Pearl Harbor Day Forum

Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter


  1. sam says:

    Navy Aircraft Carrier to Be Named for Black Pearl Harbor Veteran

    Doris Miller was working as a mess attendant on the battleship West Virginia the morning of Dec. 7, 1941, when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. An alarm sounded, and as the ship drew heavy fire, Mr. Miller raced to assist the West Virginia’s fatally wounded commanding officer. He also fired a machine gun against enemy planes.

    For his bravery and “distinguished devotion to duty” that day, Mr. Miller was awarded the prestigious Navy Cross, the second-highest military decoration [of the Navy], in 1942, making him the first African-American to receive the medal.

    Doris Miller was killed later in the war when the escort carrier he was serving on was sunk.

  2. OzarkHillbilly says:
  3. OzarkHillbilly says:

    And here we have a man NOT killed by a great white shark: Victim of Kangaroo Island shark attack details terrifying ordeal

    In a statement released from his hospital bed, the man said being attacked by the shark on his left side “was like being hit by a truck….It bit me around my back, buttock and elbow, and took a chunk out of my board,” the man said. He added that he “got a glimpse of the shark as it let go and disappeared” before he paddled to the beach still holding his board.
    Mr Rushby said the extent of the man’s injuries were “serious” and “catastrophic”, and that it was “remarkable” the man was able to swim to shore and walk such a distance to find help. “With the extent of his injuries, this was quite remarkable and very lucky that he was able to do that” Mr Rushby said. He said say the man is lucky to be alive and was “very brave considering the serious nature of his injuries”.

    “It’s amazing what people can do,” he added.

  4. Scott says:

    This is a reasonable straighr forward new release from Operation Warp Speed. Interesting details on logistics of vaccine distribution.

    This Week in Operation Warp Speed – Dec. 4, 2020

    One item among others:

    Pfizer published details about the specially designed, temperature-controlled shippers which can maintain its vaccine at recommended storage conditions (-70°C ±10°C) for extended periods of time without any additional equipment except dry ice. The company noted the shipper can maintain temperature for 10 days unopened, which allows for global distribution. Once open, a vaccination center may use the specially designed shippers as a temporary storage solution to maintain the recommended storage conditions up to 30 days, with re-icing every five days in accordance with the handling instructions. If requested with the order, dry ice and a dry ice supply kit will be provided by Operation Warp Speed through McKesson’s contract with UPS Health, within 24 hours of vaccine delivery to refill the thermal shipping container for the first re-ice. Subsequent dry ice refreshes will be required by the administration site

  5. Scott says:

    Is Congress done with Trump?

    NDAA underscores GOP differences with Trump on defense

    Congress is poised to send President Trump an annual defense bill that breaks with him on policy after policy.

    The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) includes a requirement to strip Confederate names from military bases in three years, and excludes a repeal of a tech liability shield — two clear losses for Trump.

    It separately takes aim at everything from Trump’s troop withdrawals in Germany and Afghanistan to his relationship with Turkey to even his signature border wall.

  6. CSK says:

    Should you require a refresher course, here’s a timeline of Trump’s greatest hits:

  7. CSK says:

    The NYTimes, CNN and Business Insider are reporting that Bill Barr, fed up with Trump’s bullying, is considering quitting before Trump leaves office.

  8. charon says:

    Updating/tracking Covid new cases:

    Covid data at this site:

    7-day rolling average. new cases/100K:

    U.S. National Totals:: ..

    12/07/2020:   59.6/100K  

    11/29/2020:   49.4/100K

    11/22/2020:   51.4/100K  

    11/15/2020 :  44.1/100K

    11/08/2020    33.1/100K

    11/01/2020     24.2/100K


    U,S. Midwest states:

    12/07/2020:   78.9/100K  

    11/29/2020:   79.7/100K

    11/22/2020 :   91.3/100K  

    11/15/2020 :   88.4/100K

    11/08/2020     62.2/100K

    11/01/2020     44.3/100K


    U,S. West states:

    12/07/2020:   59.0/100K  

    11/29/2020:   46.7/100K

    11/22/2020 : 44.0/100K  

    11/15/2020 : 33.8/100K

    11/08/2020     24.4/100K

    11/01/2020    18.5/100K



    12/07/2020:   75.1/100K  

    11/29/2020:   53.9/100K

    11/22/202    43.7/100K

    11/15/2020 :  30.8/100K

    11/08/2020     22.4/100K

    11/01/2020    18.5/100K

  9. charon says:

    It really is a death cult:

    NEWS — Senate Republicans have invited a leading anti-vaxxer to be the lead witness at a Homeland Security committee hearing on Tuesday at a time when the US is preparing the largest-ever vaccination campaign to fight Covid. From

    Anti-Vaccine Doctor Has Been Invited to Testify Before Senate Committee

    The selection of Dr. Jane M. Orient as federal health officials are trying to promote a vaccine to end the coronavirus pandemic prompted harsh criticism from Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York.

  10. Sleeping Dog says:


    When you’ve lost Bill Barr…

  11. charon says:

    Mental health issues? Politicizing this stuff seems to have stirred up the nutters.

    NEW: The manager of a Staten Island bar who has repeatedly and flamboyantly defied NY’s coronavirus restrictions hit a sheriff’s deputy with his car as he unsuccessfully tried to escape arrest.


  12. CSK says:

    @Sleeping Dog:
    The Trumpkins are ardently hoping Barr does quit and are suggesting Sidney Powell to replace him.

  13. charon says:

    Mr. Presti, 34, faces 10 charges, including assault with intent to cause injury to an officer, reckless endangerment, reckless driving and resisting arrest, according to a criminal complaint filed on Sunday. He was released on his own recognizance and has a hearing scheduled for January, court records show.

    Joseph Fucito, the city sheriff, said the deputy had been released from the hospital but sustained fractures in each of his shin bones.

  14. Sleeping Dog says:


    Solid choice.

  15. CSK says:

    @Sleeping Dog:
    It never seems to occur to them–publicly, anyway–to wonder why the turnover in the Trump Maladministration is so frequent and so rapid.

  16. charon says:


    It looks like the sweetheart of the Senate GOP/Ron Johnson is a real loon:

    The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a relatively small but notoriously loud group of “conservative” cranks and batshit crazy fundies who wail against, in particular, abortion, vaccination, the idea of universal health care coverage, and the fact that evidence- and science-based medicine as placing unacceptable limits on physician autonomy (it is obviously listed by Quackwatch). Jane Orient is the executive director. The physical address of the organization in Tucson (a suite in a medical center) is also the address for the equally insane Doctors for Disaster Preparedness, the American Health Legal Foundation, the AAPS Educational Foundation, Physicians for Civil Defense, the Southwestern Institute of Science, and the Southern Arizona Association for Play Therapy. Jane Orient is also listed as contact for the majority of these other organizations. Common to all is that they defend all the extreme religious right positions (usually denial) related to any topic in science and medicine, and various forms of woo and anti-vaccine propaganda. In short, Jane Orient may hence be one of the most comprehensive crackpots in our Encyclopedia thus far. You can read about her arguments against vaccines, citing the Geiers, here. Her claims have been cited by various anti-vaccine organizations, who wouldn’t recognize a crank if they ate one.

    There is an obvious reason for publishing that last one. Orient is a faculty member at Oregon Institute for Science and Medicine, a denialist think tank run by Arthur Robinson, and – of course – the institution behind said petition. And yes, Orient is, of course, also a vehement global warming denialist. To make sure she has maxed out her commitment to denialism and hatred of science, Orient is also a creationist and signatory to the sadly silly Discovery Institute initiated petition A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism.

    But the thing is: the organization is actually influential and has a significant say in policy decisions. Members include Ron & Rand Paul, Paul Broun and former Louisiana congressman John Cooksey, as well as Joe Mercola and Russell Blaylock, which is an impressive and rather frightening lineup.

  17. MarkedMan says:

    @charon: Given the lineup, I suspect someone like the Mercer’s are funding it. That Congressional crew definitely tends to follow the money.

  18. Scott says:

    @charon: The President of the BOD of this organization lives in the same school district as me. She is tight with our Tea Party congressman (Chip Roy) who regularly rails against the ACA and socialized healthcare (Chip Roy is basically a life long government employee who had taxpayers pay for his cancer treatments and even had state funded insurance for a short time after he left state government to work for Ted Cruz). I have never met her, thank goodness.

    She is an ophthalmologist by trade like Rand Paul and Bashar al-Assad.

  19. Sleeping Dog says:


    We know he only hires the best people and is a social Darwinist, so obviously, someone comes along that is an improvement over the incumbent. Just like Joe is an improvement over the Former Reality Show Host.

  20. Scott says:

    Interesting article on how we are linguistically inadequate to describe what is going on politically.

    ‘This Must Be Your First’

    Much debate has ensued about what exactly to call whatever Trump is attempting right now, and about how worried we should be. It’s true, the whole thing seems ludicrous—the incoherent lawsuits, the late-night champagne given to official election canvassers in Trump hotels, the tweets riddled with grammatical errors and weird capitalization. Trump has been broadly acknowledged as “norm shattering” and some have argued that this is just more of his usual bluster, while others have pointed out terminological issues with calling his endeavors a coup. Coup may not quite capture what we’re witnessing in the United States right now, but there’s also a danger here: Punditry can tend to focus too much on decorum and terminology, like the overachieving students so many of us once were, conflating the ridiculous with the unserious. The incoherence and the incompetence of the attempt do not change its nature, however, nor do those traits allow us to dismiss it or ignore it until it finally fails on account of its incompetence.

    Part of the problem is that we haven’t developed linguistic precision to put a name to it all—not just to what’s been happening since November, but to the processes within which it’s embedded. That’s dangerous, because language is a tool of survival. The Inuit have many words for snow—because their experience demands that kind of exactness. (The claim had been disputed, but the latest research affirms it.) “These people need to know whether ice is fit to walk on or whether you will sink through it. It’s a matter of life or death,” the linguist Willem DeReuse told New Scientist.

  21. KM says:

    We must be careful: there is a difference between mental health issues and batcrap crazy – one does not necessarily equal the other. It’s really easy to dismiss this crap as mental illness when it’s not.

    Mental illnesses are just that, diagnosable disorders with set symptoms, criteria and causes. It might be biological in nature or be caused by a known external factor like PTSD. However, it’s never a choice and never really goes away no matter how well you manage it.

    The other is abuse of normal thought processes to end up at the extremes of “normal”. As insane as they sound, the cray-cray do have a “logic” that can be understood. It’s not “the dog barked a midnight shotgun blast through the TV” but rather “I think/feel X is caused by Y due to process Z” even if that’s completely illogical to most people. You can follow QAnon’s trail of thought; you cannot follow a schizophrenic’s. People who join a cult are generally not mentally ill but are rather in a fragile or transitional place that makes them more susceptible to the cult’s BS. It’s a choice to believe and act as they do because it satisfies a need. Anti-maskers and QAnon attract people who want to act like this and now they have a reason to.

    Maskholes are not mentally ill – they’re assholes, hence the name. Being self-centered is a personality trait, not a symptom of a disorder in and of itself. Someone willing to ignore reality and endanger others for their own financial gain is selfish, not ill. Someone willing to run from the cops resisting arrest is aware of what’s happening and the consequences of their actions despite the Thin Blue Line schtick. Someone willing to ignore having the liquor license pulled months ago and thinks they’re an “autonomous zone” is rebellious and stubborn in nature, not sick. Presti is an asshole willing to kill others in several ways to do what he wants – either by virus or vehicle, that man feels he’s entitled to end your life rather than inconvenience him.

  22. gVOR08 says:

    @Sleeping Dog: Atrios has a take on Barr quitting (assuming he actually does). He’ll intimate that he was really fired. He’ll join the legion of Very Serious People who joined the administration out of patriotic duty to temper Trump’s excesses. That will be his ticket back into the good graces of our legal establishment. It is probably unfair to pick on Ben Wittes, who’s endorsement of Barr was heavily qualified. But a lot of VSPs pushed Barr as a stand up guy, despite the evidence, and they’d like to believe they were right after all. Barr will probably even get a book out of it.

  23. Teve says:

    ’this must be your first’ by Zeynep Tufekci

    Trump is attempting a coup, for all intents and purposes. And Republicans aren’t fighting it.

  24. CSK says:

    According to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, an Infowars speaker at a rally outside Dallas city hall complained that Governor Greg Abbott doesn’t stand for the national anthem.

    Abbott is, of course, a paraplegic who can’t stand for the national anthem. It’s a really bright bunch from Infowars, isn’t it?

  25. charon says:


    Salon ran a piece recently on the Trump phenomenon, repeated at Raw Story, describing how the MAGA ‘s get emotionally involved and worked up.

    More than eighty years ago, a then-obscure German philosopher wrote an essay that foresaw the essential reason behind President Donald Trump’s enduring political appeal. His name was Walter Benjamin; born to a Jewish family in Berlin, Benjamin was present for a pivotal moment in history, and watched Hitler rise to power. By the time he wrote his most famous essay, he was an exile living in France amidst financial hardships, having recognized that the Reichstag fire three years earlier signified that the Nazis had achieved total power in Germany.

    In 1936 — as Hitler was violating international treaties with impunity and preparing Germany for war (a threat that many Western powers did not take seriously) — Benjamin, a Marxist and a Jew who was thus obviously opposed to the Nazis, postulated that modern fascists succeed when they are entertainers. Not just any entertainer — a circus clown or a juggler-turned-fascist wouldn’t do. Specifically, modern fascists were entertainers with a distinct aesthetic, one that appeals to mass grievances by encouraging their supporters to feel like they are personally expressing themselves through their demagogue of choice.

    Benjamin’s insight, which appears to have been largely forgotten, is that keeping fascism out of power means recognizing how they use aesthetic entertainment to create their movements. That does require us to admit, cringe-inducing though it may be, that Trump is an artist — albeit a tacky, shallow and transparently self-aggrandizing one. More importantly, his movement, the MAGA crowd, has a distinct aesthetic which he has created and honed for them.

  26. Teve says:

    @Scott: Tufekci is one of those writers that I stop what I’m doing to read.

  27. Kathy says:

    Trump to lose Georgia today for the third time.

    Speaking of perennial losers, just when did Cleveland get a real NFL team?

    Oh, they had one in the 90s, which unfortunately lost the big playoff games, but that one moved to Baltimore and renamed itself the Ravens (I find this fact often overlooked). Cleveland got an expansion team then, which assumed the identity of the Browns (who are now the Ravens).

  28. Teve says:


    Specifically, modern fascists were entertainers with a distinct aesthetic, one that appeals to mass grievances by encouraging their supporters to feel like they are personally expressing themselves through their demagogue of choice.

    “We’re all victims. Everybody here. All these thousands of people here tonight. They’re all victims. Every one of you.”

    —Donald Trump 12/5/20

  29. charon says:


    And Republicans aren’t fighting it.

    Because it is not just Trump. Given the choice between democratic elections and retaining power they choose retaining power as they understand they are a minority declining demographic. Power is more important to them than democracy, making them they sort of people compatible with incipient fascism.

  30. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: It’s not like there’s anything on his calendar at this point in the year/administration that demands attention, is there? (And even if there is, is it the kind of thing that we’d want to have his attention given to?)

    Buh-bye, Bill.

  31. Kathy says:

    From the files of “Kathy, you’re an idiot,” yesterday I went to Office Depot to get some office supplies (imagine that), and took the opportunity to buy a replacement ethernet cable for my desktop PC, and a USB C cable for my phone.

    Well, Looking at prices, I saw one slightly less expensive, about $2 less, and got that one. I didn’t notice it was a regular mini USB rather than USB C….

    It’s not even worth taking it back for a refund, not in a pandemic. What bothers me is I’m still short one USB C cable.

    I’ve also realized my plan to shop for groceries every two weeks has a massive flaw: I don’t know what I’ll cook next week. So the next adjustment is to order groceries online for delivery on Saturday and see what happens. Also, I’m doing a list of what I can cook with stuff that can keep for weeks in the pantry, or that can be frozen.

  32. Sleeping Dog says:


    That’s a reasonable take, but that dog won’t hunt. The former admin officials who joined to be the adults in the room, all feel out of Trumps good graces because they tried building fences around him and that was generally known and reported by the press. Perhaps only one one issue, which I’m blanking on, has Barr been reported to be pushing back on Trump, until the recent ‘no fraud’ announcement. He has otherwise, aided and abetted Trump’s schemes, coming up with ways to further corrupt the DoJ.

    He may try this gambit, but it will fail. As far as Wittes, the Barr, Wittes endorsed had yet to reveal his corruption. Since we have been indulging in LoR discussion this week. View the Barr that Wittes endorsed as Saruman, before he fell under the influence of Sauron. Wittes has walked back that endorsement as you have noted.

  33. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: Only if she agrees to wear that faux leopard cardigan everyday. If the place is going to be a zoo, it should look like one. 🙁

  34. CSK says:

    You can do a lot with canned beans, canned tomatoes, dried pasta, canned beef, chicken, turkey, or vegetable stock, and the requisite herbs, garlic, and salt, and they keep forever. I suppose canned vegetable are an option, but I’ve never cared for them. I agree with Jacques Pepin: frozen vegetable are fine.

  35. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    Oh, quite so. Perhaps a tiger-striped sarong as well.

  36. Michael Cain says:

    @Kathy: From 1987 through 1990, the Browns got to the AFC championship game three times, losing all three to John Elway’s Broncos. Also gave us bits of football history with the Drive and the Fumble.

    I have been struck over the years by the dominance of certain teams and QBs in the AFC. Of 54 Super Bowls, the Patriots, Steelers, or Broncos have appeared in 27. In 18 of 20 Super Bowls starting in 2001, the AFC quarterback has been one of Brady, Roethlisberger, or Manning.

  37. CSK says:

    Sidney Powell’s Kraken lawsuit in Georgia has been dismissed.

  38. Teve says:


    In 1942, by a lake high in the Himalayas, a forest ranger came across hundreds of bones and skulls, some with flesh still on them. Decades later, researchers still aren’t sure who all these people were—or how they died.

    The skeletons at the lake

  39. DrDaveT says:


    Mr. Presti, 34, faces 10 charges, including assault with intent to cause injury to an officer, reckless endangerment, reckless driving and resisting arrest, according to a criminal complaint filed on Sunday. He was released on his own recognizance and has a hearing scheduled for January, court records show.

    From which you don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce that Mr. Presti is not black.

  40. DrDaveT says:

    Historical news story of the day, from the Rushville (Indiana) Republican, 13 November 1900. Buried in a long list of “Local Brevities” on page 3 (of 4) that includes things like “the teachers of Ripley township presented trustee Cyrus B. Cox with a fine rocking chair”, we get this horrifying tidbit:

    Miss Ethel Sears, of Knightstown, has lost the sight of one eye and the other is threatened, as the result of meal and pepper throwing at a political meeting.

  41. Teve says:


    Since June, a line from @DanaGoldstein on @chrislhayes #WITHPod has stuck with me: when you get home after testing positive, nobody is there to help. In other countries, they send you guidence, supplies, check in on you. In ‘the greatest county in the world,’ you’re on your own.

  42. Kathy says:


    I thought canning vegetables was a substitute for funerary rituals.

    Some frozen vegetables are ok for some things. Carrots, in particular, are terrible for eating them raw or for stir fry, but they work ok just thawed, along with frozen peas and corn, and heated, not boiled, in some water and butter. I’ve had success stir frying thawed broccoli florets (the only way to make it edible), but you have to let them air dry beforehand.

    I almost bought salsa, tortilla chips, and extra onions to make chilaquiles next week, but I’d just had them last week, so….

    You know what I miss from pre-pandemic days? It sounds shallow and silly, but going to the store not knowing what I want to cook, and spending an hour or two wondering the aisles getting ideas. You know, looking at produce, packaged goods, the deli area, the frozen foods area, and wondering “what can I make with this?”

    I don’t do that often. And since March this year, I don’t do that at all. I go in, get what’s on my list, and I get out, all as quickly as possible. usually under 20 minutes.

    Maybe I’ll try it virtually at the store’s website.

  43. Sleeping Dog says:

    I’ve placed an order for a case of popcorn and a keg of Throwback.

    What If Trump Is Trying To Break the GOP?
    The future of the Republican party is an endless series of loyalty tests and Trump family vendettas. Good luck.

    This couldn’t happen to a nicer group of people.

  44. Kathy says:


    Don’t you know Patrick Henry said “Give me liberty and give me death!”?

  45. Teve says:

    @Sleeping Dog: here’s hoping!

  46. CSK says:

    Funny, I used to do the exact same thing–wander around the grocery store looking for inspiration. Now, like you, I’m in and out as quickly as possible.

    My mother, after decades of preparing meals, got to the point where she’d enter the supermarket, push the cart about dispiritedly, and then moan, “Oh, God, I wish they’d invent a new food.”

    P.S. I agree that frozen carrots are awful. I always buy them fresh.

  47. Mikey says:


    The incoherence and the incompetence of the attempt do not change its nature, however, nor do those traits allow us to dismiss it or ignore it until it finally fails on account of its incompetence.

    As someone else put it, a coup attempt that steps on a rake and then shits itself is still a coup attempt.

    Or in more practical terms, if you walk into a bank, make your hand into a gun shape inside your jacket pocket, and demand cash, you will still be arrested, jailed, and charged with bank robbery. The fact you couldn’t have actually hurt anyone is irrelevant.

  48. Paine says:

    There’s an interesting take from a reader on the front page of Talking Points Memo arguing that republican voters are checking out of the whole democracy thing and Trump is setting himself up as some sort of presidential “anti-pope.” These people are going to spend the next four years pretending Trump is their president while Trump can enjoy play-acting as prez without the hassle of actually being one.

  49. charon says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    I don’t buy it, the GOP is obviously developing a dolchstoßlegende but there is no constraint limiting the knifers to Republicans (RINO’s). The idea the blame will be concentrated on RINO’s is just wishful thinking, a lot of that at the Bulwark.

  50. Kylopod says:

    @Kathy: I’m reminded of a scene from Blackadder (which I wasn’t able to find on Youtube):

    “Sorry, did I say, ‘Your money or your life’? I meant, ‘Your money AND your life.'” [Shoots the guy dead]

  51. Joe says:

    you will still be arrested, jailed, and charged with bank robbery

    The question here, Mikey, is whether it will be aggravated robbery, i.e. with a weapon.

  52. Sleeping Dog says:


    That’s why the popcorn and beer.

    In reality, this is simply the continuation of a pattern that has followed Rs since Goldwater. The first to be pushed out were what were colloquially referred to as Rockefeller Repubs, basically socially moderate to liberal, but financially conservative. Then they came after those Rs who would work across the aisle, etc. etc. Trump doesn’t care about the party, except as an adulation vehicle and if not his own restoration, the restoration of the house of trump. I can see Stoddard’s point and I understand your skepticism. Frankly, I don’t believe that Trump has an actual plan, only that he is seeing opportunities and grabbing them. Of course that is detrimental to the Rs as a party.

  53. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Joe: The answer is yes.

  54. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Lola the dog reunited with her owners after three years missing

    DuPage county authorities got a call last week from a couple in Glendale Heights who had noticed Lola the past few years going into a forest preserve. They had been leaving food for the dog and earned her trust.

    A microchip revealed Lola’s owners.

    “I still had an ounce of hope, I guess, but the majority of me was thinking she had already crossed the rainbow bridge. I was just completely stunned,” Debra Mejeur said.

    Lola wagged her tail when she smelled her old blanket. Of course, no one knows how the dog survived for three years.

    “If she could talk,” Debra Mejeur said.

  55. charon says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    That’s why the popcorn and beer.

    Cults to tend to fracture sans the cult leader, power struggle over the movement. Trump’s senile dementia will progress which will affect his ability to sustain control. Plus, as noted, he will be busy dealing with his legal issues, while ambitious pols (e.g., 2024 hopefuls) will be seeking to undermine him as best they can.

  56. Jen says:

    Did I miss @Teve’s review of the boeuf bourguignon?

    Frozen carrots are gross, but I’m not above having bags of frozen mixed veggies in the freezer to toss into soups and stews.

  57. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Armed pro-Trump protesters gather outside Michigan elections chief’s home

    Jocelyn Benson

    The individuals gathered outside my home targeted me as Michigan’s Chief Election officer. But their threats were actually aimed at the 5.5million Michigan citizens who voted in this fall’s election, seeking to overturn their will. They will not succeed in doing so. My statement:

  58. Teve says:

    @Jen: no sorry I came down with massive, massive acid reflux outta nowhere and couldn’t even swallow water without several minutes of pain. I just got back from the nearby convenience store where I bought two packs of Tums and I’m finally enjoying a bit of relief.

  59. Teve says:

    @Jen: frozen veggies are perfectly fine for soups.

  60. Mikey says:


    Sidney Powell’s Kraken lawsuit in Georgia has been dismissed.

    Dismissed by the judge from the bench, which apparently is federal-judge-speak for “get this meritless bullshit out of my face.”

  61. Scott says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: In the 60s, we moved to Buenos Aires for a couple of years (4-5th grades for me). We took our two dogs with us. They were part Beagle and continually dug under the fence and ran off. They always came back. One day, one of them didn’t. About a week before we were moving back to the States, the lost dog showed up. He was well taken care of. We figured someone in the neighborhood took the dog, took care of him, and knew who we were, and knew we were moving back and decided to return the dog.

  62. Kathy says:

    I’ll confess to something:

    When I need strawberries, I buy them frozen even if they are in season.

    There’s two reasons for this. One, frozen strawberries are already cored. Two, fresh strawberries as sold in the supermarket tend to look beautiful and juicy, but are rather tasteless 99 times out of 100.

  63. Teve says:


    Fox’s Newt Gingrich: “The objective fact is I believe Trump probably did actually carry Georgia. … Republicans simply have to turn out more votes than Stacey Abrams can steal.”

  64. Kylopod says:


    Fox’s Newt Gingrich: “The objective fact is I believe Trump probably did actually carry Georgia….”

    Yet another example of R confusion over the fact/opinion distinction. It can’t be a belief and an objective fact at the same time.

  65. CSK says:

    Whoever’s erecting (you should pardon the expression) these things has a sense of humor:

    Right outside Grandpa Joe’s Candy Shop.

  66. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: linkee no workee.

  67. Kathy says:

    Stat reports that Pfizer’s and Moderna’s CEOs declined an invitation to appear at Trump’s vaccine publicity stunt.

    So. MUCH.Winning!

    Or, people know a lame duck when they see it.

  68. flat earth luddite says:


    She is an ophthalmologist by trade like Rand Paul and Bashar al-Assad.

    As a long-term cancer survivor, I know I ALWAYS go to an ophthalmologist for ALL medical opinions. Doesn’t everyone?

  69. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Hawley urges Trump to veto Covid bill absent stimulus checks

    “Working families and individuals ought to be first for Covid relief, and then we’ll talk about everything else. I see some of these comments about ‘well, we just don’t have any money left over,’” Hawley said. “We don’t have money left over for people? We can give it to state governments, to businesses, but we don’t have any money for people? I just think that’s crazy.”

    Color me surprised.

  70. Teve says:


    U.S. DEATHS, PEARL HARBOR, 7 DEC 1941: 2,403

    U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 1 DEC 2020: 2,473
    U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 2 DEC 2020: 2,733
    U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 3 DEC 2020: 2,706
    U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 4 DEC 2020: 2,563
    U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 5 DEC 2020: 2,445

  71. Kathy says:

    @Michael Cain:

    I kind of remember the Schottenheimer Browns in the 90s for some reason. I must be getting them mixed up with the Bills, I guess.

    I have been struck over the years by the dominance of certain teams and QBs in the AFC.

    Parity has come and gone in the NFL.

    IMO, what really matters is to have an effective head coach, and a back office that can get them the personnel they need, be they players or coaches. Alas, too many teams pin their hopes in a handful of star players, sometimes only one (a QB, naturally), and expect the Lombardi Trophy to follow.

    An extraordinary QB can carry a team some distance, even into the Super Bowl, see Elway and Marino, given an average defense and a solid but not spectacular receiver corps, but they’re unlikely to win a championship, see Marino and Elway.

  72. CSK says:

    Yeah, I know. Apologies. If there were an edit function, I could fix it.

  73. gVOR08 says:

    @Sleeping Dog: When I, echoing Atrios, said Barr would likely eventually be welcomed back into the legal establishment by our Very Serious People I did not mean to imply that he had done anything whatsoever to merit being allowed in. My comment is directed to the corruption of our establishment, many of whom, after all, are Republicans. Being in the establishment seems to be like being one of the Calvinist Elect. Once you’re in, your in. Nothing you ever do will change that. Hell, Henry Kissinger aided Nixon in committing treason (The Chennault Affair), but he’s still welcome in the club.

    I’ve commented before that I see country club Republicans as very forgiving of being an asshole, even admiring. But calling someone an asshole is unforgivable.

    I went back a week or so ago, when it came up, and read Wittes’ piece in the Atlantic. It wasn’t that Barr was a great guy, but that anyone else Trump might pick would be worse. And I’m not sure he was wrong. Barr pushed HW for the Iran Contra pardons, so he did not have clean hands when so many of our VSPs gave him more generous endorsements than Wittes’.

  74. MarkedMan says:

    So it turns out that Pfizer offered various countries more doses of their vaccine over the summer. Britain snapped it up. The Trump administration turned them down. So now, once we have the 50M doses, we are out of the queue until at least June.

    So much winning….

  75. Kathy says:

    About canned vegetables, the big problem, as far as I’m concerned, is the brine used to preserve them inside the can. This affects some vegetables more than others. I can, and do, use canned sweet corn kernels, as well as chickpeas (beans of all sorts, too, but these are packed in their own juices rather than brine). But I also rinse them in a colander for a bit before I add them to the dish I’m making.

    A smaller problem, which I can see would not be a problem for all, is that the veggies are cooked, not raw. I prefer to cook things to my liking (again, beans are an exception because they take a loooooong time to cook, and so do chickpeas to a lesser extent). This seems fine with corn, but I don’t care for canned peas, bell pepper, poblano rajas, carrots, green beans, etc.

    Now, an alternative to brine is syrup. Too much salt or too much sugar makes a hostile environment for bacteria. But you can’t pack vegetables in syrup. You can pack fruit, though. I sometimes get pineapple rings or bits in syrup, provided they’re the low sugar kind (rare), and only because peeling and slicing a pineapple is a chore. I also rinse them.

    That’s the only canned fruit I ever get. The other common kinds found in Mexico (peach, guava, pears, and mango), either I don’t eat or don’t care for canned. IMO, all canned fruits taste pretty much the same after being submerged in syrup for so long, though they do smell differently and vary in texture.

  76. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Jen: I have bags of frozen corn and peas to throw into soups and stews, but draw the line at the little cubes or crinkle cuts of carrots. Carrots, celery, broccoli, onion, garlic, and green beans have to be fresh (though when I’ve been able to find the really small green beans (about 1/4 to 1/2 the diameter of your little finger), I’ll put them into soup frozen. And no potatoes in soup–I was allergic to them as a child and never developed the habit.

  77. Jen says:

    @Teve: Ugh, bummer. I hope you’re feeling better.

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: I’m with you on all of the fresh vegetables for eating. But I’m fine with having frozen broccoli on hand to make broccoli-cheese soup.

  78. Jen says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Polishing up for his 2024 run for President.

  79. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kathy: California strawberries are not grown to be eaten, they are grown to ship 4,000 miles (6400 km.) without growing the little fur coats that keep them warm in the winter. It’s one of those things where we’re supposed to be amazed that we can have them at all.

    And Florida strawberries are (were? is that even a thing with air freight from Oz anymore?) even worse because it’s farther away than Cali from a lot of the US.

  80. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @flat earth luddite: No, but considering that the ophthalmologist who examined me when I was a child predicted that I’d go blind by the time I was in my 30s, I’m surprised when people go to them even for advice about nearsightedness. I go to one now, but only because Medicare says I have to. If it was just for glasses, the best practitioner in my area is at Walmart.

  81. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Don’t be. It’s the flip side of the fiscal sobriety coin. He’s in favor of this for this period of time. When it comes time to vote for it as part of a GOP Covid-19 relief plan, he’ll realize that there’s no money for people again. He’ll regret that there isn’t, but with the deficit as large as it is because the Democrats thwarted the President’s economic plans…

    IOW, just another faux populist.

  82. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: @Jen:
    I always keep frozen corn and frozen peas on hand. Frozen broccoli is not nearly as good as fresh, but as Jen comments, it’s fine in broccoli-cheese soup.

    Jen, Market Basket sells a good frozen haricot vert under its own label.

  83. Just nutha ignint cracker says:
  84. Teve says:
  85. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    Works for me. Thanks.

  86. Monala says:


    Rebekah Jones
    There will be no update today.

    At 8:30 am this morning, state police came into my house and took all my hardware and tech.

    They were serving a warrant on my computer after DOH filed a complaint.

    They pointed a gun in my face. They pointed guns at my kids..
    1:51 PM · Dec 7, 2020·Twitter for Android

    Rebekah Jones
    Replying to

    They took my phone and the computer I use every day to post the case numbers in Florida, and school cases for the entire country.

    They took evidence of corruption at the state level.

    They claimed it was about a security breach.

    This was DeSantis.

    He sent the gestapo.
    Rebekah Jones
    This is what happens to scientists who do their job honestly.

    This is what happens to people who speak truth to power.

    I tell them my husband and my two children are upstairs… and THEN one of them draws his gun.

    On my children.

    This is Desantis’ Florida.

    Rebekah Jones
    If Desantis thought pointing a gun in my face was a good way to get me to shut up, he’s about to learn just how wrong he was.

    I’ll have a new computer tomorrow.

    And then I’m going to get back to work.

    If you want to help, my website is still at

  87. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Jen: Don’t have the patience to make the cheese soup base, but broccoli cheese soup requires cooked broccoli, so frozen is certainly an option there. It’s probably even preferable as it only has to be heated up rather than cooked from scratch. My biggest objection to frozen is that most of the time I buy Brand X frozen vegetables, so there’s a lot of woody material in a bag. Also, frozen hasn’t been as inexpensive as fresh until recently and fresh doesn’t take any longer to cook, so there’s no point in the sacrifice of flavor.

  88. Kathy says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    California strawberries are not grown to be eaten, they are grown to ship 4,000 miles (6400 km.) without growing the little fur coats that keep them warm in the winter.

    That would explain a lot… 🙂

    The state of Guanajuato is known for shoes (Leon), cajeta (Celaya), and strawberries (Irapuato). Driving through the state, it’s common to see roadside stands offering cajeta and strawberries for sale. One time, years ago, I did get a little basket of strawberries on my way back home. I tried them the next day, and they were really good.

    Why cant they have those at stores?

  89. Michael Cain says:


    I always keep frozen corn and frozen peas on hand.

    In addition to corn and peas, I keep frozen green beans. Outside of local season, at least for those, I’ll take blanched and flash frozen in liquid nitrogen over what might be available as “fresh”.

  90. Kathy says:
  91. CSK says:

    @Michael Cain:
    I’ve been getting frozen haricots verts. If you can find them, try them. You’ll be pleased.

  92. DrDaveT says:


    Two, fresh strawberries as sold in the supermarket tend to look beautiful and juicy, but are rather tasteless 99 times out of 100.

    This is the “red delicious” effect — supermarket produce today has been selectively bred to be attractive and to ship well without obvious bruising/discoloration/etc. As a result, it mostly tastes like styrofoam, and has far lower nutritional content than comparable produce 50+ years ago.

    It is almost impossible for me to find a tomato that tastes like a tomato, even in midsummer. I blame this fact for my curmudgeonly demeanor.

  93. DrDaveT says:


    Right outside Grandpa Joe’s Candy Shop.

    If it had been outside Primanti Brothers, they’d have had to put fries on it.

  94. Teve says:

    @DrDaveT: I grew heirloom maters several years. You can find them, but you’ll have to look on Craigslist etc.

  95. charon says:

    This is unreal. Trump abruptly walked out of Dan Gable’s Medal of Freedom ceremony today, leaving Gable shrugging and at a complete loss about what he was supposed to do.

    Trump defiles Dan Gable’s Medal of Freedom ceremony by walking out, leaving him puzzled & raising his arms saying “He’s gone.” Good call by Gable. He IS gone. That’s what dementia does- the mind shuts down w/ gaps like this.

  96. CSK says:

    Christ, that was bizarre, even for Trump. It could be dementia. Or he’s just demonstrating to the world that he no longer even pretends to give a shit.

  97. Michael Cain says:


    I grew heirloom maters several years. You can find them, but you’ll have to look on Craigslist etc.

    We recently moved. No space for a garden, but the patio looks to get about the right amount of shade and direct sun for tomatoes. My daughter down the road is already deciding which bush heirlooms I’m supposed to grow this year.

  98. Teve says:

    @Michael Cain: i quit two years ago because here in north central Florida it would only be a week or two into the productive period and temperatures would zoom into the 90s and kill all fruiting. So I’d spend three months getting these heirlooms ready, and fertilized, and tied up, and then I get one or two tomatoes on the plant and it was done. But there are maters engineered for this area that produce world class tomatoes. I should give them a shot.

  99. Kathy says:
  100. DrDaveT says:


    I grew heirloom maters several years.

    I live in a high rise. I tried growing them on my (enclosed) balcony, but no pollinators get up this high, and the various recommended techniques for hand-pollination were too much effort for not enough result.

  101. Teve says:

    @DrDaveT: well if you like to cook I hope you at least have an herb garden. 😀

  102. Teve says:

    @Monala: she was on CNN prime time tonight. Fuck DeSantis.

  103. Jax says:

    @DrDaveT: For hand-pollination in a small area, try those little vibrating toothbrushes. Just touch it to the base of the flower and you’ll see the pollen shake out.

    Fun fact…..I used to work at a very large (for our area) greenhouse. 5,000 lbs of vine-ripened tomatoes delivered in a 3 state area every week. My main job 3 times a week was walking around with a large battery in an apron and a vibrating wand that attached to it. There was another girl who did it on my off days.

    We called ourselves FFA, Flower Fuckers Anonymous. 😉

  104. Teve says:


    Trump has now personally called at least three Republican leaders in three different states in an attempt to overturn the election, and he’s effectively been told to blow a goat all three times.

    The Republic stands.

  105. Teve says:

    When people pointed out that Uber’s business model was a scam, they said no no no we will create self driving cars and won’t have to pay for drivers and will make all the money!

    Uber sells self-driving unit

  106. Gustopher says:

    @Teve: So, here’s the question: are they selling off the self-driving cars unit to suckers to unload a white elephant, or are they selling off the self-driving cars to the major owners of Uber, before they then dump the white elephant that is the core business?

    Uber seems like a whole herd of white elephants, so I have no idea.

    They’re business model is to sell investors a dream.

  107. Gustopher says:

    Today was the one year anniversary of adopting my cat, Porkchop. A day that will live in infamy.

    It was also the 19 year anniversary of adopting my late cat Kimchi. That was also a day that would live in infamy. She was 7 and lived to 22.

    Torties are the best/worst cats. There have been other cats, and they are all very nice, but the torties are generally the best (although the one-eyed tuxedo cat was the very best)