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Republicans In Congress Open To Banning Bump Stocks

Republicans on Capitol Hill are apparently open to the idea of passing legislation to outlaw Bump Stocks, the relatively inexpensive add-on that can effectively convert an ordinary semi-automatic weapon into a fully automatic weapon:

WASHINGTON — Top congressional Republicans, who have for decades resisted any legislative limits on guns, signaled on Wednesday that they would be open to banning the firearm accessory that the Las Vegas gunmanused to transform his rifles to mimic automatic weapon fire.

For a generation, Republicans in Congress — often joined by conservative Democrats — have bottled up gun legislation, even as the carnage of mass shootings grew ever more gruesome and the weaponry ever more deadly. A decade ago, they blocked efforts to limit the size of magazines after the massacre at Virginia Tech. Five years later, Republican leaders thwarted bipartisan legislation to expand background checks of gun purchasers after the mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Last year, in the wake of the Orlando nightclub massacre, they blocked legislation to stop gun sales to buyers on terrorism watch lists.

But in this week’s massacre in Las Vegas, lawmakers in both parties may have found the part of the weapons trade that few could countenance: previously obscure gun conversion kits, called “bump stocks,” that turn semiautomatic weapons into weapons capable of firing in long, deadly bursts.

“I own a lot of guns, and as a hunter and sportsman, I think that’s our right as Americans, but I don’t understand the use of this bump stock,” Senator John Cornyn of Texas, the No. 2 Republican in the Senate, said, adding, “It seems like it’s an obvious area we ought to explore and see if it’s something Congress needs to act on.”

Mr. Cornyn said the continuing legality of the conversion kits was “a legitimate question,” and told reporters he had asked Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, the Judiciary Committee chairman, to convene a hearing on that issue and any others that arise out of the Las Vegas investigation.

Other Republican senators, including Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Orrin G. Hatch of Utah and Marco Rubio of Florida, said they would be open to considering legislation on bump stocks.

“We certainly want to learn more details on what occurred in Las Vegas,” Mr. Rubio said, “and if there are vulnerabilities in federal law that we should be addressing to prevent such attacks in the future, we would always be open to that.”

In the House, Representative Carlos Curbelo, Republican of Florida, said he was drafting bipartisan legislation banning the conversion kits. Representative Mark Meadows, the head of the conservative Freedom Caucus, also said he would be open to considering a bill, while Representative Bill Flores, Republican of Texas, called for an outright ban.

“I think they should be banned,” Mr. Flores told the newspaper The Hill. “There’s no reason for a typical gun owner to own anything that converts a semiautomatic to something that behaves like an automatic.”

In an often deadlocked Washington, none of the pronouncements guaranteed action. The National Rifle Association, which has poured tens of millions of dollars into Republican campaign coffers, remained mum on the bump stock discussion and could stop it cold.

And Erich Pratt, executive director of another gun rights group, Gun Owners of America, vowed to block any legislation.

In addition to the lawmakers noted above, House Speaker Paul Ryan stated in an interview this morning that he was open to the idea of banning these types of add-ons, stating in one interview that he was unaware that such devices even existed until the Las Vegas shooting and he’s an avid hunter who has been frequently photographed back home in Wisconsin joining friends during deer hunting season. Bob Goodlatte, the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, has also said he would support such an idea assuming the language of the specific bill were acceptable. Ryan and his fellow leaders in the GOP Caucus have also responded to the Las Vegas shooting by quietly shelving a bill that would have eased the rules regarding the sale of gun silencers. No such device was used in the Las Vegas shooting, of course, and there haven’t been any reporters that the shooter, Stephen Paddock, owned any such devices, but it’s clear that Ryan and the House GOP leadership realizes that the idea of the House passing such a bill in the wake of what happened Sunday night would, at the very least, be incredibly bad public relations. Other than the Gun Owners of America, a gun rights group that is to the right of the National Rifle Association when it comes to Second Amendment issues, there doesn’t appear at the moment to be any prominent gun rights advocate who is outright rejecting the idea of Congressional legislation aimed at banning Bump Stocks. So far, though, the NRA itself has remained silent on the issue despite what has apparently been repeated requests for comment from several media organizations.

As I noted in my post yesterday, the only purpose that these Bump Stocks and similar add-ons appear to serve is to allow someone to turn an ordinary semi-automatic rifle (which essentially means any rifle) into a fully automatic weapon for as little as $100. This would allow them to bypass a law that has been on the books for more than thirty years now that bans the sale or manufacture of any fully automatic weapon to a member of the general public. The only exceptions to this law apply to weapons manufactured prior to 1986, and in order to legally own such a weapon an individual must undergo a background and law enforcement check by the ATF and other law enforcement agencies that is far more rigorous than the ordinary background check associated with purchasing a handgun, rifle, or other sorts of currently legal weapon as well as the payment of application and license fees that exceed several thousand dollars. On top of this, the weapons themselves are quite expensive, meaning that the entire process of obtaining such a weapon can easily run into the five-figure range. A device that effectively allows someone to bypass this thirty-year-old law that no sane person can oppose.

How quickly Congress might act on this issue is, of course, another issue entirely. Over in the Senate, Dianne Feinstein has already introduced a bill that would ban Bump Stocks0 that is essentially the same bill that she proposed on this issue several years ago. Currently, though, that bill only has a handful of co-sponsors and they’re all fellow Democrats. Ideally, though, this is the kind of legislation that ought to be introduced by Republicans and should originate in the House, where it would likely face its stiffest test. If it can get through the House, and I suspect that it could, then it would easily pass the Senate and make its way to the President’s desk in relatively short order. Of course, nothing is quite that simple in Washington. As things stand, House Republicans are clearly trying to give tax reform priority treatment and Paul Ryan has said he’d like to see a bill passed and sent to the Senate by the end of October. That doesn’t necessarily leave a lot of time for something that will need to thread the needle of gun politics in Congress to make its way through the House, but the initial comments from top Republicans in both the House and the Senate is enough to give one hope that Congress may actually do something this time. We’ll see if they follow through.

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About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway. Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. grumpy realist says:

    Looks like the shooter was also trying to blow up a jet fuel tank?

    Complete nihilism.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  2. grumpy realist says:

    …and another stupid gun death.

    He’s already propagated, so he isn’t quite eligible for a Darwin Award.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  3. JKB says:

    the only purpose that these Bump Stocks and similar add-ons appear to serve is to allow someone to turn an ordinary semi-automatic rifle (which essentially means any rifle) into a fully automatic weapon for as little as $100.

    Your emotionalism is betraying you. Surely, if you are able to settle down and return to rational thought you’d see that that is not the only purpose of bump stocks. They serve a very legitimate purpose for people with limited use of their fingers, such as someone with arthritis in their hands. They permit the movement of the entire barrel and receiver assembly against a stationary finger rather than often movement of the finger itself. And such manual cycling was deemed as not a modification controlled under the NFA by the BATF under the Obama administration.

    The addition of an elastic device, such as a spring, to mechanically move the barrel/receiver assembly after initial firing is an illegal modification creating a machine gun under the NFA and likely not permissible even under license due to the 1986 law. It should be noted, that a shoestring can be rigged to achieve the same illegal modification. So, Congress should be outlawing springs, elastic material, rubber and string.

    However, a rational bit of restriction, which we know is not the goal of the current submitted bills, might be to restrict the possession of bump stocks to those with a documented disability under a no-cost license administered by BATF.

    In any case, other DemProgs are working overtime to ensure there can be no compromise on gun issues by their quick calls for the murder of Republicans, Trump supporters, NRA members, etc.

    Nancy Sinatra called for all NRA members to be shot by firing squad today. Just an aside, what other group wore boots, were big on gun control and shot those they disliked by firing squad? Yes, Nancy has chose to look a lot like a Nazi or fascist. Although, we could also include Bolsheviks/Communists.

    Poorly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 15

  4. JKB says:

    @grumpy realist:

    Or some of the rounds from weapons modified to be near uncontrollable when rapid firing (granted, not a big issue when firing indiscriminately into a crowd), went wide.

    He owned a couple plane and should have been aware the aviation fuel is kerosene with some additives and very hard to ignite, much less cause to explode. That is outside a movie/tv set, you can’t ignite aviation fuel with small arms fire.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

  5. James Pearce says:

    @JKB:

    Or some of the rounds from weapons modified to be near uncontrollable when rapid firing (granted, not a big issue when firing indiscriminately into a crowd), went wide.

    How did he get all those guns up into his room?

    (Figured I’d ask the expert.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  6. Stormy Dragon says:

    @grumpy realist:

    Looks like the shooter was also trying to blow up a jet fuel tank?

    Complete nihilism.

    I object to the continued misuse of the word nihilism as a synonym for evil.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  7. Mikey says:

    @Stormy Dragon: Nihilists! Fvck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  8. al-Ameda says:

    @JKB:

    In any case, other DemProgs are working overtime to ensure there can be no compromise on gun issues by their quick calls for the murder of Republicans, Trump supporters, NRA members, etc.

    Nancy Sinatra called for all NRA members to be shot by firing squad today. Just an aside, what other group wore boots, were big on gun control and shot those they disliked by firing squad? Yes, Nancy has chose to look a lot like a Nazi or fascist. Although, we could also include Bolsheviks/Communists.

    Please know this, when I need to know where I should stand on any issue, I look to “celebrities” like Nancy Sinatra, Ted Nugent, and Donald Trump for guidance.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  9. PT says:

    @Mikey:

    thanks Mikey, somebody had to say it :)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  10. wr says:

    @JKB: “They serve a very legitimate purpose for people with limited use of their fingers, such as someone with arthritis in their hands. ”

    Just wondering, JKB, what other accomodations have you advocated for the disabled? Kneeling buses? Curb cuts? Or are you just using this population as a tool to justify your slavish desire to make sure that nothing even tangentially related to firearms can ever be regulated?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  11. MarkedMan says:

    I hope JKB’s neighbors and family are keeping a close eye on him and will let the police know if he is behaving even more unusually than normal. I know that most gun obsessives such as himself live their whole lives without trying to act out some twisted fantasy, but we should remember just how often the mass shooters are also gun obsessives. Sure some are “inspired” by their Christian or Muslim faith, but an awful lot of them were deep into the gun obsessive culture as promoted by the manufacturers and their marketing arm (NRA).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  12. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Mikey:

    The whole point of the nihilists in that movie is that despite calling themselves nihilists, they very obviously weren’t actual nihilists. It’s actually reinforces my point about how the word gets misused.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  13. TM01 says:

    You know why the commenters on this site suck?

    They all down-vote JKB’s comment, which is pretty much the only comment here containing facts and rational discussion of a subject.

    The device was invented by an Air Force vet recovering from a brain injury who wanted an easier way to shoot. He designed it and submitted to the BATF, who determined it was perfectly legal. (During the Obama administration, btw.)

    “The stock has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed … “In order to use the device, the shooter must apply constant forward pressure with the non-shooting hand and constant rearward pressure with the non-shooting hand. Accordingly, we find that the ‘bump stock’ is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under the Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act.”

    I seriously get into better discussions on Facebook.

    Facebook for crying out loud.

    #Sad

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 10

  14. KM says:

    @JKB:

    They serve a very legitimate purpose for people with limited use of their fingers, such as someone with arthritis in their hands. They permit the movement of the entire barrel and receiver assembly against a stationary finger rather than often movement of the finger itself.

    Alright, I’ll be the one to say it: WHY are we making it easier for people who can’t use a gun properly to be able to use a gun? Seriously, if you have arthritis or your hands shake, WHY should you be allowed to endanger others with your impaired aim? Usually some sort of medical condition that impairs you from operating the gun correctly causes you to be a danger to others. Instead of accepting that maybe you shouldn’t be shooting anymore, we’re literally making it easier for you to kill people as you physically and mentally degenerate. Accuracy takes effort as well as physical and mental acuity. A non-accurate shooter is a walking menace.

    It’s like being old and driving – at some point, you need to admit you shouldn’t be trying to help Grandpa not drive up the wrong exit ramp but take the keys away. Even the gunslingers in the Old West knew when it was time to hang up their spurs – what’s wrong with modern day gun nuts that they think an elderly person with a ton of medical problems should be able to mow down a whole street easily?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  15. Stormy Dragon says:

    @MarkedMan:

    I hope JKB’s neighbors and family are keeping a close eye on him and will let the police know if he is behaving even more unusually than normal.

    And the mask slips, revealing this is really just an excuse to use the police as extrajudicial punishment for MM’s political opponents. And then they wonder why people think “sensible gun control” is really a Trojan horse.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

  16. KM says:

    @TM01:

    The device was invented by an Air Force vet recovering from a brain injury who wanted an easier way to shoot.

    The fact that you don’t see anything wrong with that sentence is why the downvotes happen. “Brain injury” and “shoot” shouldn’t be in the same sentence EVER. My God, someone creates something that lets them get back to killing after the organ that determines reasoning, skill, muscle control, emotional control and everything else is *damaged* and you’re OK with that??? People with TMI can’t drive right away in some states since it’s too dangerous but we hand them a gun and it’s all good?!

    This is what we mean when we say the gun culture is sick. That man should have realized it’s was time to stop or had his family intervene. Instead, we now have something that enables mass murder for people who have been incapacitated. This is not an uplifting story about someone overcoming their disability; this is the story about someone who created a monster all because of the Cult of the Gun.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2

  17. Daryl's other brother Darryl says:

    @JKB:

    They serve a very legitimate purpose for people with limited use of their fingers, such as someone with arthritis in their hands.

    hahahahahahahahahahaha
    You have reached new heights….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

  18. Daryl's other brother Darryl says:

    Precocious Republicans pretending to have free will.
    The NRA will have them all back in line any minute now.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  19. Jen says:

    @KM: You said exactly what I was going to say.

    But, for emphasis, even though you already have I will.

    If someone has arthritis in their hands, they cannot control a weapon with sufficient strength or stability. The answer here is not to modify weapons making it easier to shoot. The answer is to accept that perhaps it’s time to find a new hobby. Because that’s all an AR or similar are relevant for–you don’t need them for home protection, and if you need one to hunt, you’re a lousy hunter (again, find another hobby).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

  20. James Pearce says:

    @TM01:

    I seriously get into better discussions on Facebook.

    Hey, I believe it. When they’re not sharing You Tube videos of trying to cook bacon on their suppressors, the gun nuts of Facebook are notoriously reasonable people.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  21. Daryl's other brother Darryl says:

    Just to correct some fake news being peddled by the Trump Administration. Obama did not approve bump stocks. What the ATF found when they reviewed it was that:

    “We find that the bump stock is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act,”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  22. Daryl's other brother Darryl says:

    Hey…the cute idiot is running for Corkers vacated seat…

    Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) on Thursday announced that she will run to fill the Senate seat Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) will leave empty when he retires in 2018.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  23. KM says:

    Another thought: Why doesn’t the US military let you serve when disabled or have TBI if all you need is a bump stock to compensate? Could it possibly be the people who, you know get shot at for a living, don’t want you out there since you’d be a liability? That someone who can’t aim right or control their weapon is $&^#$%&& dangerous? That trigger discipline will suffer, gun safety go to hell and basically your chance of friendly fire go up exponentially?

    The US military doesn’t think it’s a good idea. Why do civilians get to suffer from these risks if our soldiers don’t?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  24. Daryl's other brother Darryl says:

    @KM:

    Why do civilians get to suffer from these risks if our soldiers don’t?

    Look…we need to make periodic human sacrifices to the second amendment. It’s just the way it is. Get over it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  25. gVOR08 says:

    @grumpy realist: Jet fuel is basically well filtered kerosene with additives. Not near as easy to ignite as gasoline.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  26. MarkedMan says:

    @Stormy Dragon: No, it’s not about “extrajudicial force against my political opponents”. To tell you the truth, that sounds like its coming from the “Sandy Hook was a government job” school of paranoia.

    It’s simple. There is no way we are getting guns out of the gun obsessives hands. Just as society expects our Muslim members to police their co-religionists and see if they are starting to go down a bad path, we should also expect anyone who knows a gun obsessive to keep an eye on them and see if they are starting to go down a bad path. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you make that argument about Muslims. Why wouldn’t it apply to gun obsessives?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

  27. Daryl's other brother Darryl says:

    @TM01:

    I seriously get into better discussions on Facebook.

    Well yeah…because you and the Russians agree on pretty much everything.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  28. John430 says:

    From CNN: Bump-fire stocks allow semi-automatic weapons to simulate automatic fire but “do not actually alter the firearm to fire automatically, making them legal under current federal law,”

    Pray tell: How do you outlaw a piece of plastic that may or may not have a spring set in it? Given the rise of 3D printers I guess that one could be made in a few minutes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

  29. Stormy Dragon says:

    @MarkedMan:

    No, it’s not about “extrajudicial force against my political opponents”. To tell you the truth, that sounds like its coming from the “Sandy Hook was a government job” school of paranoia.

    You literally just said you hoped the police would go investigate JKB. Now JKB’s political views may be foolish, but they’re certainly not criminal and he’s never threatened violence toward anyone.

    So please explain to us, other than the thoughtcrime of disagreeing with MarkedMan, what has JKB done to warrant police investigation?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

  30. Stormy Dragon says:

    @MarkedMan:

    I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you make that argument about Muslims.

    Provide an example, you slanderous POS.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  31. James Pearce says:

    @John430:

    How do you outlaw a piece of plastic that may or may not have a spring set in it? Given the rise of 3D printers I guess that one could be made in a few minutes.

    This line of argument is so stupid. 3D printers do not make gun laws unenforceable. A lack of will does.

    Weed laws didn’t stop people from growing weed. But they sure put a bunch of em in jail, dint they?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

  32. Lit3Bolt says:

    Time to ban assault rifles period. Unless “conservatives” want fresh off the boat Syrian immigrants to be “naturalized” into the white American male culture, where you kill until you suicide.

    Make no mistake…ISIS and their adherents are watching the tactics of white American killers, and will emulate them.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  33. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @JKB:As to the motivation and purpose for the invention of the sliding (bump-fire) stock maybe you should rely on the statement of the inventor, Jeremiah Cottle:

    A friend and I were out shooting one day and we weren’t able to fire as fast as we wanted. We couldn’t afford what we wanted – a fully automatic rifle – so I started to think about how I could make something that would work and be affordable.” to the Albany (Texas) News, Dec 2011)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  34. Just 'nutha ig'nint cracker says:

    @MarkedMan: “Why wouldn’t it apply to gun obsessives?”

    Because gun obsessives are white while Muslims are… well, Muslim?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  35. Gromitt Gunn says:

    @TM01: And yet, you still come here.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  36. KM says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    So please explain to us, other than the thoughtcrime of disagreeing with MarkedMan, what has JKB done to warrant police investigation?

    Nothing yet. Don’t know the man personally but I’d be willing to bet nothing in the immediate future either.

    But since the Los Vegas police were complaining that nobody stepped forward to tattle on Paddock when it was obvious something wasn’t right, can you explain why vigilance wouldn’t be something to consider? He’d been hording weapons for decades and that’s now a “clue”. After nearly 17 years of “If you see something, say something” has been pounded to the public, it’s very curious how once that concept gets expanded out to the majority, we start seeing defensive backlash. Quite a few gun owners and Boomers would fit a profile similar to Paddock’s so why wouldn’t a red flag from him not be a red flag for another?

    BTW not trying to pick a fight or harp on anyone – I’m genuinely curious why someone who’s freely professed to exhibit one of the warning signs of the latest shooter shouldn’t at least get a side-eye or a second thought.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  37. MarkedMan says:

    @Stormy Dragon: You’re putting words in my mouth. I said his family and friends should keep an eye on him. I don’t think I can be any clearer. Given how many of these mass shooters have been members of the gun obsessive crowd, it is a social obligation on those that know a gun obsessive to keep and eye on them and see if they are starting on a bad path. I explicitly stated that a very tiny percentage of gun obsessives actually act out to go on a killing spree.

    Based on your comments, I would assume you are a gun obsessive also, so you will be around others in that group. You should be keeping an eye on them. They should be keeping an eye on you. By definition people in that community have the firepower to inflict tremendous carnage. People that spend time with them are the ones that should be the most vigilant.

    Or are you literally saying that people should not keep an eye on someone who obsesses over guns?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  38. MarkedMan says:

    @Stormy Dragon: OK, I spent 10 minutes on the Google and couldn’t find anything, and taking a closer look at your comments, its doesn’t seem to be the type of thing you would have said, so I retract my comment. But I won’t apologize, because I didn’t intend it as an insult. In fact, it’s the opinion I hold: the people in a group that has a disproportianate history of massacres have an obligation to keep an eye on those that exhibit extreme behavior. We all have that obligation, but the affected groups have an especial obligation, in my opinion.

    Other people that fall into that group: People around Catholic Priests such as Catholic school staff, for a different type of heinous crime. People that know someone who expresses extreme hatred of a certain group. It’s just common sense. It’s not fair, but life isn’t fair.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  39. wr says:

    @John430: “Pray tell: How do you outlaw a piece of plastic that may or may not have a spring set in it? Given the rise of 3D printers I guess that one could be made in a few minutes.”

    I don’t know. How do you outlaw a weed that grows wild if a seed drops? And yet there are an awful lot of people in prison for marijuana.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  40. Daryl's other brother Darryl says:

    @wr:
    Yeah…but that’s different…most of them are black.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  41. KM says:

    Now even the NRA and White House are looking to throw bump stocks under the bus. So all defenders, what say you?

    JKB, is the NRA’s “emotionalism betraying” them like Doug’s was? Stormy, is this call for “sensible gun control really a Trojan horse”?

    Or is everybody going to fall in line and pretend they haven’t been arguing against this line of thought for days now? After all, the NRA is the defender of the 2nd Amend. Surely they wouldn’t toss you under the bus and side with libs, right?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  42. Just 'nutha ig'nint cracker says:

    @KM: Because “if you see something, say something” is about gangs and Muslims and not about innocent WHITE Murkuns (who happen to own enough guns to arm a platoon).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  43. James Pearce says:

    @wr: I guess you should put me back on your “to read” list. Jinx!

    @Daryl’s other brother Darryl: Nah, most potheads are white.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  44. Jack says:

    @Lit3Bolt:

    Time to ban assault rifles period.

    An assault rifle was not used. Please catch up.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  45. grumpy realist says:

    @KM: I remember reading a comment someone made on one of the “how to get the keys away from Dear Old Dad” sites talking about the problems they had had in getting the firearms away from Dear Old Dad who was steadily going loopy with something that resulted in panic-stricken rages.

    Yeah, a brain-addled geezer with bad vision and an uncontrollable temper is exactly who I want to trust with live firearms…I DON’T think so!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  46. John430 says:

    @James Pearce: You have your head up your butt. Using grass is an ongoing and now public usage thing. With a bump-stock you don’t walk around town showing it off and you can’t buy it in stores, fool. There aren’t any clubs where they sit around telling stories about how bump-stock stoned they were last night., either.
    I don’t own a gun and wasn’t making a statement, just posing the question. Banning a passive plastic add-on is like saying knives are instruments of mass murder so let’s outlaw knife handles.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  47. gVOR08 says:

    In addition to bump stocks, the GOPs are backing off the bill legalizing silencers. Here’s a video of little Donnie Jr. pushing silencers during the campaign, claiming he shoots every weekend, and mouthing NRA talking points. Dweeb.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  48. James Pearce says:

    @John430:

    Banning a passive plastic add-on is like saying knives are instruments of mass murder so let’s outlaw knife handles.

    No. It’s not.

    Banning a “passive plastic add-on” that turns a semi-auto into a full-auto, a method that was just used in our latest and greatest gun massacre, is NBD.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  49. Bob The Arqubusier says:

    “Silencers?”

    Hollywood-style “silencers” don’t exist. What these things do is reduce the sound the guns make from “damage your hearing” to REALLY LOUD and still quite recognizable as gunshots.

    It’s a safety measure, not an assassin’s secret weapon. At least, in the real world.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

  50. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @John430:

    With a bump-stock you don’t walk around town showing it off and you can’t buy it in stores, fool.

    Actually you can buy in several gun stores, and looking at the hundreds of youtube videos of people showing off their f’ing awesome bump-fire stock performance, yeah I’d agree that “you do show it off”.

    The inventor, Cottell says” Sales exceeded $10 million and 35,000 units in the first year” (2010 or 11)

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  51. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Jack:

    An assault rifle was not used. Please catch up.

    What was used is a firearm that functions like a military assault rife.

    Quacks like a duck…. etc.

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  52. Mikey says:

    @Bob@Youngstown:

    What was used is a firearm that functions like a military assault rifle.

    In form and all but one function (the ability to select burst/full auto), the weapons Paddock used are assault rifles. And he attached a device to eliminate that single functional difference.

    So, to anyone but the most pedantic of gun zealots, an assault rifle was used.

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  53. MarkedMan says:

    You know, I neither think it is desirable or possible to take everyone’s guns away. But the gun obsessives on this site are making a good argument that is the only solution. Every suggestion about increasing safety or decreasing gun access by dangerous people is met with scorn. No counter suggestions. To the gun obsessive, it is simply not possible to do anything to improve the situation. And look at the reaction when I simply suggested that anyone who associates with someone who stockpiles large amounts of weapons should keep an eye on them!

    You know, to paraphrase Game of Thrones, it is useful to ask, “What if the motivations of the gun lobby were the worst possible, what would they do then? And are they acting like that now?”

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  54. wr says:

    @James Pearce: Yeah, I saw yours after I posted mine. There was another thread I agreed with you on, thought I don’t remember if I’d posted there.

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  55. Bob The Arqubusier says:

    @MarkedMan: Every suggestion about increasing safety or decreasing gun access by dangerous people is met with scorn.

    That’s because every suggestion has been not only stupid, but provably wrong.

    The numbers from the Vegas shooting were 59 killed, 124 wounded by gunshots (the majority of the casualties appear to have been from the crowd’s panic, not the shooting directly).

    That’s a typical month in Chicago. For example, in September, they had 58 shot and killed, 273 shot and wounded. And Chicago has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country.

    So far this year, there have been 503 people shot and killed in Chicago, with another 2,425 wounded. That’s 56 a month killed, 269 wounded every month.

    So, why all the outrage over Vegas, and the silence over Chicago? Is it because it’s spread over a month instead of a single evening? Is it because of the race of the majority of the victims? Is it because of the race of the majority of the victims?

    These “common sense” solutions have been tried in places like Chicago, and they have resulted in the murder capitol of the nation. Why the hell would anyone consider implementing the same policies anywhere else?

    BTW, it’s been a little over a year since Texas allowed legal gun owners to carry concealed weapons on college campuses. And by some astonishing miracle, there hasn’t been a single incident. What the hell happened to all those accidental shootings and random massacres that were so inevitable?

    There has to be some point where reality outweighs all your prejudices and theories, right? When you bring yourself to admit that you just might be wrong?

    Or do even more people have to die so you can protect your ego?

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  56. Bob The Arqubusier says:

    @Bob The Arqubusier: Somehow, I said “Is it because of the race of the majority of the victims?” twice, and neglected to say “is it because of the race of the killers?”

    Still more coherent than most of the arguments usually made around here, though.

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  57. James Pearce says:

    @Bob The Arqubusier:

    the majority of the casualties appear to have been from the crowd’s panic, not the shooting directly

    This sentence indicates that you are not thinking about this clearly. ALL of the casualties, including the ones caused by panic, were directly caused by the shooting.

    So, why all the outrage over Vegas, and the silence over Chicago?

    There has been no silence over Chicago. Thanks to the conversation over Chicago, you were able to Google all kinds of useful information on the subject. (Except, apparently, for that part about how Chicago’s gun laws are often undermined by their proximity to Indiana.)

    Also:

    it’s been a little over a year since Texas allowed legal gun owners to carry concealed weapons on college campuses. And by some astonishing miracle, there hasn’t been a single incident. What the hell happened to all those accidental shootings and random massacres that were so inevitable?

    My guess? Very few students in Texas actually take their guns to school and the ones who do quickly realize there is no point. It’s a college campus, not a saloon in Deadwood circa 1875.

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  58. Bob The Arqubusier says:

    @James Pearce: Really? When was the last discussion about Chicago’s astronomical murder rate around here?

    And if Indiana’s gun laws are such a problem, why doesn’t Indiana have anywhere near the gun problem that Illinois does?

    Chicago doesn’t have a gun problem. Chicago has a Chicago problem. It has way, way too many people who are willing and eager to kill each other

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  59. James Pearce says:

    @Bob The Arqubusier:

    When was the last discussion about Chicago’s astronomical murder rate around here?

    It’s not an object of fixation, but it does come up from time to time. I mean, yesterday isn’t the first time I’ve heard about Chicago’s gun problem…

    And if Indiana’s gun laws are such a problem, why doesn’t Indiana have anywhere near the gun problem that Illinois does?

    You tell me. It’s entirely possible Indiana’s gun laws are great for Indiana but a problem for its neighbors.

    Chicago doesn’t have a gun problem. Chicago has a Chicago problem.

    There it is. “Chicago has a Chicago problem” is the right-wing version of “Texas has a Texas problem.” Look, I get it. All these American patriots can’t stand half the country they claim to love.

    Do y’all have to be so proud of it?

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  60. engineerman says:

    @John430: @wr: you make it a felony to put them on a rifle and offer a reward say 1000 bucks for information on anyone who has one

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  61. Tyrell says:

    @Bob The Arqubusier: Breaking news: it has happened again!
    Man driving a van runs over people in London! Dozens
    injured!
    When is this madness going to end?
    How is it going to end?
    I think something else is going on in these cases: of a demonic cause!
    For the last few months I have been avoiding using sidewalks at busy places. Our town is small, so I do not have to worry here.

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  62. Tyrell says:

    @grumpy realist: Las Vegas sheriff said this guy had help. Special forces members say they could not pull this sort of thing off alone. Some police and other people saw shots come from a lower floor.

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