Monday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College and a nonresident senior fellow at the Scowcroft Center for Strategy and Security at the Atlantic Council. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm vet. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.

Comments

  1. sam says:
  2. Scott says:

    More evidence of Soviet style apparatchiks in our government. Installing political officers, enforcing loyalty over expertise, etc. We know how the Soviet government turned out. This will take years to repair.

    Scoop: Trump’s loyalty cop clashes with agency heads

    President Trump, in a highly unusual new effort, has begun making significant staffing changes inside top federal agencies without the consent — and, in at least one case, without even the knowledge — of the agency head, according to officials familiar with the effort.

    Why it matters: This campaign — helmed by Trump’s loyalty enforcer, a 30-year-old former body man who now runs hiring for the government — is part of the systematic purging or reassigning of those deemed insufficiently supportive of Trump.

    6
  3. Scott says:

    White House pressure for a vaccine raises risk the U.S. will approve one that doesn’t work

    This is my fear. Would you trust a vaccine from this administration? See my entry above.

    President Donald Trump has promised that there will be a coronavirus vaccine before the year is out. But public health experts are growing increasingly worried that the White House will pressure regulators to approve the first vaccine candidate to show promise — without proof that it provides effective, reliable protection against the virus.

    3
  4. KM says:

    Yet another racially-insensitive Karen video has gone viral . In case you missed it, a man was stenciling in chalk a BLM message on his own property when confronted about his “vandalism”. The woman, in a really condescending tone, then informs the homeowner of 18 years she knows who lives there and it wasn’t him. She demands his name and proof he lives there but refuses to call the cops when challenged – likely because she had some modicum of awareness of how stupid a PR move that would be in this day and age. Not smart enough to not lie on camera or be caught demanding a minority validate themselves to a complete stranger on their own property. It’s since costing her money.

    I missed the Cancel Culture post (damn work) but wanted to weigh in on this one. So many of the post-Karen comments I’ve run across complain that the home owner “should have answered” the questions and “see something, say something” was the cause, not racism. They claim she shouldn’t be losing her company (a franchise??) and that cancel culture ruined this woman life for nothing. Well, that’s the point y’all – this was nothing. He owed her nothing, whether or not he was on his own property. Even if he *was* a vandal, it was chalk on a wall in San Francisco. If you can’t be bothered to wait for the rain, go get a bucket or hose to wash it off. An easily solvable problem that didn’t require a confrontation but this woman chose to follow her implicit bias that (a) a minority couldn’t be a home owner in that neighborhood and (b) nobody would post a pro-BLM message in that neighborhood. The fact that it was in chalk aka easy to remove should have tipped her off permanent marking wasn’t the intention and thus not vandalism. This is why children are given chalk to draw on sidewalks – it’ll wash.

    “Cancel culture” is what those on the right call the marketplace of ideas shutting them down. This is capitalism in action: a business owner does something they find objectionable and customers & fellow businesses decide not to do business with them anymore. Brand is the good will you have with customers so if you destroy your brand, don’t be surprised you destroy your job. Reputation matters in the marketplace of ideas and is one of the tool you use to persuade people to choose you. “Cancel culture” is people complaining capitalism works. This woman ruined her livelihood over chalk because she couldn’t accept a POC was doing something she found unacceptable. We need to respect these people’s bad choices and let them suffer the consequences of their actions rather then indulging their complaining about how unfair it all is.

    25
  5. CSK says:

    Forbes.com is reporting that Brad Parscale says that over 800,000 people have registered for the Tulsa rally.

    5
  6. KM says:

    @Scott :

    This is my fear. Would you trust a vaccine from this administration? See my entry above.

    HELL NO. I’m luckier then most and get to see confidential data of this nature as part of my job. So far, the trials don’t show any major issues but the entire process is designed to buy time for the issues to manifest. Pushing leads to data being missed – I doubt it will be faked as the stakes are WAY too high for a completely useless or dangerous product to be released but side effects could get glossed over. The companies won’t release something that you can see doesn’t work immediately but something that causes health problems down the road they “didn’t know about”? Oh yes, there’s a good chance of class-action lawsuit commercials littering the airways for decades to come.

    I won’t take anything until President Biden cleans out the Trump sycophants and a complete in-depth review of the study and process is done…. and even then it’s a maybe. I’d rather just wear the mask, WFH and wait a year or two too see how it shakes out. Never take version 1.0, people – not unless you really have to.

    5
  7. Kathy says:

    @Scott:

    Politicizing face masks is already costing lives. Politicizing vaccines will be worse.

    5
  8. de stijl says:

    @KM:

    On your conclusion, and in light of the of Joyner’s previous argument on the cancel culture issue, this needs to be brought home.

    The right is as much cancel culture as the left is.

    Voices and opinions not acceptable in discourse. The default view is that this is a strictly left thing. It is not.

    On the macro pop culture level there is The Dixie Chicks.

    On the micro level there are countless voices silenced the threats.

    7
  9. Teve says:

    It just occurred to me that on Star Trek, if you were in a shooting war wouldn’t you want to direct it from the holodeck, where you can see the whole battle space in 3-D?

    2
  10. Stormy Dragon says:

    Roberts and Gorsuch joined in a 6-3 ruling today that federal anti-discrimination law protects gay workers.

    There is going to be so much schadenfreude today watching Republican heads explode.

    8
  11. Teve says:

    Ted Cruz just challenged actor Ron Perlman to a wrestling match.

    …with Jim Jordan.

    Seriously, he can’t even pretend to be tough. Cruz said he’d donate $10,000 to charity if Perlman could last five minutes in the ring with Jordan and not get pinned. Perlman responded by saying I’ll donate $50,000, and I’ll wrestle You.

    12
  12. HarvardLaw92 says:

    I suggest that all of you check out today’s ruling by SCOTUS in Bostock v. Clayton County, Georgia. I have to admit that I did not, remotely, see that ruling coming from this court. The authorship surprised me even more.

    15
  13. Neil Hudelson says:

    A couple of years ago on a post here regarding LBGTQ rights, i made the argument that those rights should already be covered by sex discrimination. If you fire a man for marrying a man, and you wouldn’t do the same for a woman marrying a man, then it’s sex discrimination.

    I was told by one of the lawyers here–possibly Doug–“that’s not how the Constitution works.”

    From today’s decision:

    “An employer who fires an individual for being homosexual or transgender fires that person for traits or actions it would not have questioned in members of a different sex,” Gorsuch wrote. “Sex plays a necessary and undisguisable role in the decision, exactly what Title VII forbids.”

    I told you so.

    22
  14. Stormy Dragon says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    To be fair, Gorsuch is, unlike Kavanaugh, a perfectly fine Republican SCOTUS nominee. The problem with him was how he was nominated, not him as a nominee himself.

    10
  15. Kathy says:

    @Teve:

    Look up the third season of Babylon 5, where Sheridan and Delen pretty much do something like that, though from the White Star’s command room rather than a holodeck. We learn that is how Minbari direct battles

    Apparently in Trek, whatever display Picard had was good enough.

    2
  16. Kathy says:
  17. EddieInCA says:

    @CSK:

    Forbes.com is reporting that Brad Parscale says that over 800,000 people have registered for the Tulsa rally

    There are only 400,000 is all of Tulsa county. So I call BS. #math.

    4
  18. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    He tends to be a fairly strict originalist / textualist, and using that lens, the text of Title VII does not include any verbiage specifying protections for homosexuals or transgender persons, nor could any intent for a Congress in the 1960’s to have inferred one be gleaned from examining the historical record. It’s a pretty significant leap for him IMO. I’m pleasantly surprised, but shocked nonetheless

    4
  19. Stormy Dragon says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    Legislative intent is irrelevant from a textualist standpoint. As Gorsuch notes in the opinion.

    3
  20. Kathy says:

    @KM:
    @Scott:

    These are rational concerns, but there is more to consider.

    I trust Dr. Fauci to speak out if the vaccine is ineffective or unsafe. There are vaccines being developed elsewhere, and there are agencies that evaluate and approve vaccines and other medications in many countries and regions. One need not depend on Trumpidians within the FDA.

    Of course, trump may order the CDC and FDA to issue a hydroxichloroquine concoction which he’ll tout as a vaccine, or saline solution with “COVID-19 VACCINE” written on the vial in black Sharpie, which is how this creature usually lies.Those might eb safe, but clearly they wouldn’t be effective.

    2
  21. CSK says:

    @EddieInCA:
    I assume what Parscale is suggesting is that people will be so eager to attend this rally they’ll be coming from far and wide. The population of Oklahoma is 3.94 million, so presumably they’ll be streaming in from out-of-state as well.

    My guess? Parscale is floating this number because he’s scared of losing his job and wants to keep Trump happy, just like the rest of his advisers.

    5
  22. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    Hence my use of both the terms textualist and originalist in the comment. An originalist focuses on conserving the meaning of verbiage as it was written when it was written. For someone of that vein to infer that a Congress in the 1960s intended “sex” to cover sexual orientation as well is a gigantic leap. A pleasant one, no doubt about it, but gigantic nonetheless. No need to be pedantic.

    4
  23. CSK says:

    @Kathy:
    I did read an article in which Fauci was quoted as saying that warp speed did not mean that all necessary steps wouldn’t be taken to ensure that the vaccine was effective and safe. I hope he’s right.

    2
  24. inhumans99 says:

    So…to throw a splash of cold water on all the Biden articles that got everyone excited that President Trump might be on his way out I noticed in my news feed on my cellular phone today that Politico notes that internally there is a lot of confidence among state GOP operatives who keep their fingers on the pulse of things that President Trump is poised for a landslide re-election to reign supreme over us for another four years.

    Of course, the shaky ramp walk-down and water glass thing may catch up to President Trump during his second term but that just means we end up with Pence as President.

    This is why believe it or not I am a glass half-full guy when it comes to our future but I still feel that folks like Bill and others on this site are correct that we should be very careful not to count our chickens before they hatch. At least we have slightly less than 5 months to learn who our next President will be as the wait time until the next election is something I need to stop thinking about otherwise it can drive me a bit nuts with impatience.

    2
  25. Joe says:

    I was told by one of the lawyers here–possibly Doug–“that’s not how the Constitution works.”

    You can both be right, Neil Hudelson, because this was not a Constitutional decision – it was a statutory interpretation.

    3
  26. Stormy Dragon says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    An originalist focuses on conserving the meaning of verbiage as it was written when it was written.

    Which is why originalism is a bunch of philosophical hogwash, because there is not such thing. Textualism isn’t much better, but it’s not as openly ridiculous as originalism.

    4
  27. CSK says:

    Well, I just learned something fascinating from a commenter over at Hot Air: The whole point of the Covid-19 shutdowns was to keep people from attending rallies for Trump.

    I operate on the assumption that this belief is widespread in Cult45.

    5
  28. Stormy Dragon says:

    @CSK:

    Democratic activists should start a nationwide ad campaign on how licking each other spreads COVID19 and how important it is for everyone to stop licking each other as much as possible.

    Because I want to seep Republicans all start licking each other “to own the libs”.

    7
  29. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    I agree with you, and I agree with the reasoning of this ruling. I disagree with both textualism and originalism, fairly loudly, but that’s not the point. Someone who believes in both as strongly as Gorsuch has (both his prior rulings and his writings strongly, even vehemently, advance both viewpoints about the law) could not have been both faithful to either of them and authored this ruling. It proceeds from a premise – adding something which isn’t in the text and which can’t reasonably (even remotely) be suggested to have been intended by the legislators who enacted it – which a true textualist / originalist should reject out of hand. But he didn’t …

    The broader point is that maybe Gorsuch’s thinking is evolving. We’ll have to see where it goes in the future, but it’s a promising development.

    6
  30. Kathy says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    Gorsuch is, politically, kind of the illegitimate son of McConnell and Trump.

    Congratulations! He’s a lefty activist judge!

    1
  31. CSK says:

    The Supreme Court also declined to hear Trump’s challenge to California’s main sanctuary city law. Cult45 is going to have a collective stroke.

    4
  32. Sleeping Dog says:

    @inhumans99:

    I saw the Politico piece as well and noted that there seemed to be a lot of anecdotal happy talk from these state political directors and little hard polling. Depending on which group of friends I speak with Tiny will will win by a landslide or lose by one.

    That is not to say that Biden is a lock and the experience of Mike Dukakis and John Kerry is pertinent. Both had leads outside the margin of error in August and were beaten, Dukakis badly.

    3
  33. Kurtz says:

    @KM:

    I didn’t even see that post yesterday. Your post is spot on. I was already thinking about because of the podcast Sam Harris posted last week. I only listened to part of it. My eyes couldn’t take much more rolling after about 20 minutes or so

    The Milton Friedman argument that gets a ton of play on the right is ridiculous. Yes, historically the development of capitalism corresponded to a reduction in discrimination.

    But it isn’t like there were simultaneous political changes, right? Friedman also conveniently ignored the weaponization of the market during Jim Crow that occurred during his lifetime.

    The move to separate Economics from politics in the earliest 20th century has been an incredibly destructive force.

    3
  34. Teve says:

    That water glass thing is blowing my mind. He clearly couldn’t lift his right arm any higher.

    4
  35. Sleeping Dog says:

    @CSK:

    And chose to not hear several gun rights cases. Heads will explode!

    1
  36. Teve says:

    @Kurtz: Over a ten-year period, the number of people who drowned by falling into a swimming pool correlated strongly with the number of Nick Cage movies that year.

    no joke

    1
  37. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    It will get better.

    After people attending El PITO’s rallies begin to get ill from “atypical pneumonia,” they’ll accuse the fake news media of ignoring this latest and very real pandemic, in favor of their COVID-19 hoax.

    4
  38. Scott says:

    @Kathy: I’m not as worried about the vaccine being ineffective as I am about it being deadly.

    4
  39. Stormy Dragon says:

    @CSK:

    And now Trump has suddenly announced a press briefing at 2pm today, no doubt so he can melt down on camera about it.

    This is the best monday all year!

    1
  40. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    Either that or he’ll beat the slippery ramp trope to death.

    1
  41. Daryl and his brother Darryl says:

    @HarvardLaw92:
    @Stormy Dragon:
    The other thing to note here is that, in 2020, three Republican members of this court think it’s ok to discriminate.

    2
  42. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Scott:

    Same here. I’m pro vaccine, but I won’t take a COVID19 vaccine that hasn’t been approved by another western democracy, because I don’t trust the FDA to evaluate the safety of a COVID19 vaccine right now.

    5
  43. Scott says:

    Not to be cynical but do these various Supreme Court rulings and declinations (2nd amendment cases, sanctuary law) to take up cases have the smell of the Supreme Court thinking this is the time to tack to the middle?

    2
  44. Teve says:

    @Scott: Do you think that’s very likely? I mean, it would totally be on brand for 2020 that vaccination is the thing that turns us into The Walking Dead world, but what do you think are the odds that the vaccine will be lethal?

  45. Kathy says:

    @Scott:

    That would fall under the “unsafe” designation.

  46. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Daryl and his brother Darryl:

    I wouldn’t really go that far. I’d sat that three members of the court believe that Congress has the power to address the situation and has failed to do so, but the Constitution doesn’t empower them to speak for Congress on the issue when Congress has chosen not to speak at all. It’s not about ok / not ok. For them it’s just about a very different viewpoint about the law and the roles of judges.

    For what it’s worth, two of those three have had gay clerks. I wouldn’t attribute intent or bias that I don’t believe is there.

    5
  47. Stormy Dragon says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    For what it’s worth, two of those three have had gay clerks.

    Wow, you’re really going to “but my black friend” this?

    1
  48. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Scott:

    Doubtful. Certiorari only requires four votes, which tells us that there aren’t even enough votes on the liberal side of the court who think that a justiciable issue exists which merits examination. I would interpret it as more a case of “this is something the states need to resolve at the state level. It is not yet time for us to get involved”.

  49. CSK says:

    @Stormy Dragon: @Sleeping Dog:

    You know, I kind of think that yes, Trump will indeed use this press briefing not to speak of the Supreme Court decisions but to yammer on endlessly about how physically fit he is, and how steep and slippery the ramp was, representing a 100% fall risk even for the youthful and agile, which of course he is. He might even parade out a series of hopelessly cowed medicos to swear wearily that Donald J. Trump is the most fit specimen ever to occupy the White House, possessing the stamina and endurance of a 25-year-old triathlete.

    After all, as one earnest cultie pointed out the other day, Trump isn’t fat at all; it’s just that all the body armor he has to wear under his clothing makes him look just a trifle portly.

    5
  50. KM says:

    @Stormy Dragon:
    Indeed. One of the major reasons sane people are pro-vaccine is because they work. We expect them to be reasonably safe and effective (nothing’s 100%) and do it’s job without causing harm. For decades, that’s been the case to the point despite what anti-vaxxers claim. Any new vaccine gets scrutinized by the public, tentatively evaluated in the court of opinion and ultimately accepted because of the benefits they bring. Any COVID vaccine released under this Administration or ever associated with it has an unfair burden to overcome – namely, most people will be far more skeptically something sketchy didn’t happen. Having another country’s process certify would offer far more reassurance then even Fauci’s full-throated backing.

    MAGAts should stop and consider that Trump’s screwed up public trust so badly we’d take the word of a foreign nation’s government over his. The more people die from the “flu” in July, the more that distrust grows.

    2
  51. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    You seem to be prone to adding intent or implying bias which doesn’t exist. They’ve both had gay clerks who rave about them and about the experience of working for them, if you want the entire picture. Justices have complete autonomy in deciding who clerks for them, so if they were legitimately biased, they have a multitude of options for sidelining the ones they’re supposedly biased against which neither of them have exercised.

    Their opposition isn’t grounded in some inherent bias against gay people. It’s grounded in what they see as a bad approach to the law (which is made abundantly and crystal clear in the language of their dissents, which I suspect you haven’t bothered to read). I disagree with them about that, but to jump to the conclusion that their opposition must unavoidably be grounded in bigotry is you serving your own agenda, not reality. If you set out with the belief that ghosts are real, you will find ghosts everywhere.

    12
  52. Stormy Dragon says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    Nearly every bigot can point to specific individuals that they accept despite being in the group that’s the target of their bigotry. The fact they make exceptions doesn’t disprove that they bear animus for the group as a whole.

    4
  53. Scott says:

    @HarvardLaw92: Thanks. Glad you’re commenting. I know as much about law as I do epidemiology. Not that ever stops anyone from having an opinion.

    3
  54. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    You assuming that they bear animus is, again, your assumption, predicated on your agenda. Their acceptance of those individuals who you believe them to have animus for, for a role as intimately familiar as that of a SCOTUS clerk, argues against it. The clear language of their dissents argues against it. The evidence, therefore, argues against your assumption, but you cling to it anyway.

    If you set out intent on finding ghosts, you will find ghosts. Every time …

    4
  55. Stormy Dragon says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    The clear language of their dissents argues against it.

    Words are wind. I don’t care what they language of their dissents say, so much as what the results of their actions do.

    2
  56. Teve says:

    @CSK:

    You know, I kind of think that yes, Trump will indeed use this press briefing not to speak of the Supreme Court decisions but to yammer on endlessly about how physically fit he is, and how steep and slippery the ramp was, representing a 100% fall risk even for the youthful and agile, which of course he is. He might even parade out a series of hopelessly cowed medicos to swear wearily that Donald J. Trump is the most fit specimen ever to occupy the White House, possessing the stamina and endurance of a 25-year-old triathlete.

    One of the best comments I’ve ever seen on this site. 😀

    2
  57. MarkedMan says:

    @Kathy: I think you are being overly optimistic. It was unimaginable to me that the FDA would approve off label use of a drug with well known serious side effects (chloroquine) with not a single shred of evidence, based solely on the delusional ramblings of Trump. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if the October surprise is some kind of vaccine that showed promise in 300 patients, zero testing of long term side effects and with no way to manufacture it

    1
  58. KM says:

    OT: I’m both pleased and saddened to report family is finally accepting Labor Day Disney trip ain’t happening. DeSantis has pushed the 14 day quarantine for NY out indefinitely so a large part of our party can’t go. Since it’s a kind of all or nothing deal, it looks like nothing and there’s been a riot going on in my family for days now.

    Pros: Not gonna head to a hotbed of COVID around a major holiday. No longer the bad guy for arguing against the trip to the fanatical Disney fans in my family. DeSantis is now a swear word to them and it’s *hilarious* to see my blue state conservative elderly relations scream about discrimination and him falling for the “hoax”. As many are snowbirds and Annual Passholders, this is a particular slap in the face they won’t soon forget. I don’t think any of them can vote in FL but they’re online raising hell in their FB and forums. Any little bit to help turn the tide…..

    Cons: the idea of this trip is what got me through the last few months. As stressful as it sounded (especially with all the f*ckery going on lately with the dining plans and fasspasses), a vacation would REALLY be appreciated right now and Disney with 20% crowds is a once in a lifetime sight. Also, really not looking forward to the hassle of canceling airlines and other reservations. Rebooking alone is going to be a disaster so I’m pitching the idea of *two* vacations: one main one Labor Day next year and a smaller one in April. You can attend either or both so long as you can afford it, get the time off and feel comfortable doing so. This way, the ones that can’t wait only needed to bid their time till Spring instead of a whole calendar year.

    What’s the odds that next April will be on the path to normal or at least not plague central? Am I just kicking the can of disappointed family down the road?

    2
  59. MarkedMan says:

    @Stormy Dragon: What are you climbing over HL92 for?

    6
  60. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    In other words, “I am going to see only that which I wish to see and ignore anything that challenges my assumptions”.

    Good luck with the ghosts I guess …

    4
  61. Stormy Dragon says:

    @MarkedMan:

    What are you climbing over HL92 for?

    His past rants about how urban minorities are savages that need to be murdered by the police have not endeared him to me.

    5
  62. Kylopod says:

    @inhumans99:

    Politico notes that internally there is a lot of confidence among state GOP operatives who keep their fingers on the pulse of things that President Trump is poised for a landslide re-election to reign supreme over us for another four years.

    I agree with you about not counting our chickens before they hatch, and avoiding getting caught up in the moment; things can change very rapidly. That said, I question the insight that GOP operatives really have. Just because they’re professionals doesn’t mean they aren’t subject to bias and groupthink just like anyone else. After all, many of those same people were sure Romney was going to win in 2012. Likewise, most Democratic professionals were sure Hillary would win. I also have a very hard time taking seriously anyone who suggests Trump will win in a “landslide”–though I suspect their definition of landslide probably means anything over 300 EVs, which is absurd, but it is what it is. A win is still a win. If Trump loses MI and PA–which seems very likely at this point–but holds onto WI and the rest of the 2016 map, he’d win a razor-thin 270-268 victory (and losing ME-02 would throw the election to Congress, which would probably mean a Trump victory as the GOP still holds a majority in state delegations), but that wouldn’t stop him from calling it the greatest reelection landslide in world history. And he’d still retain power and almost certainly a GOP Senate, which is all that matters.

  63. MarkedMan says:

    @Stormy Dragon: Oh. I see. I don’t suppose you have any links to those comments?

    2
  64. CSK says:

    @Teve:
    I do my best. 😀

    And in other news…The Daily Beast is reporting that Mary Trump, Lardass’s niece and the daughter of his deceased older brother Fred, will be publishing this summer a memoir of her repulsive uncle that will reveal “harrowing and salacious” details about his life and career. The title is Too Much and Never Enough, and it will be released on August 11, just a few weeks before the Republican convention.

    1
  65. Stormy Dragon says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    No, I’m just not going to pretend a ruling that LGBT discrimination is okay does not hurt LGBT people because their was a bit of poetical fluff in it. The effect of the ruling is what matters, not its aesthetics.

    2
  66. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    And, again, you add things to the story that support your assumptions. Rioters. Looters. Not urban minorities. Rioters and looters come in every shade of the rainbow. The quality that merits force being deployed against them, irrespective of their particular shade of color, is … wait for it …

    The fact that they are rioting and looting. Destroying property. What a concept … 🙄

    4
  67. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    Where did any of them say it was ok? By all means, provide evidence of this assertion.

    Helpful hint – the language of those dissents you haven’t read refutes it, but hey … since when do we actually need evidence to support things 🙄

    3
  68. Stormy Dragon says:
  69. Teve says:

    A lawyer is taking Devon Nunes’s money instead of telling him ‘you’re talking about violating the first amendment you dumb dipshit.’

    linky

    1
  70. Stormy Dragon says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    Rioters. Looters. Not urban minorities. Rioters and looters come in every shade of the rainbow.

    @HarvardLaw92:

    Riddle me this: Maryland, and Baltimore in particular, has some of the most generous welfare & assistance programs int the nation. A single mother living in Baltimore (of which there is a surplus, given the facts that 2/3rd of the city’s births are to unwed mothers, and 60% of the city’s households are headed by single parents) qualifies for a buffet of assistance. TANF, SNAP, Medicaid, Housing Assistance, Utilities Assistance, WIC, Emergency Food Assistance, etc. The list goes on and on, to the point where a single mom with 2 kids in Baltimore receives the equivalent of $18.35 an hour in benefits.

    We’re throwing money at them, and yet nothing has changed in West Baltimore in my lifetime. Nothing has changed in Sandtown. We have the same shiftless, lazy people (which is what they are – uncomfortable facts …) sitting around on steps that we had when I was a child. We’ve thrown literally hundreds of billions of dollars at the problem, and yet we’re worse off than when we started. You can’t expect anything different from people who expect nothing from themselves, and that’s just how it is.

    Baltimore has a black mayor. A black state’s attorney. The bulk of the police force is black, as is the police commissioner. The fire chief is black. 8 of the 15 members of the Baltimore City Council (a majority …) are black. To assert that these people have no political power, that they are unrepresented, in the face of those facts is frankly bullshit.

    Yea, I get slavery this, and redlining that, but you know, all that ended long ago. I’m fed up with the endless historical excuses that are offered up to excuse the fact that quite a large chunk of this community just doesn’t give a damn. They’d rather sit around and blame everyone and everything else but themselves for a problem that they do little, if anything, of their own volition to alleviate. They live in a hell of their own creation, and I just don’t feel sorry for them any longer. They’ve burned that goodwill up. My sympathy now is reserved for the people whose distasteful job it is to corral them and keep them under control so the rest of us can live our lives out in some semblance of order.

    If you consider that to be trolling, you have bigger problems than being offended by me. I’d suggest spending a few weeks in West Baltimore as a remedy.

    Yeah, totally directed toward “rioters and looters” and not urban minorities in general.

    7
  71. Joe says:

    I applaud your efforts, HarvardLaw92, but Stormy Dragon isn’t interested in anyone discussing what the law is, but only what Stormy wants it to be. While I don’t doubt that judges too frequently let their politics leak into their rulings, a judiciary where they all flatly ignored what the legislature did do in favor of what they believe the legislature should have done would be a nightmare.

    2
  72. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Joe:

    Stormy Dragon isn’t interested in anyone discussing what the law is, but only what Stormy wants it to be

    You know, except for SCOTUS agreeing with me by a 6-3 margin IN THE VERY CASE UNDER DISCUSSION.

    2
  73. wr says:

    @inhumans99: “This is why believe it or not I am a glass half-full guy when it comes to our future but I still feel that folks like Bill and others on this site are correct that we should be very careful not to count our chickens before they hatch. ”

    I appreciate the intent here, but my God am I sick of this message. This is not 2016. I have not seen one Democrat anywhere saying “man, we got this thing locked up — let’s chill.” Even people celebrating polls insist on adding that anything can happen, that polls can be wrong, that the election is months away, and we all need to work harder than ever.

    There are so many things in this world to worry about. Please stop worrying that readers of this blog are so confident about the election we’re all just coasting. And please please please stop lecturing people to stop doing something they are not in any way doing.

    2
  74. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Joe:

    I’m well acquainted with him/her, believe me …

    And I agree, running to the extreme with respect to justicial interpretation invites chaos. Ideally the legislature will act to rectify inequalities in the law, but sometimes judicial interpretation is required in order to have a functioning system of laws relevant to the “now” as opposed to the “then” when they were created.

    I’m sympathetic to both arguments, to be honest. Judges summarily inventing things that just do not exist in the law at all is bad. Judges inferring things that a reasonable person would infer in the “now” is ok, even if those things weren’t intended in the “then” of their writing.

    5
  75. wr says:

    @Sleeping Dog: ” saw the Politico piece as well and noted that there seemed to be a lot of anecdotal happy talk from these state political directors and little hard polling. ”

    I’d find this easier to believe if Trump hadn’t just hired pollsters to explain why other polls are all wrong and threatened to sue CNN for reporting on their own polling. This does not exactly reek of confidence.

    4
  76. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    And I’ll totally stand behind that statement as the indictment of paternalistic liberal policies and the destruction they have wrought on that community that it is.

    If you want to relitigate a 5 year old argument in an attempt at character assassination or silencing dissent (which seems to be a popular tactic of yours), by all means, let’s do that.

    7
  77. Kathy says:

    @MarkedMan:

    It was approved for compassionate use, as I recall. That’s not bad, considering there are no established successful treatments for COVID-19, except general supportive care, and there were some early indications it might work.

    On other pandemic news, more personal, work-issued masks oscillate between the alien torture devices I ranted about last week, and decent triple-layer ones which seal well and fit comfortably (or at least I’ve gotten used to wearing them).

    I’m still looking for other masks, preferably disposable ones.

    On my personal lock down, due to work I had to move my vacation from the 17th to the 22nd. Hopefully nothing else will show up. COVID-19 cases are still rising, and I need a break from people not wearing masks.

    1
  78. Scott says:

    @MarkedMan: @Kathy:

    Speaking of hydroxychloroquine:

    Live updates: FDA pulls emergency authorization for hydroxychloroquine as covid-19 treatment

    The Food and Drug Administration has withdrawn its emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus patients. President Trump had repeatedly promoted the antimalarial drug as a way to prevent or treat covid-19.

    The agency said Monday in a statement that “it is no longer reasonable to believe” the drug may be effective against covid-19 or that its benefits outweigh “known and potential risks.”

    The move comes after months of questions and criticisms about the FDA’s authorization of the product, which can cause potential heart-rhythm problems.

    But what did you have to lose?

    3
  79. Jen says:

    @KM:

    a vacation would REALLY be appreciated right now and Disney with 20% crowds is a once in a lifetime sight.

    We are struggling with this very concept in our household. Not to Disney, but really any vacation…I detest crowds and the idea of less-than-packed flights, empty hotels, etc. would normally make this (or the next 6-8 months or so) an ideal time to travel…if I didn’t have high blood pressure. Trying to figure out when the “right” time is to reschedule the two trips we had on the calendar this year but postponed has been an exercise in futility.

    If you figure out the magic timing, please share your tips here. 🙂

    1
  80. MarkedMan says:

    @MarkedMan: … and I just saw that the FDA backtracked on chloroquine. All well and good, but doesn’t change the fact that they probably caused the deaths of hundreds of people because FDA head Stephen Hahn was afraid of the Moron in Chief. If Hahn had been head of the FDA 70 years ago we would have had Thalidomide handed out like candy.

    1
  81. MarkedMan says:

    @Stormy Dragon: Hmm. I’m not going to read through that whole thread (“Harvard” had 420 hits! I thought there was something wrong with my browser search function). But from what I gathered HL92 believes that a lot of the blame for the violence endemic in certain parts of Baltimore lies with the choices the people living there make. He also believed that the cops most likely did not deliberately give Freddy Gray a rough ride and that Gray was probably guilty of something.

    I think while the first part might have some truth to it, it is also woefully inadequate. I think the second part is blatantly overly generous to the police.

    Bottom line, I disagree with him about these two things. That doesn’t mean I disagree with him about everything, or feel the need to cut him off.

    4
  82. Scott says:

    @MarkedMan:

    If Hahn had been head of the FDA 70 years ago we would have had Thalidomide handed out like candy.

    Closer than you think. A little forgotten science history. Long but highly readable. And worthwhile.

    The Heroine of the FDA

    The president was beaming. The woman beside him — a brunette wearing proper gloves and hat — also smiled, shyly. She was tall, her dark hair lightly streaked with gray. This was the hero who saved the United States from the tragedy of thalidomide, a drug often prescribed to pregnant women that could result in serious birth defects such as short, flipper-like arms and legs. The year was 1962, and in a ceremony in the White House Rose Garden, Frances Oldham Kelsey had just received the President’s Award for Distinguished Federal Civilian Service from John F. Kennedy.

    But Kelsey’s body of work goes well beyond thalidomide. Scientists still benefit from changes she and her colleagues set in motion. Countries communicate more efficiently about common medical problems thanks to her, and researchers know that drugs — and viruses — that appear to have little or no side-effects on pregnant women can be devastating to their developing babies. Her importance in medical history can’t be overstated.

    5
  83. MarkedMan says:

    @Scott: Truly a hero.

    @Kathy:

    It was approved for compassionate use, as I recall. That’s not bad

    I develop Medical Devices for a living and take the duty of care inherent in such products very seriously. Drugs require even more care and restraint. Very few people are anxious to get a surgery on a whim (although while the number is small, it is not insignificant), but everyone seems to want to choke down any pill even the worst quack tosses their way. We rely on agencies like the FDA to stand up against big Phama and other vested interests and keep things on the scientific straight and narrow. In the case of chloroquine, a drug with known dangerous side effects was approved for use in seriously ill people based on… nothing.

    The fact that it displayed activity against the virus in the test tube? Big whup – it had displayed antiviral activity against other viruses in the past, but didn’t pan out for any of those. And lots of drugs show various test tube activity, but you don’t prescribe them to sick people based on that. If we did, we would have hundreds, perhaps thousands of “treatments” for just about every known viral or bacterial disease. “Hydrofluoric Acid displays activity in removing stains from marble countertops. Let’s prescribe it as a tooth whitener!”

    And then there was the one study from a French doctor, a known showboater who often releases studies that grab headlines but don’t hold up over the long term.

    It was morally wrong to promote chloroquine as a treatment. And despite their weasel wording, that was exactly what they were doing.

    4
  84. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Teve: Hey, grifter’s gotta grift. The fact that the griftee is Devin Nunes is simply karma being a beeyotch. 😀 😛

  85. Kathy says:

    @MarkedMan:

    I won’t go to the mat for Trump’s Snake Oil, but I must ask why various clinical trials of hydroxychloroquine in several countries?

    Was that all trump’s whim, or was there something that warranted trials?

    Faced with a deadly disease with no treatment, people tend to try all sorts of things. Remember an attempt to treat AIDS with immunosuppressant drugs? It didn’t work.

  86. Jen says:

    Michael has probably already seen this, but a very nice shout out to his wife’s work in this NPR piece.

    2
  87. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @HarvardLaw92: Well since you are still standing behind your statement…its relevant. You even threw out the shiftless card. Its obvious you never spent a day in an over policed community or you wouldn’t have fixed your pu@@y pink lips to say the quiet part out loud. I guess these people have no right to be left alone on their property without the Police demeaning, insulting,
    or shooting them.
    I can guarantee if I sic’d the police on your neighborhood for rampant white collar crime and child porn…. you would protest the indignity of being stopped and questioned/demeaned by the Police after 5,6,7,8…encounters. Apparently, people that cant afford expensive Harvard lawyers have no dignity so they have to suck it down and be “controlled”. Maybe those Billions thrown at American Blacks would have been better spent on muzzles and shackles… effin @!&&3r$. By God, the White man can hate…but NOTHING on earth sparks his disdain more than a man poor AND Black.

    @MarkedMan: He is part of the problem and more dangerous than your typical person because he’s a lawyer. You can steal millions in this country with virtually impunity…but God help em if a Black kid sells a $20 sack of weed. You can get billions of bailouts from the government and no one gets angry…unless its millions in crumbs that went to those ungrateful @!&&3rs that HL92 isnt seeing the proper ROI on.

    I’m not even angry because his sentiment, IMO is very common amongst whites rich and poor. I think I’ll coin a new phrase…Black Derangement Syndrome. No known cure.

    7
  88. Monala says:

    @inhumans99: The Bulwark responded to this with an article that suggests the GOP is really hoping to lose. In words that sound very similar to what I have heard liberals say about the far-left, they wrote:

    The GOP is much more like a therapy group, where the people left are less interested in electoral outcomes than in their own feelings.

    This transformation started with Trump untethering the party from its ideological moorings. Because once you give up on free trade or liberty or small government or fiscal responsibility as lode stars, you lose objective purposes for the use of power.

    Instead, your movement is reduced to performative emoting and the exercise of feelings.

    And if your feelings are the payoff, then you don’t actually need to win elections.

    In fact, I’d go a step further: For a political movement focused on the cathartic airing of grievances, losing elections is actually better than winning.

    Winning means that you have to spend the next cycle working, making compromises, and defending your achievements or lack thereof.

    But losing only amplifies the emotional resonance of being aggrieved. It confirms your sense that the world is against you and that the Other is out to get you. It confers the delicious righteousness of martyrdom.

    #Losing is the real #Winning.

    2
  89. Monala says:

    @Jim Brown 32: thank you. Ditto to all you wrote.

    3
  90. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @inhumans99:

    Politico notes that internally there is a lot of confidence among state GOP operatives who keep their fingers on the pulse of things that President Trump is poised for a landslide re-election to reign supreme over us for another four years.

    Remember Karl Rove and how he had the math? I put this in the same category. The GOP has hitched their wagons to trump and gone full cult. For them to even think trump might be going down is absolute heresy and would result in being rhetorically burned at the stake.

    Could trump win? I certainly do not discount the possibility of another electoral college fluke letting him get by in another squeaker. BUT… Anyone who thinks trump is going to win in a landslide is seriously delusional.

    1
  91. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Jim Brown 32:

    Spare me the melodrama, Meryl. There is no Oscar to perform for here.

  92. CSK says:

    Well, Brad Parscale now claims that there have been over one million requests for tickets to Trump’s Tulsa rally, which means that slightly over one quarter of the population of Oklahoma is planning on showing up. Oh, sure, they are. Of course. Indeed.

    Parscale adds that each of the incredibly lucky recipients of tickets will be given a face mask, access to hand sanitizers, and a temperature check at the door. Trump will not be happy about the masks. I wonder how his adoring fans will feel. Will they put up with a mask in order to bask in the presence of the divine one?

    1
  93. Tyrell says:

    @Scott: It would take a lot of data and information to be me to a vaccination, regardless of the administration. The last time I got a flu vaccine, I got the flu for the only time. My doctor told me that those only had a 35% effective rate.
    Strep and staph infections are more dangerous. More than 90,000 people a year die from hospital infections. That is a grim statistic. Overall, not much has changed in hospital procedures over the decades. Medication, surgeries, and technology, yes.

    1
  94. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @HarvardLaw92: Not many Blacks there either….probably too shiftless and lazy…buh bye.

  95. Matt says:

    @Tyrell: Effectiveness varies year to year with 40-60% being typical. You took one random statistical happening and ran with it as proof of everything. It’s like those who refuse to wear a seatbelt because some people still die wearing one…

    “hospital procedures” is a term that could mean so much it’s basically useless in the context that you tried to use it in…

  96. Michael Cain says:

    @CSK: A circle with a radius of 350 miles (a 5-hour drive at 70 mph) centered on Tulsa includes a population of just over 28M. Some people are crazier than that, so I have little problem believing that a million have signed up.

    1
  97. Jax says:

    How can ANYBODY with even a few brain cells to rub together listen to anything Trump says and think “YEAH, this dude’s a master, I want HIM running the country!”

    “If we didn’t do the testing, we’d have very few cases, if any.”

    Gee, I wish that worked for pregnancy. Heads up, ladies, if you don’t take the pregnancy test, you can’t get pregnant!!!

    FML, we are so hosed if he wins another term.

    3
  98. CSK says:

    @Michael Cain:
    Yeah, I know: I was joking about the population of Oklahoma. As I think I said sometime earlier today, this could be just Parscale trying to keep his job. I’m sure he’s aware of the reports that Trump wants to get rid of him, and I’m equally sure he knows that you don’t bring Trump bad news and expect to keep working for him. So…he makes up some fable about how MORE THAN ONE MILLION PEOPLE are frantic to attend this rally, feeds it to Trump, and voila! keeps his job.

    1
  99. Grewgills says:

    @Stormy Dragon: @HarvardLaw92:
    Can we not go down this rabbit hole again?
    HL agreed with the decision. You agreed with the decision.
    The plain writing of the dissent of Kavanaugh at least

    the important victory achieved today by gay and lesbian Americans. Millions of gay and lesbian Americans have worked hard for many decades to achieve equal treatment in fact and in law. They have exhibited extraordinary vision, tenacity, and grit—battling often steep odds in the legislative and judicial arenas, not to mention in their daily lives. They have advanced powerful policy arguments and can take pride in today’s result.

    would argue against his dissent being based in bigotry. He may not object strongly enough to bigotry under color of law to set aside his judicial philosophy (which I find flawed), but he didn’t appear to make this decision based on personal or political bigotry against gay or trans folk.

    HL did make some bigoted comments during the Baltimore protests. He had family in harms way and got heated and some racism and support of institutional racism was revealed. This seemed to stem from his prioritizing of law and order above justice and equality under the law. It was shameful. He admitted as much (for at least some of what he said) and apologized back then. It doesn’t need to come out years later on tangentially related topics.
    That said, it’s a free thread, so continue on if that’s really how you want to spend your time.

    6
  100. MarkedMan says:

    @Kathy: A clinical trial is nothing like a general use. A trial is proposed by clinicians who have to show expertise in the drug and all its side effects and interactions with other drugs. You weed out people that may react badly. You administer and track dosage. You have protocols in place to continuously and tightly monitor people. And you pull them off at the first sign of trouble. Instead the FDA basically said, “hey, any doctor out there! Hand them out like candy!” And that’s what happened.

    1
  101. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: Meh… Make them out of red filter paper and print MAGA! and KAG! on them and call them souveniers. Mask problem solved–both directions.

    1
  102. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    If Trump’s campaign committee sees this idea, they’ll run with it. And charge the suckers $5 each for the genuine souvenir MAGA and KAG masks.

  103. Kathy says:

    @Jax:

    How can ANYBODY with even a few brain cells to rub together listen to anything Trump says and think “YEAH, this dude’s a master, I want HIM running the country!”

    I can imagine historians in the XXIII Century arguing about it.

    You know, I’ve never been impressed by a single thing he’s ever said. In the rare occasions when he says something unobjectionable, and the even rarer ones when he utters something I agree with, I have to wonder what ulterior motive he has, or whether I’ve been wrong all along.

    One thing, though, is a common poll question regarding approval of a president’s, or Trump’s, handling of the economy. I think approval tracks with how good the economy is, and perhaps more so with how good one’s financial situation is. If I’m right about this, Trump’s approval regarding the economy should go down as conditions keep not improving, or not improving enough.

    1
  104. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    Trump will not be happy about the masks. I wonder how his adoring fans will feel. Will they put up with a mask in order to bask in the presence of the divine one?

    Remember the fascist political rally scenes in Pink Floyd’s “The Wall”? Like that: “..And that one’s wearing a mask! If I had my way, I’d have all of you shot!”

  105. Michael Cain says:

    @Kathy:

    I can imagine historians in the XXIII Century arguing about it.

    Historians in the 23rd Century will argue about one thing: how could they not see what a disaster +4 °C was going to be? Everything else will be regarded as a sideshow.

    5
  106. Tyrell says:

    @Teve: He needs to take on WWE’s King Corbin. Bray Wyatt would also be an interesting opponent if he showed up as the Fiend.
    The Undertaker literally buried his opponent at Wrestlemania, using a real tractor.
    WWE carries on while the NBA, NHL, and MLB are still talking. NASCAR is in back in business too, with people in the stands.

  107. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Cain: I think Trump is an important part of the “how could they not see what a disaster +4 °C was going to be?” question.

    Assuming there are historians in the 23rd century, or 22nd, they are going to be looking at why the world’s superpower flinched from reality and elected an idiot who would just lie to them and tell them it was all going to be ok, and that America would be great again. Perhaps the question will be why didn’t every other nation elect a similar idiot…

    1
  108. Jax says:

    @Gustopher: It goes back to before Trump, though. He’s like the whitehead on the huge pimple of American idiocy. It’s taken decades to form. I mean, I remember when all of my friends had teenage sisters who were pissed off because they couldn’t use a can of Aquanet per day on their 80’s hair because there was a hole in the ozone layer. That’s when I, personally, started noticing that people (particularly in the US) were really fucking selfish when it came to “being inconvenienced”. We hosted exchange students during that time, and it was something every single student commented on….how selfish people in the US were.

    3
  109. Monala says:

    @Grewgills: I’m sorry, your post is bullsh*t. If HarvardLaw was really sorry, he wouldn’t be so defensive five years later. He’d say something like, “yeah, you’re right, back then I was angry about [IIRC, he had a family member injured in the riots], and said some things that were uncalled for.” But that’s not his attitude now at all.

    Furthermore, the content of his post five years ago is stunningly racist, blaming not those specific people who hurt his loved one, but all poor black Baltimorans, using disgustingly racist stereotypes. If it came from one of our usual conservative trolls, there’s no way you’d be excusing it.

    1
  110. An Interested Party says:

    Ted Cruz just challenged actor Ron Perlman to a wrestling match.

    This would be the same Ted Cruz who now routinely kisses the ass of someone who insulted the physical appearance of Cruz’s wife in the past…yeah, Cruz is a real tough hombre…

    You can steal millions in this country with virtually impunity…but God help em if a Black kid sells a $20 sack of weed.

    Or pays for something with an allegedly fake $20 bill

    1
  111. Michael Cain says:

    @Jax:

    It goes back to before Trump, though.

    And will no doubt continue after him. One of the two major parties in the US is committed to the notion that no action is necessary/possible. Does anyone here think that if Ted Cruz had won we wouldn’t be rolling back emission regulations? Or that if Trump loses this November, 48-50 Republican Senators won’t do everything they can to block any action? Or that the five Justices who have decided that the regulatory agencies must be reined in will abruptly change their mind? There are at least a couple of cases in the pipeline that will give the SCOTUS an opportunity to reverse Massachusetts v. EPA. Kennedy was the critical vote and Roberts was incensed about it. Kavanaugh won’t vote the same way.

    2
  112. Monala says:

    @An Interested Party: Actually, Ted Cruz challenged Ron Perlman to a wrestling match with Jim Jordan.

  113. An Interested Party says:

    Actually, Ted Cruz challenged Ron Perlman to a wrestling match with Jim Jordan.

    Like I wrote, a real tough hombre…