• Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Subscribe
  • RSS

Six Killed, Dozens Injured, In Late Night Terror Attack In London

London Attack June 2017

At least six people were killed late last night in a terror attack near London Bridge that began with a van running into a crowd of people:

LONDON — Another night of terrorism unfolded in Britain on Saturday with two attacks that killed six civilians in the center of the capital, London police said.

At least one of the dead was killed when a van careered onto the sidewalk along London Bridge, mowing down pedestrians.

The London Ambulance Service said it had brought 48 injured to five hospitals.

The police said they killed three attackers, which they believed to be the total number of assailants.

Witnesses reported that at least one man jumped out of the van wielding a large knife and ran into the nearby Borough Market, a popular spot for pubs and restaurants on the southern side of the Thames.

Heavily armed police responded to the bridge attack, which took place just after 10 p.m., and more officers rushed to investigate reports of stabbings at the market. The police shot and killed three attackers there, within eight minutes of receiving the first emergency call, they said.

Though no one has claimed responsibility for the attacks, they hit a nation still reeling from the shock of the bombing in Manchester almost two weeks ago when a suicide bomber blew himself up outside the doors of an Ariana Grande concert. Twenty-two people were killed, including many children.

Saturday’s attack was reminiscent of another on Westminster Bridge on March 22, when Khalid Masood, 52, drove a car into pedestrians, killing four people. He then stabbed a police officer to death before being shot and killed near Parliament. The police treated that attack, in which 50 were injured, as “Islamist-related terrorism.”

And now, as Britain prepares for national elections in less than a week, it must cope with more attacks in the most ordinary of places, London Bridge on a Saturday night, as people walked about enjoying the spring evening.

The mood in London was shock and anger, with the center of the city saturated all night with the sound of sirens. People were told to run, or hide and silence their cellphones as the police searched for assailants.

There was panic that a third stabbing in the Vauxhall area at about the same time as the assaults near the bridge might have been part of a coordinated attack, but the police later declared that incident unrelated.

The attacks came a few days before a snap election that has major implications for the country’s future outside the European Union. Across London, and Britain, there was a sense of fear that a way of life was under attack, but also a determination to carry on.

The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, called it a “deliberate and cowardly attack on innocent Londoners,” and it was also condemned by the leader of the main opposition party, Jeremy Corbyn.

The office of Theresa May, the prime minister, announced that she will chair a meeting of the government emergency response committee, known as Cobra, on Sunday.

A White House spokesman said President Trump was briefed by his national security aides on the unfolding events in London.

He spoke with Mrs. May, offering his condolences for the attacks and praising the response of the police, White House officials said. He offered the full support of the United States government in investigating the attacks.

No motive has been ascribed to the attackers, but on the messaging app Telegram, members and supporters of the Islamic State shared a poster that calls for supporters to attack people with guns, knives and trucks during the month of Ramadan, which began last weekend.

On Saturday night ambulances rushed to the scene, people fled in panic, restaurants and hotels were evacuated, and helicopters flew overhead.

Witnesses described horrible scenes.

Holly Jones, a BBC reporter who was on the bridge when the van crashed, said it was driven by a man and was “probably traveling at about 50 miles an hour.” She said that at least five people were being treated for injuries after the vehicle drove on the sidewalk and hit them.

“He swerved right round me and then hit about five or six people,” Ms. Jones said. “He hit about two people in front of me and then three behind.”

A witness, who identified himself as Andrew, said he was in the area at a bar, heard “a massive bang” and saw a van hitting the rail of the road.

“Next 10 seconds later, there was a guy with a big knife, I mean, a big knife,” he told LBC Radio.

Andrew said he jumped over a fence, got to a footpath and there was “a dead guy lying on the floor.” He hid for a few seconds in bushes nearby, then, he said, “I ran for my life.”

At the market, Ben, who did not give his last name, told the BBC that he and his wife, Natalie, saw someone being stabbed.

“I saw a man in red with quite a large blade — I don’t know the measurement, I guess maybe 10 inches,” Ben said. “He was stabbing a man. He stabbed him about three times fairly calmly.”

Ben added, “He was being stabbed quite coldly and he slumped to the ground.”

He then said someone threw a table and a bottle at the man with the knife, but “then we heard three gunshots and we ran.”

A man named Gerard told the BBC that he saw men stabbing everyone they could and shouting “this is for Allah.”

He saw three men with knives “and they stabbed a girl,” he said. “So I follow them, toward Borough Market, they were running into the pubs and bars and stabbing everyone. They were running up, saying this is for Allah, and they run up and stabbed this girl 10, maybe 15 times.”

British Prime Minister Theresa May spoke this morning in the wake of the attack:

LONDON — Declaring “enough is enough,” Prime Minister Theresa May vowed on Sunday a sweeping review of Britain’s counterterrorism strategy after three knife-wielding assailants unleashed an assault late Saturday night, the third major terrorist attack in the country in three months.

Seven people were killed and dozens more injured as the men sped across London Bridge in a white van, ramming numerous pedestrians, before emerging with large hunting knives for a stabbing spree in the capital’s Borough Market, a popular and crowded night spot.

The assault came days before national elections this week and after the British government had downgraded the threat level to “severe” from “critical,” meaning that an attack was highly likely, but not imminent.

On Sunday morning, Mrs. May’s Conservative Party and the opposition Labour Party both announced they were suspending campaigning for parliamentary elections — less than a full day in the case of Labour — as a mark of respect to the victims. However the right-wing, populist, U.K. Independence Party said it would continue with its scheduled campaign events.

But Mrs. May said the election would go ahead on Thursday as planned.

The prime minister broke campaigning to lead an emergency meeting of her security cabinet on Sunday morning. In a statement after the session, she said the government would ramp up its counterterrorism efforts to deal with Islamist radicalism at home and to try to reduce or eliminate “the safe spaces it needs to breed,” both on the internet and in British communities, in which she said radical recruiters work.

“Everybody needs to go about their lives as they normally would,” she said. “Our society should continue to function in accordance with our values. But when it comes to taking on extremism and terrorism, things need to change.”

The government may extend the time of custodial sentences for terrorism suspects, but more needed to be done in binding communities together to combat what Mrs. May called “a perversion of Islam,” adding: “There is, to be frank, far too much tolerance of extremism in our country.”

She called for a global effort to “regulate cyberspace,” something that is likely to prove difficult, and said that the London attack was not connected to a suicide bombing at a pop concert in Manchester, England, last month that killed 22 people.

Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader, issued his own strong condemnation of the attacks and suspended campaigning for the day. “We are all shocked and horrified by the brutal attacks in London,” he said in a statement. “My thoughts are with the families and friends of those who have died and the many who have been injured. Today, we will all grieve for their loss.”

(…)

Mayor Sadiq Khan of London, meanwhile, said the police had been dispersed across the city, as security would remain heightened throughout the week.

Mr. Khan, who described the assault as a “deliberate and cowardly attack on innocent Londoners,” said that some of the injured were in critical condition, raising the possibility that the death toll could rise. “We will never let these cowards win and we will never be cowed by terrorism,” he said.

The Muslim Council of Britain also condemned the attack and praised the emergency services.

“Muslims everywhere are outraged and disgusted at these cowards who once again have destroyed the lives of our fellow Britons,” said the council’s secretary-general, Harun Khan. “That this should happen in this month of Ramadan, when many Muslims were praying and fasting only goes to show that these people respect neither life nor faith.

So far, none of the attackers has been identified by police, but it has been reported that up to twelve people had been taken into custody overnight in connection with the investigation into the attacks. The attacks also come less than two weeks after the bombing at an arena in Manchester during a concert by pop singer Ariana Grande, and just one day prior to a charity concert in the same city that will feature a number of popular singers such as Katy Perry and Grande herself. Apparently, that concert will go forward as planned notwithstanding last night’s attack, as will the General Election scheduled for this coming Thursday, June 8th, although at least two of the major parties have decided to suspend campaigning for at least a brief period of time today out of respect for the victims. The attack also comes about three months after a similar attack in Westminster in which a man drove a car into a crowd near the site of the House of Commons, killing three people and injuring nearly two dozen more. Right now, it doesn’t appear that there are any connections between these three attacks, but that likely does little to calm the situation among Britons in the wake of these attacks and the implications of more to come. Indeed, it’s worth noting that, during her comments this morning, Prime Minister May said that authorities had been able to stop five attacks that were in various stages of planning across the country, although there have not been any details released about those arrests.

The attack also comes just a few days prior to the snap election that Prime Minister May called earlier this year, and it’s unclear what impact this attack, and other others, might have on those elections. When the race began, it looked as though May’s Conservative Party was poised for a massive, possibly historic, victory, that would solidify May’s majority in the House of Commons as the nation heads into the negotiations over withdrawal from the European Union. In recent weeks, though, the polls have tightened to the point where such an outcome appears to be far less likely. There’s little suggestion from these polls that the Conservatives will be voted out of power, especially since the polling seems to indicate at least in part that the uptick in support for Labour won’t translate into enough seats in the House of Commons to make that much of a difference in the balance of power. This is especially true since it appears unlikely that Labour will be able to reverse the massive losses it suffered two years ago in Scotland at the hands of the Scottish National Party. Without gains in that party of the country, it’s unlikely that any Labour gains in England itself would be sufficient to give it control of Parliament. It’s worth noting, of course, that polling in advance of the last General Election in 2015 failed to pick up on what turned into a big Tory win, so it’s possible that these same polls could be missing something yet again. Additionally, given the amount of time left in the campaign, it’s unlikely that the polls will be able to fully gauge the impact of this latest terror attack on the populace.

As was the case with the Manchester and Westminster attacks, there’s little more that can be said about the attack last night without further information. One thing that is clear, though, is that there appears to be a new pattern of less conventional attacks that seem as though they will be harder to detect in advance, and therefore harder to prevent. While the Manchester attack was a typical suicide bomb attack, the two attacks in London have followed in the example of the attack we saw last summer in Nice, France when a truck rammed into a crowd of residents and tourists celebrating Bastille Day, killing 87 people and injuring more than 400. In the case of both the Nice attack and the Westminster attack in March, there was apparently no indication that the perpetrator posted any real risk of being a terrorist. More importantly, these attacks were carried out by so-called lone wolves who planned and carried out the attacks on their own. Last night’s attack seems to be slightly different in that there were three people involved, but it still seems clear that this was not a ‘professional’ attack if only because it involved the same sort of car-ramming and was followed by knife-wielding assailants rather than people carrying guns or using bombs as in the case of the coordinated attack in Paris in November 2015. These attacks seem to be harder to anticipate and prevent, easier to carry out, and more likely to occur on a random rather than a pre-planned basis that might be picked up with surveillance. That doesn’t bode well for the future.

Related Posts:

About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway. Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. CSK says:

    I’m trying to take some consolation from the fact that they were able to thwart five attacks.

    But it’s hard.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  2. MBunge says:

    That five more attacks reference is terrifying because it would seem to indicate some greater level of planning and organization or that this “lone wolf” stuff is spreading like a virus. The only consolation is the thought those plans may have been thwarted with the help of folks within the British Arab/Muslim community.

    Mike

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  3. CSK says:

    Apparently the five attacks that were foiled were planned and in preparation after the Westminster attack this past March 22.

    That’s roughly one bloodbath every 8-9 days.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  4. CSK says:

    @MBunge:

    Not lone wolves, exactly. The Manchester bomber had colleagues, and so did the three jackals last night, who were in any case operating as a trio.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  5. Pch101 says:

    The pieces of crap who did this should be thrilled to know that the prime minister has connected them to a much broader movement that is at war with British values.

    That’s exactly what these guys want. They want to be part of something much larger, and Theresa May is giving it to them. We’re never going to learn.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  6. CSK says:

    According to the BBC, ISIS is in high celebration mode over this.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  7. CSK says:

    Trump’s making noises about visiting London later this week “to show solidarity” (translation: to avoid and distract from the Comey testimony).

    Personally, I think those poor people have suffered enough without having Mangolini plop his flabby derriere down in their midst demanding adulation.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  8. john430 says:

    @Pch101: They want to be part of something much larger, and Theresa May is giving it to them. We’re never going to learn.

    Undoubtedly, that remark is the dumbest thing you’ve ever posted. They were already part of something “bigger” because they’re de facto, being terrorists. They may not be officially affiliated with a specific terror organization but they emulate them to feel a sense of belonging. PM May didn’t give them the sense of belonging. FYI- they’ were already dead. Did they get a sense of being with the “in” crowd posthumously? There are times you make a cogent point and articulate it quite well. This instance however, is just plain DUMB, and no, you will never learn.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7

  9. Pch101 says:

    @john430:

    These guys play you like a cheap banjo. You’re all idiots.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

  10. michael reynolds says:

    The object of terrorism is terror. If you are terrified, you are helping the terrorists.

    Quick statistics:

    Number of murders in urban, multicultural London, population 9 million: 118

    Number of murders in largely rural, white, Republican highly religious Utah, population 3 million: 90.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  11. Gustopher says:

    Last night’s attack seems to be slightly different in that there were three people involved, but it still seems clear that this was not a ‘professional’ attack if only because it involved the same sort of car-ramming and was followed by knife-wielding assailants rather than people carrying guns or using bombs as in the case of the coordinated attack in Paris in November 2015. These attacks seem to be harder to anticipate and prevent, easier to carry out, and more likely to occur on a random rather than a pre-planned basis that might be picked up with surveillance. That doesn’t bode well for the future.

    The car attacks are also less deadly than guns and bombs. This is much less worse than the Manchester attack.

    Over all, that seems like a positive sign, as much as terrorist attacks can be positive. The government is doing a good enough job that the terrorists aren’t able to plan and execute larger attacks. Without creating a police state, you cannot completely eliminate determined terrorists. This *is* what success looks like.

    The War on Terrorism is like The War on Drugs — the end results can be mostly controlled, but there will be no victory through law enforcement only.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  12. Pch101 says:

    Since John8675309 claims to be a Catholic, he should be deported to Belfast. After all, he is part of the devil religion that spawned the IRA…right?

    While we’re at it, we should consider him to be a pedophile because of those kiddie diddler priests that lead his faith. (Collective guilt sure is a lot of fun.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

  13. teve tory says:

    @michael reynolds: IIRC, the UK murder rate is 75% lower than the US.

    Your chance of dying in the US from gun violence is 100-1000 times higher than from terrorism.

    Murka.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

  14. Mikey says:

    @michael reynolds:

    The object of terrorism is terror. If you are terrified, you are helping the terrorists.

    The object of terrorism is to use terror to achieve some political aim. In the case of ISIS, they want to eliminate the “gray zone,” the place where Muslims who live in Western countries exist. They want non-Muslims to turn against the Muslims in their communities, to alienate them, to leave them nowhere to go except into the “welcoming” arms of ISIS.

    Simply being terrified doesn’t help the terrorists achieve their aim, but reacting to terrorist attacks the way Trump and his supporters do quite definitely does. Trump’s “travel ban” and resistance to receiving refugees are two very significant contributors to the feelings of alienation that have spurred recent ISIS attacks.

    It’s not so much “if you’re terrified, you’re helping the terrorists” as it is “if you support Trump’s policies, you’re helping the terrorists.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  15. Jake says:

    Tommy is right

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ChjfFx_zLU

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

  16. john430 says:

    @Pch101: Aaah, the mask comes off and we see PCH101 to be both a racist and a bigot.
    Why do they even allow you to write with crayons at the hospital you’re in?
    Too violent for sharp things no doubt.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

  17. Pch101 says:

    @john430:

    Jesus, you’re dumb.

    I’m treating you the way that you treat Muslims: Judging you personally by the actions of a few members of your religion.

    Funny how you’re quick to blame all Muslims for terrorism, while you take zero responsibility for the actions of other Catholics. Sucks to be treated in the way that you treat others, doesn’t it?

    You’re a typical right-wing hypocrite with less self-awareness than a cockroach. You’re a Republican because it’s the party of stupid and you enjoy the company of your own kind.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  18. michael reynolds says:

    @Pch101:
    John doesn’t do ‘self-aware.’

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  19. Jake says:
  20. Mikey says:

    @Jake: You have no opinion that isn’t spoon-fed to you by some stupid right-wing website, do you?

    I think you’re a bot, actually. Nothing original to say, just links to idiocy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  21. Jake says:

    Your rabbit hole works well you live in a echo chamber.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  22. john430 says:

    @Pch101: Judging you personally by the actions of a few members of your religion.

    I’m judging you as retarded because of your IQ. Additionally, you always have your head up your arse. You must like the smell.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

  23. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @john430:

    Hey! It’s the defender of kiddie diddlers!

    Say five Hail Mary’s and get that pedophile moved to Wisconsin before he can be charged – asap!

    Short version? You’re in no position to preach about morality to ANYbody. Hypocrite.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  24. Pch101 says:

    The shameless hypocrisy of the right is something to behold.

    The IRA murdered about 1800 people in Northern Ireland. John8675309 is obviously responsible for this, because he has collective guilt for every Catholic pedophile and terrorist who ever walked the earth.

    Why should we cut him any slack for the sins of his people? If we’re going to hold the average Muslim to those standards, then what comes around goes around.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  25. Tyrell says:

    This is the effect: i now go through 10 – 30 minute lines to have my pockets and bags checked. When I am out at games, races, shopping, or the theme park I get calls from family and friends making sure I am safe and “nothing has happened”. (“I was just checking. We were worried”).
    Peoples’ mindsets and sense of security have been altered.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  26. Matt says:

    @Tyrell: Welcome to the modern age of communications where something happening in the back woods of the amazon can be monitored live by people around the globe.

    On average about 7,195 people die per day in the USA.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  27. john430 says:

    AAH, all the “compassionate liberals here. All goose-stepping to the “progressive” drumbeat. Just read the anti-religion, anti-American slop prevalent in the writings of certain regulars here and you see who the real fascist are. Pch101, HarvardLaw of the Ozarks, MichaelReynolds and Al-Alameda.

    In particular, Pch101 and HarvardLaws preoccupation with pedophilia. Makes one wonder if they’re repressing their own urges. Reynolds, on the other hand, wants to round up all the intellectuals and put them in “reeducation camps”.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  28. Pch101 says:

    @john430:

    It’s your church that has the preoccupation with pedophilia.

    Nice to see that you couldn’t care less that your church abuses children. John8675309 isn’t one to let society know that he opposes child abuse. (So much for the “not in my name” stuff.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  29. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @john430:

    :roll:

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  30. john430 says:

    @Pch101: Once again, you seem mesmerized by pedophilia.

    Are you one of those NAMBLA types? Get professional help.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  31. Pch101 says:

    @john430:

    John is completely happy to have pedophile priests who molest kids in his name.

    Why am I not surprised?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  32. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @john430:

    Nah, we’re disgusted by pedophilia – and by your defense / minimization of it.

    Why do you do that anyway? Professional courtesy?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  33. Pch101 says:

    John8675309 really, really, really hates being compared to Muslims.

    Of course, it should be the Muslims who are offended by the comparisons to him.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  34. John430 says:

    So, to reply to the pedophilia enthusiasts here, I note that there are approx. 414,000 Catholic priests worldwide and 1.229 billion Catholics. Recently His Holiness, Pope Francis estimated that 2% of priests are molesters. That percentage roughly corresponds to the number of Democrat pedophiles in the US alone. Many of those same abusers frequent this blog. You can tell who they are when they heap scorn upon others because they want to hide their perversions.

    Pch101 and HarvardLaw of the Ozarks defend the 1% of Muslims who want to destroy the West.
    Do the math: 1% of 1.8 billion Muslims… Guess they also want to overlook the fact that the Koran and Muhammed find pedophilia permissible.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  35. Matt says:

    @John430: So did your holy texts and worse. Who was it that was forced to marry and have kids with his mother by god? Or was it his sister? It was one of the many oldschool style tales in the bible.

    In the koran marriage =/= sex btw

    The holy texts of the old religious cults are full of stuff that was acceptable in the era they were written. Of course society itself has changed since then. Although underage marriages are still occurring but not as often as 70 years ago.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  36. Pch101 says:

    Exodus 31:15: “For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death.”

    John8675309’s god sounds like a bit of a whackjob, now doesn’t he?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  37. Matt says:

    @Pch101: Among other things like killing your kids if they lie or stoning people to death for stuff…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  38. john430 says:

    @Matt: Who was it that was forced to marry and have kids with his mother by god?

    WTF are you talking about?

    Ongoing in the Muslim nations and communities are female genital mutilation, killing homosexuals, adulterers, Jews, Christians and any other “infidels” they choose. Women are property and many of them condone child brides and pedophile buggery on the down-low.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3

  39. Pch101 says:

    John8675309’s capacity for stupid seems to be limitless.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  40. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @John430:

    Over 4,000 victimizer priests and over 10,000 individual victims that we know about, and that’s just in the US.

    We can only guess at the far larger number of victims who are or were too afraid, too ashamed or too dead to come forward and let their suffering be counted.

    When anybody starts talking about Catholic priests abusing children in terms of percentages, you can immediately flag that person as an apologist.

    You’re an apologist for pedophilia. Good luck explaining that one to your G-d when you meet him. I have nothing more to say to you, and now I think I’ll need a long, hot shower and a great deal of soap.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  41. Pch101 says:

    John8675309 thinks that a “racist” is someone who opposes racism and that a “pedophile” is someone who opposes pedophilia.

    It really does show that right-wing politics in America is just a bonding ritual for dumb people. It’s not that they have an alternative point of view, but that they simply don’t know what they’re talking about.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  42. john430 says:

    @HarvardLaw92: I don’t condone it and condemn it in all forms done by all people. Take a long shower. Your bigotry is more than skin deep. It goes clean through to the bone

    @Pch101: ” Progressive” talk from an idiot who majored in Orwellian Doublespeak.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  43. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @john430:

    lol no, you don’t condone it. You just try to minimize it, which is just as bad.

    In the same way that bishops and cardinals who were more interested in protecting assets than they were in protecting children were just as bad as the priests who committed the abuse.

    Helpful hint: protect the victims, not the victimizer. I don’t have a problem with your FAITH – so you can drop the feeble attempt at playing the victim. I have a problem with the ACTIONS of your church and its personnel.

    And by association I have a problem with your defense of them.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  44. Pch101 says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    I don’t think that you understand. The problem isn’t with child molestation, but with complaining about it!

    Now you can see why the right loves guns. They would like to shoot the messenger, literally.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  45. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Pch101:

    I don’t think that you understand. The problem isn’t with child molestation, but with complaining about it

    Oh, I understand, but really – how often do we get the opportunity to poke a real live religious hypocrite about his hypocrisy on here? :-)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  46. Matt says:

    @john430:

    Ongoing in the SOME Muslim nations and communities are female genital mutilation, killing homosexuals, adulterers, Jews, Christians and any other “infidels” they choose. Women are property and many of them condone child brides and pedophile buggery on the down-low.

    Replace Muslim with Christian and you’ll still be telling the truth. What you’re complaining about is a cultural thing and religion is just piled on top.

    Even here in “civilized” MURICA there is a sizable portion of people who would openly support the execution of gays. Fortunately thanks to political correctness most of those types keep their mouth shut.

    Leviticus 20:10

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  47. john430 says:

    @Matt: I’m sure you’d like to have it both ways, but…female genital mutilation is done in some Muslim communities in the US and killing gays or anybody else is murder although “honor killings” and killing gays is quite alright in certain other Muslim communities. Pakistan v. gays and Somalis v. female circumcision. There is NO Christian belief that advocates killing gays. Leviticus is historical and I have never read of a scenario nor heard of a sermon where that is actively promoted anywhere in Christendom.

    @HarvardLaw92: Actually, the only hypocrisy here comes from you two. Tolerance and free speech seem to be anathema to you phonies.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3

  48. Pch101 says:

    Female genital mutilation existed long before Islam.

    Female genital mutilation is not a requirement of Islam.

    Most Muslims don’t practice female genital mutilation.

    There are people of other faiths, including some Christians, who do practice female genital mutilation.

    You may as well argue that Big Macs are part of Christianity because there are many American Christians who eat Big Macs.

    John8675309 must have a mutilated brain, as this stuff should not be tough to understand.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  49. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @john430:

    In other words – “How dare you be intolerant of my intolerance!”

    GFYS, kiddie diddler…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  50. Pch101 says:

    John86753609 has a typical right-wing plantation overseers mentality.

    He wants to be free to inflict abuse and impose judgment on those who don’t belong to his tribe, without getting any pushback in return. It’s a one-way street, and he wants to be the one who directs the traffic.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  51. john430 says:

    @HarvardLaw92: Aahh, sexual slurs— the last resort of the underclass. You’d fit right in with the kids whose admission letters to Harvard were revoked last week after it was discovered they posted filth. Like you do.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  52. Pch101 says:

    John8675309 must be one of the least subtle hypocrites you’ll find.

    Attacking Islam doesn’t get him or his Catholic Church off of the hook. Most of us here know what he’s about, and none of it is good.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  53. John430 says:

    @Pch101: As far as your “most of us here” remark,I ‘d remind you that you are a rent-seeking troll in amongst other trolls who don’t have self-awareness.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  54. Matt says:

    @john430: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/10/teenager-killed-at-upstate-church.html

    You must of forgotten about that or the Christians that went to Uganda to push for the law that made homosexual behaviour punishable by death.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-anti-gay-law-uganda/

    Come on dude it takes me only a couple seconds with google to find pages upon pages of links to Christians doing all kinds of things you blame Muslims for.

    Leviticus is commonly used by Christians in the USA to justify their hatred of gays.

    Why you can’t just admit that people will use religion to excuse their cultural activity is beyond me.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  55. Pch101 says:

    John8675309 just wants an excuse to hate Muslims and dark people. Any excuse will do.

    He keeps trying to change the subject. He doesn’t want to talk about his church and his responsibility for it. Collective guilt is for those uppity, pesky minorities, not for himself.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  56. john430 says:

    …just wants an excuse to hate Muslims and dark people. Any excuse will do.

    @Pch101:

    You know that’s an outright lie and trolling to promote your BS shows that you are the disgusting racist and bigot that you accuse others of being. I’d suggest you examine your conscience but you don’t have one.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0