Herman Cain Says Jon Stewart Made Jokes About Him Because He’s Black
You may recall that, several weeks ago, Herman Cain said during a campaign appearance in Iowa that he wouldn’t sign a bill that was longer than three pages. It was, as I noted at the time, a silly idea, and Jon Stewart rightly mocked it a few days later:
Now, Herman Cain tells supporters that Stewart had racial motivations behind the joke:
I did an interview on Sean Hannity’s show on the way over here. I had been traveling the campaign so much I did not hear what Jon Stewart said on Chris Wallace’s Sunday morning show last Sunday. Where he was mocking my three page bills. Did you see that show? And then he mocked me with a, you know, Amos and Andy type brogue. And Sean said you didn’t see that? And I said no Sean, I didn’t see that, I’m out campaigning. And so they played the clip. And I said well Sean first of all if he really thinks that I’m serious about a bill only being three pages the joke’s on him. And I said secondly, as far as him mocking me, look I’ve been called every name in the book because I’m a conservative, because I’m black.
Sticks and stone may break my bones, words are not going to hurt me. I was on that radio show because a happen to be an American black conservative. I labeled my self. I’m an American Black Conservative, an A-B-C. They keep trying to put labels on me. I have been called “Uncle Tom,” “sell out,” “Oreo,” “shameless.” So the fact that he wants to mock me because I happen to be a black conservative, in the words of my Grandfather, “I does not care. I does not care.”
You know, I’m sure that some people have treated Cain like that because he happens to be a black conservative. It’s happened before to people like Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, J.C. Watts, Clarence Thomas, and Condoleeza Rice. However, Cain’s suggestion that there was something racial behind Stewart’s jokes about an idea that Cain himself now admits was just a joke is both silly and stupid.
Mr Cain plays the victim very well, doesn’t he?
“Amos and Andy type brogue”: I’m not old enough to know what that sounds like, but what Jon Stewart did was a “Herman Cain type brogue”.
Oh, so that was a joke too? I remember all his defenders around here writing what a good idea that was…I guess the joke is on them too…
Meanwhile, I wonder when the usual suspects who always talk about the race card will now see that even Cain can use that card…
Yes, it’s the race card. How sad to know it was in Mr. Cain’s pocket, and that he was so quick to use it seven months before January 2012.
I used to work with a woman who accused me of being a misogynist. she was completely unable to grasp the truth; that i simply thought she was an idiot.
as i said at the time…how many pages are there in one of mr. cain’s pizza franchise agreements?
So, essentially what you’re saying is that our society would be a lot better off if whites went around speaking “jive”/mocking the way that African-Americans speak.
Oh’ That Guy… you were tripped up by your negative stereotype of “the way African-Americans speak”. Jon Stewart mocked what Herman Cain said using a speech pattern that was VERY close to the way Herman Cain speaks. You may consider the way he speaks as “jive”… lmao… but that’s not the way a native New Yorker would sound, or a Bostonian, or someone from Louisiana.
You see, contrary to what you may believe, most African Americans quite naturally, have regional American dialects, just like everybody else. Of course, your belief that we all basically sound the same is indicative of your prejudice, not Jon Stewart’s.
Wow, I didn’t think Cain could end up looking less serious after floating the 3 page bill idea, but congratulations to him, he pulled it off.
Isome, nice try.
Stewart, a white male, was mocking the way that Herman Cain, an African-American, speaks (while putting up a fake campaign sign saying that he doesn’t “like to read”). Either it’s culturally acceptable for whites to imitate the way that minorities (or a specific individual in this case) speak, or it isn’t. You have to decide.
Btw, Jon Stewart had a little problem a while back: he had to be told that he needed to hire some African-Americans to write for his “hip” show. Apparently, on his own, he didn’t feel there were any qualified people of color to write for his lofty show- seems kind of prejudiced, doesn’t it?…
That Guy:
Stewart has never had a race problem and there has never been anything about his writing staff. Stop making stuff up.
That guy: Stewart does imitations all the time. Have you ever seen his show? (Your statements only start to make sense if you haven’t.)
Actually, @That Guy, you made a couple jumps to get to the race card that don’t hold true.
Yes, John Stewart, a white guy, was affecting Herman Cain’s speech pattern (more on that in a moment), to make fun of Cain’s position. But, first we should note that Cain himself is putting on that speech pattern as well — he sounds entirely different in the debates for example. And that is pretty normal. The speech pattern you are picking up on is based on a specific type of African American speech performance (namely Baptists revival Preaching). But it’s part of a larger genre of Evangelical/Pentacostal/Southern Baptist delivery — one that you can also find White preachers using throughout the south.
It should also be noted that Oprah and President Obama — among other well known AA’s — will shift into and out of variations of that “revival” delivery depending on audience.
So the “sound” and “cadence” isn’t enough by itself. Especially if it isn’t being overplayed. What you have to go to is the context. There was no parody of AAVE (African America Vernacular English) — no discussion of peep, homies, 40’s, thugz, shorties, etc… nor was there intentional shifting of pronunciations (shifting “ask” to “axe”). And while “doesn’t like to read” is something that has historically been an attack on AA’s, they are by far not the only group that has had this leveled against them. So that doesn’t really pass the sniff test either. Nor did this index any traditional racial stereotypes.
As far as hiring African American writers, I have to say that the worst (or saddest) type of bigotry is pretending there are no differences. It makes perfect sense to hire people who know and can write for a given audience. That doesn’t necessarily mean hiring any African American — that would be the racist assumption. What it does mean is finding folks who know a given culture and can correctly write for it.
Again, nice try, but no cigar… this is pretty much an empty playing of the race card — you know, the type conservative pundits always complain about.
Muffler,
There are better links out there, but here’s a taste of your hero:
“When the horde of white, male writers of ”The Daily Show With Jon Stewart” gathered onstage in black tie to accept their award, they almost looked like a mock tableau of the past — the Whiffenpoofs, circa 1961. Mr. Stewart joked about it, bragging that his staff members were only ”80 percent Ivy League-educated Jews.”
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904EEDF1630F93AA2575AC0A9639C8B63
@mattb,
That’s a lot of runaround to evade the obvious: white guy imitates a minority in a “voice” that is not his “own”. You know and I know that if most other whites did this, it would be deemed “racist”. The fact that you, and others, are not objecting to this indicates that perhaps culture acceptance has shifted. So, if it’s good for Jon Stewart, then it’s good for anybody, apparently.
As for your comment about the writers- well you’re assuming something about the facts that we don’t know. At any rate, Hollywood is filled to brim with leftists, and yet… minority writers and actors have been noting for decades that it is almost impossible to find work (especially in “non-black” shows). I’ll let you ponder that one.
So, essentially what you’re saying is that our society would be a lot better off if whites went around speaking “jive”/mocking the way that African-Americans speak.
Nobody’s speaking “jive” in this situation. You are the one making the claim that by imitating the way a particular African-American speaks, one must be speaking “jive.” I guess that’s because you believe all black people talk that way, or something. If Stewart had in fact imitated Cain as jive-talkin’ caricature, that would have been a pretty racist joke. He didn’t though. He imitated how Cain actually speaks (i.e. not jive). Can you not see the difference?
Either it’s culturally acceptable for whites to imitate the way that minorities (or a specific individual in this case) speak, or it isn’t.
Again, there is a difference between imitating all minorities in a caricatured, stereotypical way, and imitating a specific individual as they actually speak (even in an exaggerated, mocking way).
For instance, Fred Armisen, a white man, does an imitation of Barack Obama on Saturday Night Live. This is not seen as offensive, as you suggest it should to us “liberals” (or at least the fictional version of us that exists in your mind), because Armisen is imitating Obama, as opposed to pretending Obama is a gangsta or jive (ok, enough with the jive. Is this 1974?). Do you see the difference?
Of course, I suspect you see the difference quite well. You just think it’s fun to pretend to call out “liberals” for this manufactured hypocrisy because you think it annoys them. And after all, that is the end all, be all for wingnuts. Whatever pisses of liberals, in a real or imagined way, is an inherent good.
No. The issue is the content and form of the satire. It’s not all equal. The other white guy’s you are thinking of — the ones who usually ask “what’s wrong with “Barack the Magic Negro” — are explictly doing race humor (often playing the Amos and Andy card — see Howard Stern, and Rush Limbaugh to a lesser degree, for the “look at me I’m putting on “black face” what’s wrong with that” examples). Stewarts wasn’t.
Or if you’re going down that path you need to complain about Obama, Oprah, Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle and others who constantly opt to “Black it up” and tactically use that same delivery pattern.
Keep reaching, this one isn’t racism or bigotry or even racial humor.
As far as the writers situation, you are largely right — the Entertainment Industry’s history with race is pathetic (perhaps best parodied by Spike Lee’s brilliant and yet unwatchable “Bamboozled” and to a lesser degree by “The Hollywood Shuffle” and “The Chapelle Show” — which ironically ended in a real life reproduction of ‘Bamboozled’). Discrimination is not reserved for a single party or ideology. But beyond that, was there a point there?
Hiring a black/AA writer to help write for that audience doesn’t preclude them from contributing other content.
You don’t get it, That Guy. If Jon Stewart imitated something I said using the same way of speaking that he used for Herman Cain, then he’d be getting into the racist territory. Why, you ask? Because I sound nothing like Herman Cain, whether he’s using his debating speech pattern, or his call & response speech pattern that he reserves for giving speeches in front of large t-publican crowds.
I understand that you right wing types need to make believe that the left is as prejudiced as you are, but you always wind up using easily refuted examples. By the way, no one, but no one, with a modicum of sense uses jive as a euphemism for the way Black people talk. Like Mantis, I too wonder: is this 1974? You’ve not only dated yourself, but you’ve told on yourself.
@mantis,
Yes, I am quite aware that Mr. Stewart was not “speaking jive”- I was taking that part of my statement to the logical, exaggerated conclusion. I find that leftists only seem to relate to hyperbole (“Republicans want old old people to eat cat food, and for the environment to be completely polluted!!”, etc.- that kind of thing). But Stewart was mocking a specific individual of a different race by imitating his voice. So, I will take from this that if a white (or person of any color, for that matter) encounters somebody of a different race and wants to mock that person by imitating their speaking voice…. we should all lighten up, and not make a big issue of it then. (?)
As for the Fred Armisen and Jon Stewart arguments, Stewart intentionally imitated Cain’s voice; Armisen (whether through intent, or just a bad imitation- does not really “do” Obama’s). Do you see the difference?
Ultimately, I’m just trying to determine the boundaries of what is acceptable behavior, and what is not. We shouldn’t impure ill intent to that harmless notion, right?
Stewart intentionally imitates politicians voices all the time, everyone who watches the show knows that. Between the “leftists” tell, unwillingness to see the obvious and the pretend concern over acceptable behavior, it’s pretty much impossible to take you seriously.
OK, now let’s try to imagine Stewart mocking Obama in a “black” tone of voice.
Cain is 100% right — there is a totally different different standard for conservative blacks. We saw with the Condoleeza Rice and Clareance Thomas, now we see it with Herman Cain.
The reason is very simple: leftist race-grievance groups like the NAACP will not make a fuss when conservatives are the target. It’s the same paradigm that had NOW condoning Cilnton and Weiner: politics trumps principle.
@mattb
By “Barack the Magic Negro”, you of course are taking into account that the term was coined by the LA Times movie and culture critic, David Ehrenstein, in a March 19, 2007 praising Obama…
As for the parody song of this column- well, it’s not my thing.
My point as to the writers. It should be obvious, but there has been real, vigorous discrimination against African-Americans in Hollywood (and especially the non-musical arts) by the very same people who allegedly are so “concerned” about them. We hear about “Republicans are racist” every day. Let’s get together and jump on the soapbox and raise awareness about the discriminatory (subtly racist) leftists then, eh?
Doug, your assertion that there’s nothing racist there is what’s silly, butmainly reveals you’re just young. Us old guys remember Amos and Andy, and recognized that voice as “the Kingfish” from Amos and Andy. The Kingfish, for you youngsters, we a con-man who was constantly getting Andy into trouble.
As a “right wing type,” I’m more than willing to ascribe the whole thing to Jon Stewart’s lack of acting talent. But it is amusing to think how this would’ve gone if Cain was a Democrat. Or if Stewart would’ve even gone there at all.
So, I will take from this that if a white (or person of any color, for that matter) encounters somebody of a different race and wants to mock that person by imitating their speaking voice…. we should all lighten up, and not make a big issue of it then. (?)
Depends on how they do it. That’s the point you’re intentionally missing.
As for the Fred Armisen and Jon Stewart arguments, Stewart intentionally imitated Cain’s voice; Armisen (whether through intent, or just a bad imitation- does not really “do” Obama’s). Do you see the difference?
There is no difference. Whether Armisen succeeds in imitating Obama’s speaking style well or not is a matter of opinion. It is doubtless that is what he attempts.
Ultimately, I’m just trying to determine the boundaries of what is acceptable behavior, and what is not.
Cultural evolution determines what is “acceptable behavior” in society, and culture does not often present clear boundaries. Common sense and a little bit of empathy should safely guide you.
We shouldn’t impure ill intent to that harmless notion, right?
If it’s disingenuous, yes.
OK, now let’s try to imagine Stewart mocking Obama in a “black” tone of voice.
What’s a “black” tone of voice TallDave? Do you think they all speak the same, or something?
there has been real, vigorous discrimination against African-Americans in Hollywood
– citation needed.
@Isome,
That argument is illogical. We’re not talking about cadence. That’s something you latched onto to avoid the issue.
As for your argument about current use of the term, “jive”- Well, let’s see here: Apparently (as you argument goes), we have all kinds of regional dialects- which is true, of course- but we only have one culturally accepted meaning to words. Webster certainly doesn’t agree. Is use of the term “jive” an intended, or at least subconscious, choice of by the writer (which magically reveals the writer’s supposed prejudice), or is it a relatively standard phrase intended to critique a person who finds it acceptable to make jokes in such a manner? (Again, I’m not saying Stewart did in this specific case) Pretty illogical when you think about it.
And you know that the game the left plays with words is designed to make your opponents walk on eggshells.
And attempting to smear me as prejudiced by selectively choosing one word- through your personal interpretation of that word- while changing the subject about Stewart’s behavior… I know you’re better than that.
@mantis
Depends on how they do it. That’s the point you’re intentionally missing.
Exactly as Stewart did. No harm, no foul?
There is no difference. Whether Armisen succeeds in imitating Obama’s speaking style well or not is a matter of opinion. It is doubtless that is what he attempts.
We do not know this. I can’t say for certain obviously, but I would not at all be surprised if the SNL staff told him not to intentionally imitate Obama’s lurching, “uh…uh..uh” style because it would upset a lot of lefties.
Cultural evolution determines what is “acceptable behavior” in society, and culture does not often present clear boundaries. Common sense and a little bit of empathy should safely guide you.
There’s a professor at Columbia (and Huffington Post contributor) who had sex with his daughter. Last I heard, he still had his post. Hence, I’m not so sure about equating conventional wisdom and “common sense” these days.
I think what Cain is doing is calculated. I can’t believe that anyone really believes a man running for president would say he would never read a bill over 3 pages long…that’s beyond stupid. I always thought that remark on Cain’s part was a slap at the idiocy of our Congress churning out 2,000 pages long that *no one* can read, whether they want to or no.
I also can’t believe anyone really believes that Cain really believes that Stewart was mocking him because he is black. In this case, race is incidental (albeit convenient) to the opportunity to take a swipe at a conservative. I think what “That Guy” thinks, which is that Cain is trying to “raise awareness about the discriminatory (subtly racist) leftists” by race-baiting a little bit himself. Oh well.
But that begs the question of should he be above doing that? Maybe. But as all hunters know, sometimes you must “become” the thing for a little while in order to slay the thing. And any person that goes as far as Cain has in the business world is a natural hunter, even if s/he never hunts with guns.
We do not know this. I can’t say for certain obviously, but I would not at all be surprised if the SNL staff told him not to intentionally imitate Obama’s lurching, “uh…uh..uh” style because it would upset a lot of lefties.
And what, he ignored these orders from the SNL Nazis? Because he does imitate Obama’s speaking style.
Hence, I’m not so sure about equating conventional wisdom and “common sense” these days.
I didn’t.
Anyway, I’ve had enough of you. Your game is obvious, and boring.
@mantis
Anyway, I’ve had enough of you.
What’s that word you guys always use to describe Palin? Oh, yeah:
Quitter.
🙂
I hate myself when I do things like this because I *know* better, but…
mantis, you forgot to *sniff* before you flounced off. :-p
Just another example of the double standard on race. Liberals always get a pass, conservatives are always demonized. Had anyone not a liberal icon like Stewart used the Amos and Andy voice we all know what manner of furor would have followed.
Some of my best friends are comedians…
You can call it tame. You can call it irrelevant. But you can’t deny… that voice was a weak imitation of Cain. It was a little better imitation of a stereotypical minstrel show and it was a pretty good job of trying to make Cain look like a minstrel performer.
There is no way you can deny that Jon Stewart’s voice affectation crossed a boundary we rarely see crossed these days.
So anyone merely questioning Obama’s policy decisions — dispassionately, impersonally, objectively — earns wide-eyed stares and whispers of “Racist!” while a white guy imitating a black man using stereotypical black speech cannot in any possible way be considered racist.
Is that about it?
I’m not flouncing off. I just refuse to run in circles with an obvious concern troll. It’s rather pointless.
… jeezuz, if you can’t even describe someone as ‘skinny’ or ‘clean & articulate’ w/o being branded a racist, i’d s’pose imitating someone’s ‘regional’ dialect might be considered something similar.
Not if he’s one’a ‘your’ guys though, ….. ……… we get it.
This thread is basically full of people either intentionally not getting the point, or literally too stupid to insult. Why is ok for Stewart to do impressions of John Kerry and George W Bush, but not Cain?
Back to the subject of the post, there’s been a lot of complaints about how Stewart mocked Cain, but not much on Cain’s nonsense assertion he was targeted because he was black. Does anyone think the proper response to “let’s have 3 page bills” isn’t laughter?
Stewart is a racist. its obvious unless your blinded by ideology and have to make stupid excuses for his black jive.
You libs are too funny.
Who dat who say who dat when I say who dat.
no not Amos and Andy or even the Kingfisher.
I don’t think Stewart is a racist or was trying to be racist (and I saw the entire interview with Chris Wallace). But I’m curious what liberal, MSM or “progressive” types would say if some, say like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, effected a Amos and Andy like accent while mocking Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. To sugget there would not be an outcry on the left is absurd. I think the overall point is it is vastly overblown—but we reap what we sow.
We all have moments were we can’t resist drawing conclusions that are a little paranoid, especially when someone rattles our cage.
Cain realizes his comment was unfair, but he spoke out on it too soon. This is one of those skills that good politicians cultivate over years. They need to be silver tongued liars. Cain is simply speaking from the heart, and it bit him in the ass.
It’s a shame, because I know a man like Cain would get eaten alive in a general election. He would make little mistakes that any normal person would, and the press would never let it go.
You have to be a teleprompter reading zombie, or a politically brilliant sophist, in order to survive, and Cain just isn’t that man. He’d make a great president, and he’s completely unelectable.
And BTW, yes, if Cain were a democrat and a conservative treated him like Jon did, it would be accepted wisdom by 90% of America that it was racist.
It’s a shame we can’t have a level playing field.
Would you care to point out examples of this, so that it isn’t taken as a silly strawman arguments that it appears to be?
Meanwhile, all this fuss over Herman Cain, a man who will never get anywhere near the Oval Office…
I’ve had more conservatives tell me I’m sexist for criticizing Sarah Palin than I’ve had liberals tell me I’m racist for criticizing President Obama.
Just saying.
Of course, because when it comes to Saint Sarah, many conservatives can play the sexist card as much as they accuse anyone else of playing the race card…
Since Stewart spoke “Kingfish” on a Republican candidate, it is not racist.
Now, had Beck spoke “Kingfish” on Obama, that would be different and definitely racist.
What all of this tells me is that “the national discussion on race” is taking place, and everyone taking part in it sounds ridiculous.
Personally, I blame the subject matter.
Poor “That Guy” — like so many of his brethren he simply can’t tell the difference between making fun of the performance of a single black individual and making racist generalizations about a huge group of people. Doesn’t understand why people don’t laugh when he sends those witch doctor Obama shots around. Can’t quite figure out it’s not 1913 anymore.
Is Stewart old enough to have ever heard this ‘Kingfish’? I’m just asking, I’ve never heard of it although I’ve heard the phrase ‘Amos and Andy’ before.
Still, I maintain he was imitating Cain, not Kingfish. And he was making fun of a stupid idea, not making fun of black people in general. And so far as I know, mocking has a long tradition in comedy. Now if he was legitimate news, or say, some national political group, it probably wouldn’t be appropriate.
Liberal half-assed ‘comic’ mocks black conservative = funny
Con half-assed ‘comic’ mocks black conservative = KKK
Now I get it
Obviously, anyone who was against a government takeover of healthcare was a racist. Anyone who wasn’t on board with Obama’s takeover of GM was a racist… they just couldn’t accept a black man running a car company.
You know, after years of THAT kind of leftist crap, it seems rather uncharitable to complain about Cain using the race card. In fact, it seems racist! LOL
Leftists, you absolutely lived by that sword. Don’t complain when it pierces you.
And anyone who believes there was a government takeover of health care may or may not be a racist.
But there is no doubt they are an idiot!
All of you calling Stewart’s actions racist are obviously anti-Semites.
Sorry, just working on my leftist rhetoric.
You know, after years of THAT kind of conservative strawman horseshit, it seems rather silly to be taking anyone making such arguments seriously at all…
“Would you care to point out examples of this, so that it isn’t taken as a silly strawman arguments that it appears to be?”
I’ll play along with your false ignorance since I know you know exactly what I mean. Here’s just one example…
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/msnbc-lawrence-odonnell-says-its-racist-to-talk-about-obamas-union-bosses
Stewart is a racist pig. How dare he mock Herman Cain like Hollywood did in the height of their arrogance. Time to put the Lib racists in their place at the back of the bus.