Charlottesville Anniversary March A Complete Dud
White supremacists held a rally in Washington on Sunday, and almost no one but their opponents and the police showed up.
Yesterday’s rally by so-called white supremacists on the first anniversary of the “Unite The Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia that led to the death of a young woman named Heather Heyer at the hands of a white supremacist turned out to be a complete dud, with counterprotesters vastly outnumbering rally participants and the entire event breaking up earlier than planned due to the sparse crowd:
WASHINGTON — After weeks of hype, white supremacists managed to muster just a couple of dozen supporters on Sunday in the nation’s capital for the first anniversary of their deadly rally in Charlottesville, Va., finding themselves greatly outnumbered by counterprotesters, police officers and representatives of the news media.
But even with the low turnout, almost no one walked away with the sense that the nation’s divisions were any closer to healing.
Indeed, the streets of downtown Washington were charged on Sunday with tension, emotion and noise, particularly in the afternoon, as the right-wing agitator Jason Kessler and perhaps 20 fellow members of the far right — some wearing bright red “Make America Great Again” hats, some draped in American flags — marched under heavy police escort from the Metro station in the Foggy Bottom neighborhood to their barricaded and heavily protected rally area near the White House.
They were surrounded by a vast, rolling plume of counterprotesters, who hurled insults, waved middle fingers and chanted “Shame!”
“You killed a girl in Charlottesville!” one voice in the crowd yelled, referring to Heather Heyer, a woman who was fatally injured when a white supremacist rammed his car into a crowd of counterprotesters a year ago.
A similar dynamic to the one in Washington played out in Charlottesville on Sunday, where few if any far-right demonstrators could be found, and where the most palpable tensions developed between left-wing protesters and the police, whose presence in the city was heavy and, some argued, heavy-handed.
“The problem is, the only opposition is the police,” said Pastor Robert Lewis of the Hinton Avenue United Methodist Church, as he and a group of religious representatives stood facing rows of officers in an effort to form what he called a buffer between them and the protesters.
Only a handful of arrests were reported in Charlottesville on Sunday, including a man and a woman who got into a fistfight after the man saluted the town’s statue of Robert E. Lee. By early evening, the security cordon around the downtown area had been lifted, hours ahead of schedule.
In Washington, the mere threat of another large turnout from the far right, coupled with a large turnout from the far left — among them, hundreds of black-clad, masked and helmeted anti-fascist protesters known as antifa — seemed to indicate that the United States was not over its turn toward European-style politics by street protest.
It was also a return to the way extreme-right demonstrations in America tended to play out before Charlottesville.
The template starts when a group like the Ku Klux Klan announces a rally. Next comes news coverage, fevered and intense. That prompts a huge number of activists, police officers and everyday people to turn out, dwarfing what is often a pathetically small band of extremists in hoods or armbands.
That does not mean that hate is on the wane. According to the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism, there were a total of 1,038 hate crimes recorded in the 10 largest American cities last year, an increase of 12 percent from 2016 and the highest figure in more than a decade.
In Washington on Sunday, the far-right rally felt as though it was over before it had really begun. It was officially scheduled to start at 5:30 p.m., but the small band of extremists arrived early, finished their demonstration and left before that time.
Their effort may have been diminished by the numerous news reports published about the right-wing protesters who were in Charlottesville last year, identifying them and sometimes leading to them losing their jobs.
Another factor was a thunderstorm that rolled over Washington around 5 p.m., dampening enthusiasm and thinning out the crowds. As the rain began falling in earnest, the white supremacists began leaving Lafayette Park in front of the White House.
Counterprotesters in the park booed them, chanting “na-na-na-na, hey hey, goodbye,” and their mood soon grew celebratory.
Many Washingtonians felt a sense of relief that the event did not turn into something worse — and that the bad guys had effectively lost.
“I have no problem with them and their protest,” said Ianta Summers, a counterprotester carrying a large Black Lives Matter flag. “I have a problem with their ideals, and this just shows them, you can show up and speak, but you have to deal with the consequences.”
At the same time, some saw in the wall-to-wall media coverage a kind of public relations victory for the far right. “They are getting international coverage and profiles, and the bottom line is that exposure equals importance,” said Brian H. Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino.
Mr. Levin added that there had been “over-coverage” and “hype” in the run-up to the protests. “And at a time when the movement is in disarray and some of its members are getting knocked off of social media, it can, nonetheless, get a message out across millions of eyeballs on television and in print,” he said.
In the run-up to the rally, the Washington police had prepared meticulously to avoid violence. In the area around the White House, placards bearing the name of Police Chief Peter Newsham had appeared on light posts as though the nation’s capital were a dusty Wild West town: “All Firearms Prohibited Within 1,000 Feet of This Sign.” The rule was in effect from 6 a.m. to midnight.
The weapons ban, justified by a section of District of Columbia code, echoed a similar move by the New Orleans police last year as they prepared for a showdown between left and right over a plan to remove Confederate statues there.
Just as importantly, the Washington police kept the two factions strictly separated throughout the afternoon, using barricades, their bodies and motorcycles.
Most of the counterprotesters could not even catch sight of the brief right-wing rally, where some of the roughly two dozen demonstrators inside their penned-off area held signs that said, “Protect the Endangered Species, Stop White Genocide,” and “White Lives Matter.”
Mr. Kessler, speaking to the small group of marchers he was with in Lafayette Square, said that he did not want antifa counterprotesters “using violence to shut down the speech of people they disagree with.”
He tried to account for his group’s meager showing by acknowledging that some of his fellow white nationalists were fearful of the reception they would receive.
“There were a lot of people who were at last year’s rally who are very scared this year,” he said. “They felt like last year they came to express their point of view. They were attacked. And when they fought back, they were overly prosecuted.”
More from The Washington Post:
White supremacists held a rally in Washington on Sunday, and almost no one but their opponents and the police showed up.
Jason Kessler, one of the organizers of last year’s violent and deadly “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, wanted to hold an anniversary demonstration there, but the city wouldn’t let him. So he brought his show to Washington, where he hoped 400 supporters would join him for a rally at Lafayette Square, across from the White House. Fewer than 40 turned out.
The group was met by thousands of protesters who filled their half of the leafy, seven-acre park chanting “Go home, Nazis!” “No Trump! No KKK! No fascist USA!” and “Black lives matter!” They drowned out whatever message Kessler and his small band of followers had hoped to deliver — and that was their goal.
For opponents, the day felt like a victory, albeit an often tense and angry one.
Samaj Calhoun, a Southwest Washington resident, came to protest the rally with friends to show they wouldn’t be intimidated by the white supremacists. Calhoun said she hopes the rest of the country watching the District sees “that we’re not afraid. And we can defend our city.”
City leaders and law enforcement officials were determined that the event would not be a repeat of the mayhem in Charlottesville last year, when city police and Virginia state troopers allowed white supremacists and neo-Nazis to clash in the streets with anti-hate protesters. Counterprotester Heather Heyer was killed when a man police say identified himself as a Nazi drove a car into a crowd. Two state troopers died when their helicopter crashed following a day of monitoring the civil disturbance.
A massive police presence Sunday kept the two sides separated, and outside of a confrontation between some antifa, or anti-fascist, protesters and police long after the rally had ended, there were no reports of violence. Police reported that one man was arrested after he assaulted a man wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat.
D.C. Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D) said last week the city would ensure that the rallygoers could exercise their right to free speech — even if what they were saying was distasteful.
“While we are opposed adamantly to what we are going to hear, we know what our responsibility is — to protect First Amendment events, to protect Washingtonians and to protect our city,” she said.
(…)
Kessler and his supporters arrived a little before 1 p.m. at the Vienna Metro station, where they were accompanied by law enforcement officers onto the rear car of a waiting train. After the group disembarked at the Foggy Bottom Metro station, a larger police contingent, including officers on bicycles and motorcycles, escorted them on a walk of several blocks past protesters who shouted and chanted at them. Once inside Lafayette Square, protesters were kept far away from Kessler’s group.
Critics, including two D.C. Council members and the union representing Metro employees, lambasted the transit agency for providing the group extra protection after having said last week that its members would not be given special treatment.
“Giving white supremacists & hate groups a private Metro rail car is so unbelievably wrong & disgraceful. Beyond the horrible precedent it sets, what does it tell the riding public & operators? Plus, it’s the exact opposite of what @WMATA said they’d do,” council member Charles Allen (D-Ward 6) tweeted.
At Lafayette Square, protesters continued to yell and chant, and some, including a small contingent of antifa members dressed in black, hoped for a showdown with the white supremacists when the rally ended a little before 5 p.m. Police acted quickly to spirit Kessler and his followers out of the area in white vans to the Rosslyn Metro station, where they boarded a train to return to Vienna. Fairfax County Executive Bryan Hill said police were stationed along Interstate 66 to make sure no one tried to throw debris onto the train tracks or cause any other trouble.
Antifa members vented their frustration at not being able to confront the rallygoers by lighting smoke bombs and firecrackers and throwing eggs in the direction of police. By then, a steady rain was falling, however, and the protest was fizzling. Most began heading home, but police kept a watchful eye as the black-clad group carrying umbrellas wandered about knocking over trash cans, chanting “Bust a window!” and yelling at police to get out of their cars and “meet us in the streets.” A confrontation between the protesters and police erupted briefly near 13th and G streets NW.
While police were successful at keeping the opposing groups apart, the effort came at what is expected to be a significant expense to the city for overtime and deployment of law enforcement resources. District officials said late Sunday they were still tallying the cost of the rally to the city. At least some of it would be reimbursed by the federal government, they said, because Kessler’s event took place on National Park Service land.
At the rally, Kessler spent much of his 15-minute speech defending last year’s Unite the Right rally and insisting, despite evidence to the contrary, that most of those who attended had been nonviolent.
Earlier in the day, Kessler spoke to several reporters at the Vienna Metro station. He said he and his group were there to promote free speech and to protest “white civil rights abuses.”
When asked whether he had anything to say to Heather Heyer’s mother, Kessler offered his “condolences” but said police in Charlottesville should have blocked off the street where she was killed.
Several days after her death last year, Kessler tweeted, “Heather Heyer was a fat, disgusting Communist. Looks like it was payback time.”
The fact that the rally yesterday garnered far more counter-protesters and police than it did participants, and that it didn’t even include many of the planned speeches in Lafayette Square that had been promoted prior to the event, brings with it no small degree of schadenfreude, of course, along with a sense of relief. On the first count, the combination of the events of last year and the rise of Donald Trump and the brand of politics that he has made a reality has led some people to fear that we were headed for an era where racism, xenophobia, white “nationalism,” and similar ideologies were being encouraged to come out of the closet and speak out openly due to the rise of Trumpism. While that is still certainly something to be concerned about, especially given the fact that the attitudes the President has about race and related issues has, over the past eighteen months, manifested itself in the form of policies that are, to say the least, deeply concerning, the fact that this march was able to garner a crowd smaller than, as Joe Scarborough put it this morning on Morning Joe, the line you’d see outside a Whataburger in Pensacola, Florida at lunchtime is somehow rather encouraging as well as providing us with a good opportunity to point and laugh at the pathetically small group of losers and wannabes that showed up in Washington, D.C. yesterday.
All that being said, it’s important not to simply conclude that we can move along and not have to worry about this movement, what it represents, and that the base emotions that the alt-right represents are not all that different from what Donald Trump has been preaching for the past three years. As I noted yesterday, Donald Trump rose to power by appealing to the worst aspects of American politics such as nativism, xenophobia, and the kind of populist fear of “the other” that has fueled demagogues of the past such as Father Charles Coughlin, Huey Long, the Dixiecrats, and George Wallace. Additionally, as a noted back in June, his candidacy and Presidency have led to what can only be called a mainstreaming of racism that hasn’t been seen in this country since before the Civil Rights Era. That genie is still out of the bottle and there’s no telling what kind of damage it can and will do before we get it contained again. This is why Americans of good faith must remain vigilant while at the same time recognizing that, as yesterday demonstrated, the good people still outnumber the haters.
Maybe if they had been given a private subway train, ten more participants would have shown up.
This is truth and Ianta Summers is wise.
Kessler has become persona non grata in the alt-right since Charlottesville.
These folks have not gone away.
They declined to participate. They learned that marching with tiki torches and chanting:
“Jews will not replace us
You will not replace us”
makes them unemployable.
@de stijl: Whocoodanode?
@de stijl:
Yep. Life is not 4chan and being a racist troll IRL means people aren’t going to like you. What’s funny online or in your echo chamber suddenly ain’t so funny now, is it? You’re a liability to your company’s image and in a capitalistic nation like ours, that’s more important that your right to get your hate on. You voted for people who wanted companies to legally put their beliefs first over your rights as an employee and wouldn’t ya know it, they don’t believe you’re a good fit for the company what with being so racist and all. Don’t like it, take it up with your corporate masters just like everyone else who’s had to fight for recognition… but don’t hold your breath, most Americans instinctively recoil from Nazism. WW2 imagery runs deep in our national consciousness and we’ve internalized that it’s just about the worst thing you can possibly be (hence using Nazi as a catch-all insult for “horrible person”).
You want to run around with your little tiki torches and ideologically confused piecemeal flags? Go right ahead, this is America and we accept protests of all stripes regardless of Trump’s attempt to trivialize them. However, nobody said marching wasn’t going to have effects elsewhere in your life and nobody promised taking a stand wouldn’t hurt. Nobody said you’d stand unopposed. Nobody promised you an audience, sympathy, respect or consequence-free behavior. Go ahead, haters – stand up and realize that everyone who agrees with you online is either just screwing around online or isn’t brave enough to put their money where their mouth is.
When individual Brown Shirts (that is what they are) are scared to be identified and sanctioned, we win.
When they know that marching at a Nazi / White Identity / “Unite The Right” event will mean social ostracization and unemployability, it means something really important – and that is that mainstream employers will fire and will not willingly hire an out-and-proud American Nazi.
That peers who want upvotes, likes, or shares will publicly shun and mock and deride you.
That is a new development, and entirely good. Shaming Nazis and making their lives difficult is an objectively good thing.
It means that Americans will not countenance Nazi crap.
This whole thing calls into a question a common bit of conventional wisdom: the notion that hate groups automatically thrive on publicity, no matter how negative.
@Kathy: Atrios posted that Kessler and his bunch did get a special ride, minus their riot batons. https://www.eschatonblog.com/2018/08/whites-only-cars.html
@de stijl: Isn’t that the reason God invented white sheets?
@Kylopod: They have long sought publicity, by any means, no matter how negative, being so marginalized it was the only way the could recruit the similarly disaffected. The internet changed all that giving them a space they could safely congregate and pat themselves on the back for how right thinking they were and fool themselves into thinking they were brave freedom fighters on the side of righteousness and that their numbers were legion. With the coming of trump they thought they were ascendant and that their time in the sun had come.
Turns out they’re really little more than cockroaches scurrying for the cracks when the kitchen light is turned on. Reality, it’s a beach.
Free speech is not free of consequences.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Bannon was Chief Strategist; Seb Gorka, an avowed Nazi, was a NSC deputy assistant, Stephen Miller (still employed at the White House) is the Immigration Whisperer. There is no subtlety here – it’s very blatant.
Extremist racism has been part and parcel of Trumpism since forever.
@OzarkHillbilly: What people came to call the “alt right” was essentially the marriage between white nationalism and online trolling, a hobby that depends heavily on the anonymity that the Internet provides. The use of anonymity in hate groups is nothing new, of course, and long predates the Internet; it was part of the basis of the Klan. But the world of social media gave people new opportunities to cause mayhem without having to worry about suffering any negative consequences. They think they’re sort of like the guests in Westworld, able to shoot others while being immune to bullets themselves. At least that’s what these trolls think. The problem is that it’s dependent on their real identity not being disclosed. So for example, the creator of the alt-right website The Right Stuff got doxxed in early 2017, and it was discovered that he was married to a Jewish woman (who has since separated from him). What gives them their power is exactly what makes them vulnerable–and what in practice limits what they are able to do.
@Kylopod:
White sheets won’t be used again because you have zero authority if you are unknowable in this IG age. Anonymous = No followers.
If you think you even want to tell a “hard truth” you have to back it up with your face and your nym and deal with the consequences.
White Sheets worked because everyone knew who was behind them and they were too cowed to say those names out loud meaningfully. Thankfully, that time has passed.
Brown shirts or white robes only work when the populace thinks they cannot withstand the assault.
White sheets only work when the people who own taxable property support your racist actions 100%. If the people fight back and are winning the PR battle, folks who own taxable property and support your ideals will melt away like ice cream in August. When the choice is profit vs. ideals, profit wins every time.
All that fuss for twenty one people? I would like to know how much this cost the taxpayers. These marches are now so common place and come usually with heavy costs for trash clean up, security, EMT’s, damages to public and private property. Add to that the cost to private businesses.
One solution would be for city officials to require all marchers to register and pay a fee to cover costs. They get a badge or bracelet. Anyone showing up without this is not let in.
The demonstration areas do not have to be city streets in heavy traffic areas. A ball field or unused lot would work: easier to control, clean up, and no blocking traffic.
These sort of demonstrations are an anachronism from the ’60’s. The use of technology would be far more effective and cheaper for the taxpayer.
It was reported that the news media people outnumbered the demonstrators – both sides. If that is true, there is some kind of lesson there.
Freedom of speech comes with responsibility, accountability, and viability.
@Tyrell:
If you do not realize that this is an actual thing, you are frankly stupid.
@de stijl: “Seb Gorka, an avowed Nazi”
Not true
It is amusing that the protest against the, as it turned out few, protesters chose a most fascist name. Nothing says “suppressing the spoken word” like calling for lawful protests to be shut down.
@KM: “nobody promised taking a stand wouldn’t hurt”
When I was much younger, “taking a stand” more often than not referred to holding a belief or taking action in a situation in spite of the fact that it would probably have negative consequences.
It’s fascinating, what details get… overlooked in the accounts of the event over the weekend. Here are a few things that got missed
1) There were maybe two dozen or so right-wing losers.
2) There were a lot more “counterprotesters.”
3) The counterprotesters’ most common chant was “No border, no wall, no USA at all.” (Please don’t question their patriotism!)
4) When the police (who also outnumbered the protesters) wouldn’t let the AntiFa fascist counterprotesters exercise their legal right to lynch the two dozen loser right-wingers, they turned their righteous wrath on the police and the reporters.
5) The only arrests were among the black-clad, masked people who, when denied their chance to peacefully attack the two dozen losers they outnumbered by a good 40-1, instead attacked the police and a few reporters who had the temerity to try to document their righteous actions.
6) Remember, the best way to demonstrate your opposition to fascism is to dress up in black, put on a mask, and go beat up those who you disagree with — along with anyone who might get in your way, try to stop you, or even try to document your actions.
One final point: you might recall the Bay Area philosophy professor who joined AntiFa, went to several protests with a heavy-duty U-Lock, and beat at least seven people over the head with surprise attacks, sending several to the hospital. He got his “justice” this week — no jail time, just probation.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Too many want the glory and social praise that comes with “standing up” while being too afraid to get off their knees. It’s really easy to say you’re for or against something but how many mean it when it’s their job on the line? People are afraid of loss and pain – they won’t take the hit if they can avoid it. We hold up heroes precisely because they were willing to do what others on’t.
I’ve mentioned here before that I fence. I also bruise like a peach. So here I am, little blond white girl covered in some wicked deep blue bruises, strolling around and getting stares. I’m given pamphlets and lectures about safe places and DV if I go out in short sleeves after a rough match. I’m repeatedly asked why I participate in a sport where I get stabbed by guys twice my size and weight that leave such marks. They think it’s fascinating but are unwilling to try because it might hurt. Thing is, I’m not ashamed of them – they’re the consequence of me learning a sport that essentially watered-down warfare (and having crappy distance but I digress). I get these because I participate in something that can hurt me but I think matters. I’ll easily be bruise-free if I stay home and do nothing. But doing nothing gets you nothing and I’m not willing to settle for a pain-free nothing if I have a choice.
Free speech isn’t the right to run your mouth. It’s the right to stand up, say your piece and take what comes because you thought it was important enough to speak in the first place. If you won’t stand for what you say, why should anyone else?
@Warren Weber:
Of course there’s more counter-protesters and police. Americans don’t like Nazis so you’re always going to be outnumbered wherever you go. But hey, think of it like cancer. The number of non-cancerous cells in your body *vastly* outnumbers the dangerous plague inside you but that fact doesn’t really deter it, now does it? Ask anyone how just a few cancer cells worked out for them. Also, find it curious you cite the masks since there’s a ton of pics showing masked alt-righties. To be fair, the masks seem to be home-made or a bastardize flag but it’s the thought that counts. One was even behind Kessler holding up a “white genocide” sign during his rant.
Chief of police in DC is saying only one arrest happened. Funny how with your claims of people being attacked, the police didn’t arrest those responsible. It’s not like they’re shy about protecting that thin blue line or anything. Also, DC is chock full of cameras so even if those few with “temerity” were documenting, there’d be CC evidence up the wazoo. You can’t possible tell me in today’s day and age of cell cameras we need cheeky reporters to show us the truth. Where’s all the bystanders recordings or are you telling me not one conservative happened to be nearby?
Here are a few things that got missed.
1) There were maybe two dozen or so right-wing losers.
2) There were a lot more “counterprotesters.”
I heard both these items reported by CBS Radio and NPR as it was all happening.
When are you going to stop lying?
What am I thinking? Lying is how you get around in life. Just like your Supreme Leader and Chairman of the Republican Sex Workers Party Kim Jong Trump.
I’m confident that you are “sitting up straight at attention” in honor of the Free Citizens of North Korea as he has demanded of his true sycophants.
@Warren Weber: “probation” for severely injuring innocent people? That’s not justice. He should have got 3-5.
“No borders, no wall, no USA at all”*
If that is the way they feel, let them find another country to live in – see how they like Venezuela. Why should their patriotism not be questioned? Sound like communists to me.
* New platform of the Democratic Party.
@KM:
You are a bad-ass.
Here’s the short answer to Mr Kessler and his sycophants. The human race fairly recently learned what is the result of listening to someone claim that the really big problem is that a certain human group (a “race” for instance, or “culture”) needs it’s special place and room to live in.
Something like 100million of us died after we listened to that crap.
The obvious answer to anyone claiming that from 1945 onward is a short trial and a hanging.
@KM:
My friend Art was a fencer – he was newish and technically unpolished and he knew he would lose hard, but he entered that tournament anyway. He got his ass kicked and it was glorious.
My god! So fast and abrupt! I don’t know the correct terminology, but they’re whacking and whacking, and then one dude goes !BOOM! at the other dude who backs up faster than a squirrel. It’s bonkers crazy fun to watch even for know-nothing newbies.
As he predicted, Art did get his ass kicked, and was eliminated after three matches – he did get one touch and I cheered like an idiot. He went knowing he would get stomped, but he wanted to learn.
I was very proud to stand for Art when he married Angie. They were the cutest couple ever and still are 30 years later.
@Leonard:
@de stijl: “Seb Gorka, an avowed Nazi”
Technically you are correct. He is a member of an organization that is overtly fascist and aligned with Nazis.
So, you’re correct. Seb Gorka is not an avowed Nazi. He is a cuck. He is merely a member of a fascist organization that was subservient to the actual German Nazis and ordered around like bitches back in the day. I stand corrected.
@Leonard:
Which sort of begs the question as to why you would defend the back history of Seb Gorka?
@Warren Weber:
Your complaint boils down to that the anti-fascists are better at controlling the narrative, better at street fighting, and better at street theater.
Do you need a “safe place”? A shoulder to cry on? Does your special snowflake self need the comfort of a service animal to mop up your cuck tears with their their warm, fluffy fur?
@Tyrell:
WTF was that? How can you claim to love America when you hate your American neighbors?
@de stijl:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/Sebastian-gorka-made-Nazi-linked-vitezi-rend-proud-wearing-its-n742851
I’m so bad at this stuff. Used to fuss over ’em on PREVIEW – but we can’t anymore. If the link doesn’t work (probably because the N in Nazi is auto-capitalized?) you know what to do. The article dates from April ’17, BTW.
Gorka says he wears the pin because it was awarded to his father. Reminds me of the old story told about Pat Buchanon:
Did you know Buchanon’s uncle died in WW2?
N0!
Yep. Fell out of a guard tower at Auschwitz.
When your defense is that person X is not really a Nazi, but merely Nazi adjacent and a wannabe, you should think twice before clicking on “Post Comment”.
@Mister Bluster: Pretty stupid assumption that I was saying that there was no coverage anywhere. If that was the case, then I wouldn’t have seen it.
I was speaking about the report here, by our host. Perhaps you could point out where I missed the mentions above?
@de stijl: My observation is that the fascists have some very helpful willing allies in the press, who are willing and eager to go along with the fantasy that, as long as they say they’re anti-fascist, they’ll gladly cover up the fascism.
@de stijl: When your defense is that person X is not really a Nazi, but merely Nazi adjacent and a wannabe, you should think twice before clicking on “Post Comment”.
Cool trick, bro. Mind if I try it, but with “Communist” instead of “Nazi?” That way it’ll have that retro McCarthyite feel to it.
Considering how everything nowadays is about finding Russians under every bed, it should make the people here feel right at home.
@Warren Weber:
I’m super dooper sorry that your preferred message of “I want to kill my neighbors because they’re vermin” lost out to a message of “I don’t want American Nazis to kill my neighbors”
Why, Oh Why won’t the MSM see that the powerless Portland street kids are *The Real Fascists* and report on that? Huh?
A really great story would be on reporting on the true feelings of the antifa – really subversive stuff like “I don’t want American Nazis to kill my neighbors”
@Warren Weber:
That was a really gnarly come-back. I am abashed, deflated, defeated. The Russian who lives under my bed is super pissed. I’m pacing back and forth trying to decide which window to throw myself out of because of my abject shame.
@Warren Weber:
Psst! This is a secret, but I am shaming you, and I am really good at it.
@Warren Weber:
Dude, you called me “bro”. Uncool, dude.
@Warren Weber: Click
Saw a tweet reproduced on a blog (balloon-juice) this morning from someone named Shoshana (with a beautiful brunette avatar):
So, how did the incel march go, fellas?
Isn’t that great!?
@JohnMcC:
You fell for a rhetorical trick. It’s super cool you actually did the research and answered @Leonard, but realize you don’t have to. The trick is that you have to “show your work” – that stating an actual, Googleable fact like Seb Gorka is a Nazi and worked for Trump.
They want to steal 30 minutes of your life by researching, composing, posting known stuff.
That Gorka is a a pity, legacy member of a wannabe group of LARPing Nazis is just icing on the fucking cake. Like genetically pure Aryans would even deign to admit degenerate untermenschen Hungarians into their ranks!
If you look for this tactic, you see it all the time. If I was better at Latin, I could give you a better phrase, but it is essentially, Agumentum ad “show your work”
It is designed to waste your time and to disrupt the narrative.
@JohnMcC:
Oh, and when you do use 30 minutes of your life researching known facts and providing evidence and proof with links to trusted sources, they will blithely ignore it.
Just like @Leonard.
I read it. Gorka wears a medal that was issued in 1979 to his father by an anti-Communist group that claims no ties to Nazism, and which Gorka claims to not be a member of. That’s not an avowed Nazi. That’s the opposite of avowing.
@de stijl: Why would I defend someone against a false claim? The usual reason.
@Warren Weber: Some people have never taken Communism seriously, so when they see someone proud of his anti-Communism they figure he must be a fascist.
@de stijl: I’m super dooper sorry that your preferred message of “I want to kill my neighbors because they’re vermin” lost out to a message of “I don’t want American Nazis to kill my neighbors”
You must have seen a different rally. I saw about a thousand people all pissed because 1) the police wouldn’t let them kill their neighbors, and 2) the media dared to show up to record a public event.
I particularly appreciated the NBC reporter who Tweeted out the video coverage of their news team being insulted and attacked by the AntiFa fascists. Funny how that didn’t make the newscast, but priorities…
Oh, and about two dozen losers who would probably go away if they were ignored, but since your side NEEDS their boogeymen, they suddenly become the greatest threat to Our Sacred Way Of Life since flouridated water.
@Leonard:
I would not have used the phrase “avowed Nazi” to describe Gorka, but your description of Vitezi Rend is a massive whitewash. The organization was begun by a man who was an avowed anti-Semite (his words: “I have always been an anti-Semite throughout my life”) and who collaborated with the Nazis during WWII in helping deport hundreds of thousands of Jews to the camps. The US State Department lists the group as having been “under the direction of the Nazi Government of Germany.” Gorka denies being a member, but his statement is contradicted by several leaders and other members.
https://forward.com/news/national/366181/exclusive-nazi-allied-group-claims-top-trump-aide-sebastian-gorka-as-sworn/
@Leonard:
Please offer verifiable proof that Sebastian Gorka isn’t a Nazi.
I’ve stated plain and clear the Seb Gorka *is* a Nazi and worked at the White House at the pleasure of our President. Prove me wrong.
@Warren Weber:
The 1959 John Birch Society wants its talking point back.
Why are you defending Nazi guy Seb Gorka?
@Kylopod:
I don’t normally sport Hungarian wannabe-Nazi paraphernalia I just like happened upon lying in the street. Gorka knows what that medal means and he wore it for a specific reason. Would you wear a Nazi medal in public? Why? And for what purpose?
Gorka is a fucking Nazi. Why is this even debatable?
@Leonard:
You could not be more passive here; there is literally no sentence that is more passive than this.
@Warren Weber:
I love that actual Nazis suddenly have no agency and are bereft of even knowing what agency is. That they are merely puppets chosen at random.
You chose poorly.
That isn’t my fault or my issue. That is all on you. I am not the one defending Nazis in my spare time because I believe in the cause.
@de stijl: My friend I will leave it up to you to do whatever you like with the trolls. When I posted that bit about Gorka’s silly medal and, having noted the amusing tweet, remarked on it here trolls were absolutely NOT on my mind.
I was honestly curious about the medal. Having heard about the ‘Nazi-related’ medal and now seeing it become again a ‘thing’ I looked it up. Found it to be pretty interesting. Thought I’d share.
If the trolls influenced my posts it was by inclining me to make fun of them. So: The ‘Buchanon’s uncle’ quip. And the ‘incel march’ tweet.
If I go after trolls it’s because I’m drinking again. And have been watching VietNam War videos. And I threaten to kill people. If you’d been here a couple of years ago you might remember; I made such a monumental ass of myself that other commenters were trying to promote a cage match for me.
I gave that up.
You go ahead. I kinda like what you did up there to whats’isname. I’ll distract the teachers while you beat the crap outta him at the school bus stop.
Still, the best move is to ignore the trolls. That’s what the Buddha would recommend.
@JohnMcC:
Yeah, you’re right, but it was fun.
@de stijl: You didn’t say that he was a Nazi, you said that he was an avowed Nazi. There’s no way I can prove whether or not he’s aNazi , just like I can’t prove whether or not you’re a Nazi. If you want to claim that he’s an avowed Nazi, it”s up to you to prove it. If not, I’m not going to assume he is on the basis of your word.
It’s not a nazi medal. The group was apparently founded after WWI to honor war heroes, then turned Nazi sympathizer during WWII, then didn’t exist, then another group started up commemorating the heroes who fought against Communism.
I was speaking about the report here, by our host. Perhaps you could point out where I missed the mentions above?
@de stijl: “I am not the one defending Nazis in my spare time because I believe in the cause.” I missed where Warren said that he believes in Nazism. Or are you just assuming he’s an avowed Nazi on no basis at all – I think you do that alot.
@de stijl: Yep. Fun in a sad way. Just be careful you don’t become what you hate. Speaking as someone who’s traveled that path.
@Leonard:
Oh, please. We’re not engaging in blind conjecture here; there’s a truckload of evidence that you have, for some reason, chosen to discount. Once again you’re getting way too hooked up on de stijl’s use of that word “avowed.” I’ll concede: Gorka is not literally an “avowed” Nazi (in the sense of openly professing to be a Nazi). He’s a covert member of a far-right organization with a history of collaborating with the Nazis. Don’t you find that just a touch alarming?
@JohnMcC:
You just tried to Nietzsche me.
@Kylopod:
When you wear that medal on that day you are avowing.
Seb Gorka, a literal, avowed Nazi was appointed by our President to serve as a deputy assistant; he could not get a security clearance. This is a really big deal and I’m sorry if my directness causes discomfort.
He and Steve Bannon are gone now, but Stephen Miller is still there.
You lose on every point, then repeat them even angier. By all means, continue. After three more rounds of this, you’ll be calling Ginsburg a Klanswoman, and by then everyone will agree with you. Remember that: you always sound saner when you make the story twice as dramaatic half-way through.
When did I lose and where am I angry?
There are many words here, in English, but I have no idea what these two sentences mean. Can you restate this?
You lost when you said that Gorka was an avowed Nazi and couldn’t back it up. You angrily doubled down when you said that he was a literal, avowed Nazi after not being able to show that he’s even a figurative, secret Nazi.
“After three more rounds of this, you’ll be calling Ginsburg a Klanswoman, and by then everyone will agree with you. Remember that: you always sound saner when you make the story twice as dramaatic half-way through.”
I was sarcastically sayig that if you keep casting your net further and making more extreme statements. maybe you’ll seem less nutty. I was encouraging you to keep it up. I was shaming you. I thought you were good at understanding this kind of thing?
Ha!
The Resistance that just can’t seem to resist their own worst impulses, can they?
@Mister Bluster: Some sources I saw were reporting the counter protestors turned and attacked the police and media.
@Tyrell:..Some sources I saw were…
Please provide links to these sources.