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What Happens if Trump is Un-nominated?

question-of-the-day

Like my co-blogger Doug Mataconis, I think the notion that Donald Trump will be removed from the Republican ticket is a fantasy. Too many people have thrown in with him at this stage and it’s almost certainly too late in the game. Aside from practical hurdles, while many of us would be happy to have almost anyone else other than Donald J. Trump as the Republican nominee at this point, one imagines that a whole lot of Republican primary voters who made him the nominee by a wide margin would be outraged.

Still, not only is it a fun topic of discussion it would also happen to be good for the country. And, while implausible, it’s not impossible.  Jonathan Martin, a political reporter for the NYT, tweets:

So, for the sake of argument, let’s assume that it happens and it happens fast. Maybe there are more tapes out there and maybe GOP leadership has them at their disposal and can get Trump to resign. Maybe there’s some other way to force him out.  A myriad of problems immediately suggest themselves:

  • The next presidential debate is tomorrow night. Can it be postponed? Or does Trump participate in the first two—of only three—debates and then exit the stage?
  • What of those who’ve already cast their votes for Trump? For that matter, what of those who’ve voted for another candidate? Presumably, there are some significant number of people who would have voted for the replacement Republican but instead voted for Gary Johnson or Hillary Clinton? [Among the many reasons I hate early voting: While most people are party loyalists, massive events can change people’s minds. If that happens after people have voted, it skews the outcome.]
  • Who would said “replacement Republican” even be?  Mike Pence seems the obvious choice, since he was chosen as the number two guy at the Convention. But he was selected by Trump and has surely tainted himself by frequently defending the indefensible. There’s a case for a “#NeverTrump” guy but that’s arguably undemocratic, especially if it’s a John Kasich or Jeb Bush who lost to Trump in the primaries.

Steve Clemons passes along some interesting legal speculation from a bonafide expert:

That’s certainly true as a technical matter. While, as a matter of custom, Americans indirectly vote for president and have their wishes reflected via the mechanism of the Electoral College, the Electors are in most states free agents who can cast their ballot for whomever they wish. In the handful of states with bound Electors, it’s not at all clear that they can’t also vote for whomever they wish, providing they’re willing to suffer the consequences thereafter.

Presumably, there would be no do-overs for the early voters. And, presumably, most Trump Electors would ultimately fall in line and go with Pence (or whomever) rather than handing the election to Clinton. But not all of them would do so.

The ultimate outcome of this fantasy scenario would almost surely be the same outcome as the status quo: Hillary Clinton elected as the first female president. It would be exceedingly difficult for Pence to suddenly run as his own man at this point and he has plenty of baggage in his own right that hasn’t been vetted by a long campaign.

Related Posts:

About James Joyner
James Joyner is the publisher of Outside the Beltway, an associate professor of security studies at the Marine Corps Command and Staff College, and a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm vet. He earned a PhD in political science from The University of Alabama. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter.

Comments

  1. Liberal Capitalist says:

    I think that the outcome is the same…

    Will it be Ms. President, or Mrs. President?

    I think “Ms.” would be best.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  2. James Joyner says:

    @Liberal Capitalist: I’m pretty sure it would be “Madame President,” actually, since that’s how we address women in similar roles, notwithstanding the Constitution making it clear that the title is “Mr. President.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1

  3. ltmcdies says:

    would somebody please explain explain what one knows about Trump now, one didn’t know last week, last month, the day he attacked Megyn Kelly with the “blood for where ever” when he called Mexicans rapists and murders…on mass.

    When he mocked the disabled reporter….when his campaign manager grabbed a female reporter
    and Donald’s response was “oh well” only firing the guy when the push back didn’t ease.

    Female reporters at his events have had to escorted out by the Secret Service due to the hostility of the crowd. Trump has stated he’d pay the legal fees for anyone in his crowd charged with beating up a protester…”take them out on stretcher”…remember that

    All these events happened before yesterday…all of them. The man has always been this way.

    I give credit to the NeverTrump people but I’m sorry….the stench isn’t going away by placing
    Mike…”Funerals for Fetuses” …Pence at the top of ticket.
    Mike Pence accepted the position of VP after all those events happened, he stood by Trump’s side and if Pence didn’t know who his running mate was…then he’s either willfully blind or too stupid to breathe.

    It’s a sad day in American politics…it really is…but trying to paper over the GOP mess won’t make it better

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 38 Thumb down 1

  4. michael reynolds says:

    This could get messy. I want Trump to stay in. Every day he stays in is another bunch of ballots already printed, and another bunch of mail-ins.

    But Trump/Putin forces are hard at work on Twitter defending him. Those people – you know, Republican voters and their good friends the Putin Bots – will not be happy if Cheetoh Jesus ends up in a ditch so the ‘elite’ ‘establishment’ and their allies in ‘the corrupt media’ can run a Jeb or even a Pence.

    Only Trump can bring on the necessary humiliation of black and brown people. That’s why Republicans support Trump. Any candidate promising anything less than the race war they’ve gotten so excited about, will face a firestorm of reaction from ‘true conservatives.’

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 2

  5. CSK says:

    @Liberal Capitalist:

    “Madame President” would be in keeping with traditional usage, but it may be too formal for the present day.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  6. Blue Galangal says:

    @michael reynolds: I just want to go through the updates point by point of all the Republican politicians calling for him to step down and say to each and every one of them (live, on tape!), “What, you act like you didn’t already know this about him. He was NEVER fit to be president. Wilted lettuce would have been a better nominee. So too bad, so sad. The time to stop Trump was nine frickin’ months ago. So, no, you don’t get to have a late-term abortion NOW, jerkwads!”

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 1

  7. michael reynolds says:

    “It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion — that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” – Abraham Lincoln

    “The spirit of man is more important than mere physical strength, and the spiritual fiber of a nation than its wealth.” – Dwight Eisenhower.

    “We welcome change and openness; for we believe that freedom and security go together, that the advance of human liberty can only strengthen the cause of world peace. There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace. General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization, come here to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” – Ronald Reagan

    “We are a nation of communities… a brilliant diversity spread like stars, like a thousand points of light in a broad and peaceful sky.” – George HW Bush

    “Grab ’em by the pussy.” – Donald Trump

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 2

  8. Jen says:

    The Washington Post had an interesting column on this issue, and it doesn’t sound to me–at least through their reasoning–that this is a feasible proposition.

    From their argument, what governs is Rule 9, which covers *vacancies* specifically:

    “fill any and all vacancies which may occur by reason of death, declination, or otherwise of the Republican candidate for President of the United States”

    If Trump refuses to withdraw, there is no vacancy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  9. gVOR08 says:

    @ltmcdies: Nobody knows anything today they didn’t know a week ago. It just became too big a steaming heap for them to step over.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  10. James Joyner says:

    @michael reynolds: Well, that last one is certainly catchier! Although, in fairness, not said by a sitting president or in a public speech.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

  11. James Joyner says:

    @Jen: Presumably, he’d have to be forced to resign. Although one could argue there’s been a “declination” since the first debate.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  12. gVOR08 says:

    Even if Trump withdraws by promising to declare himself unable to fulfill the duties one minute after the swearing in, do you think the ensuing last minute clown act would really, on balance, draw votes to Pence. Or whoever they finagled in on some other pretense? Any discussion of how GOP Electors would behave after Clinton wins is irrelevant.

    Schadenfreude isn’t just for breakfast anymore.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  13. Pch101 says:

    Americans vote for electors who are committed to a particular candidate, not for a political party.

    The Republican Party could conceivably claim that Trump is no longer its nominee and name someone else — that would be an internal matter. But the GOP can’t bar Trump as an individual from running, and the GOP replacement nominee would probably be only a write-in candidate in virtually every race, given how late it is in the game. So Trump would still be on the ballot.

    A majority of states have laws against faithless electors, so many of the Trump electors cannot vote for someone else without some sort of consequence. In some cases, their votes would be voted if they opted to vote for a different candidate.

    At this stage, the GOP can just denounce Trump and withhold cash and prizes from his campaign fund. Too little, too late.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  14. Laura Koerber says:

    I’m kind of surprised that this is the breaking point. His is facing RICO charges–why wasn’t that an issue? He has ties to Russia and has already demonstrated that Putin can grab him by the balls at any time with impunity–why wasn’t that the deal breaker? I am of course pretty steamed up that a serial adulterer who thinks he has license to grab ass whenever he pleases and who is being sued for raping a teenager got the nomination. I’m just puzzled that his confession for having a predilection for sexual assault is what finally did him in. Is it because he has made every Republican who ever claimed to vote for family values look like a hypocrite?

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 1

  15. CSK says:

    Mike Pence just issued a statement saying that he does not condone Trump’s remarks and will not defend them. But he’s staying on the ticket. It would have been to Pence’s great credit if he’d said: “What was I thinking accepting the vp slot from such an oaf, boor, and boob? You’re on your own, Mr. Littlefingers.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1

  16. dxq says:

    “I don’t approve of trump’s words, but come on, we’re just talking about chicks here, not real people.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

  17. @James Joyner:

    Actually I don’t think the Constitution mentions how the President should be addressed. That evolved as a matter of custom from President Washington, who rejected suggestions from John Adams and others for a more fllowery form of formal address.

    At the same time, though, the President is referred to as “he” throughout Article II and in the Amendments dealing with the Presidency (12th, 20th, and 25th Amendments)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  18. dxq says:

    Hillary should show up at the next debate with a magazine and a pina colada, and every time trump shouts something at her she should just say “Fuck. You.” and keep reading the magazine.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 2

  19. dxq says:

    The Married Journalist Who Rejected Trump’s Advances? He Tried to Fire Her.

    because of course.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  20. stonetools says:

    I’m a bit worried at all the calls from liberals and others for the Republicans to “dump Trump” or to otherwise “do something” about Trump. I don’t want the Republicans to do something borderline legal to force out Trump. For one thing, that would set off a constitutional crisis that a crippled, 4-4 divided Supreme Court would be ill equipped to resolve. It would also cause resentment, possibly leading to armed rebellion, by Trump voters.
    No, I think the best end game for liberals would be that Trump go on to landslide defeat in November, taking down the Republican Congressional majorities with him. That should be the liberal goal.
    Liberals have been calling on Republicans like Kelly Ayotte to disavow, or not vote for Trump. Frankly, I don’t give a sh!t what Ayotte does. What matters to me is that NH voters reject Ayotte and a Republican Party that would allow, indeed enable, a racist, misogynistic demagogue with no discernible qualifications to be their Presidential nominee.We shouldn’t be electing candidates from such a party to positions in the government until they figure out what the heck went wrong. Trump is simply a big sign pointing to something rotten in the Republican Party, and they need to sort that out.

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 1

  21. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Pch101: In the twenty-nine states that have laws against faithless electors, a faithless elector may only be punished after they vote (wiki).
    After an (faithless) elector has voted, their vote can be changed only in states such as Michigan and Minnesota (wiki)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  22. dxq says:

    i REALLY expect this being released on oct. 7 means there are other items to come. If this was all they had, it probably would have been released late in the month. Around Clinton HQ this is probly referred to as Minor Strike 1. I assume there’re more, with a final locked safe which will be opened somewhere around November 1, with Robby Mook saying, “It’s time.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  23. CSK says:

    Pence just canceled a campaign appearance on behalf of Trump in Wisconsin.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  24. stonetools says:

    Bill: Our oppo research team has performed above expectations. We pity the puny Republican oppo team with their talk of emails and 20 year old scandals.

    Hillary: The time has almost come to launch the final, killing strike.This time there will be no escape.

    A moment passes, then both:

    HAIL HYDRA!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

  25. Stormy Dragon says:

    @dxq:

    i REALLY expect this being released on oct. 7 means there are other items to come

    Via Twitter, Trump himself says more is coming:

    .@RealBenCarson told me he & @realDonaldTrump talked about more revelations coming: "They have have more things & they will drip them out"— Ed Henry (@edhenry) October 8, 2016

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  26. Stormy Dragon says:

    If only there was a pair of two term Republican governors disgusted GOP voters could support instead.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  27. Grumpy Realist says:

    @Pch101: they’re not going to get any further than the tut tutting noises they’ve made so far.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  28. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @dxq:

    I’m still not convinced that the Republicans didn’t leak this one. It was followed up entirely too quickly by “but hey, we could just pick Pence instead” for my “not a coincidence” antennae to miss it.

    That said, I’m also not sure that there is enough soundproofing material in the world sufficient to stifle the gleeful noise coming out of Clinton campaign HQ over it either. It does make one wonder what the next act will be – this certainly isn’t the last such zinger that’ll find its way onto the stage.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  29. dxq says:

    it got leaked with just enough time to completely inflate right before the debate, and it’s more likely to me that the Dems would have the material, but it could have been the GOP.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  30. CSK says:

    Melania Trump just denounced her husband’s statement calling it “unacceptable and offensive to me.”

    This is one of those days when you’re afraid to get up take a shower, make a pot of coffee, marinate a steak for dinner because you might miss something.

    So what’s next? Pence throws in the towel?????

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  31. dxq says:

    You know, I’m enjoying all this. 40 years of calling black people welfare queens and takers and thugs, bashing women, selling poor white morons ideas like “gutting the EPA and letting us dump toxins into your drinking water in East Bumfuck will totally create awesome new jobs for you, we totally aren’t just telling you that because we’ll make all the money and poison your dumb hillbilly ass and you’re so stupid you’ll actually fall for this.” trickle-down, build the wall, lookit the scary muslims…

    Wonder how Millard Fillmore felt, there at the end?

    Highly-rated. Helpful or Unhelpful: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 0

  32. stonetools says:

    Here is another victim stepping forward. Her story, in the NYT, no less:

    The first sign of trouble came the day before the evening groping, in an initial business meeting in which, Harth and Houraney say, Trump spent the time asking about the breasts of the beauty contestants — real or enhanced? — and staring at Harth, then 30. At one point he asked Houraney, “Are you sleeping with her?” Houraney explained awkwardly that they were a couple, but Trump was unfazed.

    “You know, there’s going to be a problem,” Trump told Houraney, according to a 1997 sexual harassment lawsuit Harth filed against him. “I’m very attracted to your girlfriend.”

    On Jan. 24, 1993, Harth and Houraney went to Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida for a contract-signing celebration, bringing along some “calendar girls” at Trump’s request. He offered Harth a tour of the estate and then pulled her into the empty bedroom of his daughter Ivanka.

    “I was admiring the decoration, and next thing I know he’s pushing me against a wall and has his hands all over me,” Harth told me. “He was trying to kiss me. I was freaking out.” Harth says she was desperately protesting, and finally managed to run out of the room and find the group again. She and Houraney left rather than stay the night, as they had intended.

    Unbelievable that this didn’t come out till now. And I’m sure there’s more like that to come.What the H. were his primary oppponents’ research teams doing for the past 18 months?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

  33. stonetools says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    People have looked at Gary ” I don’t know nothing ’bout foreign policy” Johnson. And they’re rejected him too.

    You know, there can be more than one unacceptable Presidential nominee per cycle.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1

  34. CSK says:

    @stonetools:

    Actually, this isn’t just coming out now. It’s been around for a while. If you’re a Trump–slobberer, you know that Ms. Harth is just a crazy lying slut who invented the whole story to gouge money out of an innocent billionaire.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  35. Stormy Dragon says:

    @stonetools:

    Indeed, he’s not been impressive, but in this cycle merely not being a felon him put him in a rather small pool of options.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  36. stonetools says:

    I’ve just spent the last 10 minutes on Twitter. There is so much about to come out-including audio of conversations with Howard Stern.It’s like a sewer pipe bursting.
    The Republican Party is in in for a disastrous month.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  37. michael reynolds says:

    @CSK:

    I know! I’m getting no work done. Trump is already killing economic productivity.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  38. Argon says:

    It’s pretty clear that there will be a Trump/Ailes/Brietbart media conglomerate that will rise from theseveral ashes. The GOP is seriously fckd.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  39. CSK says:

    @michael reynolds:

    Me neither! Happily I just sent off an article yesterday. But I promised an editor a list of ideas, and all I can think about is this.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  40. Jen says:

    @michael reynolds: That comment wins the thread!

    I’ve had to force myself away from the computer, but it makes me anxious. FOMO.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  41. CSK says:

    @Argon:

    Oh, yeah, and the programming will be just dynamite. Some possible shows:

    1. T!ts: Fake or Real? Join Donald as he and his panel of experts determine who’s been surgically enhanced and who hasn’t.

    2. Pussies on Parade: Join Donald and his team of experts in picking the most desirable broads. Winner gets a night with The Donald. First runner-up gets two nights.

    3. Bankruptcy Beat: How to stiff your creditors and walk away laughing.

    4. Trumpomat: Chris Christie shares tips on how to launder socks and underwear to the Donald’s liking.

    It’ll be yuge!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

  42. MarkedMan says:

    @CSK:

    Madame President” would be in keeping with traditional usage, but it may be too formal for the present day.

    Hmm. This may be a case where the term is so dated that it could successfully come back into use. It has a nice ring.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  43. Ben Wolf says:

    @stonetools: Don’t worry: they’ll take it as an opportunity to demand a return to real Republican Party values, where the interests of big business are always first. Whether it’s supporting apartheid, mowing down central american peasants or selling weapons to Iran things will be back to normal soon!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  44. CSK says:

    It’s getting impossible to keep up. CNN, Mediaite, and several other places now have a tape of Trump telling Howard Stern that it’s fine with him if Stern refers to Ivanka as a “piece of ass.”

    Gentlemen, if some sleazy radio guy asked you if he could call your daughter a “piece of ass,” would you be cool with that?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

  45. Tlaloc says:

    Joyner:

    [Among the many reasons I hate early voting: While most people are party loyalists, massive events can change people’s minds. If that happens after people have voted, it skews the outcome.]

    Is there something magical about election day where no events that change minds happen after it passes?

    Nope.

    So unless you want to go to some kind of system that is parliamentary like, where a leader lasts only so long as they maintain their support, this objection seems moot.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  46. Scott says:

    @Stormy Dragon: Here’s a bit of alternate history fantasy. What if we had a race between Pence, Kaine, and Weld? Might be boring but substantive.

    Also, can we take a moment to appreciate the class act of the Obamas?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  47. Tlaloc says:

    The ultimate outcome of this fantasy scenario would almost surely be the same outcome as the status quo: Hillary Clinton elected as the first female president.

    Ah but the mess of a trump withdrawal (you have no ides just how dirty I feel writing that) gives the GOP its most fervent wish- a way to claim Hillary’s presidency is illegitimate.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  48. CSK says:

    Mike Pence’s schedule has been wiped clean at the Trump campaign website. There’s a note asking people to check back later.

    I know that Pence had further events planned originally. Hmmm..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  49. stonetools says:

    McClain is out, and Ted Cruz is thinking of un-endorsing, two weeks after he endorsed and two months after he un-endorsed.

    The schaden, it fruedens itself.
    OT:

    I’m listening to the Beatles’ Revolver album for the first time. It’s quite good.

    I’m about to eat dinner and binge on Luke Cage on Netflix .

    It’s been a great day.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  50. PJ says:

    @stonetools:

    McClain is out

    If I was a troll like Jenos etc, I would guess right now would be a perfect time to visit right-wing sites letting people know that McCain has made a deal with Clinton to give her Arizona and that he’s being paid with Clinton Foundation money.

    ….
    More seriously.

    it’s not very likely that Trump is going to keep quiet about McCain un-endorsing him, more likely he’s going to lash out, frequently.

    Trump got 46% in the GOP Arizona primary, I wonder how many Trump voters in the state is going to refuse to vote for McCain, though McCain has a 16 point lead in the latest poll.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  51. HarvardLaw92 says:

    Not sure if everyone has seen this yet or not. We were lucky enough to be near Union Square when this happened on Sunday. Yet another reason why I’m proud to be a New Yorker / why I love this amazing city.

    Hillary Flash Mob

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  52. Senyordave says:

    @stonetools: You know, there can be more than one unacceptable Presidential nominee per cycle.

    Actually, there are three this time. Jill Stein said recently that Clinton would be more dangerous than Trump, because if Clinton is elected she’ll be able to work with Congress and get much more of her agenda enacted. And unlike Johnson, I don’t think Stein was high at the time.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

  53. CSK says:

    Kellyanne Conway has bailed on the Sunday shows for tomorrow morning.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  54. dxq says:

    now the alt-right are calling Paul Ryan a “cuck” and urging his ouster.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  55. CSK says:

    It seems Pence has been rescheduled for two events in North Carolina on Monday. What’s he going to do: explain to the crowd that it’s perfectly okay for Trump to encourage Howard Stern to call Ivanka a piece of ass?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  56. MarkedMan says:

    TPM is reporting Ryan was heckled by Trump supporters in Wisconsin.

    It makes sense. They feel their guy legitimately won but the establishment won’t support him. And they are right.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

  57. gVOR08 says:

    We’re ignoring the obvious in getting Trump to withdraw. Remember a 70s Clint Eastwood war movie, Kelly’s Heroes? Clint Eastwood’s guys have fought their way to a French bank behind German lines with a stash of Nazi gold, but the bank is guarded by a big German Tiger tank. They can’t figure out a way in ’til the hustler, Don Rickles, suggests, “Make a deal with ‘im.” “What kind of a deal?” “A deal deal! Maybe the guy’s a Republican! Business is business, right?”

    Priebus gathers a dozen or so Republican billionaire political hobbyists, the Koch Bros, Adelson, Friess, etc. He explains that the only chance of putting off dealing with AGW and preserving their cockamamie tax breaks is to hold the Senate, and the only chance of doing that is to get Trump out quickly and quietly. They kick in a 100 mil apiece and pay Trump to bail. He couldn’t resist. At least until the taxes came due he’d be a real billionaire.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  58. Barry says:

    @James Joyner: “Presumably, he’d have to be forced to resign. Although one could argue there’s been a “declination” since the first debate.”

    The problem is that nobody can legally force him to resign. And what sort of pressure would Trump cave in to?

    The second sentence is technically true in that liars can make any sort of argument; poor performance is not ‘declination’.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  59. An Interested Party says:

    How deliciously ironic that we will have our first female president partially because of the raging misogynistic actions of a royal male chauvinist pig…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  60. JohnMcC says:

    OK, folks! I can dream like you but…. Our friend Donald J Trump has the loyalty of something like 40% of your fellow citizens who despite everything dumped on his candidacy up until — say — a week ago or less just love his sorry ass. They think they have ‘won’ fair and square in a major party primary. They also are sure that ‘elites’ have been cheating them for years.

    The real issue for the GOP professional class is not how icky that candidate is. He’s been icky for years. The GOP professional class is suddenly motivated to look for ways to remove or diminish Mr Trump because he’s likely to cost those professionals their jobs in Congress.

    That 40% or so is the real problem not their candidate and not their party.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  61. michael reynolds says:

    @JohnMcC:
    Yes, this is what keeps all this from being fun. I live in a country where 40% of my fellow citizens are this fwcked in the head.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

  62. DrDaveT says:

    @gVOR08:

    Remember a 70s Clint Eastwood war movie, Kelly’s Heroes?

    Remember? How could anyone forget?

    …And what could be more timely than the immortal words of Donald Sutherland as Oddball:

    Always them negative waves, Moriarty. Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  63. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Barry:

    It’s legitimately far too late for them to replace him. The election is 30 days away at this point. Ballots have already been printed in too many states – indeed probably in every state – by now.

    Some 400,000 or so early and absentee ballots have already been cast. The GOP would be stuck trying to cajole and beg secretaries of state to change them, allow revotes for the then spoiled / early votes, pursue injunctions on a state by state basis, etc. Even if they somehow by a miracle succeeded, who then gets to be the replacement nominee? Pence, who nobody voted for in any primary, or the number two vote getter in that affair – our buddy Ted (who is an equally bad choice). The internecine warfare would rip the party apart even worse than it already has been and ensure that Trump’s base goes off the deep end.

    Every Republican strategist in my contacts list is privately saying the same thing – the presidency is lost. They’re focused at this point on trying to contain the down ballot damage, but (again, privately), they’re now worried about losing Congress as well. One of them made the comment earlier today that there are certainly more bad optics / even worse oppo releases just waiting to drop on their heads. Trump’s lifelong love affair with himself and with microphones makes that utterly unavoidable, and the Dems have funded OpRes extremely well in this cycle. The next 30 days are going to be a constantly playing defense whack-a-mole circus / death of a thousand cuts for the GOP.

    It’s not a good time to be a professional political operative if you’re a Republican.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

  64. James Joyner says:

    @Doug Mataconis: Yes, you’re right. I remembered that the debate had happened but for some reason thought it was at the Constitutional Convention rather than post-inauguration.

    @Stormy Dragon: Gary Johnson has been my default choice should Clinton continue to lead in Virginia by enough to allow me to not vote for her. But he’s made it very difficult by continually demonstrating that, like Trump, he isn’t taking the campaign seriously enough to do his damn homework.

    @Tlaloc: It’s true that things could come out after the election. But it’s truly bizarre to have voting taking place weeks before the election. Before the debates. Before the most intense period of the campaign.

    @Tlaloc: I would think the opposite, actually. She’s going to essentially be running unopposed if Trump is on the ticket with most of the GOP Senators, Governors, and Representatives having denounced him and the RNC refusing to fund his campaign. Certainly, a lot of Trump supporters would be crying that the game is “rigged” but that’s pretty much baked in at this point.

    @Barry: I was being glib there. The language is vague enough that the RNC could essentially do whatever they want but the few legal scholars who I’ve read on this say that their hands are pretty tied.

    @HarvardLaw92: That’s my read as well. It’s technically possible—it got done in about this amount of time with the Torricelli-Lautenberg switcheroo—but extremely difficult because we have 51 elections for president rather than one.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  65. MarkedMan says:

    @gVOR08: you know, that’s a real possibility trump is a miser at heart. He might drop out for a couple of hundred million. Especially now. Who’s going to pay Trump to put his name on a hotel now? He isn’t just trashing the Republican Party! He’s trashing his brand.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  66. MarkedMan says:

    @gVOR08: you know, that’s a real possibility trump is a miser at heart. He might drop out for a couple of hundred million. Especially now. Who’s going to pay Trump to put his name on a hotel now? He isn’t just trashing the Republican Party! He’s trashing his brand.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  67. MarkedMan says:

    There’s been a lot of mentions about Trump having 40% of support but a more important number is that he has 90% of Republican’s support. As I said in the primarys, Trump IS the modern Republican Party. If Trump withdraws, why would they come to the polls? People like James might, but he is not a typical Republican. Remember, Trump won the primary handily.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  68. MarkedMan says:

    The following, via the Atlantic, gives insight into what the typical Republican is thinkink

    A poll conducted on Saturday found that just 12 percent of Republicans want Trump to drop out, and that three-quarters want their party to stick with its nominee.

    The Politico/Morning Consult survey showed an online panel the full video, and asked them how they felt. Seventy-four percent reacted negatively; 61 percent reported it made them feel somewhat or much less favorably toward Trump. But, as with everything else in 2016, there was a sharp partisan split. Only 48 percent of Republicans said it made them feel less favorably toward their candidate, and more than a third said it made no difference.

    James, I hate to pile on, but you only think you are a Republican. The Party started walking away from you three decades ago.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  69. James Joyner says:

    @MarkedMan: The Party both moved further right as rural social conservatives took over from the ground up (school boards, state legislatures, etc.) and simultaneously failed to change its playbook from 1980 despite real shifts in policy and climate. Meanwhile, I’ve moved on a lot of issues over the years. So, it’s been a two-way street. I’ve acknowledged for years that I was in a shrinking minority within the party. Last cycle, I wanted Jon Huntsman but could settle for Mitt Romney; there was no other candidate in the primaries I could have supported. This year, my favorites, Jeb Bush and John Kasich, failed to catch on. I might have been able to support Marco Rubio, but he never caught on either. The rest were either manifestly unqualified for the job, crazy, or both.

    Even though I haven’t aligned myself with the Democratic Party, if Joe Biden, John Kerry, TIm Kaine, or any number of other Democrats were the nominee, I’d have endorsed them already. Hillary Clinton is a bridge too far for me and many others, although I’ve indicated for months that I prefer her to Trump.

    We’ll see what happens to the GOP after Trump. I don’t know if this will be a wake-up call or whether the base will double down on the crazy in 2020. I’d think losing the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 elections would be a strong signal.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  70. Jen says:

    @MarkedMan: I just saw that, and I’ll admit I’m a bit surprised.

    What will be really interesting is the fallout for all of those Republicans in tight races who rushed out statements. The Trump supporters–the vehement ones–are probably mad as heck and might penalize them for being disloyal. I don’t think there’s any going back for any of them: Ayotte cannot reverse herself and say she’ll be voting for Trump.

    We still have four more weeks to go. Trump will look at these polling numbers and there’s no way he’ll drop out–after all, he has the support of his voters if not his party. Wow.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  71. Lynn Eggers says:

    @CSK: “Melania Trump just denounced her husband’s statement calling it “unacceptable and offensive to me.””

    Followed by, “This does not represent the man that I know. He has the heart and mind of a leader. I hope people will accept his apology, as I have, and focus on the important issues facing our nation and the world.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  72. stonetools says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    Trump’s lifelong love affair with himself and with microphones makes that utterly unavoidable, and the Dems have funded OpRes extremely well in this cycle. The next 30 days are going to be a constantly playing defense whack-a-mole circus / death of a thousand cuts for the GOP.

    I’m wondering if these revelations ( Machado, the tax return, and now P*ssygate) is the resulted of coordinated Democratic oppo research strategy. They do seem to have occurred in a manner calculated to wreck the Republican Party, at a time when the Republicans cannot legally separate themselves from Trump.
    If this is so, then we have to reconsider the narrative that Hillary Clinton is a terrible campaigner. Maybe terrible like a fox…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  73. Jen says:

    @stonetools: I’m not certain the most recent clip is a result of any kind of Democratic involvement. Apparently, NBC had been sitting on the story for more than four days because they were waiting for clearance from lawyers.

    The clip was part of the Access Hollywood archives, meaning it wasn’t publicly aired. According to the WaPo, they found it while pulling together all of their Trump footage, and wanted to break the story themselves but got scooped by WaPo–the real question is who on the inside would have done this, as it’s unlikely the campaign itself would have had access to it. Knowledge of it, yes, but being able to provide the clip?

    The rest of it–Machado, the tax returns, and who-knows-what else–yes, that’s likely the work of an extremely experienced and disciplined campaign. This clip, I think was just one of how many others out there–my guess is that every network has a team culling through all of their stored footage.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  74. Pch101 says:

    @stonetools:

    “Hillary Clinton is a terrible campaigner” = “Hillary Clinton isn’t charismatic.” And that’s a fair accusation — on the big stage, she is mediocre at best with a grating voice, and she is certainly not inspirational.

    But she is intelligent and resilient, and she is adept at learning from her mistakes and mounting comebacks. She’s competitive where it counts. It’s October, and well, here’s Trump’s surprise (although it isn’t really surprising, is it?)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  75. CSK says:

    @Lynn Eggers:

    Yes, I saw that. It didn’t surprise me; she–or whoever wrote it for her–had to soften it some way. But even so, I would have expected discreet silence.

    The silly part is her saying that the comments didn’t represent the man she knows. Of course they do. Perfectly. He’s been saying the same sort of thing for the past 30 years.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  76. gVOR08 says:

    @James Joyner:

    I don’t know if this will be a wake-up call or whether the base will double down on the crazy in 2020. I’d think losing the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 elections would be a strong signal.

    I’m sure you realize the base doesn’t think in terms of electoral strategy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  77. stonetools says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Now liberals have been calling on Republican leaders to have abandon Trump , presumably because liberals thought the voters would follow the leaders.
    So far that hasn’t happened. 50 Republican leaders have abandoned Trump. The base clearly has not, which is why they booed Ryan at the rally yesterday.
    This shows once again that the real problem here is that Trump represents the Republican Party base in all its racist, xenophobic glory. The base’s view is clear: so long as Trump promises to keep out browns, keep down the blacks, and return us to some mythical golden age , we’ll overlook his misogyny ( plus those women were asking for it anyway, amirite?).

    I see no other solution here other than to vote out every Republican at any level. To do otherwise is to simply enable the racists. The Republican Party will never reform and never reject the racists, absent overwhelming defeat at the polls. That’s how I see it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  78. Tillman says:

    @Jen: my guess is oppo research didn’t turn up the tax returns, but that was a disgruntled employee or an ex-wife. Trump is about as self-defeating as they come.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  79. gVOR08 says:

    @stonetools:

    If this is so, then we have to reconsider the narrative that Hillary Clinton is a terrible campaigner. Maybe terrible like a fox…

    Right. There’s more to campaigning than being charismatic on stage. Hillary seems to be doing a great job of managing a campaign. The great business manager on the other hand…
    Does anyone think Bernie, god love him, could have fund raised and organized like Hillary has? Does anyone think Bernie could have gutted Trump like Hillary did in the first debate? Does anyone think Bernie’s campaign could have briefed Kaine to set Pence up like he did? I haven’t been hearing much ‘you shoulda nominated Bernie’ talk lately.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  80. CSK says:

    @gVOR08:

    The base is thinking in terms of revenge, pure and simple. They hate the Republicans in Congress as much as they do the Democrats, because they see Republicans such as Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell as indistinguishable from Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  81. stonetools says:

    @Jen:

    You may be right about this. I think it’s also possible that the Clinton campaign has it’s own clips out there, which it hasn’t released yet, since it’s almost certain there’s more of this out there. This particular clip might just be Clinton’s good fortune.
    I read somewhere that there at least two clips out there that are even worse than the “P*ssygate” clip, so maybe the Clinton campaign has those. I also think there is a 50-50 chance that Clinton unveils something new at the debate tonight. Must see TV..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  82. CSK says:

    If I’m not mistaken, the debate tonight is not actually a standard debate, but a town hall format, which means Trump and Clinton will be taking questions from the audience. That puts Trump at an even greater disadvantage, given that it takes so little to set him off.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  83. stonetools says:

    @Tillman:

    Well, you may be right. But it’s the “timing” of the releases that is telling. Maples has had these tax returns for a long time. Why did they come to light at the beginning of October?

    My thinking is that coincidences do happen-once. Two or three times? That’s a plan.My guess is that Maples wanted to stick it to Trump, but didn’t want her fingerprints on it, so she slipped it to a Democratic operative in her circle a while ago, who forwarded it to the Clinton campaign, who then put it in John Podesta’s “October Surprise” binder. I have a feeling there’s a lot more in that binder, too

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  84. michael reynolds says:

    @stonetools:

    I agree. The timing has been too perfect. I smell oppo.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  85. CSK says:

    @michael reynolds:

    You think you’ll get much work done today? Me neither.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  86. Bob@Youngstown says:

    “(I’ve) never pretended to be someone that I’m not”

    Ever heard of John Miller / Barron ?

    Sure, it’s a minor point, but if Donald can’t get through the first 15 words of his “apology” without telling a lie (and insulting our intelligence), then just maybe the “apology” is just more bullsh*t.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  87. michael reynolds says:

    @CSK:

    It’s my wife’s 60th birthday and we both agreed to cancel dinner and watch the debate. But I am determined to put in some hours during the day on my current book. Yesterday I got like 2 pages written – not acceptable.

    So, in the interest of work, no headlines today!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  88. grumpy realist says:

    @CSK: My response to her would have NOT been ladylike:

    “Madam, we know full well that the only difference between you and a two-bit whore is that the latter is more honest.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  89. CSK says:

    @grumpy realist:

    True. But think about it for a moment: I’m sure Melania works very, very hard for the truly stomach-turning work she has to do. Can you imagine…oh, never mind.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  90. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @stonetools:

    I wouldn’t call her a terrible campaigner. I’d call her an uber serious policy wonk who has exceptional difficulty being folksy / charming that has been tasked with appealing to an overwhelmingly low information electorate. In a word – she’s not her husband.

    That having been said, when it comes to formulating political strategy on a macro level, she’s world class IMO. As talented as her husband is at retail politics, the behind the scenes stuff involved her far more than most would imagine. You can expect the next 30 days to be a painful experience for the GOP.

    From which they will learn absolutely nothing.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  91. CSK says:

    @michael reynolds:

    And I wish her the happiest of birthdays. Can you order some truly great take-out for the occasion?

    And…admit it, man. You’ll be sneaking over here sporadically to check for the latest eruption from the sewage volcano.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  92. CSK says:

    In an interview published today in The New York Times, Trump said that he hasn’t heard anyone telling him to drop out of the race.

    Is he deaf? Or have his flunkies turned off all the televisions, radios, computers, and other devices in Trump Tower? Or does he only hear Ivanka, Donald Jr., Eric, and Melania?

    All of the above?

    That penthouse on Fifth Avenue must look like Hitler’s bunker on April 30, 1945.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  93. dxq says:

    James, I hate to pile on, but you only think you are a Republican. The Party started walking away from you three decades ago.

    Trust me, once you see his laughable bullshit explanation of why Hillary is corrupt and evil and a big poopypants, you’ll see that he’s a solid GOP voter.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  94. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @stonetools:

    I suspect that tonight for Clinton will be about tactically goading him into entrenchment and possibly revisiting in some way that horrific audio. Trump performs worst when he’s off balance and his ego has been tweaked, so I’m of the opinion that the goal for tonight will be to insinuate that he’s a quitter (bait which he’ll be physically unable to avoid taking) and keeping him off balance / off message (which also isn’t that difficult).

    His greatest strength (his ego) is also his greatest weakness. When you’ve been around him as long as I have, you realize that he’s a one trick pony. Everything he does is a variation on the same basic goal – getting his ego stroked. Once you’ve grasped that, you can play him like an upright bass.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  95. gVOR08 says:

    @CSK:

    Can you imagine…oh, never mind.

    I can. I’d much rather not.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  96. CSK says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    “Play him like an upright bass.” In a campaign charged with raw sexual innuendo, that is a truly horrific image.

    @gVOR08:

    Quite.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  97. Andrew says:

    Clinton is running against Trump. Yet, Trump and his backers seem to think it’s Bill they are running against.

    It’s as if they are trying to comb over the fact that they got nothing to stop Hilary.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  98. gVOR08 says:

    @Andrew: It’s not a comb over. It’s a 60K$ hair weave. Nothing but the best.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  99. grumpy realist says:

    @CSK: Actually, the “Tits–fake or real?” is one dialog I used to have every now and then with my boss, back when I was working for a start-up. He used to be a salesman for breast implants (usually for after mastectomies) and knew exactly what the after-surgery results would look like. He said that once your eyes have been trained, you automatically start evaluating “real or not?” everywhere.

    Sizable number of waitresses we ran into who had had implants. Of course, it WAS southern California….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  100. grumpy realist says:

    @michael reynolds: Please wish your wife a Happy Birthday from all of us here at OTB!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  101. stonetools says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    I wouldn’t call her a terrible campaigner.

    I was repeating the narrative that you generally hear from the media & the Bernie bros-usually in the form “She should be 50 points ahead!”
    Well, objectively, she should-but in today’s tribal, polarized voting environment-and with voters like James and Doug-that just isn’t going to happen. Trump, for example, has a 40% floor-racists/xenophobes who are going to vote for him no matter what , plus some Republican leaning voters who are never going to vote for Hillary because reasons.
    Given this environment, Hillary is doing about as well as can be expected.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  102. CSK says:

    From CNN: The first question in tonight’s debate will go to Clinton, and it will concern the tape released of Donald Trump’s exegesis on the art of grabbing pussies.

    Well, if you have any plans for this evening, I suggest you cancel them, like Michael Reynolds, and lay in a supply of popcorn and your favorite potable.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  103. PJ says:

    @CSK:

    From CNN: The first question in tonight’s debate will go to Clinton, and it will concern the tape released of Donald Trump’s exegesis on the art of grabbing pussies.

    CNN is clearly looking at maximizing viewers.

    Otherwise it could have decided to start with other things before it all would crash and burn into a sh*tstorm drumpfsterfire.

    But. Yes. I. Will. Watch.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  104. CSK says:

    @PJ:

    Well, I suppose they’re gambling that the “debate” will go the full 90 minutes, even if Captain Donald Queeg is reduced to gibbering idiocy in the first ten minutes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  105. grumpy realist says:

    Giuliani trying to cover up for Trump in about the worst way possible

    So, dude, we’re supposed to elect as POTUS someone who doesn’t even listen to the crap that comes out of his mouth?!

    “uh, yeah, I ended up declaring war on Russia but I never meant to do so….” .

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  106. Mister Bluster says:

    Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly!
    Great Pic of the Kelly Replicant Body Double!

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/52-hours-and-counting-kellyanne-conway-takes-extended-social-media-break-amid-leaked-tape/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  107. Mikey says:

    @grumpy realist: I saw about a minute of Giuliani on one of the morning shows. I can’t even believe any human being, even he, could twist all logic and good sense into the kind of pretzel that would keep him supporting Trump. Yet, there he was, doing his best at what was really the most banal and inane intellectual tap-dance I’ve ever seen.

    @CSK:

    Who wants to take bets the viewership numbers on tonight’s debate blow the first debate out of the water?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  108. Mister Bluster says:

    @grumpy realist:..“uh, yeah, I ended up declaring war on Russia but I never meant to do so….”

    Where is your sense of humor?
    Saint Ronnie is laughing in his grave!

    “My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you today that I’ve signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwAntNGz9k

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  109. CSK says:

    @Mikey:

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the numbers for tonight exceed the numbers for the previous debate. I’d love it if someone in the audience stood up and asked, “Hey, Donald, is it okay if I call Ivanka a piece of ass?”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  110. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @James Joyner: If you prefer her to Trump, why not simply vote to have the strongest chance at getting your preference?

    Repeat after me: “my dislike of Hillary in visceral and irrational, and as a thinking and wise human being with a working brain, I can set it aside and vote for her.”

    Make this affirmation every morning and evening until election day.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  111. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @CSK: That’s clearly not fair! I think the apartment in Trump Tower is easily big enough that they may not ever see each other or interact for days on end. Maybe weeks.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  112. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @HarvardLaw92: I’ve played upright bass; it’s not as easy as you might think–first of all, you have to have really big hands.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  113. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Just ‘nutha ig’rant cracker:

    LOL, I see what you did there :-)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  114. Blue Galangal says:

    @James Joyner:

    We’ll see what happens to the GOP after Trump. I don’t know if this will be a wake-up call or whether the base will double down on the crazy in 2020. I’d think losing the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 elections would be a strong signal.

    Remember the soul-searching the GOP went through in 2012? How long did that last? 20 days, give or take? And Kasich is just as objectionable as any other current member of the GOP. It’s only that he’s had the unimaginable good sense to play this cycle very, very well. (Huntsman endorsed Trump. HUNTSMAN.)

    Right now the only Republican who’s talking a lick of sense is Ana Navarro and the GOP isn’t going to listen to her any more than they listened to their autopsy recs / people of sense in 2012. (Quick refresher: that post-mortem recced immigration reform, minority and LGBTQ outreach, and, perhaps most importantly, stepping outside the bubble of epistemic closure. Imagine where the GOP would be today, four weeks before the election, if they had tried to implement even half those recommendations.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  115. charon says:

    @Blue Galangal:

    (Quick refresher: that post-mortem recced immigration reform, minority and LGBTQ outreach, and, perhaps most importantly, stepping outside the bubble of epistemic closure. Imagine where the GOP would be today, four weeks before the election, if they had tried to implement even half those recommendations.)

    They have no means to do that because their voters control their party, not their politicians or donors. The monster they created has other ideas.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  116. charon says:

    @charon:

    And guess what? – A piece at Political Animal making exactly that point:

    http://washingtonmonthly.com/2016/10/09/the-gop-death-spiral/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  117. grumpy realist says:

    @Blue Galangal: Well, given that we’re seeing Hillary’s opps group embarrass Trump over and over and over with data lying out there that SHOULD have been picked up by anyone with half a brain on the Republican side…

    We always knew that the Right was infested with grifter PACs paying themselves fat salaries and passing minuscule amounts of money on to the candidates; now we find it wasn’t just the getting-the-word-out groups that were a complete set of frauds: EVERYONE in the process of ALL of the campaigns totally spent a lot of $$$ for very little result.

    And I’m sure the Right is dumb enough to believe the very same grifters when they come around again in another 4 years claiming to be able to do opps research on their rivals. Ah well, it’s a wonderful way to siphon up money that would otherwise be used for more harmful activities, so should not complain….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  118. al-Alameda says:

    @stonetools:

    Here is another victim stepping forward. Her story, in the NYT, no less:

    Unbelievable that this didn’t come out till now. And I’m sure there’s more like that to come.What the H. were his primary oppponents’ research teams doing for the past 18 months?

    Op-ed piece by Nick Kristof, who usually does human rights and foreign policy type of columns. I was somewhat surprised that this didn’t come up last night during the debate. Hillary showed great cool in not bringing this up as Trump was essentially calling Bill a rapist and her his enabler.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  119. Emile Prudente says:

    This web site is mostly a stroll-through for all the info you wished about this and didn’t know who to ask. Glimpse right here, and you’ll undoubtedly discover it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0