• Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Subscribe
  • RSS

Rush Limbaugh’s ‘Phony Soldiers’

Media Matters has again successfully embroiled the blogosphere in a controversy with a press release. The latest, entitled “Limbaugh: Service members who support U.S. withdrawal are ‘phony soldiers,’” has gained wide circulation on the left. The lede:

During the September 26 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh called service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq “phony soldiers.”

This got even the likes of Steve Benen going. He begins his post, “Limbaugh calls service members who support withdrawal ‘phony soldiers’”,

Rush Limbaugh smeared countless U.S. service members — ranging in rank from private to general — who dare to believe that withdrawal from Iraq is a good idea. As Limbaugh described it, those in uniform who disagree with him are “phony soldiers.”

Matt Yglesias, though, comes within an inch of getting it right:

Rush Limbaugh calls anti-war troops “phony soldiers.” One wonders if he’s literally doubting the existence of such people, and thus proving himself to be an idiot, or metaphorically doubting their authenticity as soldiers, thus proving himself to be morally contemptible. Both are, obviously, plausible end-states for Rush.

If one looks at the transcript, it’s rather clear that it’s the former. Limbaugh is no idiot but one of his favorite rhetorical devices is defining a group in a very narrow way and then claiming anyone who doesn’t fit that definition but nonetheless identifies himself that way is either a liar, a plant, misguided, or the like. Indeed, there are several instances of this in the exchange in question (highlights mine):

RUSH: Mike, you can’t possibly be a Republican.

CALLER: I am.

RUSH: You can’t be Republican.

CALLER: Oh, I am definitely Republican.

RUSH: You sound just like a Democrat.

CALLER: No, but seriously, Rush, how long do we have to stay there?

RUSH: As long as it takes.

CALLER: How long?

RUSH: As long as it takes. It is very serious. This is the United States of America at war with Islamofascists. Just like your job, you do everything you have to do, whatever it takes to get it done, if you take it seriously.

CALLER: So then you say we need to stay there forever?

RUSH: No, Bill — (Laughing) or Mike. I’m sorry. I’m confusing you with the guy from Texas.

CALLER: I used to be military, okay, and I am a Republican.

RUSH: Yeah.

CALLER: And I do listen to you, but —

RUSH: Right, I know. And I, by the way, used to walk on the moon.

CALLER: How long do we have to stay there?

RUSH: You’re not listening to what I say. You can’t possibly be a Republican. I’m answering every question; it’s not what you want to hear, and so it’s not even penetrating your little wall of armor you’ve got built up. I said we stay to get the job done, as long as it takes. I didn’t say forever. Nothing takes forever. That’s not possible, Bill. Mike. Whatever. Nobody lives forever, no situation lasts forever, everything ends. We determine how do we want it to end, in our favor or in our defeat? With people like you in charge, who want to put a timeline on everything — do you ever get anything done in your life? Or do you say, “Well, I wanted to have this done by now, and it’s not, so screw it”? You don’t live your life that way. Well, hell, you might, I don’t know. But the limitations that you want to impose here are senseless, and they, frankly, portray no evidence that you are a Republican.

Another Mike. This one in Olympia, Washington. Welcome to the EIB Network. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Rush. Thanks for taking my call.

RUSH: You bet.

CALLER: I have a retort to Mike in Chicago, because I am serving in the American military, in the Army. I’ve been serving for 14 years, very proudly.

RUSH: Thank you, sir.

CALLER: I’m one of the few that joined the Army to serve my country, I’m proud to say, not for the money or anything like that. What I would like to retort to is that, what these people don’t understand, is if we pull out of Iraq right now, which is not possible because of all the stuff that’s over there, it would take us at least a year to pull everything back out of Iraq, then Iraq itself would collapse and we’d have to go right back over there within a year or so.

RUSH: There’s a lot more than that that they don’t understand. The next guy that calls here I’m going to ask them, “What is the imperative of pulling out? What’s in it for the United States to pull out?” I don’t think they have an answer for that other than, “When’s he going to bring the troops home? Keep the troops safe,” whatever.

CALLER: Yeah.

RUSH: It’s not possible intellectually to follow these people.

CALLER: No, it’s not. And what’s really funny is they never talk to real soldiers. They pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.

RUSH: The phony soldiers.

CALLER: Phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they’re proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they’re willing to sacrifice for the country.

RUSH: They joined to be in Iraq.

CALLER: A lot of people.

RUSH: You know where you’re going these days, the last four years, if you sign up. The odds are you’re going there or Afghanistan, or somewhere.

To Limbaugh — at least Limbaugh the radio persona — if you disagree with his views, you’re not a Republican. If you say you’re a huge fan of his show but you disagree with him on this one issue, you’re a Democratic plant sent in with talking points, posing as a loyal listener to get past the call screener. If you claim to be a veteran or currently in the military and differ with him on military issues, you’re not really a soldier. Similarly, anonymous soldiers quoted in the press criticizing the war are fictitious. Liberal journalists fabricate them to spice up their stories.

He’s an exceedingly bright fellow — you don’t make yourself into a household name, basically invent a new medium, and last two decades doing three hours a day doing radio call-in otherwise — so my guess is this schtick is just an act used to bait the opposition and score points with his loyal listeners. I don’t think he actually believes this nonsense.

Regardless, it’s an infuriating and dishonest stance. Still, it’s not the same as what he’s being accused of here, though: Saying that soldiers who want to leave Iraq are therefore “phony soldiers.”

That said, as Media Matters, Benen, and others document, Limbaugh has a history of throwing around language suggesting that war opponents are un-American, un-patriotic, or worse.

As Media Matters for America has documented, Limbaugh denounced as “contemptible” and “indecent” MoveOn.org's much-discussed advertisement — titled “General Petraeus or General Betray Us?” — critical of Gen. David Petraeus, but has repeatedly attacked the patriotism of those with whom he disagrees. For instance, on the January 25 broadcast of his radio show, he told his audience that he had a new name for Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), a Vietnam veteran: “Senator Betrayus.” A day earlier, Hagel had sided
with Democrats
on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in voting to approve a nonbinding resolution declaring that President Bush's escalation in Iraq was against “the national
interest.” Additionally, on August 21, 2006, Limbaugh said: “I want to respectfully disagree with the president on the last part of what he said. I am going to challenge the patriotism of people who disagree with him because the people that disagree with him want to
lose.”

As Media Matters has also documented, on the August 2, 2005, program, Limbaugh repeatedly referred to Iraq war veteran and then-Democratic congressional candidate Paul Hackett as “another liberal Democrat trying to hide behind a military uniform” and accused him of going to Iraq “to pad the resumé.” On the day of Limbaugh's comments, Hackett narrowly lost a special election to Republican Jean Schmidt for Ohio's 2nd Congressional District seat.

This tactic is deplorable, if effective. It’s not solely a tactic of the Right, however: our debates on everything from abortion to affirmative action to welfare reform to Social Security is tinged with hateful language designed to put opponents on the defensive rather than focus on the merits of the policies under discussion.

There, is, however a not unimportant distinction in the Petraeus ad and Limbaugh’s outrageous attacks on Kerry, Hackett, and Hagel: The latter are/were politicians engaged in partisan contests to win political office while the former is a serving military officer constrained by his office from fighting back in kind.

Once one has taken off the uniform and entered the political fray, the gloves come off. Being a war hero doesn’t and shouldn’t give one a free pass in the political arena — although those who haven’t served should tread carefully, lest the attacks backfire. The attacks on the patriotism and military service of the likes of John Murtha, Max Cleland, Kerry, and Hagel are despicable; no more so, though, than other smear tactics (push polling, gay baiting, the race card) that have become routine in our campaigns.

Related Posts:

  • None Found

About James Joyner
James Joyner is the publisher of Outside the Beltway, an associate professor of security studies at the Marine Corps Command and Staff College, and a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm vet. He earned a PhD in political science from The University of Alabama. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter.

Comments

  1. Citizenship Exam Stresses Principles…

    ……

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  2. spencer says:

    I’m still waiting for anyone to point out where the MoveOn ad misquoted Petraeus.

    Can you show me anything in the ad that was incorrect.

    If so, Petraeus is perfectly free to sue them for libel. He can fight back.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  3. jpe says:

    Good comment; don’t Petraeus’s op-ed writing & TV appearances constitute intrusion into the political arena?

    I still don’t see how Rush didn’t call the soldier a phony. Maybe I’m a bit slow this morning, dunno, but I don’t get it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  4. Michael says:

    I dunno about Rush, but the caller sure seemed to think that any soldier who was there for a job, or disagreed with the war effort, was not a “real” soldier. Not in the sense that they are imaginary, but in the sense that they are somehow dishonorable or not “genuine” or “patriotic” like he is.

    See

    CALLER: I’m one of the few that joined the Army to serve my country, I’m proud to say, not for the money or anything like that.

    and

    CALLER: Phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they’re proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  5. […] to Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, AZAMATTEROFACT, DeMediacratic Nation, […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  6. Andy says:

    Rush Limbaugh calls anti-war troops “phony soldiers.” One wonders if he’s literally doubting the existence of such people, and thus proving himself to be an idiot, or metaphorically doubting their authenticity as soldiers, thus proving himself to be morally contemptible. Both are, obviously, plausible end-states for Rush.

    I don’t think there’s any need for either/or here, when “yes, to both” probably is the correct answer for Rush.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  7. whippoorwill says:

    Sounds like Rush was the first in the converstaion to use the term “Phony Soldiers” in describing Iraq vets who now criticize the war. You say it you own it.

    It appears to me the hateful buffoonery of Rush and his ilk is starting to wear thin amongst moderate republicans and right leaning independents who seem to be gearing up for a round of democratic voting at least for the next election. This could very well cause a seismic shift in the political landscape that would likely destroy the republican party as we’ve recently known it. What would be left are the Limbaugh”s nut jobs and thoughtful conservatives to rebuild a viable new conservative party. Kinda sounds like mission impossible but will be fun to watch.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  8. Andy says:

    It appears to me the hateful buffoonery of Rush and his ilk is starting to wear thin amongst moderate republicans and right leaning independents …

    Well, gosh, that only took about 15 years or so.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  9. Patrick T. McGuire says:

    Two points here:

    1> Rush Limbaugh has a very high respect, regard, and affection for the military and, judging from their actions, the feeling is mutual. There are numerous examples of this which I won’t detail here.

    2> If there are members of the military who are opposed to the US presence in Iraq, why the hell are they in the military to begin with? This is afterall a volunteer military and I don’t believe that there are any options for someone who joins the military to pick which wars are fought. I have never been in the military but I believe that new recruits know from the beginning that they will be told where to go and when to fight without their input on the matter. So why are they now calling for a withdrawal?

    Given that there are many cases of soldiers who have volunteered for multiple missions in Iraq when they had other options and the many cases of maimed soldiers fighting bureaucracy to rejoin the fight in Iraq, perhaps there is such a thing as a “phony soldier” in the same way that there are phony Republicans, e.g. Bloomberg, or phonies in any other organization.

    And, for what it’s worth, when I hear of someone who volunteered to join the military and then objects to the actions of that same military, I question their patriotism.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  10. […] Quite a bit more on this at OTB. Sphere: Related Content Filed under: Iraq, US Politics, Talk Radio | […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  11. […] Outside The Beltway has a good breakdown of the […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  12. James Joyner says:

    when I hear of someone who volunteered to join the military and then objects to the actions of that same military, I question their patriotism.

    That’s a bizarre position to take. People join for all manner of reasons but, surely, they don’t sign away their right to have an opinion.

    I joined during the Cold War and was then sent to Desert Storm to fight an optional war to get Saddam out of Kuwait. I supported the war but many didn’t.

    After I got out, Bill Clinton started sending troops to all manner of missions I disagreed with — all optional wars with no substantial American national security interests at stake. Had I remained in, I’d have probably still opposed those missions.

    Now, I believe active duty soldiers DO lose much of their right to speak out against their mission in public. But simply holding an opinion contrary to that of the president doesn’t make them unpatriotic.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  13. DC Loser says:

    when I hear of someone who volunteered to join the military and then objects to the actions of that same military, I question their patriotism.

    That’s easy to say from someone who self-professed to have not served in the military.

    I must be a phony veteran then.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  14. Anderson says:

    If there are members of the military who are opposed to the US presence in Iraq, why the hell are they in the military to begin with?

    McGuire, you’re kidding, right?

    You think a Reservist who gets called up can say, “you know, I think this is a stupid, hopeless war that will only get Americans killed to no good end,” and the Army responds, “why, GLAD YOU TOLD US, because this here is a VOLUNTEER ARMY! Go home, son!”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  15. Steve Plunk says:

    There are cases of “phony soldiers” protesting the war. These are actual civilians who claim service but have never served at all. There was a well publicized case in Seattle a while back. I could see and expect these are what Limbaugh was referring to. Of course Media Matters would want to make it look as bad as possible.

    It’s also a stretch to claim “if you disagree with his views, you’re not a Republican”. Anyone can call in and claim party affiliation but do as the caller did and take the position of the other party to an extreme. If I call in claiming to be a Dem but call for huge tax cuts, cuts in social programs, and increased surveillence I could expect someone to question my sincerity of being a Democrat. It’s a reasonable question to ask. There are trolls on the airwaves as well as online.

    Now I’m not a Rush listener so please no Limbot comments or such. I just see this as putting words into someone’s mouth.

    By the way, spencer, the problem with the ad was the “betray us”. That was inaccurate and slanderous.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  16. Back to the Moon & Then to Mars – Permanently!…

    TO THE MOON!Next Thursday, October 4, 2007 will be the 50th anniversary of Sputnik.  Aside from one brief shining ……

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  17. Anderson says:

    the “betray us”. That was inaccurate and slanderous.

    Okay, I’ll bite. Taking the factual allegations as true, how was “betray us” inaccurate or slanderous?

    “Betrayal” is just too vague to support those claims, I think. But, having no great interest in MoveOn, I am willing to be corrected.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  18. Patrick T. McGuire says:

    Now, I believe active duty soldiers DO lose much of their right to speak out against their mission in public. But simply holding an opinion contrary to that of the president doesn’t make them unpatriotic.

    James, we have no disagreement here. I never meant to imply that they can have no opinion on the matter. Further, I have no objection to them expressing that opinion in a non-public manner. It is when they choose the public forums to speak out against something they willingly joined in the first place that I have objections.

    That’s easy to say from someone who self-professed to have not served in the military.

    One of the main reasons I didn’t join the military was that my elegibility came during the tail-end of the Vietnam debacle. I opposed that war for many reasons. Given my objections to it, I couldn’t in good conscience join the military to support the war effort. In retrospect, I now wish that I had joined as a medic. Perhaps I could have saved a life that was lost in vain.

    But my position is still consistent. Rather than join the military and then speak out against its actions, I stayed out. Had I been drafted, I would have bitched and complained about it constantly, but not to the press. I would have been loyal to the mission.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  19. […] to Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, AZAMATTEROFACT, DeMediacratic Nation, […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  20. Patrick T. McGuire says:

    McGuire, you’re kidding, right?

    No Anderson, I am not kidding. The reservist that you use in your example, was he drafted into the reserves? Was he forced against his will to be a reservist? And being a reservist, doesn’t he/she risk being reactivated into full military service again? In other words, how does a reservist differ in any way from a fresh recruit?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  21. Michael says:

    And, for what it’s worth, when I hear of someone who volunteered to join the military and then objects to the actions of that same military, I question their patriotism.

    That’s the GOP “Support our Troops” spirit!

    Now I’ve never served either, but I had a friend who enlisted pre-9/11. He got discharged pre-Iraq, but about a year later was recalled to active duty. They actually threatened to put him in jail if he did not show up at his old base in another state by a certain date. Then they subsequently sent him to Iraq. So no, it’s not like they get a choice.

    Personal attack in violation of site policies deleted.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  22. lunacy says:

    I’ve got an old friend who is constantly organizing war protests, writing letters to the editor, general rabble-rousing against Bush and the war.

    He uses his “I fought in Viet Nam” credentials to lend authority to his position.

    Thing is, he never served in Nam. He was stationed Germany the entire time he was in the service. It was DURING the Viet Nam war but he didn’t fight or ever set foot in Nam or anywhere near Nam.

    So, yeah, his buddies who did serve in Nam are considering him a “phony soldier” and unpatriotic.

    SO…there is more than one way and more than one reason to consider someone or some soldier or some soldier wannabe (like Jesse McWhatever in Seatle) to be inauthentic.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  23. Uncle Pinky says:

    They pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.

    RUSH: The phony soldiers.

    I’m with Steve Plunk on this one. The moment I read that, I thought “Jesse MacBeth” who just got sentenced the other day. While I do hope that Limbaugh and I are not usually thinking on the same wavelength, it is simple enough to understand why he might have phony soldier ideation in the forebrain.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  24. Anderson says:

    McGuire, being a soldier means you do what you’re told and obey the rules.

    It doesn’t mean that you quit being a citizen, or that you think you’re being sent off to risk your life in a good cause.

    How to be a citizen soldier is by no means clear — the combination of modern discipline and modern liberalism is problematic — but I don’t think “you vill not qvestion der Fuehrer!!!” is anyone’s solution to the problem.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  25. Cernig says:

    James,

    It occurs to me that the bipartisan “In Honor” fund you graciously posted about yesterday is all the answer Limbaugh needs.

    Regards, C

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  26. anjin-san says:

    I’ve got an old friend who is constantly organizing war protests, writing letters to the editor, general rabble-rousing against Bush and the war.

    He uses his “I fought in Viet Nam” credentials to lend authority to his position.

    Thing is, he never served in Nam

    .

    Perhaps you need to be more selective about who your friends are…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  27. Patrick T. McGuire says:

    Oh, and you’re a piece of crap, just for saying what you said.

    Michael,
    As a general rule, I don’t respond to personal attacks from fools. However, I will say this: I have heard of many cases of individuals being forced back into the military against their will, which I don’t agree with. I have also heard of just the opposite, soldiers that are fighting to stay in after being declared unfit after losing limbs in battle. Neither of these two extremes represent the norm and shouldn’t be used as the total basis for arguing this matter.

    Since the service of your “friend” was not on a strictly voluntary basis, I would not in this case question his patriotism. It might be too subtle a distinction for you to understand.

    Anderson,
    In my job, I have two simple choices: I do what I am told or I quit. Or alternatively, I don’t do what I am told and I get fired. Now, granted the military don’t have the same options to quit, they know this going in from the start. They know that they give up a free choice in the matter. In other words, they voluntarily surrender their right to object when they join up. Right or wrong, that’s just the way it is.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  28. Michael says:

    Since the service of your “friend” was not on a strictly voluntary basis, I would not in this case question his patriotism. It might be too subtle a distinction for you to understand.

    No, it was a distinction you didn’t make, and a qualifier you don’t seem to check before questioning the patriotism of others. Even for those who voluntarily enlisted and have not been discharged yet, do you feel that they have no right to object to a specific mission, or specific orders, or even express their own view on their progress, just because they agreed to do as they were told?

    They know that they give up a free choice in the matter. In other words, they voluntarily surrender their right to object when they join up. Right or wrong, that’s just the way it is.

    Wrong, they did not give up the right to object, they just gave up the right to disobey. And they have as much right to write in an op-ed that the war is going badly as Petreaus had to write an op-ed that the war was going well. You seem to only question the right to state an opinion publicly when you disagree with the opinion personally.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  29. Ivory Ape says:

    Comment in violation of site policies deleted.

    We don’t accept long drive-by postings from people who clearly haven’t read the article.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  30. Uncle Pinky says:

    Thanks, Ape

    Figured it was something like that. Pretty shocking dishonesty, if this little imboglio hadn’t come from Media Matters.

    Seeing as it did, business as usual.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  31. Michael says:

    It’s funny, I’ve been reading blogs since before the Iraq war, especially some of the early liberal blogs, and this is the first I’ve ever heard of Jesse MacBeth. Was he really hyped-up on the left as much as Rush says he was, and I just somehow managed to miss it every time? Or was he largely discredited on the left also, but Rush is clinging to the few people who did take him seriously?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  32. Joe says:

    Rush had earlier in the day been talking about Jess MacBeth, who was without question a phony soldier. He spoke of him in the context that the Left-Wing always rallies around this type of protester until it comes to light that they have lied, but then quietly drop it without apology or further mention, hoping we’ll just forget that the “hero” who spoke against the war is actually a fraud. Then this caller makes reference to “phony solders,” and Rush continues in the same vein.

    To say that Rush called all service members who advocate withdrawal “phony solders” is simply a lie.

    I hope Rush sues MediaMatters.org for slander.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  33. Boyd says:

    Michael, I remember when MacBeth was uncovered, but I don’t recall the left side of the blogosphere talking much about him. There was a video, and Code Pink (or International ANSWER or whomever) were touting him at anti-war rallies, but I don’t recall liberal bloggers saying anything about him.

    Once he started gaining some attention, he was quickly pounced upon from the right, because he was a pretty obvious fraud for anyone who was familiar with the appropriate subjects (things that actually happened in Iraq, Army Rangers, how to wear an Army uniform, etc.).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  34. Uncle Pinky says:

    Got no problem with deleting the above comment from Ivory Ape, it might have violated fair use and that kind of headache nobody needs.

    I think the point was valid, however. Limbaugh was talking about actual phonies. Disturbed folks who claim to be soldiers, but are not. The extended transcipt makes that crystal clear. I bear no brief for Limbaugh, but this dishonest truncation on the part of MM, and that Benen and Yglesias didn’t read down far enough in the transcript (if they read it at all) is pretty grim.

    Yglesias says “One wonders if he’s literally doubting the existence of such people, and thus proving himself to be an idiot, or metaphorically doubting their authenticity as soldiers, thus proving himself to be morally contemptible.” and Dr. Joyner takes the transcript to indicate the former. But Yglesias is speaking of anti-war troops, whereas Limbaugh is speaking of impostors who are vocally anti-war, and celebrated as soldiers before their exposure..

    That is a valid distinction.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  35. Uncle Pinky says:

    Boyd, you are correct. The left side of the blogosphere did not talk about him much. That might be because he was debunked so quickly and thoroughly, after his TV time.

    Yeesh, I type far too slowly to get in ahead of Joe.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  36. Michael says:

    He spoke of him in the context that the Left-Wing always rallies around this type of protester until it comes to light that they have lied, but then quietly drop it without apology or further mention, hoping we’ll just forget that the “hero” who spoke against the war is actually a fraud.

    Which is also a lie. While trying to find mention of him on some liberal blogs, this was all I found on DailyKos (what is generally considered the extreme liberal fringe around here):
    http://www.dailykos.com/tag/jesse%20macbeth

    It seems that very few on the left even knew about this guy, and those that did write anything about him (most of them skeptical of his authenticity) posted corrections and apologies. There was never a rally, and there was in fact a public condemnation from anyone on the left who wrote about him and his allegations. It was in fact right-wing blogs that brought his guy internet fame, a right-wing blog that posted his propaganda video on YouTube. So you can’t go blaming this one on liberals or left-leaning bloggers/media.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  37. Joe says:

    It doesn’t matter which side of the blogosphere had more posts about the guy. The point is that THAT is what Rush was talking about. He was NOT calling all service-folk who favor withdrawal “phony soldiers.” He was calling that guy, and others like him “phony soldiers,” and that was plainly clear to anyone who listened to the show.

    MediaMatters.org was caught red-handed this time. They slandered Rush, and ought to pay.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  38. […] not really surprised that out of all the center right blogs who have covered this incident, only James Joyner and Michael van der Galiën come anywhere near my position. Ed Morrissey gives Limbaugh points […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  39. Michael says:

    Ok, I’ll give Rush the benefit of the doubt, but the caller he was talking with sure didn’t seem to be talking about MacBeth, he seemed to be talking about any anti-war/anti-Bush soldiers.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  40. […] read Rick Moran’s take on Limbaugh’s remarks. Rick notes that James Joyner and yours truly seem to be the only right-of-center bloggers who “come anywhere near my […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  41. Davebo says:

    So McGuire, was Pat Tillman who enlisted in 2002 after the WTC attack also unpatriotic?

    Keep in mind, standard enlistments are for six years of either all active or combined active, reserve, or inactive reserve.

    Add to that the fact that our stop loss program can keep them active beyond their six year commitment and your entire premise is pretty weak.

    I mean seriously, do the math.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  42. Anderson says:

    Shorter McGuire: soldiers can’t quit like me, so they should just shut up.

    –It all depends on what kind of country you think this is, I guess.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  43. There is no truth in the news and no news in the t…

    It is interesting to note that Russian papers usually make light of the US’ War on Terror and at the same time criticize Putin for not paying enough attention to international terrorists….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  44. Pat Curley says:

    He was talking about really “phony” soldiers, like Jesse MacBeth, whom he goes on to mention (Media Mutters wisely ended their bit of quote-mining before that segment). The criticism is not of soldiers who speak out against the war, but of phony soldiers who speak out against the war, and the media which fawns over them uncritically until they are exposed.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  45. whippoorwill says:

    CALLER: No, but seriously, Rush, how long do we have to stay there?

    RUSH: As long as it takes.

    Or until you grow a boil on your butt that later turns out to be lost brain cells.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  46. […] in part to MemeOrandum: Talk Left; Think Progress; The Carpetbagger Report; Firedoglake; PoliBlog; Outside The Beltway (Right); Taylor Marsh; Thought Theater; Jules Crittendon (Right); The Van Der Galiën Gazette; […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  47. When you wish upon a star: DUCK!…

    Could this be the real cause of global warming?

    Watch it all the way through…

     

     Trackposted to Outside the Beltway, Stop the ACLU, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, Right Truth, Big Dog’s Weblog, Stix Blog…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  48. Wayne says:

    I have listen to Rush many times when callers claimed something they were not. Rush often trips them up. I ran across many who claim they served and found out they were full of B.S.

    Then there the matter of what one considers a real soldier to be. Some consider it as anyone who wears a military uniform or anyone who signs up for the military. Some consider only those serving in the Army as Soldiers. Others considered only those serving in military with a certain attitude as soldiers.

    For example, we had people in my unit who sign up and were assign to an infantry unit. However they were whiners, couldn’t handle the hardships of the field, and were pretty worthless in the field. They were generally place in a support slot out of way of what “we” considered real infantry soldiers.

    We respect almost everyone that puts on the uniform. However there is difference between someone who just puts on a uniform and a soldier.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  49. […] to Outside the Beltway, Stop the ACLU, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, AZAMATTEROFACT, 123beta, […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  50. Stix Blog says:

    The AFLAC Scam …

    Be on the lookout for these suspects. They are wanted by the FBI Also it is Open Trackback Weekend. via emailWatch out for this scam. Police say that the gang usually is comprised of four members, one adult and three…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  51. Bithead says:

    To get angry about Rush’s comment, you have to ignore the idea that a loudest of the spokespeople for the supposed soldiers who think we should pull out of Iraq is Jesse MacBeth,and Micah Wright… or that little twerp TNR published…. what’s his name, again?

    And guess what? Rush himself confirms that’s exactly what he’s talking about, after the caller gets potted down…. From the transcript:

    Here is a Morning Update that we did recently, talking about fake soldiers. This is a story of who the left props up as heroes. They have their celebrities and one of them was Army Ranger Jesse Macbeth. Now, he was a “corporal.” I say in quotes. Twenty-three years old. What made Jesse Macbeth a hero to the anti-war crowd wasn’t his Purple Heart; it wasn’t his being affiliated with post-traumatic stress disorder from tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. No. What made Jesse Macbeth, Army Ranger, a hero to the left was his courage, in their view, off the battlefield, without regard to consequences. He told the world the abuses he had witnessed in Iraq, American soldiers killing unarmed civilians, hundreds of men, women, even children. In one gruesome account, translated into Arabic and spread widely across the Internet, Army Ranger Jesse Macbeth describes the horrors this way: “We would burn their bodies. We would hang their bodies from the rafters in the mosque.”

    Now, recently, Jesse Macbeth, poster boy for the anti-war left, had his day in court. And you know what? He was sentenced to five months in jail and three years probation for falsifying a Department of Veterans Affairs claim and his Army discharge record. He was in the Army. Jesse Macbeth was in the Army, folks, briefly. Forty-four days before he washed out of boot camp. Jesse Macbeth isn’t an Army Ranger, never was. He isn’t a corporal, never was. He never won the Purple Heart, and he was never in combat to witness the horrors he claimed to have seen. You probably haven’t even heard about this. And, if you have, you haven’t heard much about it. This doesn’t fit the narrative and the template in the Drive-By Media and the Democrat Party as to who is a genuine war hero. Don’t look for any retractions, by the way. Not from the anti-war left, the anti-military Drive-By Media, or the Arabic websites that spread Jesse Macbeth’s lies about our troops, because the truth for the left is fiction that serves their purpose. They have to lie about such atrocities because they can’t find any that fit the template of the way they see the US military. In other words, for the American anti-war left, the greatest inconvenience they face is the truth.

    Funny thing is Media Matters, and the rest of the usual suspects never bothered to mention this. Why didn’t they? Because if they had this conversation, this controversy, this leftist screaming festival wouldn’t be taking place.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  52. not the senator says:

    Did you see that Rush phonied up the version of the event when he put up his defense? In fact, the clip he aired omitted a full 1 minute and 35 seconds of discussion that occurred between Limbaugh’s original “phony soldiers” comment and his subsequent reference to MacBeth.

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200709280009?f=h_latest

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  53. Teen Faces Punishment For Long Hair: ACLU called…

    Being a long hair kinda guy, this is irritating.  Since when do schools have the right to require boys to have short hair?  So they make girls style their’s a certain way too?  This is ridiculous.

    Teen Faces Punishment For Long…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  54. […] to Outside the Beltway, Stop the ACLU, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, Right Truth, Stix Blog, […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  55. I Guess Dingell Didn’t Mean It…

    About 2 1/2 years ago, Nancy Pelosi and John Dingell sent a letter to the President that read as follows. April 20, 2005 The President The White House Washington, D.C. 20500 Dear Mr. President: As you know, gasoline prices have……

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  56. Of Course, The Percentage Is Down…

    But even as the percentage of the federal spending sits at about half of what it was 50 years ago, some want to cut it even further. For Ben Cohen, the politically active half of Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream,……

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  57. Pelosi On Anti-Christian Poster For S-M Fest…

    You would think she would comment — after all, the event is taking place in her district. Instead, she chose to avoid answering the question. CNSNews.com:”I’d like to get local for a second and talk about what’s going on in……

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  58. Uncle Pinky says:

    So then,”not the senator”, it took 1min.35sec to find, cue and broadcast the point that he had previously made? Yeeowch. You’ve made a huge point. Instead of recycling points he made earlier, he went through his archives to find the one he was referring to. Shame. Disgrace. Tsk-tsk.

    Do you honestly believe that this was an attack, or are you just being contentious? Honestly. With the MacBeth verdict in the news, the reference to “real” soldiers, and that he had spoken on “phony” soldiers so recently that he could play the clip in a minute and a half, you really feel that Media Matters was playing with a straight bat? I have said before that I hold no brief for Limbaugh, but you are forcing me to defend the man.

    Show a little more intellectual integrity than that. Don’t play silly-buggers simply because MoveOn got caught out.

    If you are not a senator, you ought to be better than that.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  59. […] to Outside the Beltway, Stop the ACLU, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, Right Truth, Stix Blog, […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  60. Rush Limbaugh Exposes Media Matters Phony Soldiers Lie…

    Rush Limbaugh releases his monologue from Friday’s Show (9/28/07) exposing Media Matters lie about his “Phony Soldiers” quote.
     

    This is a Weekend OTB & Linkfest for September 28-30, 2007.
     

    Trackback UR…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  61. Rush’s Big Mouth, Medved’s Slavery Column, & San Fran Crazies…

    THREE MORALITY PLAYSIGNORE SAN FRAN?Is it possible we are taking the wrong tactic when dealing with the unruly ……

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  62. […] –Center Right blogger James Joyner’s extensive MUST READ POST echoes some of what we have said here many times about Limbaugh. Some of it: To Limbaugh — at least Limbaugh the radio persona — if you disagree with his views, you’re not a Republican. If you say you’re a huge fan of his show but you disagree with him on this one issue, you’re a Democratic plant sent in with talking points, posing as a loyal listener to get past the call screener. If you claim to be a veteran or currently in the military and differ with him on military issues, you’re not really a soldier. Similarly, anonymous soldiers quoted in the press criticizing the war are fictitious. Liberal journalists fabricate them to spice up their stories. […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  63. Billy says:

    What’s constantly lost in these trivial debates over meaningless minutiae is the axiom that “those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.” Both the right (with its pathetically faux-indignation over the MoveOn ad) and the left (with efforts now to “condemn” Rush apparently moving through Congress) make a mockery of the discourse of what are serious issues. By responding in kind, as many of the posters here do, and impugning the methods of the other side while seeking to distinguish those of their own as being somehow better, both sides play into this travesty of echo-chamber “discourse.” Rather than engage in this type of masturbatory pseudo-intellectualism, both sides should take a step back, realize that 95% of the country doesn’t give a f*ck about any of it, and try to get to talking about things that matter, like, say, the fact that we are fighting, rightly or wrongly, halfway around the world.

    To say that Media Matters is somehow “worse” than anyone who got the vapors over the MoveOn ad is the height of disingenuity. Certainly Rush was (slightly) less ham-handed than was MoveOn (mostly by not targeting a subject as compelling and defensable as Petraeus), but this does not evidence any greater malfeasance on the part of his enemies. Gotcha politics has given rise to an industry of interns poring over the rhetoric of the other side, seeking the slightest chink in their armor or opportunistically latching on to a perceived gaffe. This is what happened with regard to MoveOn, and Media Matters is responding in kind. The sum total of all the efforts of all involved is to make a mockery of the process, and highlights why this country is going into the crapper.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  64. Right Truth says:

    No Jews in State Department program, no Jewish bullets in Iraq, Afghanistan…

    IDIOTS!!! “Israeli-made bullets bought by the U.S. Army to plug a shortfall should be used for training only, not to fight Muslim guerrillas in Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. lawmakers told Army generals on Thursday.” via Useful Fools: Since the Army…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  65. Uncle Pinky says:

    Billy, I’m getting up and waiting for my coffee to brew (it being Caturday and all), but even without coffee I note a minor problem in your comment.

    Limbaugh was responding to a caller. MoveOn was acting in a pre-emptively douche-like manner. Both should have been ignored.

    This is what happened with regard to MoveOn, and Media Matters is responding in kind.

    MediaMatters was, and is, lying by omission. In their attempt to respond in kind, they are being dishonest. MoveOn acted in a supremely boneheaded way, and hay was made of it by their opponents (and their ad revenue department). Dumb on all of them, y’ask me, but not a reason to intentionally be stupid. How is this going to play on the broadcast news? Every time Limbaugh is mentioned the Petraeus ad will be mentioned as well. Limbaugh, at least, has a rebuttal in place and didn’t get a discount or type-set his remarks.

    Gotcha politics has given rise to an industry of interns poring over the rhetoric of the other side, seeking the slightest chink in their armor or opportunistically latching on to a perceived gaffe

    Yep. Kind of juvenile, but not really new. Still to be regretted, but fairly normal. The tools have changed, the “gotcha” has become easier to document (Tavis Smiley and the “I did not call Bush a serial killer… oh you have the tape?…well, I don’t remember saying that” sort of thing will be more noticeable), so there is no reason to invent controversy.

    P.S. Thanks for using “poring” correctly. Peeve of mine when folks add that “u”, but what can you do?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  66. Liberals and Conservatives in the News…

    …the audience must rely on their own judgment in checking news.

    ……

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  67. whippoorwill says:

    Limbaugh was responding to a caller. MoveOn was acting in a pre-emptively douche-like manner. Both should have been ignored.

    Whether or not you approve of the “Betray-us”? title of their article, MoveOn had a point to make and they backed it up with their version of evidence. They knew the title would be controversial and welcomed it for the attention it would bring to their argument, which was, if your gonna let one man decide whether to continue what 70 percent of the American people consider a failed war then here’s a little more information you might also consider. And the pre-emption was done by the Bush administration’s non-stop declarations that Petraeus would be the “decider” on the success of the surge and future course in Iraq.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  68. Billy says:

    MediaMatters was, and is, lying by omission. In their attempt to respond in kind, they are being dishonest.

    I respectfully disagree that this is any different from the mock outrage from a chorus of the most vicious and hypocritical pundits and politicians on the right at the MoveOn ad. Interpretations of the ad itself were stretched to the limit of lexical propriety in order to produce the most disrespectful and overblown interpretation (i.e., that drawing into question Petraeus’s full candor is equivalent to calling all military personnel traitors). The difference is largely that Democrats had both the wisdom to refrain from defending the attack, and the spinelessness required to allow the debate to be framed by their opponents, both qualities that the Republicans lack (to their detriment and credit).

    This:

    Limbaugh, at least, has a rebuttal in place…

    …is evidence that Limbaugh is an experienced pundit, and that MoveOn dropped the ball on the tactics side, nothing more, while this:

    and didn’t get a discount or type-set his remarks.

    …is one of the mock-outrage talking points I’m referring to, and is entirely irrelevant to anything remotely resembling a substantive issue of politics, let alone policy.

    If we want to debate media tactics, thats fine and dandy, but we need to realize that that’s the end point for the relevance of this debate. This kind of discussion neither reflects nor has any bearing upon the substance or character of the people pushing policy issues, and does not occupy the same plane of existence that a discussion of the merits of those policies should. This is precisely what is consistently lost when the (largely right wing, though the lefties have been pursuing their own version) noise machine gets cranked to full volume.

    … the “gotcha” has become easier to document … so there is no reason to invent controversy.

    In theory this is true, but the very idea of gotcha leads to the willful misinterpretation of what should be otherwise considered bad puns (MoveOn) or boneheaded assessments that dissent does not exist (Rush). I would have us refrain from loudly attributing nefarious motives to our fellow citizens in feigned outrage based on one construction of poorly chosen verbiage that relies on nonexistent hypersensitivity to put our policy opponents in a bad light personally. The reality is that people, leaving their methods aside, are generally arguing in good faith for their position, whether we agree with it or not.

    P.S. Thanks for using “poring” correctly. Peeve of mine when folks add that “u”, but what can you do?

    Thanks – I’m not above the occasional misspelling or misuse by any means, but I agree, and there’s not much you can do but lead by example.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  69. Michael says:

    It’s ok, Rush has clarified that when he says “phoney soldiers” he is actually talking about people who enver served, like Sen. Jack Murtha. So he’s all about respecting the troops, really, he is. I mean he said so, it must be true, right?

    I was talking about a genuine phony soldier. And by the way, Jesse MacBeth’s not the only one. How about this guy Scott Thomas who was writing fraudulent, phony things in The New Republic about atrocities he saw that never happened? How about Jack Murtha blanketly accepting the notion that Marines at Haditha engaged in wanton murder of innocent children and civilians?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  70. Cao's Blog says:

    A truther quits…

    Confessions of an Ex Truther – brought to my attention by William Teach at Pirate’s Cove
    I was a true believer of all this controlled demolition nonsense for a time. I never cared about the physics or the claims of pseudo-”experts.” W…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  71. Message To MoveOn.Org…

    Earlier this past week, the LA Times reported that MoveOn.org, the uber-leftist prevaricators who put the infamous “General Betray Us” ad in the NY Times (for a discounted price), had sicced its lawyers on Cafe Press, due to some using its service …

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  72. The Partitioning Solution…

    Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki is upset with a U.S. Senate proposal to partition Iraq along ethnic lines. I can understand his reasons, since the last attempt to split up the United States resulted in a very bloody war. There’s also the unstable…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  73. […] to Outside the Beltway, Stop the ACLU, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, Stix Blog, Big Dog’s […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  74. Bithead says:

    Yes, what of them, Michael?
    Or do you propose to ignore them, so it’s easier to settle in your mind, that wasn’t what he was talking about?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  75. […] to Outside the Beltway, Stop the ACLU, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, Stix Blog, Big Dog’s […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  76. Michael says:

    Yes, what of them, Michael?
    Or do you propose to ignore them, so it’s easier to settle in your mind, that wasn’t what he was talking about?

    Um, Rush said that Sen. Murtha was one of the ones he was calling a “phoney soldier”, so he (not me) is saying that actual people who were actually in the military and saw actual combat can still be “phoney soldiers” in his opinion. I’m not the one ignoring things.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  77. […] activate every tag I have ever used to associate it with this post. Heh. +++++++ Trackposted to Outside the Beltway, Stop the ACLU, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, Right Truth, Stix Blog, […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  78. Right Truth says:

    Right Truth Book Club now reading The Opaque Murders…

    The Right Truth Book Club is now reading The Opaque Murders by R. J. Godlewski. This book is different for the Book Club as it has nothing to do with terrorism. However, readers of Right Truth will have some very…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  79. […] to Outside the Beltway, Stop the ACLU, Perri Nelson’s Website, Rosemary’s Thoughts, Right Truth, Stix Blog, Big […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  80. San Francisco’s Anti Military Disease Spreads to Oakland…

    I saw this at Michelle Malkin.  The Daily Kos dismissed the reports as fakery, but ths sotyr is confirmed.

    Here is the initial report from OC Blog:

    Marines and Soldiers Returning from Iraq not allowed into Oakland t…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  81. Right Truth says:

    Right Truth Book Club is now reading The Opaque Murders…

    The Right Truth Book Club is now reading The Opaque Murders by RJ Godlewski. This book is a little different for the Book Club. However, readers of Right Truth will have some very pleasant surprises in the book just for…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  82. Bruce Moomaw says:

    Joyner: “Still, it’s not the same as what he’s being accused of here, though: Saying that soldiers who want to leave Iraq are therefore ‘phony soldiers.’ ”

    Beg pardon? Let’s look at that exchange between Limbaugh and his caller again, shall we?

    “CALLER: And what’s really funny is they never talk to real soldiers. They pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.

    “RUSH: The phony soldiers.

    “CALLER: Phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they’re proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they’re willing to sacrifice for the country.

    “RUSH: They joined to be in Iraq.’
    _____________

    That is, Limbaugh’s halfwitted caller said with a straight face that “any real soldier…wants to be over in Iraq”, and Limbaugh agreed with him. It was only some minutes later — presumably after Limbaugh had either actually started receiving complaints, or had started thinking abut the likelihood that he would do so — that he changed his tune about what he’d said. Since then, of course, he’s completely reversed himself again and gone back to his original stance, by saying that Jack Murtha isn’t “a real soldier” because he opposes the Iraq War. And so it goes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  83. Wayne says:

    Bruce
    You ignore the part “They pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media”.

    As stated many times before, many of these so call soldiers the MSM pull out of the blue are phonies. They either never served are greatly exaggerated there service record.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  84. Grewgills says:

    As stated many times before, many of these so call soldiers the MSM pull out of the blue are phonies. They either never served are greatly exaggerated there service record.

    Can you name more than the two that were found out and discredited before the general public ever heard about them?
    Their is a large and growing group of active duty and veterans who are coming out against the war. The couple of frauds only became high profile because of the highly public exposure of their fraud. This couple fake veterans make up a tiny percentage of the high profile veterans or active duty who have come out against the war.
    Rush knows this though he pretends not to and you should know this as well.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  85. RAP says:

    I have no love for Rush Limbaugh, but I know bullshit when I hear it; and claims against Rush in this case are total BS. He was clearly referring to the guy (and people like him) who claim to have served in Iraq, but really haven’t. He is a PHONY soldier, and calling him one is more than appropriate. Naturally, Reid is trying to spin it, but anyone who is not already a dedicated lefty will see right through this dispicable diversionary tactic to take the heat off of them for not denouncing the moveon.org ad.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  86. Wayne says:

    Grewgills
    “Can you name more than the two that were found out and discredited before the general public ever heard about them?”

    I am not sure what you are asking here. I do know more then two have been discredited. Also I have run across plenty of the phonies at bars that have been discredited that were not known to general public.

    Frank “Greg” Ford, Scott Thomas, Jesse MacBeth then there the stories of the Bradley incident that was shown to be made up plus going back to the Vietnam days you can find many phony and mad up stories as well. Here are some links to some of those.

    http://sec-global.com/services/ctp/vsg/news/041218.html

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/08/its_not_just_scott_beauchamp.html

    http://slashdot.org/articles/05/05/10/1827221.shtml?tid=149&tid=1

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  87. Grewgills says:

    Jesse Macbeth is best known for being found out. Prior to that virtually no one had heard of him.

    Ford was in the guard and did serve in Iraq. His stories are another matter.

    Scott Thomas Beauchamp is (perhaps now was) a US soldier in the 4th Brigade, 1st Infantry Division. His statements are controversial and the military and his fellow soldiers deny them. He is best known for the controversy about whether or not he was actually a soldier serving in Iraq (he was) and the veracity of his story (their is some doubt).

    You said that “many of these so call soldiers the MSM pull out of the blue are phonies.”
    You have come up with three people, two of which actually served in Iraq, and none of them were mentioned by the MSM until the controversies surrounding their stories erupted in the blogs.
    There are seven undeniable and unimpeachable soldiers in just the one NYT op-ed. There are plenty more in Vote Vets and IVAW along with a growing list of retired military brass. The idea that all, most, or even a substantial minority (say over 5%) of the soldiers that have come out against this war are phony is absurd.

    Limbaugh’s earlier comments and the comments of his caller clearly were about more than one “phony soldier.” The later reference to Macbeth was meant to bolster his earlier argument that soldiers coming out against the war were phony.

    Vietnam is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

    Your last link dealt with Michelle Delio, a tech reporter for wired. I think you probably intended that link to go somewhere else.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  88. Wayne says:

    You ask for discredited ones. An ordinance supply clerk who claims to be a Navy Seal may be a soldier but he is also a phony.

    No one on the right has ever claim that there is no one that has served who isn’t against the war. They are however a small minority.

    It amazing that you would deny that there are people out there that claims to be soldiers when they are not. Some even make into the press. When phonies are discovered, usually the press buries it on page 15 if they write anything about it at all.

    I tried to look up an example that happen here a few years ago but didn’t find it which is not abnormal in this area. Sometime it is hard to find last week football score around here.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  89. Grewgills says:

    No one on the right has ever claim that there is no one that has served who isn’t against the war

    You did however claim “many of these so call soldiers the MSM pull out of the blue are phonies.”
    You have yet to provide a single example of a phony soldier that was pulled out by the MSM.

    They are however a small minority.

    Here you are wrong. The most recent Zogby poll shows that “72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately.”

    It amazing that you would deny that there are people out there that claims to be soldiers when they are not. Some even make into the press.

    No, what I denied was that there are a substantial number of people claiming to be soldiers that are reported in the MSM. Indeed I have yet to see a single example of a “phony soldier” speaking out against the war in the MSM, other than the MSM reporting on the controversy after they have been discredited.
    There have only been 3 high profile cases of this that I am aware of on blogs. There is absolutely no evidence of the exaggeration of service record being primarily among those who either support or oppose the occupation of Iraq.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  90. Ben Franklin says:

    What happened to the constitution that protects free speech and prohibits congress from taking action against private citizens.

    Did anyone notice the senate resolution regarding Petraeus did not mention moveon.org nor did it take any action.

    The Senate wrote a letter (taking action) naming a private citizen by name (Rush Limbaugh). They wrote his employer and they wrote some of his sponsors.

    What no one seems to have a problem with this.

    http://www.standwithrush.com and stand with the constitution.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  91. Michael says:

    Did anyone notice the senate resolution regarding Petraeus did not mention moveon.org nor did it take any action.

    I believe that was already covered by a previous and similar Republican sponsored resolution. Or do you just think that the Senate should rebuke moveon.org in every resolution, perhaps in all new laws and spending bills too? Maybe they should open each session with a prayer and rebuking moveon.org. Surely a national monument rebuking moveon.org is within reason.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  92. Steve says:

    I really don’t understand why the democrats waste our hard earned tax payers money on comments that a radio talk show host makes. He’s poses no threat to the Democrats, and he’s not even running for any kind of office. To me it shows the continuing insecurity of the democrats and their constant diversions off of themselves. It also shows that the democrats want full control of the air waves which when I last checked is the same thing the governments in dictator led countries do. Control the media. I really think both parties should focus on their own representatives and quit picking on each other.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  93. Michael says:

    I really don’t understand why the democrats waste our hard earned tax payers money on comments that a radio talk show host makes. He’s poses no threat to the Democrats, and he’s not even running for any kind of office.

    It’s called irony.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  94. L.Waller says:

    How or WHY this fat blow hard can make a living expounding dribble and nonsense is a mystery too me. I’m a former “Reagan Era” marine and believe that we ALL have the right to our opinions.

    It doesn’t take a genius to see this war was ill-concieved in every respect. Poor stratedgy, half cocked, trumped up and ALL without a plan OCCUPY or administer to the populace. NO exit stratedgy for god sakes! BUSH-league all the way.

    Rush hasn’t got a clue and wouldn’t recognize leadership, military or otherwise if it bit his fat ass. So… shut up when it comes to the military my friend “you know NOT of what you speak”. Ever hump a pack or drag your fat ass 30 miles on a forced march? I didn’t think so.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  95. G.A.phillips says:

    How or WHY this fat blow hard can make a living expounding dribble and nonsense is a mystery too me. I’m a former “Reagan Era” marine and believe that we ALL have the right to our opinions.

    have you ever tuned into the show?

    It doesn’t take a genius to see this war was ill-concieved in every respect. Poor stratedgy, half cocked, trumped up and ALL without a plan OCCUPY or administer to the populace. NO exit stratedgy for god sakes! BUSH-league all the way.

    Yes it does, a libreal one.

    but I sure don’t think it take a genius to repeat liberal talking points or believe them.

    Rush hasn’t got a clue and wouldn’t recognize leadership, military or otherwise if it bit his fat ass. So… shut up when it comes to the military my friend “you know NOT of what you speak”. Ever hump a pack or drag your fat ass 30 miles on a forced march? I didn’t think so.

    He has has more of a clue then you seem to about honoring your pledge to alow every one express their own opinion, oops I’m soory you said the the right to, meaning we can have one but if we don’t share your’s we should keep it to ourselves, forgive me, I got you now.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  96. L.Waller says:

    I’d be happy to concede to a good point if you’d care to make one. Merely stating that I’m repeating a liberal point of view doesn’t count OR cut the mustard. The point that a soldier is a “phoney soldier” because they don’t support the cause/war presently at issue demonstrates the narrow and ignorant mindset of the author. You my ‘friend’ didn’t address the issue and failed to counter my points, rather, labled me a “liberal” which I’m not. Have you yourself ever served? do you have any notion as to war time policy? Guerilla warfare verses conventional or otherwise? Because you could certainly make the point that we have failed to influence or change the “TRIBAL” dynamic of this conflict between Sunni and Shiite. Wouldn’t you agree? Now… I did call Rush a “Fat Ass”, a term used often in military circles along with “non-hacker” just as he referred to that army VETERAN as a “PHONEY”. Under the circumstances I believe I’ll count Rush’s new nickname as deserved and EARNED. Now TRY to make a good point if you can.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  97. Mr.Marbles says:

    What do armies do?

    They fight wars.

    If you are a soldier you can expect to fight wars.

    If you enlist (volunteer to serve) you are a soldier. What can soldiers expect to do? Yep…fight wars.

    If you don’t want to be drunk…don’t consume alcohol. If you don’t want to fight wars…don’t be a soldier.

    If you enlisted, be a real soldier…Suck it up and drive on. The mission comes first; to think otherwise makes you a phony soldier.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0