Monday’s Forum
I like to keep my issues strong.
Steven L. Taylor
·
Monday, June 8, 2020
·
82 comments
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
Follow Steven on
Twitter
The headline of the day-
U.S. senator Scott says China trying to sabotage vaccine development
The Florida headline of the day-
Florida man accidentally broadcast racial slurs on Facebook
This is a couple of days old (seems like a lifetime already). But my question is not what under what authority they operation but what obligation do ordinary citizens have to acknowledge that authority if there is no identification, no communication, etc. Can ordinary people claim defense and stand your ground laws against unknown assailants?
Nothing happened but still….
Who Are They? Unmarked Security Forces in DC Spark Fear
I found this pretty powerful and moving because of its simplicity.
Photos: Utah Marine veteran stands alone at Capitol with ‘I can’t breathe’ covering mouth
I hate to be cynical but I hope he’s totally legit.
@Scott:
I thought they were said to have been employees of the Bureau of Prisons, with no law enforcement powers outside of prisons. Did that prove not to be true? Were they just free-lancing creeps?
@Bill:
While he offers no evidence…
@Bill:
That is the self-own of the day.
A piece by historian Patrick Wyman on the police reaction to the recent protests.
Money quote:
I think the media and the country in general are having a hard time understanding what is happening in Minneapolis: the police are rioting. As an example, they are ignoring orders to stop using teargas. A few hours after the order was issued they lobbed gas grenades into a peaceful crowd and then charged them. Earlier, they marched into a perfectly calm, predominantly African American neighborhood and screamed at residents to get inside and stay inside, and then fired non-lethal rounds at citizens who remained on their porches. The message was clear: we can go anywhere and do anything we want to anyone, at any time.
It’s hard for the media to get a grip on this, simply because it seems so outside the bounds of what can happen in the US.
About yesterday’s post on the good poll numbers for El PITO (good for most of the world, that is), there’s been movement on the generic congressional ballot poll as well.
Such numbers were seen before the 2018 midterms that returned control of the House to the Democratic party.
@Kathy:
This is the reason why policing in America needs to be torn down and rebuilt. If a role of the police is to enforce a social order, that order is one that is adopted by the broader society, not a self selected vanguard imposing their bias on the rest.
@Kathy:
Just came across this this AM:
https://mobile.twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1269933826068942849
@charon:
If this is reflected in other polls this week and is durable for a couple of weeks, we may finally be seeing the cracking of cult45.
A donut shop in Rhode Island called Allie’s Donuts decided to get rid of its police discount, and Republicans are flipping out over this. The ironic part is they’re basically all saying, “you better start giving cops free stuff again, or they’ll just let people rob you”, because even police’s supports think there’s no difference between the cops and a mob crew now.
@Sleeping Dog:
Maybe. But Cult45 seems to believe the opposite: that because of the pandemic and the looting, Trump is in a stronger than ever position.
@charon:
Trump’s already bitchtwing* about it, which I take to men it upsets him.
He does have an issue now, though, which could help him: defunding police.
No one is seriously advocating for doing away with the roles police are supposed to fulfill, such as enforcing the law and keeping the peace. Many are saying this can be done with a means different than police, many others want to downsize police to let them focus on this. But to the unsubtle, uninformed voter it can be made to mean “abolish the police so that crime can take over the streets and n***s can rape your daughters.” That’s how El PITO will spin this.
Never mind police are entirely a local matter, never mind no president, or Trump, has any authority to dictate anything about local police, etc. That game plan is so obvious even Trump’s four remaining neurons can probably make it out.
(*) I’m attempting a neologism that means “bitching on Twitter.”
@CSK: The cult, like Trump himself, always find a way to make everything look good for him.
@Kathy:
The slogan is the bad part, because it allows Hannity, Carlson, et. al. claim that the goal is to eliminate the police force.
As John Oliver explained last night, Camden, NJ rebuilt the force with more stringent rules. Every officer had to re-apply to continue policing. It is also designed to rebuild other programs that have been defunded–mental health personnel, social workers, plus community investments.
The former is designed to take the load off cops, who really shouldn’t be in the business of dealing with non-crime social problems. Their job should be solving crime.
The latter is a way to alleviate the socioeconomic precursors to crime.
@Kathy:
For the neologism, how about “twitching”? Although it’s not a newly coined word.
@Stormy Dragon:
To the sound of ‘The Bridge on the River Kwai’ theme
Donuts! We eat them every day
Donuts! We eat them plain or glazed!
Donuts!
We’ll go nuts!
Without donuts, any donuts today!
The safest place to be is the donut store near you.
I heard this (Or something close to it) on the radio over 25 years ago
@Stormy Dragon:
Meh, they’ve been saying that for a while now. I keep seeing variations of “what do you expect will happen when you challenge an armed, stressed out officer?” as the conservative rebuttal to the Buffalo incident. They’ve fully internalized the idea that the police have the right to hurt you for irritating them or intimidate you into giving them things solely because they’re a dominate armed force. Listen to how conservatives talk about having to appease the police and how their feelings of persecution are just as valid as the bloody injuries they’ve inflicted on people. Conservatives treat the police and military as their preferred gang, going so far as to bastardize the flag they claim to love to show respect for the “thin blue line”. As @Steven noted in the other thread, it’s not that different then having a faction in a coup and showing support – they’re cool with it because it’s their guys bashing in someone else’s head.
@MarkedMan:
Here in Seattle the police complied with the order to stop using tear gas by switching to pepper spray grenades.
As I noted late last night, apparently Sulzberger decided somebody’s head had to roll after being surprised NYT readers don’t approve of Tom Cotton’s fascism. James Bennet is gone.
@Gustopher:
A city council member, Kshama Sawant, wants Mayor Jenny Durkan to resign over the Seattle police response to the protests over George Floyd’s death at the hands (knee) of Derek Chauvin.
@gVOR08: Bennet was terrible. Wikipedia sums it up:
@Teve:
Well, she was interfering with the God-given right to feed your kid crap, doncha know.
Anyone on here living in Mississippi? I’m asking because, while playing around with the Washington Post’s C19 interactive chart, I noticed something odd. In the past week Mississippi saw a fairly dramatic drop in cases. Seems like good news. But they also saw a fairly dramatic drop in deaths in the same time period. Virtually everywhere else, deaths trail cases by about 3 weeks. Is there something going on in MS that would cause this?
BTW, states that are not doing well:
Arizona
Arkansas
Florida
Kentucky
Mississippi*
Missouri
New Mexico
North Carolina
Oregon
South Carolina
Texas
Utah
Virginia*
Washington
Wisconsin*
*Some improvement in the past week
@MarkedMan: Yet another example of the Minneapolis police rioting. Here they target cars owned or rented by reporters and slash their tires.
@MarkedMan: It’s also worth noting that infection rate doesn’t give the best data, as testing protocols and availability have been changing, so we are detecting more. The infection rate graph is probably useless without a whole lot of additional information.
Washington looks like it is having a resurgence based on infections, but deaths are way down. So, as of 2-3 weeks ago, we were doing a good job on controlling infections. And now we have protests and police riots, so that’s probably all out the window.
By detected-infections alone, California hasn’t hit the top of their curve, while deaths have been decreasing for a while.
@gVOR08: I was glad the N.Y. Times ran Cottons opinion piece. I read the Times because I want to be informed about what’s going on, not to sit around singing kumbiyah with people who think like I do. Cotton is a US Senator who is right in the Trumpist mainstream and was willing to go on the record to show that mindset. The Times Op-Ed section certainly does not skew proto-fascist so putting this one column up does not represent an endorsement.
@Gustopher: Good points. In the beginning in NY the case to death rate was super high, north of 10%, but that’s because they were only catching cases that required hospitalization. So spikes in cases can represent more cases or can represent dramatically increased levels of testing.
@MarkedMan: it’s not like trump’s been calling the media the Enemy of the People for years or something.
@MarkedMan: New Mexico is actually doing well, aside from a fairly rural region on the Arizona border (and including the Navajo Nation). Our governor has been pretty cautious about this. We are well into the reopening plans like everyone, though, so who knows. (We ate at a restaurant for the first time in months over the weekend.)
@MarkedMan:
They could have done an interview and asked a bunch of critical questions. That would have been OK.
Giving an uncritical podium to someone who just a few days prior called for the extralegal execution of US citizens is an entirely different matter.
George T. Conway has initiated a Twitter campaign to help find a slogan for the Trump campaign, since they are in search of one. Some offerings so far:
“Hey, not everyone died.”
“Putin America First.”
“I will burn the country to the ground to save my own ass. Believe me.”
“Lies made. Lies kept.”
“Elect me. I need to stay out of prison.”
“A chicken in every bunker.”
“Are you better off than you were four years ago, or are you dead?”
#TrumpSlogans
The Tom Cotton op-ed affair shows why the media must defend America’s values
@MarkedMan: What am I to learn from the Cotton Op-Ed? That Tom Cotton is a lying POS who will say anything to appeal to the R base because he wants to inherit the Trumpian mantle and run for Prez? I knew that last month. That the demonstrations are riddled with Antifa thugs? That’s a lie, previously debunked by NYT. That the only way to quell violent protest is with overwhelming force? The last several days have put the lie to that. That federal intervention in disorders have happened before? I knew that, and the equivalences are strained.
Publishing this is not an endorsement. But it is providing, free, a very prestigious and prominent soapbox. And it’s not like Cotton would be unable to find a forum for his views if NYT hadn’t solicited an op-ed. Are Bennet and Dao so obsessed with printing provocative opinions that they decided to ask Cotton for whatever he felt like and hit “publish” without even reading it?
In my comment late last night I noted that NYT puzzles me. I don’t understand their motivations. Presumably they thought obsessing about HER EMAILS!!! in 2016 would generate clicks and subscriptions, but how does publishing Tom Cotton peddle papers? WAPO, who are enjoying this no end, report a record level of cancellations. WAPO also theorizes that Bennet liked to troll the papers liberal readership. ?? The “paper of record” is out to own the libs? Their own subscriber libs?
Minneapolis police confirm that they slashed the tires of reporters for BS reasons (cars can go fast):
https://www.startribune.com/officers-slashed-tires-on-vehicles-parked-amid-minneapolis-protests-unrest/571105692/
@Teve:
This reminds me…sometimes, someone posts a link to a conservative writer of whom I’m unfamiliar. I will usually look to see what their commentary is like. Last week’s lucky contestant was Monica Showalter, who writes for American Thinker.
I found this gem from 2013, a piece about the Obama WH using Sunstein’s concepts from Nudge. To her, this was a tyrannical loss of freedom. Judging by the piece, she was unaware that Sunstein wrote a well-researched best-seller about it largely using examples from private enterprise. I wonder what she thinks about the claim that government should run more like a business?
Her complaints? The government doesn’t know what’s best for people, and this sort of nudging is a loss of freedom.
This is the Republicans trifecta here.
First, Slippery slope absurdism that is not unique to government, bureaucracy, or Democrats. All advertising does this. Political ads, in particular attempt to nudge,sl so doing it in elections is not unique.
Second, outdated facts. Two years beforeshe published this piece, the Obama WH replaced the food pyramid with “myplate.” It reduced carbs, replacing them with fruits and vegetables. It also mandated that half the grains in school lunches be of the whole variety, and replaced french fries with fruits/veggies. Who bitched about the latter? Ted Cruz and other Republicans. Food producers also lined up to bash the changes.
Third, contradicting the whole premise of their ideology. Putting non-healthful foods on the top shelf is somehow a loss of freedom. Okay, but then where is the outrage that grocery stores are laid out the same way to maximize profits?High margin items on easy to reach shelves; Common staple items at the back of the store to encourage foot traffic through dense product areas to encourage grabbing something you would not otherwise have; impulse items by the register. If nudges=loss of freedom, then grocers are guilty.
The underlying idea of the free market is to nudge people to productive activity. actually it’s really more like coercion, given the consequences of not doing something the market dictates worthwhile.
This person writes for a magazine with “thinker” in the title. I guess Eric Trump, Victor Davis Hansen, and Andy McCarthy weren’t available.
@MarkedMan:
I’m with you on this.
People need to understand that Tom Cotton is probably going to be a serious contender for the Republican Party nomination in 2024. This is who he is.
If Bunker Boy and his entourage were eager to send in troops for a few protests, what would they do in case of a general strike? Nukes?
@Kurtz:
Considering the org food pyramid was heavily tampered with by special interests back in the day and her point’s about as valid as the nut who claims modern bananas are somehow evidence of God’s Perfect Design. It’s heavy on carbs and dairy because the free market wasn’t making farmers enough money on those items so they straight up changed the recommendations. Go back and read them before they were messed with and they’re remarkably close to what we consider good nutrition today…. probably because the fundamentals of science don’t change unless money demands them to overwritten.
Conservatives bitched about healthy eating in schools because quite frankly they felt targeted. There’s not an insignificant amount of overweight conservatives who make bad food choices every day that took it as a personal insult when FLOTUS tried to make our kids less fat. They accepted the lies about the food pyramid because it (a) made farmers and corporations money and (b) let them indulge and point to it as justification. Had the org version stood, they would have complained that it wasn’t doing enough to support local businesses and family farms.
@Kathy:
I wish I could remember where I read this, but sometime fairly recently I recall seeing a piece about how an extra layer of protection had been added to the launch codes. It was something to the effect that the Defense Department had quietly decided that if Trump gave some sort of order, it was to be delayed while it was double-checked and triple-checked. (This would be beyond the normal double-checking.) I don’t know if this can even be done. If it could, I’d be fractionally reassured.
This is independent of the story about Trump barking an order at Mattis, Mattis listening quietly, and then hanging up the phone and saying, “We’re not going to do that.” I forget what the order was, but doubtless it was something unconstitutional.
@MarkedMan:
That’s an excellent point, and it reminds me of an essay by the linguist Geoffrey Nunberg around the time of the Rodney King episode, where he comments on the way our language distinguishes violent acts based on how much power the perpetrators are thought to have. He observes that there’s a definition of the word force that the dictionaries define as essentially a synonym to the word violence, yet in practice it tends to be reserved for the actions of official authorities, whereas violence is usually applied to civilians. In his words:
The fact that the word riot isn’t being applied to the police is a reflection of the fact that that word is almost never used to describe the actions of people in positions of authority. Furthermore, the fact that the word is being applied to mostly peaceful protests–well, it’s part of a sustained propaganda effort by the Trump Administration, but the reason it’s being accepted uncritically by far too many people is that the basic narrative is so deeply drilled into American consciousness. It’s a pattern we’ve seen for ages: there’s an incident of shocking police brutality, usually against a black person, and then there’s a riot. It’s what happened in the Rodney King episode. It’s the situation immortalized in the movie Do the Right Thing. And it was happening for decades before that. (Perhaps Spike Lee was inadvertently contributing to this narrative in a recent video in which he invoked his classic film.) In any case, it makes for a better story, even though it’s depressing. Americans are so used to it they have trouble processing that something rather different is happening here.
MINNEAPOLIS: Several MPD police cruisers drive by peaceful demonstrators and pepper spray them from moving vehicles for no reason
@MarkedMan:
“I think the media and the country in general are having a hard time understanding what is happening in Minneapolis: the police are rioting.”
Not just in Minneapolis. Philly too:
“Philadelphia Police Staff Inspector Joseph Bologna Jr. surrendered himself Monday to face aggravated assault and other charges stemming from a series of viral videos that emerged last week depicting him beating a Temple University student and antagonizing protesters during demonstrations.
More than 100 officers — both in and out of uniform — gathered outside of Lodge 5 of the Fraternal Order of Police in a show of support. They applauded him as he left the lodge escorted by his lawyer Fortunato Perri Jr. and police union head John McNesby just after 8:30 a.m. to an SUV waiting to drive him to the police district. McNesby told reporters he felt Bologna “was being railroaded.”
(snip)
The move has drawn sharp criticism from McNesby, who has defended Bologna as one of the department’s most dedicated officers. And fellow police have described the 31-year veteran of the force as a gregarious and widely respected officer — even as other videos began to emerge of Bologna using aggressive tactics in response to demonstrators, including one from Tuesday in which he threw his bicycle and lunged at a female protester after she appears to lightly tap a tire on his bike.”
Videos of the incidents are included in the story.
@Kurtz:
The American Thinker is a pathetic joke. It’s beloved by Cult45, who aren’t really capable of determining that the majority of AT’s stable of “writers” and “journalists” are actually unpaid semi-literate crackpots who have no other outlet for the crap they produce.
@MarkedMan:
Had they published an editorial right next to it entitled “Holy Shit! Tom Cotton Is Crazy!”, I would agree with you.
Or had the editor-in-chief actually bothered to read the editorial ahead of time, and the NYTimes been prepared in any way for the backlash, or put the piece into an appropriate context.
The NYTimes editorial page is one of the most prominent platforms in the country, and they shouldn’t be just letting any idiot (Senator or not) use it to promote destroying America’s freedoms.
The lack of downvotes has been working well so far. I thought it would be a disaster, but I was wrong. Go figure.
(If it proves to be a terrible idea in a month or two, I reserve the right to say “I told you so,” of course. If I’m a big enough man to say “I was wrong,” I’m a big enough man to say “I told you so” … that’s how it works, right?)
@CSK:
It’s similar to WND, a source of pure right-wing crackpottery: among other things, it’s apparently where the theory that Dreams from my Father was ghostwritten by Bill Ayers originated.
@KM:
Sure, that’s one way to look at it. Especially, the “feeling targeted” part, because it ain’t just diet that results in that response.
To me, complaining about a long used guide that was replaced by the administration one is criticizing is damning. Worse, the Obama administration replaced it for the very reason she highlighted.
If readers just accept it, okay. But for a magazine that presents itself as a publication for intellectuals, it should probably render a columnist unworthy of employment.
@sam: I wonder if some of it is that these are officers who realize they’re short-timers in Minneapolis. If the city council has the votes to institute major changes — and it appears they do — then it’s likely that someone like Chauvin who averaged almost one personnel-file-worthy complaint per year will be either dismissed immediately or put on what we used to call “an action plan.” Action plans had specific targets and consequences: either you fixed a particular bad behavior by a certain time, or at least took large specific steps towards fixing it, or you were gone. I don’t think these are officers who will react well to, for example, being required to complete six credit hours in conflict resolution coursework at one of the local universities over the next year.
@CSK:
All I know about nuclear weapons authorizations comes from fiction. I doubt any of it is accurate.
@Bill: Yeah, it was The Bangles
“If you want to find all the cops
They’re hanging out in the donut shop
They sing and dance (oh whey oh)
They spin the clubs, cruise down the block.”
[…]
“All the cops in the donut shop say
(Whey oh whey oh, ay oh whey oh)
Walk like an Egyptian
Walk like an Egyptian.”
@Michael Cain:
Quite frankly I don’t expect any of these officers to react well to any sort of corrective action, meaningful or complete fluff. Policing seems to be one of the few places left where an employee can be a total detriment to the workplace and still be protected. The unions have zero interest in doing anything to rein in the bad apples so they become acclimated to not being held accountable at all. Even something as pointless as showing up to a 1hr seminar you know they’ll tune out will be treated like you sent them to Death Row and considered hostile action to be resisted.
Long time ago, I did consulting work for a entity that once had state government ties and thus employees who retained state union status. It was hell on HR and nobody took action plans or discipline seriously if they were grandfathered in. One woman in particular had been there for decades and had a rap sheet thicker then the dictionary. At least once a month she was in there for a serious violation – once she actually *bit* a coworker! Instead of letting her be fired, the union went to bat for one of its most senior employees and got it down to counseling and anger management training. Since that was what I was running, I’d be handed her folder and when she inevitably failed to show, I dutifully marked her Absent and Failure to Attend in the paperwork for termination…. and added it to her case that just went in circles. Back to the union to arbitrate, she’d get bargained down to some BS, failed to cooperate and that went back to the union to deal with. Meanwhile she just got angrier, nastier and more condescending; she knew she was protected and anything short of murder wouldn’t get her fired. As of last year, she was *still* employed there and many of the other union workers had quit in disgust over the union’s failure to protect *them*.
That was one of the worst gigs I’ve ever had and I can only imagine a bunch of officers with the same attitude existing in various departments. They’re the ones out busting heads and slashing tires because they know if you come at the king, you better not miss. If the reforms fail, they won’t deal with any consequences; if it succeeds, now’s the time to get their inner authoritarian on because they won’t survive the purge.
@sam:
I said it yesterday and I will say it again. Call me nuts if you want
Police misbehavior against unarmed peaceful protestors + plus a unhinged president + a major health crisis=
This country could be heading for a revolution
or
a coup
or both
@Michael Cain:
If Chauvin and the other 3 are not convicted there is a very, very good chance that they’ll be back on the force. The city council in Mpls has limitations as to what they can do beyond slashing the PD budget and reallocating the money to other programs. A combination of the city charter and statewide legislation is the limitation. Short of state level legislation they will not break the union, which is at the root of the cities police problem. There best bet may to be pull a Camden NJ and fire the whole force and start over again, but it will be a heavy lift.
At one time Minnesota was a very strong union state and while that has greatly faded today, the legacy of that leaves public employee unions in a very powerful position. My thinking is that Frey knows how difficult the change that the council wants will be and won’t commit to it yet.
If the state legislature would remove disciplinary actions from the items that a public employee can request arbitration, the city has a chance at real change.
@Sleeping Dog:
My suburban city (population ~120k) has had, for decades, policies that imposed some very heavy filtering on the hiring side of the equation. It has pluses and minuses. From the information that I’ve seen, neither Chauvin nor Kroll (head of the Minneapolis police union) could have been hired here. OTOH, I’m sure some people who are excellent officers elsewhere have been kept out.
I don’t know if it’s relevant, but a disproportionate number of Denver cops and firefighters retire to this particular suburb.
@Bill:
I’m a believer that a peaceful partition of the states is inevitable. I believe I know where one of the geographic divisions will be, and why. I’m working (slowly) on a book, which keeps me somewhat honest and gives me a way to structure the research.
Yes, I’m aware that it’s a lunatic fringe idea. Go ahead and laugh, I’m used to it.
@KM:
If you bite someone, you’ve assaulted that person, which is a felony. Couldn’t this creature have been arrested, union be damned?
@Michael Cain:
I kinda support that. Big problems tho. The United Kentuckies of Mississippi would be desperately poor. And how do you do Social Security and SSDI?
@Michael Cain:
Fiction or non-fiction book? And do neighboring countries also partition, perhaps to join the new North American nations?
What I wonder is how such a partition would affect the economy. Several big manufacturers have factories, either for parts or finished products, in several states which will wind up in different countries.
Lastly, does peaceful also mean amicable?
Back to COVID-19 matters, I’m shopping online for disposable face masks.
The one cloth mask I got from a coworker seems rather effective. It’s tight, comfortable (now), and has three layers. But I feel it leaks exhaled air upwards towards the eye region. And it’s not as water resistant as it should be. I’m also tired of washing it every day.
At work I can request two disposable ones each day. They tend to be tighter, somewhat less comfortable, but don’t leak upwards and I don’t have to wash them. On the other hand, they are not the same model every time. Some have two layers, some only one. And some are really uncomfortable (if it leaves an indentation on the bridge of my nose, it’s really not meant to be worn by human beings).
The offers are bewildering. Quite simply, I’ve no idea what to get. I don’t believe any of the ones advertised as N95 are anywhere close to that standard. I know surgical masks offer some protection, though less than a genuine N95 mask. But there are so many effing models and makes on offer, it boggles the mind.
Obviously just about anyone who can put fabric together is making and selling masks, and caveat emptor!
Ok. I’m done with this rant (for now anyway).
I’ll admit, my first reaction to the idea of defunding the police was skepticism. Police reform costs money for things like re-training, new equipment, and the like. Replacing officers doesn’t come for free either.
The news today out of Minneapolis — the police slashing tires, driving by protesters to pepper spray them, etc. — pulls me in a different direction. Perhaps only blunt instruments will have an effect on the MPD, and maybe other departments. I’m not sure where I fall right now on this question.
@Kathy:
Is this hyperbole, or have they resorted to masks designed for other species? I’m curious.
@Jen:
I’ve seen the odd photo now and then of cats and dogs wearing masks, but I think those were home-made.
It’s hyperbole. Kind of designed by an alien who’d never seen a human being, but had read about face masks.
Rick Wilson called for name suggestions for the fenced-in area around the White House.
Julia Davis: Tinyman Square.
Brilliant.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, pardon me…I couldn’t help but have that reaction after seeing the latest money beg from National Review Online:
I’m sure no irony was intended with that last line about marauders intent on smashing the foundation of our Republic…this from a publication that supports Donald J. Trump…it’s all one can do not to…
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
We all can use a good laugh during these troubled times…
@Bill: And it’s probably only 150 or so years later than Franklin or Jefferson would have predicted (although the revolution that we did have was probably about when Henry Clay imagined that it would be 😉 ).
@Teve: The same way a “pay as you go” cellphone contract works–any credits, refunds, or remaining services you are owed at the time of your departure cannot be refunded, transferred or assigned to any other person.
Sound okay?
@Kathy: A true filter mask offers protection in both directions. A cloth mask may offer some protection in the outbound but probably very little in the inbound.
I guess a felt cloth mask would be effective but not sure you could get it thin enough to breath through. And I’m not sure how it would work if it got wet.
With respect to a peaceful partition…
Time frame. In 15-20 years it will be feasible for people to talk about it as an actual not-insane topic. In 30-35 years it’s feasible for it to happen. Trend lines in the US and the world will make both quite different places in 30 years. As a project about a hypothetical, this started for me eight or nine years ago predicting where certain trends were going and how they interacted. The (relatively) massive blogosphere discussions about separating red states and blue states happening now is as much surprise to me as to anyone. It’s not the right time. It’s not reasons that can work.
@Kathy: I make my own mask each week from a handkerchief and two pony-tail scrunchies. I have several really heavy and nice on your nose silk handkerchiefs that I use for the job. On the other hand, I only go where people are one or two days in any given week, so I probably don’t go through as many of them.
The most important (and unfortunate) element of the whole mask issue is that the ones that aren’t 95N grade are really mostly for protecting other people from you rather than the other way around. You do get minimized risk by wearing one, but it is mostly based on the infected person also wearing as good or better a mask than you have, so there you go…
@MarkedMan:
A while back someone tested those blue shop towels that come on a roll like paper towels. Used as a filter element inside a well-fitting double-layer cloth mask, the name brands were remarkably effective. On the order of the N95 masks. The harder problem was finding homemade cloth masks that fit well enough.
@Just nutha ignint cracker: so every elderly person in the New Confederacy gets cut off? People who’ve paid into the system for decades lose all that? Not feasible. Jesustan would never agree to leave.
PS i sell cellphone contracts. People get royally pissed off about losing $17 on their prepaid service, and we’re talking about costing them tens or hundreds of thousands.
@MarkedMan:
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
I know. My problem is that despite several emails from management stating masks are mandatory at all times inside the office, most people in my department simply don’t wear them.
It’s going to be a long pandemic.
Yes We Can Can
Bonnie Pointer RIP
1950-2020
It always hurts a little more when they gave so much more than I ever have and they are younger than me when they go.
@Teve:
It would be a complicated game: obtain a sufficient majority in each of 38 states that believes they would be better off in a smaller group of states. Or perhaps, no worse off in a smaller group of states. With weird indirect relationships hardly anyone thinks about to encourage groupings. By 1860, grain exports from the Midwest to foreign countries by way of the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers and the Gulf ports was already big business. One of the reasons Abraham Lincoln supported keeping the southern states in the Union was that as a separate country they could extract a great deal of the profit from that trade by tariffs on grain passing through. There are a variety of river-related reasons today why the grain belt from Ohio to Nebraska wouldn’t want Mississippi to fail.
I mean, we could just shut the power off via nanobots, go full Revolution.
Storyline
“What would you do without it all? In this epic adventure, a family struggles to reunite in an American landscape void of electricity: a world of empty cities, local militias and heroic freedom fighters, where every single piece of technology — computers, planes, cars, phones, even lights — has mysteriously blacked out forever.”
The one thing I’ve been saying this whole time is….thank God the electricity has stayed on. We’re still able to limp along and discuss how shitty it is, without having to resort to swords and bow and arrows, and limited amounts of explosives.
@Michael Cain: I’d be interested in a link, if you have one, as I’m curious if it was just a lab test or done with people wearing them. Filter masks make an effort not to absorb moisture, with the fibers in the mat being hydrophobic to a greater or lesser extent. In fact, one of the certifying tests is that they don’t allow the transfer of blood droplets from the outside to the inside. I imagine those blue shop towels use fibers that absorb moisture.
@MarkedMan: Sorry, I don’t seem to have saved the link. I’m sure you’re right, though, that the test conditions were dry, ie, industrial mask testing. Medical-rated N95 has to pass additional liquid tests.