Banning Ron Paul Supporters
RedState‘s recent decision to ban those with new accounts from “shill[ing] for Ron Paul in any way shape, form or fashion” has understandably drawn a strong reaction, including condemnations from conservative Republicans like Ed Morrissey and David All, who’ve criticized RedState for close-mindedness and short-sightedness.
Erick Erickson has weighed in to clarify RedState‘s reasoning.
I have a world of respect for Captain Ed and recognize the value in the high minded discussions that Captain Ed and his commenters regularly engage in. But I think RedState is a different case. Ed is one high minded blogger. RedState is a community of bloggers of various minds and opinions and the community consensus was that we needed to do something dramatic against the Code Pink and Neo-Nazi lurkers who support Ron Paul and come to RedState.
And let’s be clear, there are a lot of decent Ron Paul supporters who are welcome here. But we’ve been overrun by the retarded vulture fringe who just drop by to yell about the Zionist Conspiracy to shut Ron Paul out. And I make no exaggeration in saying that. Today, I got my favorite piece of email so far. It said “I smell Hebrews.” That sums up the sentiment of the folks we’ve tossed.
He provides several examples of hateful emails from Paul supporters or those posing as same.
Most of us who have open comment forums and have posted on Paul have experienced the same kind of thing as Erick although, at OTB at least, I haven’t gotten a lot of anti-Semitic comments. What I have had — with Paul posts much more so than those for any other candidate — is a lot of what I refer to as “drive by” comments: Long, typically link-filled, comments pasted into any post mentioning Paul from people who are not regular readers. Generally, these people post the same boilerplate all over the blogophere and various political fora to get the message out.
So long as that remains the case, I’m inclined to continue to treat Ron Paul supporters like any other commenters: They’re welcome so long as they actually discuss the content of the post and otherwise abide by OTB’s comments policy. Violators have their comments deleted and replaced with a notice that they were in violation of site policies and instructions on how to buy advertising. But, like Ed, I’m running a single blog, not a giant community forum. A blanket ban may well be RedState‘s only recourse.
DailyKos did something similar a while back with Cindy Sheehan and her supporters, for similar reasons. Both are, above all, partisan and ideological activist communities trying to promote a specific agenda. They’re not in the business of sponsoring free-for-alls.
If you really believe that non-supporters of Ron Paul don’t post hateful comments as well, then you are rather naive.
Why the double standard?
What exactly do Hebrews smell like?
I’m Jewish so I can’t smell my own stench becuase its always been with me.
I would love to know what I smell like to the radical Ron Paulites.
Jew-liani likes how I smell.
I am a Ron Paul supporter and I agree that our group, like all, have a “bad apple” section. Unfortunately the message of liberty and smaller government is very appealing to people that live on the fringe of main-stream society. Pot smokers and tax evaders love Ron Paul’s message and love telling people about it. However, there are MANY people from the main-stream world that are getting a clearer picture of Ron Paul’s message and are jumping onboard. I wish that we could somehow talk sense into the fringe group and get them to stop posting and simply hand out official campaign literature. But we can’t. If you will remember though, Ronald Reagan also seemed to support the same crowd. I’m sure he was also loved by some real “moonbats”. I wish that people would stop using the whackiness of some of the supporters to suggest that Ron Paul is crazy. Just because a small group of vocal supporters are crazy it does not mean that he is. I urge everyone to go to the official web-site and do a little research on this honorable patriot instead of “learning” about him from some of the folks that are out there (and probably don’t even know much about him)..
i wouldn’t buy into that. i’m a paul supporter and i’m not anti-semetic at all and neither are anyone in my ronpaul meetup group, check out http://www.jews4ronpaul.org my guess is that particular person a)doesnt exist and was made up by the redstate guy or b)is 1 extremist and not a true representation of most paul supporters or c) is one of those stormfront guys trying to descredit the campaign
Please do not believe this nonsense that either Ron Paul or a large number of his supporters are racist or anti-semite. It’s simply not true. Unfortunately there are neo-nazi groups in this world. They existsed before Ron Paul. Ron Paul cannot be blamed that the message of liberty and smaller government is an attractive message to people that already hate the governemt. Ron Paul is not a racist or anti-semite. He DOES believe that the federal government should not be providing money to countries around the world. That includes Isreal. However, his view on this is neither racist or biast. He does not agree with this type of spending for ANY country regardless or race or religion. It’s not fair to characterize him as anti-semite simply because his fiscal views do not mesh with someone that beleives the US should provide billions of dollars a year to Isreal. If you believe that it IS fair to do so, you must then also support calling someone a racist for believing that “hate crimes” and affirmative action are inherantly “revese” racism and absolutely unconstitutional.
I accidently posted the last message “Please do not believe this nonsense…” using Tim Lastic’s name. I had copied his name from his post so that I could reply to him. I apparently botched it…
Perhaps James needs to implement some kind of anti-troll filter, like having a captcha that uses an inside joke that you have to ‘get’ in order to post. Or earn posting rights by placing in the top tier of a caption contest or Triumph impersonation.
I have been reading Redstate for the past few months. Why? The same reason I just read your blog. I can’t get any news about the canidate I’m supporting from the television so I use Google News. Like your post, Redstate posts get listed as well.
Redstate pretends to be for suporting republican canidates, but they are not. I have seen over and over again, long before the ban, the RS moderators and regulars attack and ban Paul supporters for no other reason than having noninterventionalist foriegn policy views.
The “ban” is BOGUS. Think about it for a second. How could it POSSIBLY be easier to delete ALL Ron Paul supporters accounts and posts than it is to delete offensive ones?
They have no problem whatsoever if you put up nasty and completely inaccurate posts about Paul, but say you support him? YOU’RE GONE!
Try it and see.
Every Republican, no matter who you support, should be infuriated with this type of behaviour. It is blatent dishonesty and only does more to hurt the cause of democracy and the party.
There is also plenty of reason to believe that the “offensive posts” they are complaining about are SELF-MANUFACTURED. Here is a comment from another blog writen by a Redstater that I have seen on there many times.
Well, we are now sure what is going on.
Oh and the Sheehan arument? This is on National Journal:
The only “administrative headache” was banning all those people that kept winning the debates with their neocon regulars. Paul is “seen as trouble” because he offers a real choice for real conservatives.
RedState bans people for the sheer joy of it; it’s a fundamental insight into what kind of people they are. This Paul bit is no surprise.
“So long as that remains the case, I’m inclined to continue to treat Ron Paul supporters like any other commenters: They’re welcome so long as they actually discuss the content of the post and otherwise abide by OTB’s comments policy. Violators have their comments deleted and replaced with a notice that they were in violation of site policies and instructions on how to buy advertising.”
Thanks for being fair about it. As a Paul-unteer I can’t ask for anythign better. 🙂
In the interests of keeping our perjoratives straight–“Wingnuts” would support Reagan, a Republican. “Moonbats” support Democrats.
I have gotten politically active back in September, when I heard about RP and did some research on the man. I have been a voter for 30 plus years now. The last few years I had become so apathetic and uninterested in our system that I pretty much had just thrown up my hands. I had nothing but disdain for our politicians, I now have that same disdain for our corporate mainstream media. They seem to relish in the fact that they can marginalize and disrespect this good man. He has done nothing but acquire an impeccable public service record with his 10 terms in congress and spent a whole other part of his life being an honored obsetrician. How many of us have had or will have such an honorable life? Yet there are those out there that spit upon this good man and drag his name through the mud. It’s pitiful and digusting. I have been all over the internet blogging about RP and reading hundreds upon hundreds of anti and pro-RP comments. I have never, never, never read a comment posted by a pro-RP supporter that even comes close to what the Red State claims they have gotten from “Ronbots” or “Paulies” or whatever other mis-labels you will attach to us. You want to read some real idiocy? Go to their site now and read the comments since the “spamming ronbots” have been dismissed. I read embellishments and smears. You want a real profile of Ron Paul supporters? Go to the DailyPaul site. You’ll get an education there, and not just about Ron Paul. I learn something new everyday being part of this campaign. I am part of a small meetup group here in Fort Wayne and attended the rally in Chicago. I have yet to meet any crazy people or loonies or certifiably insane supporters. All of the folks I meet are well read, educated, courteous, thoughtful, patriotic, concerned for their country, worried about their kid’s future and passionate about Ron Paul. These record millions of dollars that RP has raised come from hard working American’s dwindeling paychecks. Not corporate money or special interest groups. You folks that bash and ridicule RP should thank him for much of the legislation he has introduced into congress over the last 10 terms, he had YOU and YOUR families in mind, weather you like that or not. Red State is not as big of a fish as they think they are or others would have them think. Their topics and comments leave a lot to be desired anyway. No biggie to us. It’s just another shun and slam, hell, we’ve been dealing with that treatment for months.
I’m not gonna say it….I’m not gonna say it….I’m not gonna say it….I’m not gonna say it….I’m not gonna say it….I’m not gonna say it….I’m not gonna say it….I’m not gonna say it….
By the way, James… I’ve dropped the hammer on them at my place as well. Since I dropped the spam filters on them, my mailbox volume has been cut by half on a daily basis. Most of what I’ve been sent, appears to be a group effort… many different addresses, same text, same mail server.
I’ve tried engaging these people, both on the site and via mail, on occasion; I have removed both for my system. It does no good whatsoever. If these people were affected by fact, discussing something with them might be fruitful. The fact of the matter is they don’t want discussion they want domination of the medium. Damned if I’m going to let that happen on a medium I’m paying for.
It’s interesting to see how a small group with the ability to get listed on a web search can ban our favorite Statesman and immediately make the New York Times. The MSM is out to wreck the Ron Paul campaign, and Red State, a gaggle of “pro-war” chicken-hawks, is happy to help out.
This has been my experience with Redstate also. Strict ideological guidelines with little dissent permitted.
I believe Kos banned Sheehan because she was planning to run against Nancy Pelosi as an independent. Kos has said from the beginning his site was created with the primary mission of electing dems only.
Funeral protesters sued by Father of Fallen Hero
There are many events that occur in our country where I am supposed to just shut up and take it because of other’s First Amendmen right, but I must not remain silent for this. As you are aware, there is a ‘so-called church group called the Westboro baptist church’ that protests our brave men and women when their families are at their most vuneralble[…]
(PS. I couldn’t trackback. 😉 )
It is an unfortunate puzzle because if there is any really appropriate intellectual discussion for a moderate forum like this one, it might be a look at the GOP’s drift away from its small government principles that a libertarian candidate brings back to the table. If elections weren’t important it would be pretty laughable that many yes-men on Republican side don’t even want to hear what Paul has to say about *anything* just because of his view on Iraq. Quite a puzzle that we live in a country where everyone always answers the poll question saying the country is on the wrong track and then they don’t want to be open-minded about any new ideas. I think it would be tremendously good for the GOP if a libertarian became a serious contender and made more people think.
As for notion of a pro-Israel conspiracy against Paul, heh. Paulbots, when was the last time Jewish voters had a big say in a national GOP primary? 78% of Jews voted for Kerry in 2004. Plus, I would bet reasonable money that if these Jewish Kerry voters had to pick the next President from the GOP crowd, Paul would finish at or near the top.
I simply visited the site, asked a few comparitive questions about candidates, mentioned why I supported Ron Paul, and was banned. At first re-visit attempt, I thought it was some kind of computer issue. After re-registering and again, politely discussing issues and mentioning why I supported Ron Paul, banned again.
No true conservative can be against free speach.
It’s a broken record with blogs and particulary the MSM on taking about fringe elements rather than comment about RP supporters hard numbers. Meetup members, donations, people on the street, etc.
The biggest joke is of course RedState’s effort for the MSM to carry stories about their site being “conservative and influencial.” Come on! Anyone seen the low website stats to RedState or the poor quality of gray matter used by their members’ posts? FreeRepublic has many more members and maybe an I.Q. point or two higher in comments section.
The Red State boys actually invited us Paulites over in a what a appeared to be a high minded magnanimous gesture. They must have felt a need to gently show us the error of our ways. When they started getting spanked in reasoned discussion they resorted to calling us derogatory names and banning us. For them apparently, denial is less painful than admission.
Citing the support of neo-Nazis or anti-Semites to justify banning RP’s supporters, or otherwise discredit him, is a convenient, yet ultimately unconvincing “guilt by association” argument, and further proof that our collectivist mentality, sanctioned by the government, must change if we are to remain free.
As another commenter pointed out, the groups mentioned above are attracted to a candidate who would seek less government interference in our lives precisely because they have first-hand experience with the oppressive policies of government collectivism.
While it is our nature to be indifferent or even tacitly approve when the rights of those whose beliefs differ from ours are discriminated against by the government, it is a dangerous and short-sighted attitude.
Indeed, those who hold unpopular positions in our society, as long as they are otherwise law-abiding, might be better regarded as canaries in the coal mine of free speech. And the silencing of their voices should be a sharp warning to us all that freedom and liberty are being curtailed and ours could be next.
Being free is not always easy.
In response to Grant: I’ve neaver heard the “canarie in the coal mine” example. I must say, it’s fantastic! You or whoever came up with that deserve a round of applause. I hope you won’t mind that I’ll be using it in the future…
Erik Erikson liar til the end. His outrages and slanderous claims about Ron Paul supporters are false.
As a child and grandchild of voting Republicans and a 24 year voting Republican and U.S. Army Veteran, I am one of those Ron Paul supporters unwelcome at the propaganda site known as REDSTATE. My opinion is REDSTATE does not represent true conservative Republicanism. Following the money at REDSTATE and I think you will find it is Erik Erickson who is “shilling”.
When I first stumbled upon RedState it seemed like it might be a good place to discuss conservative issues. I quickly found that if you mention certain ideas or certain words that it automatically triggers these guys to label you as a nut case. Just question the need for the Federal Reserve and they quickly ban you.
I guess somewhere they must have a list of beliefs that everyone has to abide by. It also seems like they must have a list of words and phrases that one can’t use.
From what I’ve seen, they seem like a bunch of mean spirited, nasty, insecure know it alls who really are not interested discussing different ideas. They have their story line and they’re not going to change it.
It’s a sad commentary that a site like that seems to get respect from the main stream press. They remind me of my 5th grader who covers her ears when she doesn’t want to hear something her dad might say that will upset her naive view of her world.
Who in the hell is Ron Paul?
Ah ha ha!
Best comment ever.
Huh? Where have you been during this decade? Blatent dishonesty has been the official policy of the GOP under Bush…
I’m a 2006 Republican candidate for Michigan’s senate. I, like many other “serious” Republicans, support Ron Paul because we are Reagan Republicans – and while many claim that title, Ron’s the only one whose lived it and earned it.
I have been riding the surf of Ron’s internet tidal wave and I have very, very, very rarely seen a post that is not thought out and specifically written to a site. Even more rare, in fact maybe one or two out of tens of thousands of posts, has been racist. Most of those seem more like the wackos that are part of the internet experience.
To claim either racism or paste and post spamming are part of the Ron Paul Revolution is just plain bogus and willfully ignorant. I believe the campaign will show this in 2008, when hundreds of Ron’s supporters place their names on ballots for state and federal offices. This movement has started and like Barry Goldwater (his son supports Ron by the way) inspired Ronald Reagan, I’m inspired to run again by Dr. Paul.
It’s okay. King George and General Cornwallis didn’t get it either until it was too late. Thank God for that.
I can’t help but think that if you are actually a senate candidate, and decided to come over to OTB to personally defend Ron Paul, that your chances of winning are actually less than Paul’s.
Michael, that is very stupid comment and typical of the crap we Paul-unteers have to deal with all over the place, and it contributes nothing to the conversation. Are you a RedState Spammer?
Pete Mackin, all credit to you for not abandoning good principles and getting involved and running for office. That’s not an easy thing to do in this day and this daze!
Please spend more time here getting to know the regulars before you presume to know anything about anyone.
I have nothing against Paul, or his supporters, I was just pointing out the fact that a senate candidate who feels like it’s a good idea to defend a largely unknown candidate on a relatively small blog either has his priorities all wrong, or has nothing to lose, or both. Either way, it doesn’t speak well of his campaign and it’s chances of winning.
Oh, and if you want anybody to take you seriously, stop calling yourselves Paul-unteers, nobody is going to follow a walking pun.
Yawn. Is that all you got?
I prefer “Paul-unteer” because it accurately represents what I am: a volunteer for Dr. Paul. You think it’s punny, and that’s your opinion. And I think you’re wrong.
As for your criticism of Mr. Macklin, I think you put too much Downey in your spin cycle to backpedal like that. You attacked him for simply being here, not what he stands for or what he’s running on.
And I think the blog owners might take offense to your implications about their blog.
So your complaints don’t go anywhere. In fact, they don’t even start!
Of course it’s a pun, it’s a play on words intended to sound amusing. Saying your a volunteer for Dr. Paul sounds more like a mature decision, and less like you support him because it’s trendy.
And I don’t think I have to worry about James taking offense, I’ve been posting here for quite a while and have had many conversations with him. He has no delusions about his site, it’s good, we all generally like it, but it’s no dailykos in terms of web traffic. Senators don’t come here to make strategic appearances or boost their polling or name recognition. Certainly senators don’t come here to defending Presidential candidates with little or no chance of winning.
Didn’t we shoot down this living absurdity with pure facts way back in May in a different blog?
Another uniformed absurdity resurfaces from whatever hole they crawled out of…to OD again on more Trotskyite Kool-Aid, I guess.
The more things change…
Then maybe you kids can take this to one of those other blogs, because I don’t think anybody here really cares.