Thursday’s Forum
Every demon wants his pound of flesh.
Steven L. Taylor
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Thursday, June 11, 2020
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63 comments
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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The Florida headline of the day-
Group brought coke into Palm Beach County in toys
The
‘You’re taking all the fun out of life’headline of the day-New cancer prevention guidelines say to skip booze and this food
Beatles Forever
The Lincoln Project calls Trump the Confederacy’s second president.
Another day; another stupid fight.
Pentagon blindsided by Trump tweet on Confederate bases
Of course there’s a tweet from Trump:
And a stupid and offensive comment from the Press Secretary:
Does she think military bases are stockade forts and they ride out of them to battle? And what the hell does any of that have to do what what they are named? Right wing mad libs.
What is offensive to me is how these clowns and flag pin patriots have to hide behind the military for anything they do.
Too soon?
Bases named for Confederates changed to Afghan War generals, continuing tradition of naming bases after losers
@Bill:
They’ve been saying this at least since 1970.
@CSK:
I know*. Red meat and alcohol are no good for you. I rarely drink. The last time I drank any alcohol is 15 years ago at least. Red meat I can’t stop eating though with a Filipina wife its not done more then 3 or 4 times a week.
Everything is bad for us. As George Carlin joked- ‘Saliva has been proven to cause cancer but only if swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time.’
*- Yes but the Atlanta Journal Constitution has this on its front page like it is the most important health discovery since penicillin.
@CSK:
@Bill:
I knew a couple who assiduously followed the no booze, no meat regime for decades and got lots of exercise. Both made it to roughly actuarial age of death, one of Parkinson’s one with by a stroke. Cancer (though both had cancer scares) and heart disease didn’t get them, but something always does.
My thought, enjoy life and don’t worry about it.
@Bill:
I know; I followed your link. I’d say it was a slow news day, but clearly it’s not. This might be news to the staff of the AJC, though, if they’re all very young.
@Sleeping Dog:
Decades ago, I had an acquaintance who yammered on endlessly about the dangers of red meat. But he ate it. I asked him why, given that he considered it so lethal, and he shrugged and replied, “I like it.”
@Bill:
Living is bad for you, and a losing proposition. estimates are that 99.99999999% of all living beings will die. Would you play a game where you lose 99.999999999% of the time?
A friend of mine has sarcoidosis. he grills meat more often than anybody I’ve ever known. Every time you turn around he’s firing up the grill. I think his attitude is, this condition’s going to kill me before my heart ever possibly could, so let’s live it up! I wouldn’t trade places with him, but I do have a little bit of envy.
@Kathy:
Then you must concur with a US government employee nicknamed RAT* who strongly believes there is a almost 150 year old cow in the Midwest.
BTW is the subject of a short story** I just completed. RAT’s theory about the cause of the Great Chicago Fire. Something about Mrs O’Leary needing to hide her no good brother-in-law.
*- RAT is a recurring character of mine. He works for a covert agency that investigates these alien boxes that can change anyone or anything. Their drawback- They are demonstration models that only run for 3 days. Humans don’t know that, so they get into all sorts of mischief with them.
**- I had the idea for this short story for around 15 years.
@Bill:
Some trees are known to last that long.
But bacteria can last an awful long time frozen or desiccated, and be reactivated thousands of years later. So it’s possible a few will always be around, even while the universe undergoes either heat-death, a Big Crunch, or a Big Rip.
So what brings on an epiphany like this?
Has this man seriously contempated his behavior re: the involvement of the military in domestic politics?
I like to think I can take his remarks at face value.
Does Dr. Joyner have any insight on this matter?
Joe Jackson says, “Everything gives you cancer.”
El PITO is beclowning himself more than usual today.
First he referred to the Secret Service as “S.S.” any comment about this is superfluous.
Next he twitted “those who deny their history are doomed to repeat it.” that’s not just wrong, it’s stupid. Does he mean we’re doomed to beat the crap out of the South again?
@Sleeping Dog:
I suspect genetics and luck play a huge role in longevity. There are too many supercentenarians (ie over 110 years old) who drink regularly, eat bacon, and generally ignore many of the rules — some even smoke. They do all seem to be physically active though, so maybe that’s one to follow (easy to do, as being active is fun).
Plus, what’s the point of living a long life if you’re miserable? We all die anyway, why not make a good thing of life while we have it?
I was reviewing my monthly credit card bill and it reminded me that I’m a subscribed member of Outside the Beltway on Patreon. If you enjoy this site as much as I do, why don’t you chip in to help cover the upkeep and hosting costs? Here’s a link.
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@Kathy: Being the kind of guy who steps on a bad joke 🙁 , I would note that there is a distinct difference between a game where players lose 99.9999999% of the time and one where 99.999999999% of the players lose once.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Assume a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% probability that reincarnation can happen.
@Kathy: Probably higher than that. 🙂 On the downside, what little we know about reincarnation/not is that it’s a binary phenomenon and that even if it’s valid, there’s no evidence that people return wiser than they were at their last incarnation.
Public service announcement:
Don’t wear your keys on the outside of your pants. Don’t click pens repetitively. If you do, someone with Misophonia might have a perfectly reasonable response, such as murdering you.
what is Misophonia?
It’s basically a brain disorder that causes certain sounds to activate your flight or flight response.
@Kathy:
I thought you were referring to the apotheosis of Buddha, Christ and various Roman emperors. Reincarnation would seem to be either a 0% or 100% possibility.
Someone said yesterday that Trump’s choice for his first post-lockdown rally to take place in Tulsa (where the largest massacre of African-Americans took place nearly 100 years ago to the day) on June 19th (Juneteenth, the date of celebration of the end of slavery) is just coincidence, because Trump is too stupid to know about those events.
I think this underestimates Trump. Yes, he is profoundly stupid, and profoundly ignorant. But he is cunning, and when he learns something that stimulates his racist and power-hungry brain, he knows how to use it in a way that allows him to still deny he is doing so. I’m sure Trump probably doesn’t have a long-term knowledge or understanding of the massacre in Tulsa or Juneteenth, but if he learned about them recently, I wouldn’t put it past him to deliberately choose the date and location for his next rally. It appeals to the cruelty in him.
Another anecdote that supports this point: in recent tweets Trump is thanking his “SS” for handling Antifa.
@Teve:
Reasonable?! What are you trying to tell us, Teve?
a QAnoner is Going to be in the next Congress.
@Monala:
Oh, it gets better:
Trump poised to accept GOP nod in Jacksonville, Fla., on 60th anniversary of ‘Ax Handle Saturday’
@Kingdaddy:
Yep. The death rate for humans remains 100%. Exactly the same as the death rate 10,000 years ago, 1000 years ago, 100 years ago, and last week. We live, we die. Every single one of us.
There’s my bit of cheer!
@Scott: okay, you try to find a place in America where violence wasn’t done to black people by white people.
Now this is funny. Even copy + paste is too hard for the GOP:
G.O.P. Platform, Rolled Over From 2016, Condemns the ‘Current President’
I can’t decide if this is incompetence and laziness, or the rogue efforts of a Never Trumper.
@Scott:
Is it bad that when I read “Jacksonville” I figured I had better read the whole article just to be sure it wasn’t the Klan who had the permit for that day?
@Jen:
Maybe they are channeling their inner Freud.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
I was going to express it as 1 times ten to the minus googolplex squared, but many people don’t get that, and it still seems way too high.
It can make for a good plot device, though.
@Michael Reynolds: Think of the implications for literature!
@Jen:
I’d like to think it’s a NeverTrumper.
I’m waiting in breathless anticipation for Tyrell’s observation on this: driver-says-leaving-nascar-because-they-banned-the-Confederate-flag. Enquiring minds want to know. (And get a load of the picture from Darlington–Tyrell’s favorite track. 🙁 )
Trump tweeted that “These ugly Anarchists must be stooped (sic) IMMEDIATELY. MOVE FAST!” He is urging Jay Inslee to take back his city NOW.
If Inslee doesn’t do it, Trump says he will. Mr. Tough did not reveal what his plan for “stooping” the anarchists might be, nor for how he might take back Seattle.
@CSK:
Have you noticed how he claims to have authority over state governors, but then claims he has no authority over agencies in the executive branch?
@Kathy:
That is exactly what I was thinking. A friend pointed out that he seems to have considerable trouble making up his mind whether he has or doesn’t have authority over the states.
Trump being Trump, he has to say stuff like this, given that he’s so desperate to be seen as tough and manly. What a sad little weakling he is.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
-Kevin Kruse
@CSK:
Precision air strikes. Practice for Iran in October. And some precision mistakes, just because he hates Bezos and Amazon.
With a Congress that already has Louie Gohmert, one more loon isn’t that big of a deal…
@Scott: I don’t have a problem with them changing these base names every so often. What I am having a problem with is that there will be no stopping some of these misguided people and groups. Next it will be Washington, Jefferson, even Lincoln. It is already happening!
There are many generals who need to be recognized. Here is my list:
Anthony Wayne
George Armstrong Custer
Phil Sheridan
George McClellan
Winfield Hancock
George C. Marshall
George Patton
Douglas McArthur
Dwight Eisenhour
Sam Houston
William Barrett Travis
Creighton Abrams
Curtis LeMay
Ambrose Burnside ( my favorite)
There may already be bases and forts named for these great military leaders.
Is there a difference between a fort and a base?
I had an uncle in Virginia who took me to Fort Belvoir and Fort Monroe. We wandered every foot of those historic grounds.
And what is so “misguided” about anyone who wants to change the names of these military installations? Do you know of any American military installations named Cornwallis or Rommel? No? Of course not, as American military installations shouldn’t be named after enemies of this country, like Bragg or Benning or Hood…
@An Interested Party:
I suggest a compromise: rename the bases after battles the Union won.
That way the history is preserved, and the treason is taken out.
@Kathy:..rename the bases after battles the Union won.
Fort Benning and Fort Gordon in Georgia are both named after CSA warriors.
I’m sure one of them can be changed to Fort Sherman’s March to the Sea.
If you really want to preserve the history.
@Mister Bluster:
Purely by accident, I once had lunch with General Milley while he was Chief of Staff. We were seated at the same small table at an event my company was hosting. He struck me as intense, very intelligent, very well-read, very thoughtful.
I interpret this sequence of events as his way of saying that he was tricked into participating in the event, had no idea what was actually going to happen, but isn’t going to call out his Commander in Chief in public. So he takes the blame, and says he learned something. I’m sure he did.
@DrDaveT:..So he takes the blame, and says he learned something. I’m sure he did.
I appreciate your response. I have no reason to doubt your analysis.
I could not get the insight you have provided on this matter anywhere but OTB.
@Kingdaddy:
Joe Jackson asks “Is She Really Going Out With Him”
@Monala:
I think Stephen Miller chose the date and the place because he thought it was funny in his disturbed worldview. On Juneteenth in Tulsa.
For people who thought Reagan’s ” states’ rights” speech in Philadelphia, MS was not blatant enough.
Miller conned Trump because Trump knows jack shit about Juneteenth and Tulsa’s ignomony in racial violence. But pitch a triumphant return to the battlefield and idiot Trump will bite.
Miller is Grima Wormtongue.
@Monala:
I think Stephen Miller chose the date and the place because he thought it was funny in his disturbed worldview. On Juneteenth in Tulsa.
For people who thought Reagan’s ” states’ rights” speech in Philadelphia, MS was not blatant enough.
Miller conned Trump because Trump knows jack shit about Juneteenth and Tulsa’s ignomony in racial violence. But pitch a triumphant return to the battlefield and idiot Trump will bite.
Miller is Grima Wormtongue.@
@de stijl:
Sorry.
Please delete dupe. Not intended.
Please delete this too as well.
Sorry to lay clean up duty on you folks.
@Tyrell:
Would you be cool to renaming Fort Bragg as Fort Turner after Nat Turner?
Dude punched above his weight.
@CSK:
I have major respect for both the live healthy lifestyle folks and the booze swilling cig smoking folks.
No one here gets out alive.
I tempermentally side with the latter. Not a political statement but that is the way my brain interprets this world.
@Teve:
Or for that matter, a place in America where violence wasn’t done to indigenous people by white people. Or to Asian people by white people. Or to white people by white people (oddly enough, statistically this is the most common).
It would seem that violence and white people are closely linked.
@de stijl: Turner had some sort of divine religious experience that he said told him to go out and massacre innocent civilians, including women and children. Back in the 1970s, misguided individuals tried to rehabilitate his legacy. No. As bad or worse than Charlie Manson.
@Just nutha ignint cracker: Actually, Darlington is not my favorite track, Rockingham was, but they closed it. Charlotte is good. I saw some great races and drivers there. Usually, it was Richard Petty (the King), David Pearson (Silver Fox) or Cale Yarborough (Timmonsville Tiger) winning when I went there. As far as the flag goes, I don’t see the NASCAR officials wading into the infield confiscating caps, shirts, belt buckle, truck tags, or peeling stickers off of trucks. NASCAR has been on the way down for years. TV ratings have plummeted and many tracks took out grandstands. Some great drivers retired, and NASCAR got away from its base and roots. I haven’t been to a major race in years, just local short tracks. Sometimes I will watch one on tv. I don’t get excited about the drivers these days. They all seem to look and act the same.
I have seen more of those flags in the past two days than I have in years: trucks, yards, car stickers, store windows. The “Don’t Tread On Me”, Betsy Ross flag, and the police flag are in abundance now.
Next thing will be misguided people trying to remove the US flag, which some have already tried to do.
@Tyrell: So you’re okay with the dozen or so Confederate flags (and no national ones, from what I could see–although I’m fine with not having the USA and the CSA mixed together). Good to know.
@Just nutha ignint cracker: No, I am not a Confederate flag person. I don’t have one and didn’t have one in ’67. I think it is kind of silly the flap of today and that people are spending money on these. I have one US flag that flew over the capitol for one day back in 1987. I have two other flags in cases. One was on my father’s casket, the other on an uncle’s casket, who is buried in Arlington. I had nine uncles. Seven served in WWII. My favorite flag is the 7th Cavalry flag of Custer. I have a #43 flag (Richard Petty) and a #3 flag (Dale Earnhardt). My yard flag: LA Dodgers! I am actually considering going to the “brickyard” for the 500 on August 23. I have never been to Indy, but I went to a USAC race in Atlanta long ago. Mario Andretti won easily. Sadly, back then great drivers were getting killed and injured regularly in the car races. Safety now is light years ahead.
On my list of favorite generals, none were Confederate. But some of the Confederate officers and soldiers rejoined the army after the Civil War was over, seeing action in the Western conflicts and the Spanish-American War. See General Fitzhugh Lee.
@Tyrell:
The notion of a possible Fort Turner is upsetting, repulsive, and blasphemous to you.
Think this through.
You can do this. I have faith.