Friday’s Forum
No need to feel guilty, speak your mind.
Steven L. Taylor
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Friday, April 3, 2020
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62 comments
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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And what did Obama ever do to stop this?
This made me sad in so many ways:
Air Force Academy Eases Restrictions After 2 Suspected Suicides
The normal stress of being an Academy cadet
The culture of toughing it out, not seeking help regardless of policies
Of being a parent and receiving that call
And being restrained/restricted from family and friends
And a future of what might have beens
This is the best thing you’ll see today
NYT: Take Government Aid? We’ll See, Some Businesses Say
Well then sir, may I suggest you do so?
I’m going with A) “If I can’t wet my beak, why bother?”
@sam: Indeed, thanx.
The say it ain’t so headline of the day-
C.I.A. Hunts for Authentic Virus Totals in China, Dismissing Government Tallies
BTW, that’s the NY Times reporting there. I will quote just a little bit of this article.
Gee whiz, some OTB commenter pointed out exactly this could be happening to only get at least one reply that they should either take their medications or lay down or something like that.
WeWork founder threatens to sue after Softbank scraps rescue deal
Some people make it really easy to hate them.
@Scott: These are costs of “stay at home”: increases in domestic violence, drinking, heart disease because of stress and staying shut in, depression, drug abuse. People are watching their savings and retirement funds vanish. They are worried their jobs will not be there.
The governors are seeing staggering unemployment numbers and are pondering the destruction to their economy.
I got curious the other day after hearing stories about increases in domestic violence, what are the states with the worst domestic violence, and here they are:
Texas Tennessee Georgia South Dakota New Mexico South Carolina Oklahoma Nevada Louisiana Alaska
@Tyrell: You keep harping on this. What is your solution? Let people die?
@Teve: What, not Misery?
@OzarkHillbilly: In fairness to Tyrell, he seems to be simply calling attention to this. I no longer see him saying there is no threat from the virus.
So it seems that the Trump administration is buying up medical supplies and distributing them to select commercial entities, all in secret of course. And Republican political operative are suddenly becoming go betweens – for a fee of course. The military logistics who says he’s not here to disrupt commericial supply lines sounds like your typical faux-libertarian useful idiot.
@Tyrell:
So have you reconsidered your vote for Trump?
Perhaps you’d like to apologize to the rest of us for your tremendous lapse in judgement?
@MarkedMan:
When this was made clear, in yesterdays Trump/COVID Rally, my jaw dropped. Not only aren’t they helping…THEY ARE EXACERBATING THE PROBLEM!!!
This comment by Kushner blew me away:
But he did get one thing right when he said:
The blend of rank arrogance, and abject lack of self-awareness, is deadly. Literally. Deadly.
People are dying.
Those who aren’t dying are losing their jobs and their retirement savings.
And everyday this incompetent Administration stands up and gaslights Americans.
Who is going to finally stand up and say ENOUGH!!!
When is someone competent going to step in and take charge?
Or are we simply going to watch as this nation goes down the tubes?
@MarkedMan: OK, thanx.
Seen somewhere on Facebook:
A take of two countries…
* 6.6 million Americans have filed for unemployment, a 3000% increase
* Tesla has great Q1 numbers, delivering 88,000+ vehicles
Yes, we on this web page have agreed, money makes this easier to weather… But the disparity that this has made evident is shocking.
How quickly we have bifurcated to a country of the rich and a country of the poor.
I can’t believe that once this is over that anyone will still think that healthcare tied to a job is a good idea.
@Daryl and his brother Darryl:
Let me put this another way.
TRUMP CANNOT DO HIS JOB. HE IS SIMPLY INCAPABLE.
Will we just watch as our country is destroyed?
@Daryl and his brother Darryl:
In other countries, this is when the US backed military coup usually takes place.
For some reason, the US Military tends to lean Republican for an unknown reason… it’s not as if the GOP actually gives a rat’s ass about them.
@Liberal Capitalist:
I have to say;
The job numbers are from the last couple weeks.
Tesla’s Q1 numbers likely reflect business from much earlier in the quarter.
I doubt many people are buying cars right now.
The gist of your comment is correct, however.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Hear, hear!
Speaking of Boeing, there have been a few pieces stating the pandemic has effectively killed the B-797. Some add the pandemic to the MAX problems, but the MAX grounding by itself also served as the reason for abandoning the 797.
Briefly, the 797 would be a plane sized between a 737/A320 and a 787, with a mid-haul range but capable of flying economically on shorter routes. In other words, an improved B-757.
The thing is Boeing has been kicking the idea around for the past few years, and there’s not even a list of specs available. So perhaps the twin disasters of a flawed MAX and a pandemic are a welcome excuse to back down.
Airbus isn’t much better. they’ve stepped up with the A321 XLR (eXtra Long Range), which is selling well. But that’s a stop-gap measure.
Boeing has options. A modified 767. That model is discontinued in the commercial market, but the line is trying to produce military versions for use as mid-air refueling tankers (with tons of teething issues). Or a shorter 787. One was planned early on, 787-3 I think, but it was scrapped.
The thing is, for some reason airplane design seems to be going backwards. The 747 Jumbo Jet went from idea to testing prototype in two years. The 787 took over a decade. I think the reason is the software. There was comparatively little automation in the original 747 compared to today’s models, certainly there was no flight by wire then.
Unless slide rules and drafting tables beat computer aided design?
@Kathy: I find it interesting to hear him admit that Boeing doesn’t need any help from the govt.
@Bill:
I’ve been surprised that anyone took the Chinese numbers at face value. They never made any sense. You simply cannot stop the spread that quickly. As I’ve been mumbling from the beginning, I will not be surprised if we start seeing satellite imagery of mass graves in Wuhan at least.
I’ll further speculate that efforts to slow the spread among Uighurs and among native Tibetans have been less than exhaustive. It’s simply too good an opportunity for Beijing to pass up.
@Michael Reynolds:
I feel less sure stating the following but I am going to throw it out there anyway.
Honestly I think there is a 50% chance at least that this coronavirus was caused by some form of unregulated medical research or medical experimentation. I know there are articles out there like this saying otherwise, but well intended and well educated scientists have been wrong before.
Bill Withers has passed.
“Ain’t No Sunshine”…indeed.
RIP
For my friend Bailey who lost the love of her life a few weeks ago…
Lean on Me
@OzarkHillbilly:
Or maybe he’s trying to shame the Trump so-called administration for a better deal.
Consider he’s effectively saying “Trump won’t be hailed as the savior of the nation’s largest exporter.”
@Daryl and his brother Darryl:
I just saw that. What a loss. He was wonderful.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Wish I had coffee filters.
I’m using Bounty paper towels for #2 now. It works.
Actually works pretty well. Props to whoever makes Bounty.
Btw, if your store is out of TP and paper towels, check out paper napkins. Could work in a pinch. I now own two packs as a backup.
@Michael Reynolds:
I may be wrong, but my conversations with Chinese friends and colleagues during the Qingming grave cleaning festival left me with the impression that there are no more graves. Every body is cremated. So the videos of thousands of funeral urns in Wuhan and the long lines of relatives queuing to pick them up may already be the equivalent of mass graves. However I haven’t seen hard numbers or a comparison to normal activity.
@Daryl and his brother Darryl:
When Kushner said yesterday;
It was in direct opposition to language re: the Strategic Nat’l Stockpile on an HHS website:
THAT LANGUAGE HAS NOW BEEN CHANGED.
I find it troubling that our Government systems are being altered to fall in line with how an idiot thinks Government should work.
@Bill:
Go back and read the replies again. They said that yes, China is not a trustworthy source, but until you have some actual evidence your speculations are, well, speculations. And the China reported numbers remain a best-case outcome.
So now you have actual evidence. Congratulations on guessing correctly; now there’s something to discuss — including how the “best case” outcome has changed from China to South Korea.
@de stijl: TMI
@Tyrell:
This is going to shock you and is counter intuitive but Kevin Drum is right that we should be seeing even higher record breaking unemployment numbers in the days and weeks to come because it means our attempts to bend the curve/break the back of this virus are working.
Also, these business that are going to be receiving bailout funds, whether their owners are liberal or conservative, if they do not accept that the government tells them that for the time being the Gov is their majority shareholder (heck, the only shareholder) and when they get back on their feet the shares will be sold to the public at large as the GOV divests themselves from being the owners of the Acme Widget Company they can go pound sand and deserve to go belly-up.
Apparently, it was noted upthread that some businesses want the money w/no strings attached…well, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that is not going to happen.
The GOP loves to forget that Obama at one point was pretty much the primary shareholder in a car company (GM/Ford, both?) and when it came time for him to sell his shares (I know he was not literally the only shareholder of GM/Ford, but you get the point I am making) he sold them for a tidy profit and made a whole lot of taxpayers in this country happy. But…you know, for the GOP it was better to harp on about Solyndra and I even remember when Romney tried to hold a press conference in front of Solyndra as he was trying to get elected (but that back-fired on him).
President Trump should absolutely tell all those small/medium/large business that he considers his friends that if they are publically traded he will rescue them but is now the only shareholder. He can then tell them that when their balance sheets are looking better he will divest himself of all the stock he owns making us taxpayers a nice profit (and of course, knowing President Trump he will be able to pocket a little extra something for all his efforts to help them survive this downturn).
If the GOP does not do this a lot of Republicans are going to read stories/watch as a whole lot of money goes to waste by Execs who benefited from the bailout funds who took the money to go on a shopping spree buying 80 inch OLED tvs and rekindling their relationship with their favorite escort service.
I suspect if is not just Democrats that do not want this to happen.
@Tyrell: Wrong–those are the costs of a global health pandemic. Seriously, you evidently think there is a cost-free solution. What do you think are the costs of slowly watching each of your co-workers, a few at a time, be out sick for 3 weeks. For a few of them to be hospitalized and an unlucky one never return? Do you think society could function “business as usual” for 6 months under those conditions? Your framing of this problem betrays a lack of analytical aptitude. Its like an alligator brain where analysis comes down to three simple questions: Is it threat? Can I eat it? Can I mate with it?
Don’t be an alligator brain.
@MarkedMan:
Unfortunately, we are now in a TMI era.
Everybody poops. Everybody wipes. My grocery store has been out of stock on tp for a month. Needs must.
We used to mock the Soviets for this.
@MarkedMan:..@de stijl: TMI
I wonder if his assessment is complete?
@Daryl and his brother Darryl:
Who the bleep does the pronoun “our” refer to in that sentence. Earth to Kushner — the States are us.
@Jim Brown 32: Maybe you aren’t clued in on the right wing bandwagon. This has been a talking point(s) for a couple of weeks now. The idea is that we need a plan to open up the economy again. AEI published a plan (that included a lot of ifs, thens). My own congressman, Chip Roy, a lawyer masquerading as an economist, businessman, and epidemiologist, wrote a whole article in National Review on need a certain date to open up the economy again.
All the so-called plans, which include neither measurements or defined steps, actually assume that we need to sequester the vulnerable, for it to work. There is a lot of wand waving, magical thinking along with the undercurrent that we need the elderly to go away, them being useless eaters and all.
@Mister Bluster:
Still assessing.
Are “I hope politician x dies” statements condoned here by the larger community?
Dipping my toes with innocuous content. Feeling out the room.
@de stijl: As far as I can recall, I have never uttered such a statement, but that is not to say I haven’t thought it.* Regardless, without action it is merely hyperbolic speech by anonymous internet people and as such it bothers me not at all.
One man’s opinion, ymmv.
*I’m a divorced father, you do not want to know the things I have wished upon my ex or what my thoughts were when she finally went to prison.
The national stockpile is only as useful as the products in it, and it appears as though that’s not going well.
Rotted masks, broken ventilators, and damaged equipment.
Regarding China’s numbers–it has always been less useful to listen to what they say than it is to watch what they do. Everyone should have sat up straight and started to think about what was coming when they shut everything down and closed all factories and retail stores.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Not you. We’re cool.
There were some very assertive comments on Rand Paul is infected thread that, in my mind, went waay too far. Wishing for his death.
Taylor pushed back hard. I did too, as I consider that rhetoric unacceptable.
No one wants to be the scold. It sucks and everyone hates you. It is a super shitty role. You’re Mona Flanders.
I would prefer that I never have to scold here again.
This isn’t my joint and I have zero authority, but I can say “pay attention” when things go off the rails.
@Daryl and his brother Darryl: “Just the Two of Us” is one of my earliest musical memories in life; I was 3 when it came out. Every time I hear it, it gives me an odd feeling because it actually brings me back to that very early point in my life.
@de stijl: I’m of a mind to cut people a lot of slack right now. Everyone’s a bit on edge; we’re getting to the part of the stay at home period that is really going to start breaking some people, and this will manifest in different ways in different people.
My attention span has been utter crap today, for no particular reason. I’ve seen people start picking arguments over really random stuff on Facebook.
Long way of saying, I’m personally not judging anyone by behavior they are exhibiting now, or for the next two weeks.
@DrDaveT:
Well…in all honesty…it did sound much better in the original French.
@Jen:
People boil off stress and anxiety and anger in strange ways.
That so-and-so should die is a step beyond.
I am full on board for forbearance during trying times. Death wishes, no.
Because these are trying times, we need to think before we speak more.
@Bill:
Gee I wonder who that could have been? Who ever it was, he was sure insightful. Good call, Masked Stranger!
@de stijl:
Have fun when your sewer line backs up.
@Tyrell: This is like the third or fourth time in as many days that you have mentioned increased domestic violence as a result of sheltering in place. Is this a veiled cry for help? Are you a victim of abuse? If you are, I urge you to seek whatever help you can find in your area. Alluding to your problems to random faceless “associates” on a blog will not get you the assistance that you need. Go to the police or the emergency room or call the domestic violence hotline in your area. Even some Red States and counties have agencies and services that can assist you although I will admit they will be harder to find.
@Stormy Dragon:
Did not know that.
Thanks!
I will no longer flush the Bounty.
Why are paper towels an issue?
@Liberal Capitalist:
And yet, I am fully confident that there will be those who assert that very idea. The capacity to self-delude is nearly limitless.
@de stijl:
Toilet Paper is specifically designed to dissolve in water. Paper towels, napkins, tissues, etc. are not and can end up forming a giant mass of cellulose in the pipe somewhere.
See the following for a photographic example:
https://twitter.com/NeedhamDPW/status/1240293516384796672?s=20
@de stijl: From an item on the 11 pm news last night, paper towels are an issue because they don’t break down as fast in the sewer system as TP does. Flushable wipes don’t break down at all. These things become serious issues as the number of people flushing a paper towel/wipe/napkin/piece of dental floss/etc. moves from 0.1% occasionally to 20%+ daily/hourly.
ETA: I see others beat me to this.
@Stormy Dragon:
We need to get this out.
I am of the take that once it flushes, it ain’t my business anymore. That *was* the take. No longer.
A lot of people will be using nontraditional analogs for tp in the next few months.
If this hurts our sewer system, we should let people know.
I did not know this until you spoke, and I am a pretty high knowledge consumer of news.
Had just assumed that paper towels used as tp and then flushed would behave in that system as would traditional tp. Basically disentegrate.
If this is true, this is news that needs to be propagated. I have not seen a roll of toilet paper in a store in the last five weeks.
Everybody poops. They want a means to wipe. If tp is unavailable they will find a substitute.
OMG……
https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-food-bank-gave-out-thc-infused-candy-child-in-hospital
Beavis as Cornholio:
I need tp for my bunghole.
Is it a common reaction to want to throw things at the sight of Kusher? never mind the dumbshiz he says. A real Patton leading the force. Jeez, talk about demotivational speaker. He belongs living in van down by the river.
@Mike:
I need to approach this carefully.
Not a fan of lookism. Don’t hold with it.
Secretary Mnuchin was front and center yesterday. I have seen his picture and read his words plenty, but I had never seen him speaking live.
That was odd. His mouth movement is unnatural. Quite disconscerting. Facial expression.
Yeah, he’s a jack-ass who works for a greater jackass, but looks shouldn’t figure in. It’s petty. That Mnuchim looks like a puppet controlled by aliens is a very petty notion.
@de stijl: Mnuchin, Kushner, Ivanka, Pence….they all look like hosts out of Westworld/Trumpworld.