Barely Half Of Americans Believe American Muslims Support The United States
This is a pretty sad indication that the anti-Muslim bigotry on the right has resonated with a distressingly large number of people:
H/T: Talking Points Memo
This is a pretty sad indication that the anti-Muslim bigotry on the right has resonated with a distressingly large number of people:
H/T: Talking Points Memo
Did it occur to you that the Right didn’t cause this but rather the number of domestic terror incidents and the lack of Muslims turning in the radicals in their community? If four in ten Democrats feel this way and nearly six in ten Republicans it seems a common belief of both sides. I guess we are all bigots now.
Plunk’s right. If Republicans hate Muslims, it must be the Muslims’ fault! Why can’t they just go to church and pretend to believe was Jesus says like everyone else?
American Muslims should support our war on Muslims!
Fixed.
(Can you imagine Americans accepting the same level of collateral damage, particularly family deaths in Predator attacks, on a Christian country? Seriously?)
I’d be curious to see polling on other groups, such as Atheists, Catholics, Mormons and Republicans (of the tea variety, and plain)
Without some context I don’t know how I am supposed to cringe.
How many Muslims actually express support the United States (ie Answered “I support the United States” on a poll)? That number seems relevant.
By that argument, the Jim Crow south was not racist because segregation enjoyed wide popularity among whites.
I honestly believe that if push comes to shove, Muslims in America will not support America in wars against terrorists. Islam is so strict in its demands on those who follow it that there is no room for questioning its commands. Muslims may have scholarly debates and ask questions within the confines of the faith, but confronted by outside pressure, Muslims must follow in submission to their Islamic faith… that leaves no room for half hearted support. Islam means submission, complete and total, 24/7.
The statements and demands in the Quran are clear and unambiguous. Submission to Gods words in the Quran come first, second, third and always, above family, country, tribe, friendship and personal life…..Everything is pre-ordained by God and as such whatever happens is Gods Will.
The Quran is not tolerant toward non-believers or unbelievers and terrorists are carrying out the commands of God. There is no Muslim Reformation.
> I honestly believe that if push comes to shove, Muslims in America will not support America
I honestly believe you are a brainwashed pinhead. Everyone has an opinion…
@Steve P.:
There have bee remarkably few domestic terror incidents since 9/11.
And how do you know that there are all these radicals out there needing to be turned in? It seems to me that you are assuming facts not in evidence.
Anjin-san — It seems unfair of you to call John Jones a brainwashed pinhead. It may well be he came to his racism naturally.
There have been 2 domestic terror incidents since 9/11 by Muslims (Ft. Hood and the Times Square bombing attempt). The others were neo-Nazis, deranged gunmen, general anti-government crazies and at least one fundamentalist Christian. So that rules out your hypothesis that it’s based on the number of incidents.
Something like 40% of prevented attacks by Muslims were reported to the authorities by the Muslim community, often their own family members. I would be willing to bet that is a higher percentage than the neo-Nazis, anti-government and fundamentalist Christian communities turned in. So that rules out your hypothesis that it’s based on lack of preventative action from the community.
Same for every religion on earth. Any belief in divinity that would subjugate itself to a single national interest isn’t much of a religion. I’m pretty sure that you can ask any Christian in America, if push came to shove, would they follow the Bible or the Constitution, they’d say the Bible.
As a matter of fact, I’ll put the question to you, assuming you believe in some form of god: if push comes to shove, and it’s either do what your god says to do, or do what your country says to do, which would you choose?
No, but four in ten Democrats and six in ten Republicans are bigots.
> There have been remarkably few domestic terror incidents since 9/11.
Quite true. And more involved right wing terrorists than Muslims.
Don’t despair Plunk. Facts are unpopular with a lot of folks in this country, so you are on safe ground.
> I guess we are all bigots now.
Speak for yourself. Oh wait. You already have.
@john personna says:
Well, there was the firebombing of Dresden. A long time ago, of course, but that was our last war with a majority Christian country.
We run into this problem where any lying right-winger can collect money and start up a hate propaganda program, and too few will call them what they are – lying scum, and almost always career lying scum. Gaffney, for example, has been a right-wing loon for decades.
Also, that this is clear probram by the Right to find new ‘n*ggers’; the previous ones (blacks and gays) aren’t working as well, and the current one against hispanics, is causing backlash.
Remember when people asked if a Catholic could be president (or a supreme court judge) out of fear that they always had to answer first and foremost to the Pope?
And when the patriotism of *insert ethnic group here* was question in similar ways during times of war because they’d never fight men of their own countries?
“There have been remarkably few domestic terror incidents since 9/11.”
Is over 200 a “few”? Then there are the thousands of Muslim terror incidents in other countries.
“Quite true. And more involved right wing terrorists than Muslims.”
Quite false. About 80% of that 200 were perpetrated by Muslims, who make up about 1% of the American population. Do a little search on the Department of Justice’s website and there you’ll find these statistics, or is it “unpopular facts”?
Don’t despair Plunk. Facts are unpopular with a lot of folks in this country, so you are on safe ground.”
@Dissenter:
The key word in Plunk’s comment was “domestic” (i.e., in the US–which is the context of the poll).
@Steven L. Taylor,
On the list I am referring to, every one of the defendants charged with terrorist acts since 9/11, whether Muslim or not, is charged in one of the districts of the USA. They’re all domestic.
@Matt b
“Remember when people asked if a Catholic could be president (or a supreme court judge) out of fear that they always had to answer first and foremost to the Pope?”
Yes, we remember. Americans came to the rational conclusion that they had nothing to fear from the Pope. But can we say the same about Islam? I’m not so sure.
There have been 2 domestic terror incidents since 9/11 by Muslims (Ft. Hood and the Times Square bombing attempt).
I presume you are referring to the Times Square bombing and the Fort Hood shootings. How about:
LAX shooting at El Al terminal.
DC snipers.
Seattle Jewish Center shooting.
Underwear bomber.
Little Rock Army Recruiters shot.
Baltimore theatre shooting of June 2006.
Let’s also not forget CAIR, unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land case, urging Muslims to not cooperate with the FBI and other investigators.
My memory is pretty shoddy, but even I remember those…
J.
I’ve tried to respond several times, but I keep getting a message that my posts are caught in a spam filter. I guess I’ll try without a link?
—
Plunk lamented the “lack of Muslims turning in the radicals in their community”. As Taylor pointed out, one can’t turn in radicals if there are no radicals to turn in. But in the rare cases where there are radicals, the American Muslim community is stepping up.
October 2001: The conviction of “Portland 7” case was substantially helped after a local police officer encountered the suspects engaged in target practice. The police officer had been sent to the area after a local citizen notified police that he heard gunfire.
September 2002: Members of the “Lackawanna 6” are arrested. FBI first becomes aware of their activities in June 2001 when a local Muslim community member tips off the FBI.
March 2002: FBI become aware of a possible terror plot by Imran Mandhai (and later Shueyb Jokhan) after they are notified by an American Muslim named “Saif Allah” who attended Mandhai and Jokhan’s same mosque provides a tip.
June 2003: FBI receive two tips from community members notifying them “military-style training” was being conducted suspect by Ali Al-Tamimi. The tip set in motion an
investigation later leading to the arrest of the so-called “Paintball 11” in Northern Virginia.
August 2004: James Elshafay and Shahwar Matin Siraj are arrested largely based on the controversial use of an informant in the investigation. However, NYPD were first notified of Siraj after a Muslim community member anonymously notifies New York police about consistently troubling rhetoric coming from the suspect.
February 2006: Muslim community members in Ohio provide information helping to arrest and eventually convict 3 suspects planning attacks in Iraq.
July 2009: Mosque leaders in Raleigh, North Carolina, contact law enforcement to notify them of “violent, threatening action … considered to be dangerous” leading to the arrest of Daniel Boyd and 6 other individuals.
November 2009: Five Virginia Muslim youth are arrested in Pakistan, allegedly seeking to join a terror group, after family members told American federal authorities they went
missing.
April 2010: Senegalese Muslim Alioune Niass first spots the suspicious vehicle used as a bomb to attack Times Square in New York City. Clues from the vehicle and defused explosive immediately led to the suspect, Faisal Shahzad’s, arrest.
June 2010: Suspects Mohammed Mahmoud Alessa and Carlos Eduardo Almonte are arrested, after the FBI first receives an anonymous report in 2006 from one of the suspects’ family members. News reports indicate one of Alessa’s family members provided the tip.
Today we can add another one — while Farooque Ahmed’s recent alleged attempt to attack the subway system in Washington, D.C., seems to have been under the control of federal investigators from the beginning, Ahmed was initially brought to the attention of authorities by a “source in the Muslim community.”
Wow Chicago, looks like the Muslim community in America is a rich source for both terrorists and informants.
So all shootings are now terrorist attacks, Jay? In that case, we have way, way more terrorist attacks by non-Muslims than Muslims. Oh wait, it’s only terrorism if you’re a Muslim, right?
mantis, don’t play cute. You’re not cute enough.
Each of the cases I cited involved one or more Muslims who perpetrated their attacks in the name of Allah, “avenging” America’s sins against Islam, or some such. Well, maybe not the El Al thing — that was aimed at Jews, not Americans, but since it was at LAX, I’m letting it slide.
And I find myself wondering how you’re currently explaining the Giffords shooting… what’s the latest operative statement on that one? Still trying to hang it on Palin and the Tea Party?
J.
Each of the cases I cited involved one or more Muslims who perpetrated their attacks in the name of Allah, “avenging” America’s sins against Islam, or some such. Well, maybe not the El Al thing — that was aimed at Jews, not Americans, but since it was at LAX, I’m letting it slide.
So…terrorism or not terrorism? You avoid the question.
And I find myself wondering how you’re currently explaining the Giffords shooting… what’s the latest operative statement on that one?
No idea what the “operative statement” is. Sounds to me like the guy was nuts. According to you, it would be terrorism if he was Muslim, but not terrorism if he wasn’t.
Still trying to hang it on Palin and the Tea Party?
Never did.
mantis, I’m tired, so you don’t get my full attention. But to me, “politically-motivated killings and attempts to kill” is a workable definition of “terrorism.” And as militant Islam is as much a political ideology as it is a theology, I’ll call them “terrorism.”
I gave a list of Islamist-inspired and motivated attacks since 9/11, and it was hardly a comprehensive list. You wanna tell me which of those you wouldn’t consider “terrorism?”
BTW, what I meant about the El Al/LAX shooting was that it was within the US, and politically/Islamically motivated, but it was conducted by an Egyptian national against Israelis. It wasn’t targeting Americans or by an American Muslim, so strictly speaking it wouldn’t be covered by the King hearings, but it did happen on our sovereign territory, and that’s good enough for me.
J.
My guess is there will be a roaring silence from Republicans about the latest right wing terror plot:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/sovereign_citizens_arrested_in_alaska_for_alleged_plot_to_kill_police_federal_judge.php?ref=fpblg