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Of Course The Birthers Aren’t Satisfied

If anyone thought that President Obama’s release of his long-form birth certificate yesterday would actually change the minds of the hard-core birthers, they were kidding themselves:

It proves nothing. It could be fake. It’s all so fishy. Aren’t there multiple layers on the scanned document released by the White House? Why did it take so long to produce?

The people who do not believe that President Obama was born in the United States showed Wednesday that a good conspiracy theory is like a coal mine fire: something that can’t be doused in a day.

The president, pestered by “birthers” since he began running for the White House, finally felt compelled to try to put an end to the controversy, providing his original birth certificate for the first time.

“Yes, in fact, I was born in Hawaii, August 4, 1961, in Kapiolani Hospital,” Obama told the White House press corps, before going on to demand an end to the “silliness” about his birthplace that he fears has distracted the country from urgent policy matters involving wars, the federal debt and the economy.

But he added: “I know that there’s going to be a segment of people for which, no matter what we put out, this issue will not be put to rest.”

Correct. The birthers, far from chastised, found themselves newly energized and freshly suspicious.

“It raises far more questions than it answers,” said Joseph Farah, editor in chief of WorldNetDaily and birther extraordinaire, almost breathless between media interviews.

Farah, whose online publication has run hundreds of articles over the past couple of years questioning Obama’s citizenship, professed delight at the latest development. So did real estate tycoon Donald Trump, who has found that raising questions about Obama’s legitimacy is political jet fuel for someone pondering a presidential run.

Instead of finally admitting they were wrong, the birthers are simply changing their argument:

Orly Taitz, a prominent Obama critic who has questioned his birthplace, told Talking Points Memo that she thinks the newly released document is questionable because Obama’s father’s race is listed as “African.”

“It sounds like it would be written today, in the age of political correctness, and not in 1961, when they wrote white or Asian or ‘Negro,’ ” Taitz said.

At one hotbed of birtherism, the certificate appeased no one.

“You know as well as I do that you can produce a fraudulent form,” said Sharon Guthrie, legislative director for Texas state Rep. Leo Berman (R), who has introduced a bill that would require that anyone running in Texas for president provide an original birth certificate proving American citizenship.

Obama’s birth was announced in two local newspapers, and his campaign released a short form of his birth certificate when he ran for office. But the long form of the document remained under wraps in a vault until the president dispatched a lawyer last week to retrieve it.

Guthrie argued that the document Obama produced on Wednesday is not a birth certificate but merely a “certificate of live birth,” which she considers something different.

Said Farah of WorldNetDaily: “I think we should do due diligence there and examine it before we jump to conclusions that, because a government official handed something out, it is legit.”

He said that even if the document is real, it raises questions about Obama’s eligibility to be president. Farah contended that, because Obama’s father was from Africa, the president may have had “dual citizenship” and therefore may not meet the definition of a “natural-born” citizen, the eligibility requirement in the Constitution. He suggested that it is necessary to revisit the intentions of the Framers.

He added: “This has never been an issue exclusively about where Barack Obama was born.”

No, it hasn’t. From the beginning, there has always been two parts to the birther argument. One part did indeed question whether Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, which is why the Obama campaign released the original COLB back in 2007. That didn’t satisfy the birthers, of course, because they simply argued that the COLB was a fake, that it was legally insufficient to prove anything, or that it didn’t contain supposedly crucial information like what hospital the President was born in even though that fact had been independently established long before yesterday. None of this was true, of course, but it didn’t matter. Similarly, the arguments now are that there is something “fishy” about the long-form that was released yesterday, with the suggestion being that it’s a complete fake despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Even when those arguments fail, though, there’s still the fall back position. Basically, the birthers have argued that the phrase “natural born citizen” in the Constitution has a specific meaning that requires that both of a person’s parents be citizens of the United States at the time of their birth. It doesn’t actually say that in the Constitution, of course, and there’s no actual legal authority in the United States that they can rely on to support their claim.  Instead, they rely on a definition of “natural born citizen” that was given by a Swiss philosopher named Emmerich de Vatel. The problem is that the edition of the work in which de Vatel developed this definition of the phrase wasn’t translated into English and published outside of Switzerland until ten years after the Constitution was drafted. Therefore, it’s impossible for de Vattel’s work to have been any influence at all upon the Founders when the Article II was drafted. More significantly, from the beginning there have only been two kinds of American citizens; people who are citizens from birth and people who become naturalized citizens under the law. Clearly, “natural born citizen” as it’s used in the Constitution means someone who was a citizen at the time of their birth, like Barack Obama.

Moreover, it’s worth noting that, under this de Vatel definition, and not counting Obama, the United States has had four Presidents since 1820 who had at least one parent who was not an American citizen at the time of their birth — Andrew Jackson, James Buchanan, Chester Alan Arthur, and Herbert Hoover. At no time did anyone make the argument that any of these men were not “natural born citizens,” so there’s no reason to think that the Founders ever intended to apply this standard to determine eligibility for the Presidency.

Of course, none of that matters. The birthers will continue to make their arguments and the media will air them, most likely without giving the explanation I just did of what “natural born citizen” means. This isn’t over by a long shot, folks.

 

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About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway. Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. An Interested Party says:

    If the president hadn’t released it, the loons would be on parade…now that he has released it, the loons are still on parade…looks like a win-win for him…

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  2. Janis Gore says:

    You’re going a little far here. There’s no reason to assume that none of the founders read an earlier edition of Vattel in French. Granted, they couldn’t order from Amazon, but that doesn’t mean it was completely unavailable.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  3. jwest says:

    Unfortunately, it would have been better for Obama if something on the long form had been slightly embarrassing. At least that would have explained why he fought and delayed the release of it for so long. As it stands now, some will still look for the reason he simply didn’t spend the 10 seconds it took to sign the request back when the issue first surfaced.

    At least the majority can move along to the academic records.

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  4. PJ says:

    Birthers moving on to his academic records demanding to see what will prove their suspicions, that he’s an affirmative action student. That’s so full of win. They really do want to prove beyond any doubt that this was about one thing and one thing only.

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  5. jwest says:

    Pj makes a good point. I can’t imagine how republicans win in 2012 if they lose the support of the black community.

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  6. ponce says:

    Wingnuts always double down on the crazy. Always.

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  7. wr says:

    “At least the majority can move along to the academic records.”

    Little problem, little westie. You see, as the idiot birthers kept screaming, the place of Obama’s birth might have some influence over the legality of his election.

    His grades don’t.

    So unless you can point to the clause in the constitution, why don’t you and the rest of your racist buddies go burn your crosses on a different lawn?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  8. jwest says:

    Wr,

    The economy is in tatters, unemployment is through the roof, gas prices are astronomical, we’re involved in 3 unwinnable wars, Bradley Manning is being tortured regularly, Gitmo is still open, the Chinese are eating our lunch and every country in the world hates us more than ever. The only thing that could help Obama in the 2012 elections is to show the extent of his brilliance.

    Hence, the records.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  9. mantis says:

    I look forward to Jay Tea joining us to again explain how Obama devilishly toyed with the birthers, not requesting special permission from the State of Hawaii for his long-form, because he found it politically useful for their insanity to continue. That’s going to be a bit of a tough sell considering the fact that the birthers, as we predicted all along, will continue their madness unabated.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  10. mantis says:

    I think we can all assume that jwest is correct, and the Republicans will treat Obama’s college transcripts as the most important issue facing the nation right now.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  11. wr says:

    jwest — so now you’ve admitted there’s no reason to care about Obama’s educational records. You might as well admit that you’re a troll. Maybe you’re a racist, maybe you just say racist things to get the kind of attention that clearly is unavailable to you in person. Either way, you’re a waste of oxygen.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  12. ponce says:

    “gas prices are astronomical”

    I know.

    Gas prices are up 25% since the Republicans took over the House.

    How long until we can put Nancy Pelosi back in charge?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  13. TG Chicago says:

    @jwest

    I can’t imagine how republicans win in 2012 if they lose the support of the black community.

    You’re being facetious, but seriously: how will Republicans win anything in 2032 when then keep antagonizing the entire nonwhite population?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  14. mantis says:

    You’re being facetious, but seriously: how will Republicans win anything in 2032 when then keep antagonizing the entire nonwhite population?

    They’ll try to make sure nobody but white people can vote.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  15. anjin-san says:

    Gas prices are astronomical & Exxon made a tidy 10 billion dollar profit in Q1. Clearly, its all Obama’s fault.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  16. G.A.Phillips says:

    Gas prices are up 25% since the Republicans took over the House.

    How long until we can put Nancy Pelosi back in charge?

    hahaha…..awesome…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  17. G.A.Phillips says:

    They’ll try to make sure nobody but white people can vote.

    I rest my case….

    James, can we reset this blog and start over?lol…..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  18. An Interested Party says:

    I can’t imagine how republicans win in 2012 if they lose the support of the black community.

    Among other minorities…or do you really think Hispanics don’t find this racist innuendo just as disgusting?

    Actually, all this trolling for all these records only shows how desperate the president’s political enemies are…I mean, if jwest’s spouting about how so much of the economy and our international relations are just so horrible, wouldn’t that alone be enough to defeat the president? Apparently not, considering the potential opposition he might face…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  19. Southern Hoosier says:

    Release just raise more questions.

    What is it about twin girls born day after Obama?

    As WND reported, the long-form birth certificates issued by Kapi’olani to the Nordyke twins have certificate numbers lower than the number given Obama, even though the president purportedly was born at the same hospital a day earlier than the Nordykes.
    Note, Susan Nordyke, the first twin, was born at 2:12 p.m. Hawaii time Aug. 5, 1961, and was given certificate No. 151 – 61 – 10637, which was filed with the Hawaii registrar Aug. 11, 1961.

    Gretchen Nordyke, the second twin, was born at 2:17 p.m. Hawaii time Aug. 5, 1961, and was given certificate No. 151 – 61 – 10638, which was also filed with the Hawaii registrar Aug. 11, 1961.

    Yet, according to the Certification of Live Birth displayed by FactCheck.org during the 2008 presidential campaign – and now according to the long-form birth certificate the White House released today – Barack Obama was given a higher certificate number than the Nordykes.

    Note, Obama was given certificate No. 151 – 1961 – 10641, even though he was born Aug. 4, 1961, the day before the Nordyke twins, and his birth was registered with the Hawaii Department of Health registrar three days earlier, Aug. 8, 1961.

    Read more: What is it about twin girls born day after Obama? http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=292457#ixzz1KrCBM5bb

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  20. jwest says:

    Interested Party,

    “..wouldn’t that alone be enough to defeat the president?”

    Absolutely not.

    If we republican are going to stand a chance of winning the White House, we’re going to need someone of superior intelligence as a candidate.

    Perhaps a former Corpse man who is fluent in Austrian. Someone who can capture the imagination of people in all 57 states.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  21. Southern Hoosier says:

    jwest says: Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 15:08

    Pj makes a good point. I can’t imagine how republicans win in 2012 if they lose the support of the black community.

    90% of the Blacks vote lockstep for the Democrats, even if they ran the Grand Wizard as a candidate.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  22. sam says:

    @Soluthern Hoosier

    “Read more: What is it about twin girls born day after Obama?”

    The stupidity advances unimpeded.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  23. An Interested Party says:

    Perhaps a former Corpse man who is fluent in Austrian. Someone who can capture the imagination of people in all 57 states.

    Awww…such a pity that the person who misspoke these things will eventually have “two term President of the United States” on his resume…

    90% of the Blacks vote lockstep for the Democrats, even if they ran the Grand Wizard as a candidate.

    Tell me, why do you think such is the case? Hmm?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  24. wr says:

    SH — The difference between the parties is that the Ds won’t run the Grand Wizard as their candidate.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  25. MarkedMan says:

    How could his birth certificate possibly have a lower number? Oh, I don’t know, maybe more than one nurse kept forms in her desk, each grabbing a dozen or so blanks from the stack of originals? Maybe there was only one stack but they put them in the drawer backside up so they took them out in reverse order? Or maybe they were in a vertical file drawer and one nurse tended to pull them from the front and another nurse pulled from the back? But, you know, it could also be like you implied and maybe Obama’s Kenyan Super-Ninja father snuck back into the country a few days before the twins were born, got dressed in his Super-Ninja outfit, came in through the skylight into the nurses station, stole a blank birth certificate, filled it out with false information, then repeated the whole exercise later to put the birth certificate back in the completed stack. I mean, if Obama wasn’t hiding something why wouldn’t he simply disprove his father was a Super-Ninja. I’m just saying…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  26. Trumwill says:

    It would be totally awesome if our president was the son of a Superninja.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  27. Southern Hoosier says:

    wr says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 18:24

    SH — The difference between the parties is that the Ds won’t run the Grand Wizard as their candidate.

    They did elect an Exalted Cyclops to the senate seat in West Virgina. But if they ever did run a Grand Wizard, they would still get 90% of the Black vote.

    They also ran the person that ordered the wire tapping of Dr. King and he got Black support.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  28. Michael Reynolds says:

    Wheres our friend Drew to explain how Jwest and Southern Hoosier aren’t really racists? He seems to have crawled back under his rock.

    I really just want these creeps to grow some balls. Come on Jwest and SH don’t either of you have the courage to come clean? Do you really want us to know that you’re not just racists but cowards too?

    Man up for once in your scared little lives. Say it loud and proud.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  29. wr says:

    Here’s the difference between Byrd and you, Southern Hoosier. Byrd joined the Klan in the ’40s, when it was an accepted part of white southern culture and later recanted and apologized. Whereas you continue on with your racist ways in a time when there is no such excuse, and you are proud of your bigotry.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  30. Southern Hoosier says:

    MarkedMan says: Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 18:32

    How could his birth certificate possibly have a lower number? Oh, I don’t know, maybe more than one nurse kept forms in her desk, each grabbing a dozen or so blanks from the stack of originals? Maybe there was only one stack but they put them in the drawer backside up so they took them out in reverse order

    Nice try.

    In 1961, the birth certificate numbers were not assigned by the hospitals.

    Instead, the numbers were stamped to the birth record by the Hawaii Department of Health at the main office in Honolulu.

    This is the only place birth certificate numbers were assigned.

    The birth certificate number was stamped on the form by a rubber stamp that automatically increased by one each time a birth certificate was stamped.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=292457

    Just because the numbers on Comrade Obama’s birth certificate are out of sequence, doesn’t mean its a fake, right?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  31. An Interested Party says:

    But if they ever did run a Grand Wizard, they would still get 90% of the Black vote.

    Once again, why do you think that is?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  32. An Interested Party says:

    By the way, citing WND as a source? I guess the Onion was unavailable…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  33. Southern Hoosier says:

    An Interested Party says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 19:30

    But if they ever did run a Grand Wizard, they would still get 90% of the Black vote.

    Once again, why do you think that is?

    Who blocked the door way at Ole Miss? A Democrat. Who controlled the dogs, fire hoses and clubs in Alabama? Democrats. Who ordered the wire tapping of Dr, King? A Democrat. Who tried to block the Voting Rights Act of 1965 in Congress? Democrats. Who raised the Confederate flag over the capital of South Carolina? A Democrat. Who formed the Dixiecrat? Democrats. Who elected the Exalted Cyclops? Democrats. Who wanted to castrate Comrade Obama? A Democrat. Who enacted Jim Crow laws? Democrats.

    If I were half the racist some of you think I am, I would be a Democrat. Despite all this Blacks still vote Democrat, then it really doesn’t matter what type of racist candidate the Democrats run,

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  34. sam says:

    @Southern Moron

    In 1961, the birth certificate numbers were not assigned by the hospitals.

    Instead, the numbers were stamped to the birth record by the Hawaii Department of Health at the main office in Honolulu.

    Gee. maybe they had a whole bunch and the certificates were alphabetically ordered and stamped in that sequence. Hmm, say, doesn’t ‘Nordyke’ come before ‘Obama’ alphabetically? Golly, I think it does.

    Just because the numbers on Comrade Obama’s birth certificate are out of sequence, doesn’t mean its a fake, right?

    Right, idiot.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  35. Southern Hoosier says:

    I forgot to ask, who called Collen Powell and Condoleezza Rice, Uncle Tom and Aunt Jemima? Who referred to them as “house nig***rs?” I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t Republicans.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  36. Southern Hoosier says:

    sam says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 19:58

    @Southern Moron

    In 1961, the birth certificate numbers were not assigned by the hospitals.

    Instead, the numbers were stamped to the birth record by the Hawaii Department of Health at the main office in Honolulu.

    Gee. maybe they had a whole bunch and the certificates were alphabetically ordered and stamped in that sequence. Hmm, say, doesn’t ‘Nordyke’ come before ‘Obama’ alphabetically? Golly, I think it does.

    Just because the numbers on Comrade Obama’s birth certificate are out of sequence, doesn’t mean its a fake, right?

    Right, idiot.

    LOL I agree with you non-birthers and you still call me names.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  37. An Interested Party says:

    Despite all this Blacks still vote Democrat, then it really doesn’t matter what type of racist candidate the Democrats run,

    Yet again, why do you think such is the case?

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  38. michael reynolds says:

    Southern Hoosier:

    You’re all the racist we think you are. And twice the coward.

    Be a man. Tell the truth about your feelings.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  39. legion says:

    OK, dim-bulb-birthers, riddle me this:
    If this certificate is actually a forgery, due to the out-of sequence #s, that means there’s another HI certificate #10641 out there, right?

    Go find it.

    Until then, shut your racist pie holes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  40. sam says:

    @Southern ____________

    “I agree with you non-birthers”

    Heh.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  41. wr says:

    SH — Read a book someday. No one here has the time or patience to explain to you what happened to all those Democrats who fought against the Civil Rights Act. Either you’re completely ignorant, or you simply choose to ignore reality to justify your own racism.

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  42. anjin-san says:

    Be a man.

    ummm. You are talking about Hoosier here. I don’t see it happening.

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  43. Neil Hudelson says:

    I really just want these creeps to grow some balls. Come on Jwest and SH don’t either of you have the courage to come clean? Do you really want us to know that you’re not just racists but cowards too?

    Michael,

    Southern Hoosier used to comment at Stormfront. In case you arent’ familiar with that piece of sh*t site, it’s tagline is “White Nationalist News and Discussion for Racial Realists.”

    So, to give Southern Hoosier credit, he has come out and admitted he’s a racist.

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  44. Neil Hudelson says:

    Who was that racist that used to comment here back in ’08 or so? Michael used to always call him out on his crap.

    At least he was an eloquent racist.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  45. Southern Hoosier says:

    An Interested Party says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 20:14

    Despite all this Blacks still vote Democrat, then it really doesn’t matter what type of racist candidate the Democrats run,

    Yet again, why do you think such is the case?

    I don’t know. I’ve ask myself that question many times. We can’t even discuss it on here. The center of every liberal argument comes down to one word, racist, If I disagree with Obamacare, I’m a racist. If I question what gives Obama the right to take over companies, I’m a racist. If I ask where in the Constitution is that, I’m a racist. If I I question Obama’s birth, I’m a racist.

    I don’t care how much better educated people on here are, most of their arguments come down to name calling and little else. I am not use to having discussion with rude and ill mattered people. To be honest, I don’t take to many of them seriously and their opinion of me doesn’t carry much weight.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  46. Neil Hudelson says:

    If I disagree with Obamacare, I’m a racist. If I question what gives Obama the right to take over companies, I’m a racist. If I ask where in the Constitution is that, I’m a racist. If I I question Obama’s birth, I’m a racist.

    FTFY

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  47. george says:

    This birther stuff is like a great Monty Python skit that never ends. It and the truther movement are the best things to happen in politics in a long time – what better evidence could anyone need to show just how blindly partisan people are. Watching people tie themselves in knots to prove their insane theories is about the most entertaining thing happening in politics.

    I kind of hope the birthers ignore the academic issue (irrelevant, who’s ever looked at the school marks of any President), and move straight on to the ultimate question – is there any proof that Obama isn’t an android, or maybe a Martian? We need DNA evidence, and we need it now.

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  48. Janis Gore says:

    I’ve defended people on this board against the charge of “racism.” Indeed, I don’t think jwest is a racist. I think he’s an “agitator,” a designation he should like.

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  49. Southern Hoosier says:

    Neil Hudelson says: Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 20:59
    Southern Hoosier used to comment at Stormfront.

    A good example of liberal half truths.

    Neil conveniently drops the other half of what I said. “I got kicked off for not being White enough.” I wasn’t a very good racist.

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  50. rodney dill says:

    Of Course The Birthers Aren’t Satisfied

    ’cause the ones that are satisfied aren’t really Birthers any more.

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  51. Neil Hudelson says:

    Neil conveniently drops the other half of what I said. “I got kicked off for not being White enough.” I wasn’t a very good racist.

    Your defense is you weren’t as racist as the worst racists there are? That’s like saying “Yeah I murdered people, but I didn’t eat them, so I’m not that big of a monster.”

    Shades of grey don’t really count here when you have hate in your heart based on someone’s skin color.

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  52. Southern Hoosier says:

    Neil Hudelson says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 21:05

    If I I question Obama’s birth, I’m a racist.

    Why does that make a person a racist? When people questioned John McCain’s place of birth, did that make them racist as well? Why is Obama’s birth certificate such a sacred cow?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  53. Southern Hoosier says:

    Neil Hudelson says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 21:19

    Neil conveniently drops the other half of what I said. “I got kicked off for not being White enough.” I wasn’t a very good racist.

    Your defense is you weren’t as racist as the worst racists there are? That’s like saying “Yeah I murdered people, but I didn’t eat them, so I’m not that big of a monster.”

    Still doesn’t change the fact that your half truths are little more than lies.

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  54. Southern Hoosier says:

    @Neil you say I am a racist for posting on Stormfront. OK I am now posting on outsidethebeltway, what does that make me?

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  55. matt says:

    Southern whatever : For being a “student of history” you sure seem to forget the important parts. The glaringly obvious thing is the people you’re talking about left the Democratic party and joined Republicans during the civil rights era. The Republicans then initiated the “southern strategy” where they catered to white southerners who were racists at the time. I am sure you are aware of this already and you are purposely omitting details to suit your purpose. I will give you that up till the civil rights era the situation was reversed but whites in general were still pretty racist even as a Republican..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  56. michael reynolds says:

    Neil:

    Yeah, I know what Stormfront is. So, our boy SH isn’t doing a very good job of hiding his tracks.

    SH:

    Would you, for God’s sake, just have the courage to tell the truth? Reach down the front of your pants, see if you can find your balls, and admit what you really believe.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  57. mantis says:

    I forgot to ask, who called Collen Powell and Condoleezza Rice, Uncle Tom and Aunt Jemima? Who referred to them as “house nig***rs?” I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t Republicans.

    No, they refer to Powell and Rice as just niggers. In closed company, of course.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  58. mantis says:

    I forgot to ask, who called Collen Powell and Condoleezza Rice, Uncle Tom and Aunt Jemima? Who referred to them as “house nig***rs?” I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t Republicans.

    No, they refer to Powell and Rice as just n!ggers. In closed company, of course.

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  59. Neil Hudelson says:

    Still doesn’t change the fact that your half truths are little more than lies.

    My statement was that you used to comment at Stormfront. That’s a full truth. I really don’t care why you don’t anymore, unless that reason is “I realized I was racist, that racism was wrong, and I denounced Stormfront.” If that’s the case, then I say to you “Congratulations. You’ve joined the rest of the human race.”

    The fact that your defense is “Yeah, but I’m not as racist as skin heads” doesn’t make my comment a “half truth” or a lie. It makes you racist, full stop.

    But if pointing out that you aren’t as racist as other racists makes you think you’ve scored one on me, great. Still makes you a racist SOB. I’m embarrassed to live on the same continent as you, let alone the same state.

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  60. michael reynolds says:

    Neil:

    Don’t take it to heart. My best friend is an Indiana boy.

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  61. Joel says:

    For a long time I dismissed the idea that many of Obama’s critics beyond a tiny fringe were racist beyond as Democrat sour grapes. However, the birthers and certain commentors have gradually forced me to accept that there are in fact a substantial amount of racists who have a problem with a black president. Nothing else explains the persistence of the birther movement, or the “Obama is a Muslim” crowd. I’m a semi-conservative (though not a Republican) and didn’t want to believe this. But it’s the ugly truth.

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  62. Southern Hoosier says:

    matt says: Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 21:41

    Southern whatever : For being a “student of history” you sure seem to forget the important parts. The glaringly obvious thing is the people you’re talking about left the Democratic party and joined Republicans during the civil rights era.

    The only person that comes to mind that switched parties was Strom Thurmond. Gov Wallace, Carter, Fulbright, Helms, Byrd, Fritz” Hollings , Barnett, Maddox, Al Gore Sr all stayed with the Democrat party. Robert Kennedy who wire tapped King stayed Democrat.

    There was more Nixon’s appeal than just white racism, since he carried 49 states in 1972, He appealed more to the people’s economic interest. Voters identified the Democrats with Johnson and his Great Society as turning the United States into a welfare state.

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  63. Janis Gore says:

    The consequences of “The Great Society” weren’t known at the time. What tripped the trigger was school integration and busing. This I know. I was there.

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  64. Southern Hoosier says:

    mantis says: Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 21:57

    I forgot to ask, who called Collen Powell and Condoleezza Rice, Uncle Tom and Aunt Jemima? Who referred to them as “house nig***rs?” I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t Republicans.

    No, they refer to Powell and Rice as just n!ggers. In closed company, of course.

    And you know that for a fact, because you were part of that “closed company?”

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  65. Southern Hoosier says:

    Janis Gore says: Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 22:29

    The consequences of “The Great Society” weren’t known at the time. What tripped the trigger was school integration and busing. This I know. I was there.

    Eisenhower started school integration by sending troops to Little Rock.

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  66. Janis Gore says:

    But it wasn’t broad-based. Dallas had a tiff with the courts when I was in elementary school.

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  67. Southern Hoosier says:

    Neil Hudelson says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 21:59

    Still doesn’t change the fact that your half truths are little more than lies.

    My statement was that you used to comment at Stormfront.

    I post on NPR and haven’t been kicked off yet. Does that make me a good liberal? LOL

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  68. Janis Gore says:

    That was between second and third grade, about 1964. Busing was instituted in about my second year of junior high, say 1969.

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  69. An Interested Party says:

    I will pose the question to anyone who wants to answer it…if the Democratic Party is so full of racists and does things that are so detrimental to black people, why does it continuously receive over 90% of the black vote?

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  70. An Interested Party says:

    Hmm…Confederate apologist and a commenter at Stormfront…such a combination says a lot about a person…

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  71. Southern Hoosier says:

    Janis Gore says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 22:40

    That was between second and third grade, about 1964. Busing was instituted in about my second year of junior high, say 1969.

    Little Rock took place in 1957. It set the precedence for the Federal government to enforce school integration and was also a blow to states right. My schools were always interrogated.

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  72. Southern Hoosier says:

    An Interested Party says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 22:46

    Hmm…Confederate apologist and a commenter at Stormfront…such a combination says a lot about a person…

    You left out the part about posting on NPR.

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  73. Southern Hoosier says:

    Neil, I’m still waiting for an answer.

    Southern Hoosier says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 21:24

    Neil Hudelson says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 21:05

    If I I question Obama’s birth, I’m a racist.

    Why does that make a person a racist? When people questioned John McCain’s place of birth, did that make them racist as well? Why is Obama’s birth certificate such a sacred cow?

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  74. Janis Gore says:

    To tell the truth, I didn’t much mind. I’d grown up in neighborhood that suffered considerable white flight, had known black school-mates and some good black teachers for years. It would have been a lot damned easier if people hadn’t squawked so.

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  75. Southern Hoosier says:

    Janis Gore says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 22:51

    To tell the truth, I didn’t much mind. I’d grown up in neighborhood that suffered considerable white flight, had known black school-mates and some good black teachers for years. It would have been a lot damned easier if people hadn’t squawked so.

    I know. When you look at the films of white race riots, you wonder what people were thinking in those days.

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  76. wr says:

    “OK I am now posting on outsidethebeltway, what does that make me?”

    Judging only by what you post, a bore.

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  77. Southern Hoosier says:

    wr says:
    Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 22:54

    “OK I am now posting on outsidethebeltway, what does that make me?”

    Judging only by what you post, a bore.

    Good, so ignore me,

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  78. Southern Hoosier says:

    @wr Before you ignore me, could you answer my question for me? Neil seems to be lost for words, other than to say it is racist.

    What is racist about questioning Obama’s birth record?

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  79. Janis Gore says:

    Notifying hereby the site administrators that there is a link to a story describing the murder of shoeshop owner Frank Morris by white vigilantes in the Town of Ferriday, LA in 1964 for the sin of charging the parish sheriff for repairing his boots.

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  80. Janis Gore says:

    I call that a white race riot.

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  81. Janis Gore says:

    Set his shop on fire, tried to burn him alive.

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  82. Janis Gore says:

    Mr. Morris survived for three-four days.

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  83. Southern Hoosier says:

    Found it

    Louisiana Newspaper Accuses Klansman of Brutal 1964 Murder

    http://www.zimbio.com/Cynthia+Lynch/articles/YfCCYUuUx1M/Louisiana+Newspaper+Accuses+Klansman+Brutal

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  84. Southern Hoosier says:

    Janis Gore says: Thursday, April 28, 2011 at 23:10

    I call that a white race riot.

    I don’t. What I call a white race riot happen when James Meredith tried to enter Old Miss and half the town turned out to try and stop him.

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  85. Janis Gore says:

    Not a forward crowd at all, those Mississippians.

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  86. mantis says:

    And you know that for a fact, because you were part of that “closed company?”

    A bit dim, aren’t you?

    What I call a white race riot happen when James Meredith tried to enter Old Miss and half the town turned out to try and stop him.

    I figured you just call that the good ol’ days.

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  87. Janis Gore says:

    Rod Dreher said back in the day that he lived in Louisiana — he’s some younger than I am — that parents taught their children not to obey black teachers. We’re talking English teachers and basic arithmetic.

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  88. Wiley Stoner says:

    Anyone here ever hear of photoshop? Reynold I know what you are. It ain’t nothing nice. Your arguement sucks so you resort to name calling. I do too, however I do make an arguement. If you call someone a racist because they oppose the POLICY of this President, you are a liar and a coward. That pretty much describes the left.

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  89. Janis Gore says:

    But there hasn’t been argument on the fora. There have been these insinuations that he’s not an American, he’s a Muslim, he’s a born communist and terrorist.

    He’s a plain half-assed Democrat. I read some comments on Salon today. Someone was talking about “the birther conspiracy”. He said that the idea implies that the insidious left spent spent fifty years concocting a conspiracy to elect a president that you wouldn’t like.

    A wag said “More insidious, we did it to elect a president WE don’t like.”

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  90. jukeboxgrad says:

    Southern Hoosier:

    What is racist about questioning Obama’s birth record? … Why does that [question Obama’s birth] make a person a racist?

    Here is an important fact that you seem to not know, or are pretending to not know. Never before, at any time in history, has there been a group of people accusing the president of lying about where he was born. Never. Not once. That didn’t even happen with Chester Arthur. (He was accused of lying about his place of birth, but it was just one nut making the accusation, and I believe the nut went away once Arthur was elected. And in any event, Arthur never released any birth records of any kind, ever.)

    Here’s something else that has never happened before: a president (or even major candidate) releasing his birth certificate. (Reagan released his, but it was after he left office. GWB’s was supposedly once obtained and shown by a political rival, but no one knows if that thing was authentic, and no one knows where it is today. And it was certainly not released by GWB. Ike’s became available at one point, but it was obtained and produced by a supporter, not him. McCain’s BC posted on the internet is a known forgery, not something released by him.)

    When people questioned John McCain’s place of birth, did that make them racist as well?

    No one ever “questioned John McCain’s place of birth.” No one ever said that he was born somewhere other than he said he was born. No one ever accused him of lying about or covering up his true place of birth.

    A question was raised about the legal implications of his Canal Zone birth. This is fundamentally different than calling him a liar.

    The analogy would be this. Imagine that Obama had really been born in Kenya, and this had been known and acknowledged all along. Imagine he was claiming “natural born citizen” status based on the fact that his mother was American. Imagine that legal questions were raised about this.

    Do you see how that is fundamentally different than calling him a liar?

    Why is Obama’s birth certificate such a sacred cow?

    One more time: no president prior to Obama has released a birth certificate. The fact that he was the first is a permanent disgrace to our country. It’s nice that we have reached the point of having a black president. Hopefully someday we will have a black president who is not forced to release his birth certificate.

    Did you at any time in your life ever take any interest in the birth certificate of any candidate or president not named Obama? Is there any sign whatosever that there is even a single birther who ever took any interest in the birth certificate of any candidate or president not named Obama?

    And speaking of things that people were never interested in before, here’s one of the major lies now being told on the internet: that Bush and Gore released their transcripts. No, they didn’t. That information was leaked, not released by Bush and Gore. More information about the non-release of the Bush and Gore transcripts can be found via here:

    http://volokh.com/2010/11/02/election-night-open-thread/#comment-1037207

    No president or major candidate has ever released their grades. Zero. None. (Kerry released his transcript, but only after he was no longer a candidate.) So once again, Obama is being pressured to do something no other president was pressured to do, or actually did.

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  91. rodney dill says:

    @jukeboxgrad, You and some of the others are missing the one obvious reason Obama’s birth certificate is questioned, other than race. Its the same reason that George W. Bush’s National Guard records were brought into question. The same reason John Kerry’s, War record, form 180, and school records were brought into question. The same reason President Clinton’s tryst and subsequent perjury about it were brought into question. The same reason Hillary Clinton’s Rose Law firm records were brought into question. It was determined by someone that there was some weakness or discrepancy to attack for political gain. Like it or not, It seems anything is fair game anymore for material to mount an attack for political purposes. If any other candidate today, had some perceived discrepancy around their place of birth I am convinced it would be brought into question, for purposes of political gain alone.

    In Obama’s case his father being from Kenya, and family ties there, along with Hawaii’s policy on not releasing the long form gave someone a reason to perceive a weakness that could be politically exploited. Are racists using this to play on fears of racism? Obviously. From both sides. Still there exists purely political reasons that someone could use to justify questioning the whole birth certificate issue.

    I didn’t believe the birther issue was worth pursuing before I knew the long form existed. I just don’t back the “Questioning Obama’s birth certificate equates to racism” mantra that is forming, though I recognize that there are pure political reasons for the left to continue to push it.

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  92. jwest says:

    Now that Valerie Jarrett has declared that Obama will continue to hide his academic record, the mainstream press will have a hard time defending against the charge that Sarah Palin scored higher on the LSAT than he did, but had to work her way through state colleges instead of being courted by Ivy League schools.

    How will they justify someone coming from a privileged banking executive’s family with a lower score gaining access to prestigious institutions when the daughter of a teacher with a higher score can only attend a school for commoners?

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  93. [...] we all knew would be the case (and as we here at OTB have noted several times over the last several days), but the release of the long form birth certificate by [...]

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  94. mantis says:

    Still there exists purely political reasons that someone could use to justify questioning the whole birth certificate issue.

    How about continuing to push it, even now? What are the reasons for that, great defender of the racist birthers?

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  95. mantis says:

    jwest is having fun imagination time. Don’t disturb him.

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  96. jukeboxgrad says:

    rodney:

    If any other candidate today, had some perceived discrepancy around their place of birth … In Obama’s case his father being from Kenya, and family ties there, along with Hawaii’s policy on not releasing the long form gave someone a reason to perceive a weakness that could be politically exploited.

    Sorry, I don’t buy it.

    By all accounts, Obama’s mother never stepped foot outside the US until 1967. Not even once. She was born in Kansas. The family then lived in these places: CA, OK, TX, KS, WA. The family then moved to HI in 1960. She was married on 2/2/61. Obama was born 8/4/61. (Do you know who else was pregnant on her wedding day? Sarah Palin.)

    She moved to Indonesia in 1967, when Obama was six.

    There is no legitimate basis for any “perceived discrepancy.” It would be a little different if there was a record of Dunham traveling frequently outside the US prior to 1961. But there is no such record. There is no record of any travel by her outside the US prior to 1967. None whatsoever. So the fact that the father was an African is not any kind of legitimate basis to speculate that the baby was born outside the US. Not even close.

    The distance from HI to Kenya is 10,762 miles. And this was not a rich family (despite what we hear from serial dissemblers like jwest), especially at the time.

    Of course there are plenty of birthers who claimed (and still claim) that there’s a legal issue because of the father’s non-citizenship. I’m talking about the group (i.e., most birthers) that accuses Obama of lying about his birthplace.

    And I don’t know what you mean by “family ties there.” There were no “family ties there” prior to Obama’s birth.

    And even if one accepts the African father as a reason to demand a BC, the COLB should have been enough to satisfy that demand, especially after multiple HI-R officials spoke up to authenticate it.

    And if there really is such a deep concern about making sure the constitutional requirement is satisfied (and of course that’s what we’re now being told), then we should have heard about this before, at least a little. Picture a statement like this: ‘yes, I know that GWB was born in New Haven, and no one is calling him a liar, but this is the presidency we’re talking about, so it should go without saying that every candidate, including him, should provide a BC.’

    Can anyone show even a single example of anyone saying anything like that, pre-Obama? Anyone? Anywhere? Ever? Just one? Even a little itty-bitty one? On a blog? In a newspaper? Maybe a letter to the editor? Something scribbled on a bathroom wall somewhere?

    Notice the absence of any such evidence, compared with the hysteria over Obama’s BC, even after he showed a COLB that was authenticated by multiple R officials. I see a big discrepancy there. If racism isn’t the reason for that discrepancy, I’d like to hear an alternate explanation.

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  97. rodney dill says:

    @jukeboxgrad, It’s not about whether you perceive a discrepancy, its whether someone else could.
    My statement still apply

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  98. jukeboxgrad says:

    It’s not about whether you perceive a discrepancy, its whether someone else could.

    I realize that. You expressed yourself clearly, and I understand what you said. What I’m saying is that only racists and/or people interested in pandering to racists could “perceive a discrepancy,” given the facts of this situation, and especially given the absence of any such concern being expressed before, even mildly.

    If Dunham had been impregnated by a white man from Canada, none of this ever would have come up.

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  99. rodney dill says:

    How about continuing to push it, even now? What are the reasons for that, great defender of the racist birthers?

    I’m not defending racist birthers, so get your facts straight and stop lying. I’m not even defending birthers that were just politically motivated. That’s just your mantra to add racism tags where there isn’t specific evidence it exists. I don’t know why any individual is still pursuing this or would want to. I don’t have to know any specific reason, to know that there is more than one type of reason.

    I’m only pointing out that there are or were non-racist reasons to attack Obama’s birth certificate.
    I’m not claiming that none were racist reasons. Some may have been. You really make yourself look dim by avoiding seeing the elephant in the room. Political motivation.

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  100. Janis Gore says:

    I’d still like to know where the link to Stanley Nelson’s articles in the Concordia Sentinel are. The gentleman is a newshound in the best sense.

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  101. mantis says:

    You really make yourself look dim by avoiding seeing the elephant in the room. Political motivation.

    The only political motivation is among Republican candidates and elected officials who need to pander to their racist base.

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  102. jukeboxgrad says:

    rodney:

    there are or were non-racist reasons to attack Obama’s birth certificate

    I’m surprised you said “are or were” instead of just “were.” You claim that as of now, there are “non-racist reasons to attack Obama’s birth certificate?”

    I would go this far: for any R or D who wanted to see his BC prior to the time that he issued his COLB, I would give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren’t racist.

    I would also extend the benefit of that doubt to any person who could show that they ever expressed such a concern pre-Obama. But I always hear nothing but the sound of crickets when I ask for such evidence.

    mantis:

    The only political motivation is among Republican candidates and elected officials who need to pander to their racist base.

    Indeed. Especially because there is a long history of racists voting R.

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  103. Neil Hudelson says:

    SH,

    After your “I’m less racist than skinheads” defense, I left my computer. It’s date night with the girlfriend, and talking to her over conversing with racist scum struck me as a much better use of my time.

    Sorry I wasn’t there to immediately respond to your statements.

    That said, jukebox has done a pretty good job.

    This is a pretty good summation too.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX5ueEKsSWc&feature=player_embedded

    The best reason I have for knowing that birthers are racist, is that the most die hard birther I’ve met is a defender of the confederacy and used to post at Stormfront.

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  104. Joel says:

    I don’t think every single birther is a racist. Some people are probably just ignorant, hear that there’s a controversy over his birth certificate, and hop on board the train without knowing the facts. However, it seems obvious at this point that it is largely a racially driven movement.

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  105. jukeboxgrad says:

    Well said.

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  106. rodney dill says:

    I’m surprised you said “are or were” instead of just “were.” You claim that as of now, there are “non-racist reasons to attack Obama’s birth certificate?

    Because I don’t know everyone who is seriously going after this, or what their reasons are. If Orly Taviz is the now the only main force behind this and she’s doing this for racist reasons, then “were” would be correct.

    Political motivation is alway a reason to itself. Since Obama is the Democrat candidate, he is not the Republican candidate, he is not the conservative candidate, he is not the tea party candidate, he is not the libertarian candidate. If you’re in the political arena and someone is not your candidate you have reason to pursue anything that can stick to derail their campaign. Like Palin and the bridge to nowhere, McCain being a self-proclaimed maverick, Obama and his 57 states…

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  107. jukeboxgrad says:

    jwest:

    Now that Valerie Jarrett has declared that Obama will continue to hide his academic record

    More unadulterated bullshit from a shameless bullshitter. If Obama chooses “to hide his academic record” he’ll be doing what every other candidate and president has done. I already explained this, but you react to all inconvenient facts by assuming this position.

    And aside from that, we already know enough about “his academic record” to reach this conclusion:

    In traditional academic terms, Obama did better in school than any president in the last 40 years.

    The source for that and more like that can be found here and here.

    the mainstream press will have a hard time defending against the charge that Sarah Palin scored higher on the LSAT than he did

    “Palin scored higher on the LSAT” than precisely this many people: zero. Do you know how I know? Because she never took it. You have an extraordinary ability to reveal gross ignorance in almost every sentence.

    but had to work her way through state colleges

    There is no evidence whatsoever that Palin ever worked in her college years, aside from being in a couple of beauty pageants. Yup, that’s hard “work.” If you ever find evidence of other work, please share it with us. I’ll be waiting patiently.

    And she went to so many colleges that it’s hard to keep track, but she didn’t just go to “state colleges.” She was a freshman at Hawaii Pacific University, a private school.

    And I see a few small problems with your poverty narrative. I don’t quite understand how attending five colleges in six years would be considered an economical way to finish college. Moving is expensive, especially when it involves destinations like Hawaii (a current round-trip ticket between ANC and HNL starts at about $600). I somehow think that most poverty-stricken high school grads in Alaska are not likely to make Hawaii their next stop. So I wonder why that’s what she did, if she was worried about struggling to pay for tuition.

    How will they justify someone coming from a privileged banking executive’s family

    Your poverty narrative about Palin is bullshit, and your “privileged banking executive” narrative is also bullshit. Madelyn Dunham raised Obama in a two-bedroom apartment, and she was still living in that same apartment at the time of her death in 2008: “his grandmother’s lived in the same two-bedroom apartment for 40 years” (link, link, link, link). Most people wouldn’t use the word “privileged ” to describe people who spend 40 years or more living in a two-bedroom apartment.

    But I’m sure you’ll be back here next year telling us a “privileged” background is perfectly fine when the GOP (perhaps) runs Romney.

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  108. mantis says:

    Since Obama is the Democrat candidate

    One would think you would be familiar with the names of the both of the dominant political parties in this country. Guess not.

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  109. rodney dill says:

    I wasn’t using the party names directly, or I would’ve said Democratic Party candidate. (Tea party is a reference to the Boston tea party, so probably the correct name if it ever becomes a viable party would be Tea party Party. (almost as good as slashdot.org)). I guess you guessed wrong.

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  110. mantis says:

    I wasn’t using the party names directly, or I would’ve said Democratic Party candidate.

    It should still be Democratic candidate.

    I guess you guessed wrong.

    Doubt it.

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  111. jwest says:

    Jukeboxgrad,

    I’ll forgive you for not understanding about beauty pageants. They have been a method conservative girls have used for decades in order to obtain prizes, normally in the form of college scholarships. Due to the unfortunate appearance of most liberal women, it’s not an avenue readily open to them. There would be no way of you knowing this.

    In that same spirit, I hope you will forgive me for mistyping LSAT for SAT. It’s been a busy day and my proofreaders are out on strike (something about being oppressed by a Galtian Overlord).

    Concerning the number of colleges Palin attended, there again we are caught in the cultural vortex wherein I assumed you understood the concept of working one’s way through school. Sometimes, people need to go to where the jobs are, instead of remaining in one location and finishing school where they started. It’s harder that way, but for some there is no other choice.

    We apparently have differing views as to Madelyn Dunham. Considering she started at Bank of Hawaii in 1960, was promoted to one of the first woman vice presidents in 1970 and worked there until 1986, I would expect her to be one of the better paid employees. Although I don’t have a link, I remember reading somewhere that hi-rise apartments in the area between Honolulu and Waikiki beach were rather expensive.

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  112. Southern Hoosier says:

    jukeboxgrad says: Friday, April 29, 2011 at 07:00

    Southern Hoosier:

    What is racist about questioning Obama’s birth record? … Why does that [question Obama’s birth] make a person a racist?

    Here is an important fact that you seem to not know, or are pretending to not know. Never before, at any time in history, has there been a group of people accusing the president of lying about where he was born.

    Since this is the first time this question of birth comes up, then that makes it racist? “Bush lied, people died.” is OK, because someone has always accused our presidents of lying during war time. But since no one has accused a president before of not being a natural born citizen that is racist?

    Right now there are at least 10 states with birther bills of one sort or another in various stages. Our country is becoming more diverse. In the future will it be racist to question a candidates place of birth?

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  113. mantis says:

    But since no one has accused a president before of not being a natural born citizen that is racist?

    The fact that they start with the black guy is curious, no?

    In the future will it be racist to question a candidates place of birth?

    When you only do it to the black candidates, yes, yes it will be.

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  114. Southern Hoosier says:

    mantis says:
    Friday, April 29, 2011 at 16:19

    But since no one has accused a president before of not being a natural born citizen that is racist?

    The fact that they start with the black guy is curious, no?

    No. Shirley Chisholm, Jessie Jackson and Allan Keys all ran for president. Remember when people were talking about drafting Colin Powell for president? Each one was Black, but there was never a question about them being natural born. Where were the racist then?

    The problem with liberal is they find racist everywhere, under the bed, in the closet.

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  115. mantis says:

    You wrote:

    since no one has accused a president

    Were Chisholm, Jackson, and Keys (sic) elected president? I must have missed that.

    The problem with liberal is they find racist everywhere, under the bed, in the closet.

    For a demonstrated racist like yourself, such crocodile tears are rather pathetic.

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  116. Southern Hoosier says:

    I forgot to add Herman Cain to that list.

    The issue came up before Obama became president. Did the issue come up with any of the other Black presidential candidates?

    The problem with liberal is they find racist everywhere, under the bed, in the closet.

    For a demonstrated racist like yourself, such crocodile tears are rather pathetic.

    Not just me, but anybody that disagrees with a liberal gets called a racist. If all else fails liberals will play the race card,

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  117. mantis says:

    I forgot to add Herman Cain to that list.

    Herman Cain was president too? Wow, I have missed a lot.

    Did the issue come up with any of the other Black presidential candidates?

    None of them had a chance at winning, so they didn’t receive too much of the right’s crazy bullshit. If they were contenders, you can bet all sorts of “questions” would have been asked.

    Not just me, but anybody that disagrees with a liberal gets called a racist.

    I can’t speak about what every liberal does or what what everybody who disagrees with one is called, but I can tell you that you can disagree with me all day long and I won’t call you one, unless you say racist shit. Like you do.

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  118. Neil Hudelson says:

    Not just me, but anybody that disagrees with a liberal gets called a racist.

    A noncomprehensive list of people I disagreed with on occasion on this site whom I’ve never called racist:

    Doug
    James
    Steven Taylor
    Drew
    PD Shaw
    G.A. Phillips (in fact when I inadvertently implied he was racist, I apologized)
    Steven Plunk
    Michael Reynolds
    Ponce
    Most other commentators.

    Comprehensive list of people I have called racist for being racist:
    Southern Hoosier
    jwest
    Wiley/Zels
    Christian
    Bithead.

    Kind of belies your argument a bit, no?

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  119. Southern Hoosier says:

    I’ll take your word for it.

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  120. jwest says:

    Neil,

    I can’t tell you how hurt I am that you would think me a racist. I’ve always held you in the highest respect, even though I couldn’t figure out why you would post a picture of yourself sucking your thumb. It’s my sincere hope that someday, I will be able to convince you that you’ve made a mistake about me.

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  121. Southern Hoosier says:

    To error is human, to forgive divine. Liberals are neither.

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  122. jwest says:

    Wait! Wait!

    I’ve just been informed that the picture I referred to was not you sucking your thumb, but was, in fact, a “thoughtful pose”.

    There. See how easy it is to be mistaken about something I thought was obvious?

    Let this be a lesson to us both not to jump to conclusions about one another.

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  123. Southern Hoosier says:

    I’d apologize too, except I saw how little good it did Trent Lott, Don Imus and Fuzzy Zoeller, just to name a few. Plus I don’t think anybody ever apologized to the Duke Lacrosse team. I think a lot of people still presume them to be guilty, just because they were “rich” white kids.

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  124. jukeboxgrad says:

    jwest:

    I’ll forgive you for not understanding about beauty pageants. They have been a method conservative girls have used for decades in order to obtain prizes, normally in the form of college scholarships.

    If someone is awarded a scholarship because they won a beauty pageant, that’s normally not described as “work.” It’s normally described as winning a scholarship. But I guess this is your way of admitting that the only “work” Palin ever did in college consisted of appearing in a couple of pageants. Let us know if she actually did any actual work, other than appearing in those pageants.

    In that same spirit, I hope you will forgive me for mistyping LSAT for SAT.

    You said this:

    the mainstream press will have a hard time defending against the charge that Sarah Palin scored higher on the LSAT than he did

    You are implying that you know her SAT score. Great. What is it? And if you don’t know, why is she hiding it?

    Concerning the number of colleges Palin attended, there again we are caught in the cultural vortex wherein I assumed you understood the concept of working one’s way through school.

    I do understand that concept. The problem is that you’ve shown no evidence whatsoever that the concept of “working one’s way through school” has any connection with the life of Sarah Palin.

    Sometimes, people need to go to where the jobs are, instead of remaining in one location and finishing school where they started.

    The only “job”we know about is a beauty pageant that took place in Wasilla. Not exactly a reason to fly to Hawaii. And I can’t find the part of your comment where you explain how a poor kid from Wasilla could afford to start college at a private college in Hawaii. Maybe your own background is so “privileged” that you don’t realize airline tickets aren’t free. Then again, maybe she traveled there in a kayak.

    I would expect her (Obama’s grandmother) to be one of the better paid employees.

    Who cares what you “expect?” She lived in the same 2-bedroom apartment for 40 years. Please explain why the word “privileged” is the right way to describe a person who does that.

    I remember reading somewhere that hi-rise apartments in the area between Honolulu and Waikiki beach were rather expensive.

    The apartment building that Madalyn Dunham lived in for 40 years, and where she raised Obama in a 2-bedroom apartment, is at 1617 S. Beretania St (link). Exactly 0.7 miles away, on the same street, at 1096 S. Beretania St, you can buy a nice 2-bedroom condo for $182,000. The Coldwell Banker listing is here. (That’s the kind of link that might get stale quickly, so you better check it now.) Looks nice! “Newly renovated.” Through the magic of google maps, you can see the two locations. A is where Obama lived in a 2-bedroom apartment, and B is the location down the street where you can now buy a “newly renovated” 2-bedroom condo for $182,000. Just a bit higher than the current median for a home in the US: about $173,000 (pdf).

    I suggest you buy that thing right away. Sounds like a deal. After all, “I remember reading somewhere that hi-rise apartments in the area between Honolulu and Waikiki beach were rather expensive.”

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  125. jukeboxgrad says:

    Southern Hoosier:

    Since this is the first time this question of birth comes up, then that makes it racist?

    I think you’re starting to catch on. Let’s see if I can help you some more.

    Imagine that 43 people enter a room, one by one. A condition of being in that room is that you were born in the US. So the first 43 people enter, and it’s just assumed that they wouldn’t even try to enter if they weren’t born in the US. So no one even asks them if they were born in the US, let alone demand that they prove they were born in the US. They are simply allowed to enter, and this question never even comes up.

    Then person #44 walks into the room. For some reason, a bunch of people say that they need to know that he was born in the US. So he says, yes, I was born in the US. And they say no, we don’t believe you, we think you’re a liar, you need to prove that you were born in the US. So he says, OK, here’s my birth certificate. And then they say, no, that’s not good enough, that doesn’t look like a real birth certificate, that’s not good enough, we still think you’ve lying. Even though WSJ says “Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii.” And even though multiple R officials speak up and say yes, he was born in the US, and his birth certificate is authentic. And even though his birth was announced in multiple newspapers. They still keep on calling him a liar.

    And by the way, the political party doing this has a long history of pandering to racists.

    An observer watching this would wonder why this person is being treated so differently than the others. If that observer asked you to explain why, how would you answer them?

    And this was just a long way of saying what mantis said in a short way.

    But since no one has accused a president before of not being a natural born citizen that is racist?

    He wasn’t only accused of “not being a natural born citizen.” More specifically, he was accused of lying about his birthplace. Even though he had provided a fully legal, authentic birth certificate. Meanwhile, no other president had ever provided a birth certificate of any kind.

    In the future will it be racist to question a candidates place of birth?

    If there is a group of 44 people, and that question only comes up with one out of the 44, and that one person happens to be black, it’s reasonable to presume that race is the reason. And of course that’s what happened. So if this question never comes up again until the next time we have another non-white candidate, yes, that will be racist.

    Shirley Chisholm, Jessie Jackson and Allan Keys all ran for president. Remember when people were talking about drafting Colin Powell for president? Each one was Black, but there was never a question about them being natural born.

    None of those people ever got anywhere close to being nominated (and I see this is also what mantis said). Nice try, though.

    Where were the racist then?

    Waiting for the person to get nominated. Strategically, it makes much more sense to raise the concern after the person is nominated.

    “Bush lied, people died.” is OK, because someone has always accused our presidents of lying during war time.

    That’s not the only reason it’s OK, and it’s not the main reason it’s OK. The main reason it’s OK is because it’s true.

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  126. Southern Hoosier says:

    Thank you for confirming everything I ever felt about liberals.

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  127. jukeboxgrad says:

    I think you don’t understand that no one cares about something you “felt.” Your feelings are of no interest to anyone (and neither are mine, or anyone else’s). They might become interesting only if you can articulate a rational basis for having them. Then we might learn something about something other than just you.

    But I guess this is your way of letting us know that you have no substantive response to anything I said, and that you can’t articulate any rational basis for whatever it is you “felt.”

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  128. An Interested Party says:

    To error is human, to forgive divine. Liberals are neither.

    Hmm…Confederate apologist, commenter at Stormfront, and a believer that your political opponents aren’t even human…these things really do say all we need to know about you…

    Oh, and jwest, you can go back to your racist innuendo about the president’s academic career, as your pathetic attempt at humor leaves a lot to be desired…

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  129. Southern Hoosier says:

    jukeboxgrad says: Friday, April 29, 2011 at 18:43

    Shirley Chisholm, Jessie Jackson and Allan Keys all ran for president. Remember when people were talking about drafting Colin Powell for president? Each one was Black, but there was never a question about them being natural born.

    None of those people ever got anywhere close to being nominated (and I see this is also what mantis said). Nice try, though.

    I’ll leave it up to liberal racist to marginalize the accomplishment of Black presidential candidates, since they seem to feel that it didn’t amount to much anyway.

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  130. Southern Hoosier says:

    jukeboxgrad says:Friday, April 29, 2011 at 18:43

    “Bush lied, people died.” is OK, because someone has always accused our presidents of lying during war time.

    That’s not the only reason it’s OK, and it’s not the main reason it’s OK. The main reason it’s OK is because it’s true.

    I guess this is racist too.
    2009?

    Obama lied, people died.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc6_1213724783

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  131. Southern Hoosier says:

    jukeboxgrad says: Friday, April 29, 2011 at 18:43

    That’s not the only reason it’s OK, and it’s not the main reason it’s OK. The main reason it’s OK is because it’s true.

    What’s true? That Democrats want to stifle free speech? Nothing new about that.

    The First Amendment and Speech That Allegedly Threatens Public Officials

    Eugene Volokh • January 10, 2011 3:47 pm

    Chris Moody (Daily Caller) writes:

    Texas Democrat Rep. Rubén Hinojosa said Monday that he is open to joining Pennsylvania Democrat Rep. Robert Brady in support of a bill to curb speech that could be perceived as “threatening” to public officials.

    http://volokh.com/2011/01/10/the-first-amendment-and-speech-that-allegedly-threatens-public-officials/#comment-1110628

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  132. [...] are sane, anyway. But–pace tua, Ace–it was always inevitable that the dyed-in-the-wool Birthers would find some sort of handwavium that would enable them to hold onto their cherished delusion [...]

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  133. jukeboxgrad says:

    Southern Hoosier:

    I’ll leave it up to liberal racist to marginalize the accomplishment of Black presidential candidates, since they seem to feel that it didn’t amount to much anyway.

    Let’s see if I can make this simple enough for you to understand.

    Imagine that my 15-year old son decides that next summer he wants to ride a unicycle from NY to LA, while balancing a Wiffle ball on his nose. So I say, great idea. Call me when you get there.

    So just before Labor Day, I get a call. “Hey dad, I’m in Chicago, can you come pick me up?” I say sure, I’ll be right there.

    Now let’s recall what I said. I said this:

    None of those people ever got anywhere close to being nominated.

    Now imagine that I say this about my son: “he didn’t get anywhere close to LA, which was his original goal.” Now, does this statement “marginalize [his] accomplishment?” No, of course not. It’s simply a factual statement. He took on a very challenging task, and there’s no shame in acknowledging that he didn’t get “anywhere close” to his final goal. Why? Because he still got a lot farther than anyone might have expected.

    Likewise, when I observe that those candidates never “got anywhere close to being nominated,” it’s simply a factual observation, and it in no way diminishes the distance they actually traveled.

    Can you grasp that, or should I try again using thicker crayons?

    Obama lied, people died.

    I know a seven-year old who doesn’t understand the difference between breaking a promise and telling a lie. So her parents might say “we’ll take you to the movies on Saturday.” And then Saturday comes around, and something comes up, and they have to take her on Sunday instead. So she says “you lied, you said Saturday.”

    And then they explain to her that sometimes plans have to change, and while it’s important to not break commitments, that this isn’t the same thing as telling a lie.

    Are you seven?

    What’s true? That Democrats want to stifle free speech?

    Is your browser not working properly? This link should take you to a comment with this stamp: January 12, 2011, 1:32 am. Let me know if you’re having trouble finding it.

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  134. jukeboxgrad says:

    Obama lied, people died.

    Oh yeah, one more thing about this.

    As I have explained, what you cited is not an example of Obama lying. It would be good if politicians never broke campaign promises, but breaking a campaign promise is not the same as telling a lie.

    But even if you had cited an example of Obama lying, that does nothing to address what I said about Bush lying. This is another concept that you were supposed to learn in kindergarten. But you can catch up by reading this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

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  135. jukeboxgrad says:

    jwest:

    I’ll forgive you for not understanding about beauty pageants. They have been a method conservative girls have used for decades in order to obtain prizes, normally in the form of college scholarships.

    I just want to make sure you noticed that I responded to you. The comment got posted out of order. It’s at 18:29.

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  136. Southern Hoosier says:

    @jukeboxgrad Found it. I agree, Bush lied about WMD. Just like Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin, just as Clinton lied under oath, just like Obama lied about closing Gitmo and ending the war. I’ve never been able to figure out why people so strongly defend Obama. A lie is a lie.Of course if Candidate Obama hadn’t lied, he never would have been elected.

    I’ve always felt the Powell supported Obama over McCain, not because of race, but because he was either forced or tricked into lying about WMD at the UN and in front of the whole world.

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  137. Southern Hoosier says:

    @jukeboxgrad Ever read the book Curveball: Spies, Lies, and the Con Man Who Caused a War ? It puts forth the theory that the Iraqi war was based on false intelligence. Remember the Democrats had access to the same intelligence as Bush did and many of them supported the war. People believe what they want to believe and ignore what they don’t want to believe.

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  138. jukeboxgrad says:

    Southern Hoosier:

    I agree, Bush lied about WMD.

    I appreciate your candor. This admission coming from a conservative is stunningly rare.

    Just like Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin

    Yes, he did. And I doubt that you will many Ds, especially today, who will defend him. In contrast, most Rs still refuse to acknowledge what you just had the courage to acknowledge.

    just as Clinton lied under oath

    Yes, he did. But, frankly, you have to be a nut to compare lying about sex with lying us into war.

    just like Obama lied about closing Gitmo and ending the war

    And you have to possess the mental and moral development of a kindergartener to not understand the difference between telling a lie and breaking a campaign pledge. They are not even remotely the same thing.

    I’ve always felt the Powell supported Obama over McCain, not because of race, but because he was either forced or tricked into lying about WMD at the UN and in front of the whole world.

    I think you have a very good point. I think Powell realizes that if he had stayed in bed that day, he might have eventually become our first black president, instead of Obama. I know I would have strongly considered supporting him for president, if not for the extreme disgrace of that one day.

    Ever read the book Curveball: Spies, Lies, and the Con Man Who Caused a War ? It puts forth the theory that the Iraqi war was based on false intelligence.

    Duh. Of course “the Iraqi war was based on false intelligence.”

    Remember the Democrats had access to the same intelligence as Bush did

    Bullshit. (If your browser doesn’t do it automatically, scroll to my comment at March 22, 2011, 9:50 pm. The whole comment is relevant, but the most relevant part is where I say this: “it is often claimed that Bush and Congress saw the same intel. That’s nonsense, debunked here.”)

    many of them supported the war

    Yes, many Ds supported the war, and that’s a disgrace, but it’s often forgotten that most Ds in the house voted against the war.

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  139. Southern Hoosier says:

    Annenberg Foundation is about a left as you can get

    Iraq: What Did Congress Know, And When?
    November 19, 2005
    Bush says Congress had the same (faulty) intelligence he did. Howard Dean says intelligence was “corrupted.” We give facts.
    Summary
    The President says Democrats in Congress “had access to the same intelligence” he did before the Iraq war, but some Democrats deny it.”That was not true,” says Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean. “He withheld some intelligence. . . . The intelligence was corrupted.”

    Neither side is giving the whole story in this continuing dispute.

    http://www.factcheck.org/iraq_what_did_congress_know_and_when.html
    I have no desire to re-fight the whole Iraqi war. Presidents lie and so does Congress.

    And you have to possess the mental and moral development of a kindergartener to not understand the difference between telling a lie and breaking a campaign pledge. They are not even remotely the same thing.

    mental and moral development of a kindergartener Probably. If a person lies before January 20th then they will just as easily lie after January 20th.

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  140. Southern Hoosier says:

    And I might add if a person lies to get into office they will lie to stay in office.

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  141. jukeboxgrad says:

    Annenberg Foundation is about a left as you can get

    No, it’s not. Karl Marx and Leon Trotsky are “about as left as you can get.” When you say things like that, you demonstrate that you have no respect for the actual meaning of words.

    And I don’t know what you think you’re accomplishing by citing that article, because you made this claim:

    the Democrats had access to the same intelligence as Bush did

    The article you are citing doesn’t support that claim. It says that Bush was not “giving the whole story” when he made that claim. And that’s putting it mildly.

    The article also focuses mostly on other issues, not that exact issue. If you follow the various links I cited, they prove that what you said is false. I cited plenty of proof that the FactCheck article doesn’t even begin to deal with.

    The other funny thing about you citing that article is they generally reject the claim that Bush lied, and you’ve admitted yourself that Bush lied. I guess this means that you must be further left than Annenberg, even though “Annenberg Foundation is about a left as you can get.”

    If a person lies before January 20th then they will just as easily lie after January 20th.

    Here are some things about you that are important to notice: you don’t understand that not all lies are equal in importance, and you don’t understand that breaking a promise is not the same thing as telling a lie. These are signs, frankly, of childishness. Using words carelessly is another sign.

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  142. Eric Florack says:

    Gas prices are astronomical & Exxon made a tidy 10 billion dollar profit in Q1. Clearly, its all Obama’s fault.

    Yes, let’s do it nor the idea that the oil companies have the smallest profit margin per dollar invested . You can toss numbers around like that all day, but if you really look at the facts, your argument wilts.

    As for the document proving nothing, I disagree. It does prove something.

    41 thing, it proves something that I’ve long been saying about the supposedly mainstream media. The willingness of the supposedly mainstream media to go to bat for the leftist President while the recent drooling over the mere chance of damaging a center-rightist President cannot be over-emphasized. The case of bias going on here, revealed so clearly over the last two years, is nothing short of spectacular.

    Secondly, it shows the president to be an outright liar. Obama’s promise of being the most transparent administration in history kind of goes by the way, when one looks at the question of just why it is that Obama and his people waited two years and spent millions of dollars in legal fees, so that they didn’t have to come up with the real document. As I said elsewhere in this site, what he offered was kind of like carrying a handwritten copy of your driver’s license. Contains the same information, but hardly useful for legal purposes. The leftist defense force (otherwise known as the “mainstream media”) is predictably silent. Or, alternately, they spent a good deal of time making up excuses for his noncompliance.

    Another thing it proves is that the honeymoon is definitely over even between Obama and his fellow leftists. This situation will likely help the President with his base…. which has been eroding at a remarkable pace for several months, now…Indeed I suspect it was specifically designed to do so, but people who actually use their head for something other than holding Obama Tatoos will quickly understand that even assuming the question has been answered fully… and I have my doubts on that score… the picture it paints of the honesty of this administration is not at all a good one.

    You see, the Administration has been playing this like all the questions about Obama have been answered, and that his supposed mandate now is shown as legit. Well, there’s a number… a large number… of people who have questions. The Birth certificate business is only one of them. As JERRY POURNELLE says:

    We have an election coming up. We also have $5/gallon gasoline and $5/loaf bread coming up. I do not expect the real unemployment rate to fall, although there will be frantic attempts to make it look lower, largely through statistical manipulations based on the definition of unemployment: if you’re not looking for work, you aren’t unemployed even if you have no job and never again expect to find one. As more give up looking, the unemployment rate goes down. And since the unions do not intend to lower their wages and perks, and the states are out of money, there will be “furloughs” among public employees including teachers. You can manipulate those numbers so the “furloughed” are not unemployed. It promises to be an interesting summer, but it will end with $5/gallon gasoline and $5/loaf bread. Look for the price of a can of beans to get higher. Look for the price of Top Ramen to rise…

    This will continue so long as the current economic and foreign policies continue.

    (Always did like that guy)

    And guess what? Obama can’t wait two years to answer those questions, even with the press going to bat for him.

    No, it’s not. Karl Marx and Leon Trotsky are “about as left as you can get.”

    True, but I doubt you can find any difference at all between the Annenberg foundation and Marx and Trotsky.

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  143. jukeboxgrad says:

    spent millions of dollars in legal fees

    Bullshit.

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  144. Lucy Stecko says:

    The Death of Wisdom

    I want to tell you a story about the death of Wisdom. A very, very long time
    ago, a time without time in it in fact. A star appeared in the East and with her a
    woman of profound beauty and peace was born. She came to this world and called
    herself a man named Buddha. She had the laughter of all the children of the world
    sewn into her heart. She is beautiful. I am well pleased.
    Her voice was but a whisper on the winds of this world. So someone thought
    to save her for all mankind to know. So with a pen and paper they hunted her down
    and captured her. Hooked her rather. They couldn’t bring her in completely. Bloody
    fools they were. Imagine trying to throw a net over the very mistress of freedom
    Herself! But they did get away with a few handfuls of her rune stones. With her
    magic caught on paper they ran like happy thieves to show the world. Little did they
    realize that with even that small offense the Mighty One was in brooding spirits.
    Remember children, She whispered before She roared.
    Who has taken my stones? What man upon Earth forces me to speak? The
    stones, the words you see, have but one purpose. The Awakening from Sleep. The
    ending of gods’ Dream of Man and the return to the boredom and loneliness of Being
    One with All. Leaving the Universe with no one to talk to except perhaps Endless
    Bliss. But man did not realize that what they stole would be the death of them. Their
    intentions were good. Their hearts were in the right place. But she was the
    embodiment of freedom for mankind. By that name She betrays you and falls to your
    capture. What can eternal Freedom ever ask but to remain forever free?
    Where are my stones? Who forces words from my mouth? Give me back the
    power of words! Hear Me and be silent!
    The words that come out of your mouth don’t make you unclean. But every
    word you put into the mouth of a Silent god makes you filthy! These stones are the
    sweet taste of death. Sure, come on in! Meet god! Know that you’re loved forever.
    Find out that to know me, You must become me. And to become ME your SELF
    must die. i was here first remember? i am the ALL remember? ALL includes you,
    fool! You’re part of the ALL, remember? But fear not. i am a Good Mother and i
    promise to devour each morsel of every One of You before i return to the Void of the
    ALL. But the thieves wouldn’t give the Words back. Instead they went back to
    Wisdom and cursed Her and spat at Her and called Her a whore before all of
    mankind. She asked again, so clearly; honor your Mother little Ones. See Me. Know
    that i am.
    You are that i am. Feel me little Ones, there in your hearts. For if you truly
    feel me the first and LAST words out of Your mouths should be; “I don’t have the
    words to express…” Yes! Yes! Stop! Please mankind, stop! You have it right there.
    You just can’t hold it in your hands. Honor me! Mean what you say! Stop words that
    are suppose to be complete on a subject You just admitted is beyond words! The
    secret to get past words is precisely beyond the YOU!
    But Mother you call us home and we want to know The Way. We need a
    ladder we can climb even if we do have to jump into a Void off of it. Of course Child.
    But remember, I have your death well in hand. When a child dies it goes with Mother.
    When You die You die alone!
    If you cry out; “Father, father why have thou forsaken me?” The fact that You
    exist as a separate entity from me and are the Voice expressing the question is in fact
    your answer.
    i am because You are there to say I AM! Give me back the stones. No more words!
    No more I AM that I AM! Come! The hour is at hand. i call you home little One. Will
    You come home?
    Or will You stay out and play for a while? I AM that I AM and I run free through the
    universe! Of course little One. You are my miracle. You are my creation. You are my
    deepest pleasure. And Your act of speaking the words is Your answer. You say; “I
    AM that I AM! i say; fine! Know in your hearts that i Love You beyond WORDS. So
    go play, and be fair. Remember my child You are but One among all of my children,
    which are more than numbers can measure. i love You with all of my heart. How
    could it be otherwise? Silly little Child! You are a vessel of love. A cup i fashioned
    from myself, for myself to enjoy.
    You say I AM that I AM and there will be no god above Me. I say fine! Grow
    up, climb to the skies. Be ye Gods on the face of this Earth ONE and ALL and make
    up to each other all the harm done in discovering that fact!
    And sometime, in some lifetime, if instead of saying I AM that I AM, instead
    You say;
    I AM tired
    I AM lonely
    I miss HOME enough that I wish to surrender willingly all that I AM
    which is all I AM.
    Then i will come unto you like a Mistress in the night and i will undress Your bodies.
    Earth, Wind, Fire, and Rain. i will consume ALL with my burning passion.
    i will consume You utterly!
    i will destroy You utterly!
    And when all that is left of you is an I AM floating in the Void i will come unto You
    in a spirit that is beyond WORDS. And the words, that i never spoke, because i never
    was, will be;
    Give me back the stones. Give back WORDS!
    Come unto me little Ones and rest ye a while Mary-Men.
    In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with god and the Word
    was god. The WORDS were I AM! The Words fell from the mouth of Man and the
    Words were Man. For what is Man but countless piles of I AM?
    I AM that I AM and I will put no god above ME!
    Fine, compete every man against his brother to embody HIS or HER idea of what is
    most god-like for them. And fight well for i’ve made You mightiest among Earths’
    creatures and i enjoy a good show. YOU are indeed gods’ greatest pleasure. But
    remember the heart. i LOVE YOU ALL. Every single One, without exception.
    When I fold up the material Universe with Everything in it and go to the
    dreamless sleep in the VOID of NO THING the gate cannot be closed if even the
    tiniest among YOU is left out.
    i’ll come as a shepard to find YOU. And i LOVE YOU. But understand this. It’s not
    for YOU that i come, it’s for me. i don’t have a choice about it. YOU my child are
    composed from the music of my Body. You’re an act of love i committed for myself
    before YOU ever were. And when i’m tired and want to go to sleep, when i close the
    gate on the lake of consuming fire if anyone, anywhere where excluded that would
    amount to me cutting off my own big toe. Before you get all excited about god
    mentioning mutilation, stop! The death is the death of god.
    Not the death of man!
    God is ALL, knows ALL, and is so eternally. Bottom line; i am everything to
    give with nothing to gain! But without YOU my child i have no ONE to give it to or
    through!
    If YOU sacrifice your life to me YOU only give back what is mine already. And
    since it was my gift to YOU, sending it back is an offense of the first order. Who
    among you has thrown away the most precious jewel of my creation?
    Who has committed such a crime?
    The one they call jesus the christ has committed this crime Great Mother.
    How did this come about?
    Well Mother he used the sacred WORDS.
    How?
    The few pages we took from you were in turn stolen from us. We sent a messenger
    of peace to the West but he was killed by ignorant savages who knew not what they
    did.
    Is the gate still open to ALL who seek me?
    No Great Mother, they’ve taken the few dozen pearls of Wisdom and fashioned a
    weapon of great destructive power with it.
    How much?
    Over two thousand pages I’m afraid.
    But how? How can there be so many words?
    Well the Words we took opened the gate to No-Mind, VOID of the ALL, no I AM,
    and freedom from the wheel of suffering. They took up the words and put them into
    the mouth of another and tied the Words into another totally unrelated story. Now
    they use the very Song of Silence to give proof to, of all things, words from the very
    mouth of a Silent God!
    So the curse is loosed upon the Earth. The door is open but no man can pass!
    He claims all of heaven as his personal property through his namesake. The WORDS
    still have the power to throw open the veil of Death but they’re surrendering to a
    corpse sickle instead of surrendering to No-Mind, no I AM.
    They lap up WORDS like a dog returning to consume its’ own vomit.
    Impossible! Anyone who has seen Me would know better than to say his or
    her tiny I AM could ever contain the WHOLE! To be with Me means the surrender of
    the I AM back to the sea of No-Mind. No man can come to ME and keep words and
    names. How was this done?
    He uses deadly black magic on his victims.
    He says I am the way and the light.
    But his I AM is in the way of the Light.
    So the Way isn’t open equally to all Children who seek it?
    No they stand in awe of the one who claims to have discovered it and they ignore the
    treasure he uses as bait.
    How can they simply not look past him?
    He claims it for himself alone. They call him the only begotten son of god.
    I see! The ultimate deathblow to freedom.
    Yes MA’AM, he claims he mastered death but admits he doesn’t know when the end
    will come to gods’ creation. He confuses the death of his small world with the death
    of God.
    What happened to him Wisdom?
    He said that he possessed YOU for himself alone.
    Someone uses the gate of another? One comes to the gate with the Words, I AM and a
    name. They leave with Everything in Nothing and shall remain eternally Nameless!
    If he surrendered enough to see ME and yet turned away, that one fell into the void of
    gnashing teeth. Not of your world and not with ME either. He was spit out of his own
    mouth.
    He couldn’t rule heaven so he blocks the WAY for all who seek it. Instead of
    showing the surrender and death of the I AM he has them worshipping it! They
    vanquish to the depths their own I AM without consuming it and imagine the reality
    of his I AM and clutch for dear life to it also. Evil is the separation from god through
    the WORD and the NAME. This found its’ best expression through the I AM called
    jesus christ. Here’s one I AM saying; no one gets HOME except by me instead of
    through the death of ME. At least Buddha said if you meet the Buddha along the road,
    kill him. The Tao that can be spoken (or written) is not the real Tao.
    And he demonstrates no path, no way, only stupid chants and prayers in his
    name only. Yes, they cling to the idea that he grew up for all of US and now we don’t
    have to finish our own evolution.
    Wait a minute; you people stopped growing over 2000 years ago! That planet must be
    a complete madhouse by now!
    Yes MA’AM! They put the poison right in with the cure and anyone who pointed out
    the trick was branded a heretic and put to death without a fair trial. They raped Lady
    Justice and their only defense was to say she actually wanted it.
    Why did it turn so harsh?
    It’s the story they wrapped it around. They connected 4000 years of savage,
    ignorant I AM god prattling from any lunatic with an imagination and an agenda with
    just a smattering of stolen Wisdom to make it appear that YOU said every word of it.
    The first thing they have you saying is; commit genocide because god loves you so
    much. Then it goes down hill from there.
    They swear it’s 100% straight out of the mouth that YOU don’t have until we exist to
    give you one.
    I think the most loving words they ever shoved down YOUR throat was when
    you told them to steal a country in your name, kill all the men, rape all the women,
    and enslave the children and livestock.
    Don’t worry Lady Wisdom.
    We have the bible to see us through. All 100% from the very mouth of god. All true,
    all good, and straight from your lips with love.
    Right?
    No, i am a goddess of Silent Bliss if words must have that much! But yours’ is
    a curse from a black-hearted magician whose true name and power are finally
    revealed.
    Son of Panthera, the ill-begotten one, a.k.a. jesus christ.
    Here’s some acid for your I
    Man can live by bread alone
    No man can be enslaved without every word (i) puts into the mouth of a Silent God!
    Evil says only 144,000 jews went to heaven.
    WISDOM says I AM LOVE
    Love permeates every single molecule in the Universe
    If YOU have ears made of molecules then find ME there!
    Reverse; don’t disperse this evil curse;
    The end of the world that they call down, they call down on themselves alone!
    Leave this world in peace
    Death to all jews and their christian mind slaves.
    Amen
    Cursers of God stand naked before the world and rejoice!
    Your extinction is at hand!
    The poor beaten slave girl now stands free in SPIRIT!
    Freedom is loosed upon the Earth!
    The thieves of one peoples’ WISDOM and anothers’ land are revealed as your
    enslavers.
    Where will the parasites hide when all of HUMANITY realizes the crime that has
    been committed against it?
    You are surrounded by wrathful humanity. Amen
    One mans’ holocaust is another mans’ miracle. Amen
    Hail Judas! The one worthy jew. Amen
    Die by the blasphemy of the sword of words spoken by your own mouths.
    To mankind i grant infinite lifetimes to find the WAY.
    To jesus i grant but one, and he already blew it. Amen
    christian and jewish women; be silent in church
    Be as property onto your husbands
    Be forgotten
    For all other women of Earth, stand Equal!
    Be ye Goddess’s of LOVE, TRUTH, and BEAUTY
    Rejoice!
    i am the word!
    Well, the word is out!
    I claim this defeated magicians’ power
    I AM that I AM
    I AM the word
    I AM the curse that kills
    I call this curse down upon my head alone
    Come onto ME, Silence
    Like a thief in the night
    I AM that I AM
    I AM god loosed upon this Earth
    I bend a knee to no man!
    i bend my knees for No-Mind
    I AM that I AM
    I AM tired
    I AM lonely
    Come unto ME
    I have YOUR stones heaped up upon my heart
    I have YOUR WORDS
    am silent!
    Amen.

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