Saturday’s Forum

So, shake it out.

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. de stijl says:

    Per Politico, the Tulsa rally date got pushed back to the 20th due to bad optics.

    1
  2. de stijl says:

    @SLT

    On that subhead. So, shake it out.

    Are you a Florence + The Machine fanboi?

    Very cool.

    If you like super dramatic Brit pop check out Bat For Lashes. Laura is a good entry point. Perfect for Pride Month.

  3. de stijl says:

    @de stijl:
    @SLT

    Hold on, hold on, hold on. Last Open Thread was subheaded with “All of the ghouls come out to play”

    I pay attention to details.

    You are such a F + TM fan. So, so busted! Dropping breadcrumbs.

    Coolest thing ever. Beautiful.

    I’m pretty psyched. That made today a better day.

  4. de stijl says:

    If you like Florence + The Machine check out Jonsi, and earlier, Sigur Ros. (Some of the lyrics are Icelandic)

    Check “Go Do” by Jonsi
    Check “Hoppipolla” by Sigur Ros (I like the live from Heima version)

    Both are good entry points.

  5. wr says:

    @de stijl: “If you like super dramatic Brit pop check out Bat For Lashes. Laura is a good entry point.”

    For me, it was the one-two of Laura and Daniel. Saw her at Coachella a couple years back — she was great.

    1
  6. de stijl says:

    @wr:

    Daniel is great.

    It pisses me off that Natasha Khan is not a superstar.

    For a long time I thought that the dancer in the official Laura vid looked so much like Terence Stamp.

    Then it turns out it actually is Terence Stamp and I am an idiot.

    She is beautiful and so elegant.

    1
  7. Teve says:
  8. Moosebreath says:

    @de stijl:

    “the Tulsa rally date got pushed back to the 20th due to bad optics.”

    While it is good that Trump is avoiding having a rally in Tulsa on Juneteenth, one wonders why he is having a rally in Oklahoma at all. His rallies tend to be in swing states, which Oklahoma is not by any sense of the word.

    3
  9. de stijl says:

    @Moosebreath:

    I am unable to grok Trump’s mind.

    I assume it is adoring crowds chanting his name.

    How lame is that?

    3
  10. de stijl says:

    @Moosebreath:

    Oklahoma is ruby red.

    The intended audience is not Oklahoma.

    Oklahoma is OK.

  11. OzarkHillbilly says:

    William D. Adler@williamadler78
    Name this band. Wrong answers only.

    Guns and Poses
    Below Average White Band
    They Might Be Fascists
    Big Brother and the Chokeholding Company
    Sgt. Pepperspray…. & The Empty Hearts Club Band

    many more at the link.

    3
  12. Moosebreath says:

    @de stijl: @de stijl:

    You are missing my point. Trump’s next rallies are scheduled for Arizona and Florida, which are both swing states this year. Oklahoma is not, so there was always another reason for having a rally there.

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  13. de stijl says:

    They Might Be Giants were cool and clever. Perhaps too clever.

    Music is more about the emotions evoked rather than clever brains.

    Talking Heads could have easily gone down the clever path. David Byrne is a really smart fella and they chose well.

  14. Sleeping Dog says:

    @de stijl:

    Insomnia or just getting in from a night of partying.

    @Teve:

    Read through a few of the tweets after Kristol’s and this is my favorite. https://twitter.com/SteveHofstetter/status/1271103965682298880?s=20

    @Moosebreath:

    Tiny needed a state that he could browbeat the governor into allowing shoulder to shoulder, no mask party. Doubt a swing state rethug gov. would have acquiesced to that demand.

  15. Sleeping Dog says:

    Dr. Steve, please release me from moderation.

  16. de stijl says:

    @Moosebreath:

    Be clearer.

    I don’t know what you are arguing for or against.

    I didn’t even know we were arguing.

  17. CSK says:

    @de stijl:
    Trump tweeted that “many of [his] African American friends and supporters reached out to suggest” he change the date.
    Trump also mentioned that over 200,000 people had requested tickets.

    1
  18. Jax says:

    Just because you’ve reserved tickets doesn’t mean you have to go. Be a real shame if all those seats were…..empty. ūüėČ

  19. Stormy Dragon says:

    @de stijl:

    Per Politico, the Tulsa rally date got pushed back to the 20th due to bad optics.

    Best part is that the tweet announcing the rescheduling is very clearly not written by Trump himself, so you wonder if he even knows it’s been rescheduled or if his staff just did that on its own.

    1
  20. Kathy says:

    @de stijl:

    I am unable to grok Trump’s mind.

    Well, let’s address this problem from the top by tackling the fundamental premise first:

    Does Trump even have a mind? You can’t grok what’s not there.

    1
  21. de stijl says:

    @Kathy:

    I do know there is resentment and attack. A strong urge to belittle. Clearly demonstrated throughout his life.

    I am a withdrawer. Cannot understand the opposite.

  22. de stijl says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    You can tell that Trump himself did not write a tweet when there are no randomly capitalized words.

    1
  23. CSK says:

    Rolling Stone suggests canceling Law and Order: SVU. Given the impetus to do away with shows such as Cops (which I never had any desire to watch) and movies about police work, I wonder if publishers will feel some pressure to cancel police procedurals (crime novels with cops as protagonists)? Or do not enough people read in order to make that worthwhile?

    2
  24. Mikey says:

    Fox “News” is openly misleading viewers about what’s going on in Seattle.

    Fox News runs digitally altered images in coverage of Seattle’s protests, Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

    Fox News published digitally altered and misleading photos on stories about Seattle’s Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) in what photojournalism experts called a clear violation of ethical standards for news organizations.

    4
  25. CSK says:

    @Stormy Dragon:
    If Trump didn’t write that tweet–and I agree that it seems quite improbable, given that it’s literate–can we expect a tantrum from him of epic proportions? Or a retraction?

    Remember what happened when he was made to retract the “very fine people” comment? He unretracted it the next day.

    1
  26. de stijl says:

    @CSK:

    They have to address it and not half ass that.

    If they have good writers some shows will survive.

    I watch The Rookie because of Nathan Fillion. That show has the structure to withstand because the premise is a new guy learning the ropes and the culture. Floyd George fallout could easily be accomodated.

    The CBS procedurals will just likely continue as is with a nod. (I do like Vanessa Ferlito. She is intetesting and always has been.)

    The NBC Law and Order set will be interesting. I imagine Ice T will get some juicy scenes this fall.

    Thank Tyr Cops and Live P.D. got cancelled. Good riddance.

  27. de stijl says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    Bit of both.

    I have an unconventional sleep schedule.

    Lucky enough to be able to sleep when I want to or need to.

  28. @de stijl: Flo, indeed (in fact, it has been been this song all week). Today was the last ditch at the most obvious hint before posting the music video and being done with it.

    I will give those suggestions a try.

    2
  29. Stormy Dragon says:

    BTW, as an update on the J. K. Rowling thing from last week, she has since published an essay that underlines the fact she is not, as Dr. Joyner claimed, an ally to trans people:

    J.K. Rowling Writes about Her Reasons for Speaking out on Sex and Gender Issues

    Despite all the talk about whether trans-women represent a threat to the safety of cisgender-women, it turns out the actual issue is that she sees trans-men as gender traitors. Furthermore, she apparently believes she holds some sort of veto authority over them and that, rather then being a matter between the individual and their doctors (or in the case of minors among the individual, their doctors, and their guardians), they need to prove to her that they deserve to be allowed to transition.

    4
  30. CSK says:

    @de stijl:
    I thought I made it clear that I was referring to books. Fiction. Novels about police work. Police procedurals are a very popular sub-genre of mystery/crime fiction.

    Since police procedural fiction generally presents the cops as the heroes, or at least mostly as the good guys, would some publishers want to curtail their publication of such books? Or, as I said, do not enough people read in order to have that matter?

    1
  31. senyordave says:

    @Stormy Dragon: I just read Rowling’s article. My first thought is that it is written in such a way to indicate an extraordinary level of condescension toward anyone not sharing her beliefs.
    I also find it disturbing that she brings up the dreaded bathroom issue. I notice people can’t bring up even anecdotal cases, much less statistical evidence to indicate that this is an issue at all. NFL linebackers aren’t lining up to use women’s bathrooms.
    She sounds sincere enough, but I’m always suspicious of anyone who has said enough that they have to repeatedly tell the world they don’t hate the group they are accused of hating.

    1
  32. de stijl says:

    @CSK:

    Did not mean to aggro you.

    The first sentence was about shows.

    Riffing off that.

    Comments get re-directed.

  33. CSK says:

    @de stijl:
    No aggro here. But…I still would like to know what you think about cancelling books because they portray cops favorably.

  34. de stijl says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    I will pay attention to the subhead now. Did not realize it was a puzzle until today.

    This is so tooting my own horn, but I solved it before I knew it was a thing.

    It was there but I did not see it. Today it was “Hey! I know that song.”

    Florence + The Machine is always a good choice.

    1
  35. de stijl says:

    @CSK:

    Are we talking book series?

    A lot of one-offs are likely getting rewritten now.

    Lee Child is fine. Protagonist dislikes inefficiency. Reacher would like thumper cops getting taken down a peg or two.

    For Sanford who runs two protagonists now, Davenport and Flowers (with Kidd doing cameos) both are not cop cops.

    Davenport has been fired and rehired repeatedly. Works the BCA not Mpls PD. Easy to manage that series post protests. Actually a cool hook: crime happens during protest and is discovered later. Maybe not, Connelly already had a Bosch book with that same plot.

    Davenport is fairly senior and interacts with the fictional governor. There could be story there. Sanford (actually John Camp who was a daily columnist for the Pioneer Press) is likely thinking this through as we speak.

    Bosch will be harder as he is a working cop embedded in the institution. Actually Connelly has almost aged the Bosch character out of active duty.

    Virgil (that effing) Flowers in the Sanford oeuvre is not an institutionally minded cop. Often forgets to bring his pistol. Easy to massage that.

    There are probably modern day Ed McBain type stuff out there I am unaware of.

    Not to be a dick, but the way bigger impact will be on TV shows.

  36. CSK says:

    @de stijl:
    Yes, I was speaking of series books. There have been a huge number of them over the years.

    Oh, of course the far bigger impact will be on television, and, probably, movies. That’s not a dickish observation at all. My orientation is toward writing, and reading, though I do know some people in show biz, so I wondered how those would be affected.

    2
  37. Gustopher says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    Flo, indeed (in fact, it has been been this song all week). Today was the last ditch at the most obvious hint before posting the music video and being done with it.

    I thought today’s was Taylor Swift. And that you were going to do a meta theme of various Taylors.

    1
  38. de stijl says:

    @Gustopher:

    That would have been Shake It Off.

    Swift is actually quite good at her job. Catchy as heck is good for a pop song. She seems to have her head on straight.

    There’s also Shake It Up by The Cars.

    1
  39. CSK says:

    I was wondering how the West Point grads enjoyed their ceremony today–a ceremony that forced them to return to campus to be quarantined for two weeks, a ceremony that their friends and family couldn’t attend, and, worst of all, a ceremony that forced them to listen to Donald Trump read a dull, lifeless monologue about nothing consequential.

    Did they having the option of bailing on this? I wish they all had–at the last minute, so Lardass would have delivered his address to an empty field.

    ETA: I just watched a bit of the speech. (A bit was all I could endure.) He looked as if he had to cling to the podium in order to remain upright. Appalling delivery: a flat drone.

    1
  40. de stijl says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    I read it as more anti MTF.

    Okay, she is richer than Croesus. She can afford to not care.

    Why would she sully her name and the brand by walking into this? Baffling.

    Women who menstruate?

    Hermoine would not approve!

  41. senyordave says:

    Almost lost in the shuffle between protests and the inevitable increasing Covid-19 case numbers is this nugget:
    Treasury chief refusing to disclose recipients of virus aid
    Details from the article: Building ramparts of secrecy around a $600 billion-plus coronavirus aid program for small businesses, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has moved from delay to denial in refusing outright to disclose the recipients of taxpayer-funded loans.
    Mnuchin told Congress at a hearing this week that the names of loan recipients and the amounts are ‚Äúproprietary information.‚ÄĚ While he claimed the information is confidential, ethics advocates and some lawmakers see the move as an attempt to dodge accountability for how the money is spent.
    The Democrats should make a BFD about this during the campaign. I think corruption is something people care about. In the absence of disclosure we should assume corruption if Trump is involved.

    1
  42. Monala says:

    @Stormy Dragon: I mentioned on the Cancel Culture thread that a UK trans advocacy group called Mermaids wrote a very thoughtful (and gracious) open letter, taking down Rowling’s arguments piece by piece.

    1
  43. Monala says:

    @de stijl: an article in Slate says this:

    To say that J. K. Rowling is obsessed with trans men may sound like an overstatement, but consider that she spends more time on fears about women mistakenly transitioning and becoming trans men than any other single topic in her essay.

  44. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Teve: Somehow, seeing an ad featuring Lindsey Graham saying stuff from back in the days when he was running against (and getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild by) Trump doesn’t resonate for me. I already know that he’s a spineless toad.

    1
  45. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mikey: That’s so precious–someone thinks Fox is a news organization and has ethical standards.

    1
  46. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: I read certain sub-genres in crime fiction and my take is that I don’t see the market–as least the segments I read in–as creating that much association to real live/current events that portraying police positively is a negative for sales. People tend to like what they like and if the character is popular enough, the zeitgeist won’t affect the fans of the work.

    For my personal taste, I don’t care for thriller/suspense type books for example, but it’s more that I don’t like the stories and the pacing than it is not liking the content or the characters.

  47. Sleeping Dog says:

    The moment we all knew was coming, another cop (Atlanta) kills another black man under questionable circumstances. https://www.ajc.com/news/crime–law/man-shot-killed-atlanta-police-wendy-drive-thru/rUUFN6yfvgsevgIc2Q7ZkJ/ and the chief of the Atlanta PD quit.

  48. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    Thank you. That’s quite interesting. The audience for a novel is considerably smaller than that for a tv drama or cop movie. Anyway, I posed this question at an Authors Guild forum, so it’ll be interesting to see if anyone answers it.

  49. Jax says:

    @Sleeping Dog: And let’s not forget the young black man found hanging from a tree in California. The cops declared it a suicide before the Medical Examiner even got to look at him.

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-13/robert-fuller-palmdale-black-man-found-hanging-from-tree-family-protests

  50. An Interested Party says:

    Trump and Trumpism have far more in common with communist dictatorships of the past than anyone on the left could ever have…in addition to amply illustrating this fact, this piece also shows what a completely worthless politician Lindsey Graham has become…I wonder what McCain would think of his prot√©g√© now…I also wonder what Barry Goldwater, or even Ronald Reagan, would think of today’s GOP, a morally bankrupt political party that has sold its collective soul to an odious grifter…