and Journeyman to join our construction crew. Please be aware that we have high standards for the people who work for our Company. You must be able to read plans, have a truck and tools, be organized, run a job site, or be able to work under a Foreman, self motivated and drug free. We are also looking for a Finish Carpenter and Apprentice. Must have tools and truck.

    Oh, just one teensy problem: it’s very, very expensive here. So you won’t mind sharing a two bedroom apartment with eight other guys, right? Because that’s what immigrants do to hold down a job here. Are you willing to do that? I’m going to guess no.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 0

  46. barbintheboonies says:

    @Jc: Wrong I am not a Republican I am not a Democrat either Do not assume anything I am a realist and am somewhere in the middle Tell me what is your solution and maybe I`ll agree with you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6

  47. bill says:

    @An Interested Party: yeah, like ford, apple, nike,etc. -but they all throw money at liberal causes so they aren’t held accountable. heck, i rarely ever see those annoying “anti-monsanto” memes anymore…..same reason.

    but back to reality- illegal immigrants take jobs that our spoiled society deem “undesirable” and in many areas the public assistance available will make taking such jobs unwise. so we prop up people who say they’ll work, but really won’t if they don’t have to.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8

  48. Jc says:

    @barbintheboonies:

    but we do need to budget our lives like our household If you cannot take care of yourself then you cannot take care of kids.

    Poor people are not the only folks who have this problem – I know plenty of people with money that can fall into this sentence. I understand your want for people to take responsibility, I have the same want for the mortgage fraud that occurred not too long ago and for those that perpetuated it, profited from it and were not held accountable in the least to be held responsible, but that didn’t happen

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  49. wr says:

    @barbintheboonies: Hey Barb — 1983 called.. It wants its welfare queen back.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

  50. wr says:

    @RetiredGunsUSMC: “The Number one issue I had in that environment was the fact I could not communicate with the workers”

    Did it ever occur to you to learn a little Spanish?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  51. barbintheboonies says:

    @wr: Okay what`s that even mean.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7

  52. barbintheboonies says:

    @Jc: Yes I agree I always want a safety net for people We all have needed a hand one time or another, and I never want to see children hurt. I just want people to start making the choice to do better for them. and others.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  53. wr says:

    @michael reynolds: Big article in the Times the other day about how the boom is beginning to kill the restaurant industry. Rents are so high that a mid-priced restaurant can’t afford its space any more. And if they can, they can’t get people to work in the kitchen because no one can live (read: pay rent) on a cook or dishwasher’s salary. So the ultra high end is doing fine, the super low end is hanging on, but that nice bistro down the street is closing down and the chef is going to work in some tech company’s cafeteria. Don’t know what the answer is, but it’s sad to see…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  54. wr says:

    @barbintheboonies: Sigh. It means you’re repeating the same old Ronald Reagan bromides designed to put down the poor. Most of his lovely anecdotes were complete fiction, but he managed to slash support for needy people anyway, because he had the help of people like you — who are so eager to kick down when the real problems are caused by those who have much, much more money and power than either you or the immigrants. In fact, you have much more in common with the immigrants — but just like the white hicks in the south who will put up with any kind of economic deprivation as long as the rich folks keep telling them they’re better than the blacks, you’ll fight against any kind of meaningful improvement in our society as long as “those people” get it worse than you.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

  55. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @barbintheboonies:

    I am sure they are legal, but that is not the point It is immigrants taking American jobs

    Thanks, just need to know which basket you habitate, so we’ll put you in the Anti-Immigrant one. I’m sure your ancestors would be proud.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

  56. wr says:

    @barbintheboonies: “I just want people to start making the choice to do better for them. and others”

    And now you are spouting the right-wing notion that poverty is a moral failure and the fault of the poor. Good going — you keep fighting for the ones who want to keep you poor, weak and stupid!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

  57. barbintheboonies says:

    @wr: Check out Portland Oregon homeless some are working but cannot afford to live in the city Rents are out of sight, but companies think minimum wage is too much They keep moving them out of their tent cities but they have no place to go. Any suggestions?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

  58. Guarneri says:

    Clearly illegal immigrants should be recruited for the nation’s police forces, jobs which, increasingly, Americans don’t want.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  59. barbintheboonies says:

    @wr: Not I am not spouting any such thing Maybe an analogy will help. You get 100.00 to pay for items but you see that beautiful outfit for 1000.00 so you put it on credit now you do this over and over until you say okay maybe I`ll claim bankruptcy and let someone else pay for it. Now if this was your relative would you lend him money.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8

  60. barbintheboonies says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: Maybe I am native american

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6

  61. barbintheboonies says:

    @wr: Where do you get this stuff I am not anti poor and am not a Ronald Reagan lover in fact I could not stand him and his trickle down BS but what is wrong with me saying you need to at least try to do for yourself instead of expecting others to constantly bale you out. I think I just have to believe we will not see eye to eye on this subject maybe you want people to stay down if it makes you feel better good.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

  62. Lance says:

    It’s not a question of taking our jobs, you idiot. It’s poorly-educated brownskins who have no intention of assimilating into American culture given voting ‘rights’ by democrats destroying what’s left of the culture. This is America. We have American culture. We are not a ‘multi-cultural’ country. You come to America, it had better be legally and you’d better be coming to BECOME an American.
    “You’re a racist!”
    For saying brownskin? How many whites do you see entering our country illegally?
    Jesus Christ, I have a Mexican flop house across the street, bringing down property values. Cars all over the right-of-way, trash they can’t even manage to pick up and a turnover in ‘tennants’ that don’t speak a lick of English. Last Christmas, they were cutting up a slaughtered goat or pig right on the oak tree out front.

    Poorly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 18

  63. Mr. Bluster says:

    @michael reynolds…(Less if I keep smoking cigars.)

    My earliest memories of Grandpa Brown are of him walking home from the Chicago and Eastern Illinois RR Boilerworks carrying his lunch pail and smoking a cigar. When he retired he sat in a big easy chair in front of the TV and watched The Three Stooges, laughed his ass off and smoked cigars.
    Every year on his birthday and at Christmas everyone got Butch a box of cigars. I don’t think he ever had to buy any.
    Sometime in his early 80’s he said the doctor told him to quit or emphysema would kill him.
    He did. Cold turkey.
    He was 95 when he died in 1982.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  64. wr says:

    @barbintheboonies: To me, the key phrase is “companies think minimum wage is too much.” Force the companies to pay the actual costs of their labor — which is to say, enough to live on. If the company can’t stay in business actually covering its expenses, then it should go bankrupt and make room for a competent one.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  65. wr says:

    @barbintheboonies: What a lovely analogy. Of course, all it does is say exactly what you claim not to be saying — that the poor are wasteful and stupid and totally responsible for their own poverty, which is caused by their lack of morality. But I guess I can’t expect you to understand what you’re saying when you can’t even spell at a fifth grade level…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

  66. wr says:

    @Lance: ” How many whites do you see entering our country illegally?”

    Ever been to LA? New York? Lots of illegal Brits and other white Europeans. But I guess if you never leave Hog Wallow, you wouldn’t know that.

    Hint: If you ever a visit people actually want to live in, you’ll find all sorts and colors of illegals.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

  67. wr says:

    @Lance: “Jesus Christ, I have a Mexican flop house across the street, bringing down property values. Cars all over the right-of-way, trash they can’t even manage to pick up and a turnover in ‘tennants’ that don’t speak a lick of English. Last Christmas, they were cutting up a slaughtered goat or pig right on the oak tree out front.”

    Okay, so here’s the problem: It’s not that you live in a “Mexican” neighborhood, it’s that you live in a POOR neighborhood. You want to see something better? Get a job that pays better than seven bucks an hour and move. Or get to know your Mexican neighbors and help improve the neighborhood you’ve got, instead of trashing them.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

  68. barbintheboonies says:

    @wr: Now that is something we can agree on

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  69. barbintheboonies says:

    @wr: Sorry I am not as smart as you

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

  70. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @barbintheboonies:

    Maybe I am native american

    That you are full blooded Native American (unblemished by immigrant’s genes) is possible, but rather unlikely.
    If you are truly full blooded NA, then you need no other reason to view immigrants (legal or otherwise) with disdain.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  71. Mikey says:

    @Lance: I don’t believe any of this. It’s all made-up racist bullshit. Especially the garbage about killing a goat out front.

    Fvck off back to Stormfront. We already have a couple trolls here and they are much better at it than you are.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

  72. DrDaveT says:

    @Lance:

    We have American culture. We are not a ‘multi-cultural’ country.

    Right, there’s nothing multicultural at all about American culture. What could be less multicultural than a cold lager with your pizza and nachos at a ballgame where half of the players are Dominican?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  73. Lance says:

    Oh. I didn’t realize this was a leftist site. I’m arguing with simplistic morons.

    Mikey, I don’t give two shits what you believe. You’re a typical leftist screaming “RACIST!”

    Yeah, DrDave, and all those different items you just described all came with the non-integrating character who sells them. I’m talking people, not food from a foreign land. IF it were food, we’d be starving because we’ve only been a country for 240 years.
    We have a decidedly unique culture, we ostensibly have borders and we have a common language, you clown. Too bad we don’t have a government to enforce two of those.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8

  74. michilines says:

    @Lance:
    It’s clearly not a leftist site. Just looking through a few of the current posts would tell you that. However, the commenters are mostly a logical group of many political persuasions.

    The reason you got called out is that what you described doesn’t happen in the front yard. I have friends who have slaughtered goats for Christmas, but it was always in the backyard. That was the first indicator that you were either exaggerating or lying.

    Food is part of culture. “Our” early ancestors WERE starving. Without the advice of Native Americans, you wouldn’t be here to comment on a blog. There have been influences on our culture from the beginning. Do you not know why our government is set up differently than any other democracy, modern or ancient? Do you even know the influence that Native Americans (possibly not barbintheboonies) had on our republic system of government? Dude, you don’t even know what you are arguing.

    A variety of cultures have always had an influence on American culture. That we absorb them and adapt is our STRENGTH not a weakness.

    Continue driving your pickup with the truck nuts and think you are original. You are out of your league here.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

  75. Dave Schuler says:

    It’s more complicated than that, Doug, and more complicated than Michael is suggesting.

    As Borjas’s work has demonstrated, immigrant workers depress the wages of the workers with whom they compete. A 10% in the number of workers in a group lowers the wages of that group by at least 3%. That’s true whether the workers are day laborers, IT workers, or doctors of medicine.

    If you lower the wages for any job far enough, there’s no job that native-born Americans will do. Let me give an example.

    Workers in the meat-packing plants of the upper Midwest used to be almost entirely native-born. Now they’re almost entirely foreign-born. First, Hispanic and now Somalis. Those jobs used to pay well, well enough to support middle class lifestyles—not the “bottom of the food chain” jobs Michael alludes to. Those jobs have become bottom of the food chain jobs because their wages have been depressed by immigrant labor.

    Also, tell the IT workers at Disney who were forced to train their replacements, outsourced H1-B workers, that immigrants aren’t taking their jobs. I don’t know how large those numbers are. I do know of at least two companies (Disney and DuPont) where that has happened and the workers have been silenced by their employment contracts. I don’t know if that’s statistically significant but I do know it’s happening and practically impossible for researchers to detect.

    Finally, I know at first hand that increasing the number of minimum wage workers changes the nature of the jobs that are on offer. Rather than investing in machinery or training, so that jobs that require more skills and pay more are produced, companies simplify jobs so they can be performed by low-skilled workers who can’t protest or demand higher pay because they know they’ll be replaced by the next cohort of low-skill workers. That particular business model requires a reliable ongoing supply of low-skill workers.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

  76. grumpy realist says:

    @Dave Schuler: Dave, it was worse than that. The meat handlers redesigned the jobs so that something that used to be skilled work was reshaped into work for unskilled labor. Then they dropped the salaries and surprise, surprise, the only people who would take the jobs were immigrants.

    American corporations are being very short-sighted. Yeah, go ahead and make everything robot/unskilled labor. Who is going to purchase your products if few Americans are making decent salaries?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  77. Chad says:

    So I guess Americans don’t want to do IT or tech jobs anymore either, huh? It won’t be too much longer until Americans don’t want to be CEO’s either 😀

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

  78. KM says:

    @Lance:

    For saying brownskin? How many whites do you see entering our country illegally?

    Every goddamn day. Some of us live near the northern border – America is bigger then Texas, you know. It always amazes me that there’s no call to build a wall in the north when you can literally walk through some quiet woods and come out in a nice ND town a few miles away. Really, the Great Lakes/ Seaway only blocks about 40% of the border and as we’ve seen with the Rio Grande, rivers aren’t always a barrier. Take a walk around Niagara Falls and see how many people dared the International Railway Bridge or just took a small boat across the lake and walked away. Hell, in one place in VT, you walk into the library in Canada and walk out in the USA!

    It’s insanely easy to enter, stay and work illegally in this country if you’re white. Ask Melania Trump if you need further details…..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

  79. barbintheboonies says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: I said maybe I am, but since you asked; No I am not full Blooded Native American in fact not much at all. My great grandparents came from various parts of Europe when our country was in need of workers to work in their factories and build bridges and roads. This was a time when you worked hard and did not get government assistance. Times have changed since then some good some bad, but our world cannot sustain itself with this growing population. It is time to scale back or we will not have a livable world to live in. Why is this such a bad thing to people like you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

  80. MarkedMan says:

    The eternal Winger complaint “Those hispanics are lazy freeloaders who won’t work and they are taking all our jobs!”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

  81. Grumpy Realist says:

    @MarkedMan: similar to what was said historically about the Irish, the Germans, the Eastern Europeans, the….

    In fact, similar comments were said about the Oakies during the Dust Bowl migrations….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  82. barbintheboonies says:

    @MarkedMan: Winger? I cannot understand why we cannot disagree on certain subjects. Why should we be put in a right or left category? We are American with different points of view on some subjects, but we may agree on others. How did our country get this way. It is like we are in some sort of game to score points Take a side your either in all the way or your the other guy it`s insanity.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  83. Blue Galangal says:

    Wow, for a minute there I thought I wandered into the comments section on ABC by mistake.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  84. CB says:

    @michilines:

    You, I like you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  85. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Dave Schuler:

    Those jobs have become bottom of the food chain jobs because their wages have been depressed by immigrant labor.

    Immigrants forced the employers to pay lower wages???

    Alternatively, employers could pay lower wages because there was an available pool of workers that would be willing to accept depressed wages.

    I’m thinking that the causative factor here is employers taking advantage of labor, rather than labor forcing employers.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  86. Stefan Beeli says:

    This article is put out by industry lobbyist and is filled with misleading statements.

    If someone takes your job — then they’ve taken your job ! How can it have no impact.

    What about the IT workers at Disney that had to train their replacements ???

    What about the IT workers at SCE that had to train their replacements ???

    They lost their jobs – not because they couldn’t do it, but because they got an immigrant to do it for less.

    This article is an outright pack of lies!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

  87. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @barbintheboonies:

    our world cannot sustain itself with this growing population. It is time to scale back or we will not have a livable world to live in.

    Our discussion has morphed from immigrants allegedly “taking our” jobs to global population control?????

    BTW, My grandmother immigrated from Austria-Hungary in 1905 when she was sixteen. Her reason was to help support her family back in the “old world”. She found work as a “girl”, assistant to a maid to a wealthy industrial family. She was not needed to help build roads and bridges, nor work in factories. She found her “need” in providing creature comforts to the well-to-do. Her job duties could have been performed by any available US farm girl who was willing to work hard.
    In short she was needed because she was cheap labor. Her motivation: to help her parents keep their home in Austria-Hungary.

    I’m not convinced that the principle factors of “desire for cheap labor” and “motivation to work” have changed much in the past 120 years.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

  88. Andre Kenji says:

    1-) Immigrants may take jobs, but they also CREATE jobs when they consume. Even when they send remittances home they create jobs, because these countries import a lot of things from the US.

    2-) In some sense, decreasing wages for low skilled work is an asset, not a liability. That helps American companies to stay competitive against low income countries that have lower wages. The problem is that you can´t have a very comfortable life doing unskilled work in today´s world.

    In today´s world, the phrase “industrialized country” is very different from the 70´s, when it was used to a bunch of countries, mostly in Europe and North America.

    3-) Birth rates are falling in most Middle and Low Income countries. Even on Africa is falling, and it´s bellow replacement level. That´s not a problem.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  89. gVOR08 says:

    @Chichibonster: @barbintheboonies: @RetiredGunsUSMC: @Stefan Beeli:
    This is what I find so depressing in modern politics and what makes discourse impossible. The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine had “14 leading economists, demographers and other scholars” do a serious study of the overall impact of immigration and you just reject it out of hand because gut feel, anecdote, simplistic reasoning. You don’t like the conclusion, so it must be false. How is anyone supposed to talk to you when you insist on having your own facts?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2

  90. Bill says:

    So then the high unemployment is strictly due to Obama’s failed policies…..ok..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7

  91. Andre Kenji says:

    There is no high unemployment. There is high underemployment, but that´s a completely different issue, and that has no correlation with immigration.,

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  92. gVOR08 says:

    @Bill:
    A – Unemployment is not high.
    B – What remains is due to the financial collapse of ’08 and the subsequent recession. (It was in all the papers.)
    C – Do you practice a lot or were you just born this dumb?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  93. michael reynolds says:

    @Mr. Bluster:

    And George Burns lived to 100.

    Fortunately I’ve never developed a physical addiction because I don’t inhale. This also reduces the odds of emphysema etc… pretty dramatically. Of course when you add in the whiskey, the weed, the sun and the lack of exercise I should be dead within a few years.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  94. MBunge says:

    I didn’t see that anyone linked to this, so here is an analysis of the report by one of the people who was on the panel that prepared it. As you might guess, he basically rips the “immigration is the bestest thing EVAH” claim to shreds.

    https://gborjas.org/2016/09/21/a-users-guide-to-the-2016-nas-immigration-report/

    Mike

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  95. grumpy realist says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: There’s also the tendency of employers whining about not being able to hire workers at the wages they’re willing to pay and this shows how we need to open the door for HB-1 visa holders. Or something.

    Boggles the mind it does. These are the same people who insist on supply-demand curves for everything else in business, but somehow labor isn’t supposed to hold to the same rule?

    If you can’t find employees at the salaries you’re offering, RAISE THE SALARIES.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

  96. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @MBunge:

    he basically rips the “immigration is the bestest thing EVAH” claim to shreds.

    Huh? I didn’t get that impression at all from your link. In fact I don’t find anywhere that he refers to the ‘immigration is best thing ever’, so I don’t see where he rips into that notion.
    Salient is his “bottom line” that I quote: “it seems evident (at least to me) that the bottom line is very simple: The economic impact of immigration is, at best, a net wash for the average native-born person.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  97. MBunge says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: In fact I don’t find anywhere that he refers to the ‘immigration is best thing ever’

    Welcome to the thread! You might want to read it and consider the people, like Doug, who have seized on the supposed evidence of this study to beat anti-immigration/immigration reform people over the head. Notice how the title of Doug’s post was NOT “Yes, immigrants might not be that great for America.”

    Mike

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

  98. wr says:

    @MBunge: So to your mind, any statement that isn’t “immigrants are the worstest thing ever” is actually “I love immigrants.” Good times.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  99. Stefan Beeli says:

    @gVOR08:
    What about the H1B replacement hiring at SCE and Disney ? Those are well known facts. Not “my own facts”.

    What do you have to say about those two specific situations?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  100. Stefan Beeli says:

    @Andre Kenji:
    Can you stop talking in vague generalities and give us some high-tech job creation numbers vs high-tech jobs that have gone to immigrants (instead of Citizens).

    Once you do that then we can compare apples.

    It will also probably make you realize that you and this study are just plain wrong.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  101. gVOR08 says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: @MBunge: The author of M’s link, one of the authors of the study, also says,

    But even though the mythical average person is unaffected, some groups gain a lot and some groups lose a lot.

    Now this could be taken as a condemnation of immigration, but you can say the same thing about a lot of things: free trade, trade agreements (not the same thing), our tax code, our lousy corporate governance, our lax regulation of banking, automation, etc.. The take away should be that we need to do something about our gross economic inequality.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  102. Jen says:

    @grumpy realist:

    If you can’t find employees at the salaries you’re offering, RAISE THE SALARIES.

    Or take a hard look at your HR function and/or change the job requirements. One twist in the “automation of everything” is that many HR offices now use software to pre-screen applications. The software depends on keyword matching, and if the person doing the programming/entry puts in too many or too restrictive keywords, it dumps applications that would otherwise be good candidates.

    Another thing that gets under my skin are the job descriptions with “must have” skills that boil down to “unless you are currently working in the exact same position for a competitor, don’t apply.” Companies are no longer willing to spend any money at all to do even minor, basic training–they expect people, even in entry-level jobs, to come in on day 1 and do the job with no introduction.

    For some jobs, they’d have an easier time hiring if they looked for comparable or transferable skills, rather than exact matches. I think it’s HR being lazy in part.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  103. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: In that case, you missed the money quote part of the statement:
    “The gains accruing from the immigrants’ productive contributions are probably offset by the fiscal burden. But even though the mythical average person is unaffected, some groups gain a lot and some groups lose a lot. (emphasis added).”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  104. MBunge says:

    Off topic, but remember when some of you guys had nice things to say about Cruz pointedly not endorsing Trump at the convention? How it not only said something positive about Cruz’ character but was actually a smart political move?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/politics/ted-cruz-endorses-donald-trump/

    Mike

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  105. KM says:

    @Stefan Beeli :

    What about the H1B replacement hiring at SCE and Disney ? Those are well known facts. Not “my own facts”.

    They are here legally – Trump’s policies and the vaunted Wall will not keep them out. In fact, I think he’s currently in favor of H1B visas but he’s flip-flopped on this so much it’s hard to tell – no magic savior there. Capitalism thrives on this kind of thing and businesses demand this program exist (let alone expand it continually). It’s not going away because greed is king in this country and always has been.

    Other then proving liberals right that when cons whine about “illegals” they really mean ALL immigration, what is your point in bringing this up continually? Demand Big Business not be allowed to outsource, hire foreigners or move offshore all you want; might as well demand the tide to halt. Your beef is with Wall Street, not 1600 Penn Ave.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  106. KM says:

    @MBunge:

    Damning someone with faint praise is hardly saying something nice. Bless your heart and all that.

    Still, I’m surprised. Cruz is all about Cruz and seemed to be setting himself up to reign in RWNJ-land after the Trumpoclypse. Wonder what the price was for his tattered dignity? Hope he kept the receipt for a refund…..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  107. Andre Kenji says:

    @Stefan Beeli: Any number like that for the “high-tech industry” is meaningless, because high-tech is a global industry. You don´t need to bring immigrants when they can work from home or when you can create a lab in Toronto or Mumbai. You also risk that the next Facebook is created in Mumbai, not in California or New York.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  108. wr says:

    @MBunge: “Off topic, but remember when some of you guys had nice things to say about Cruz pointedly not endorsing Trump at the convention? How it not only said something positive about Cruz’ character but was actually a smart political move?”

    Umm, no. What I remember people saying is “what a nasty, self-centered prick — he’s exactly what Trump deserves.”

    Nice straw man, though.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  109. Stefan Beeli says:

    @KM:
    Thank you for pointing out the crux of the problem.

    “They are here legally” It is legal, but that doesn’t make it right.

    The law has been written to help big business.

    Those were good jobs held by Americans that trained their replacements.

    They lost their jobs to immigrants only because the immigrants were cheaper. Not because they couldn’t find any qualified candidates. Remember — they TRAINED their replacements. And all of this was legal.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  110. grumpy realist says:

    @Jen: Oh, don’t get me started on HR silliness…..The best one I ran into was:

    hello, we need you to do these things [List X\

    I read the list, and realize that it is going to require the skills and credentials of a bilingual patent attorney. Bilingual in Japanese and English, at that.

    The salary offered was roughly 1/4 of what I estimated the going market rate would be.

    Idiots.

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  111. Mister Bluster says:

    @michael reynolds:..And George Burns lived to 100.

    Say goodnight Gracie.

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  112. gVOR08 says:

    @Stefan Beeli: What about it? Are you saying these details invalidate the study?

    Yes, besides “gut feel, anecdote, simplistic reasoning” there’s also picking some nit and claiming it invalidates a larger case.

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  113. Steve Verdon says:

    @An Interested Party: Because you do not promote trade by restricting trade.

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  114. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Just ‘nutha ig’rant cracker: yes I read that and took it to mean that the NET impact of immigration is neutral. IMO that is not highly critical of the study, hardly a “rips into”.
    BTW, Borjas article does not bother to indentify the subset of the subset that ‘loses a lot’. I wonder if the members of that group have made choices that will insure that they remain at the bottom of the economic ladder.

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  115. barbintheboonies says:

    @gVOR08: When it impacts you personally then you get it. If you are one of the lucky ones you don`t

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  116. barbintheboonies says:

    We are all becoming pawns

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