Saturday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Saturday, March 6, 2021
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49 comments
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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We’re a ways from this being over.
In Oregon, Scientists Find a Virus Variant With a Worrying Mutation
A while back, I posted a picture of the encounter of the aircraft carrier Independence and the Italian ship Amerigo Vespucci . This morning, looking at the photo again, I thought of this poem by Walt Whitman.
Walt Whitman, Song for All Seas, All Ships.
Since we have gnawed the bone of the filibuster issue here so often, it is interesting that the Senate is now in it’s 20th hour straight of voting on amendments to the Relief Bill. That is a related veto point about the Senate stemming from the completely open debate tradition honored there; unlimited amendments.
The unspeakable in full pursuit of the unconstitutional.
A Kentucky bill would make it a crime to insult a police officer.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kentucky-bill-insult-police-officer-crime/
What’s an insult? Whatever the cop says it is.
As long as we are doing poetry about the sea, here’s my favorite section from “Ulysses” by Tennyson:
My favorite, but every line of that poem sparkles
@CSK:
What are the odds that the sponsor of the bill has, at some point, complained about liberals curtailing Free Speech?
@DrDaveT:
The sponsor of the bill is State Senator Danny Carroll (R), a retired police officer, so he clearly has, or had, some skin in the game.
@CSK: My money says smashing a cop across the head with a Flagpole wasn’t included on the list.
A friend quoted this to me a few years ago and since then I’ve kept it in mind whenever I’m tempted to be surprised by the actions of others.
—–
We’re being shown daily who the Republicans are, yet we’re not believing.
@Jim Brown 32:
Oh, all the violent insurrectionists at the Capitol were Antifa cleverly disguised as Trumpkins. Didn’t you know? 😀
@CSK: We don’t need no stinking 1st Amendment.
Every time a squad car would drive by us when we were in Jr. High School my lowlife friends and I would shout out: “What’s a penny made out of?…Cheap Copper!”
@OzarkHillbilly:
Carroll says he “in no way, shape, or form” intends to limit the First Amendment. Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and say that’s true. How does he account for a cop who’s having a bad day? Or one who is, frankly, a trigger-happy, power-tripping asshole?
Heh:
@Michael Reynolds:
Good Lord, Michael, don’t you get it? NO ONE is allowed to cash in on Trump’s name but Trump.
@CSK:
I suspect it’ll end up being a self-own. If GOPers can’t raise money on Trump, Trump becomes less important to them. OTOH if the GOP sent out two fundraisers, one mentioning Trump, the other not, and discovered that the Trump label was profitable it’d increase his power. Now Trump risks GOP being able to raise money without him, and if it works, he’s done. Big if.
@Michael Reynolds:
Trump has just endorsed Henry McMaster, Mike Crapo, and Tim Griffin, who’s running for AG of Arkansas. If their coffers start overflowing with money, we’ll know what direction things are moving. It’ll be an indicator, anyway.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/04/gop-extremism-473806
@MarkedMan:
Tennyson reflects what ocean voyages in the era of exploration were in the century preceding him, and for even for much of his own century. Maps of the earth then, if honestly drawn, still contained large blank areas marked “unexplored”. Only a handful returned from the voyages into them in the times almost within living memory of Tennyson’s era. Anyone want a horror story? Read about George Anson’s “successful” voyage around the world. On a par with Scott’s expedition to the south pole. The Iliad rang so real in thier ears, I reckon.
@sam: @MarkedMan: @dazedandconfused: From one of my favorite poets:
Winding Up, by Derek Walcott
I live on the water,
alone. Without wife and children,
I have circled every possibility
to come to this:
a low house by grey water,
with windows always open
to the stale sea. We do not choose such things,
but we are what we have made.
We suffer, the years pass,
we shed freight but not our need
for encumbrances. Love is a stone
that settled on the sea-bed
under grey water. Now, I require nothing
from poetry but true feeling,
no pity, no fame, no healing. Silent wife,
we can sit watching grey water,
and in a life awash
with mediocrity and trash
live rock-like.
I shall unlearn feeling,
unlearn my gift. That is greater
and harder than what passes there for life.
“Otherwise,” by Jane Kenyon:
http://www.poets.org/poem/otherwise
It’s great to be on a ship with men, and sail across the sea oh, we don’t know where’ll we’ll land or when, it’s great to be with men,..
@CSK: Oh yeah, that’s a beaut!
QAnon Shaman: ‘I regret entering that building with every fibre of my body’
I think I’m going to puke…
@CSK: I like that. I am often surprised that I like poetry, but then again in our age, unlike Tennyson’s, the greatest poets are not intellectuals. Look at these lyrics from Jidenna:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-greg-abbott-social-media-conservative-bias-censorship-law/
Mimai and @MarkedMan:
For Jane Kenyon, it really did turn out “Otherwise.” She died much too young of leukemia when she was 47. It grieves me–perhaps selfishly–to think of all the great poetry she could have written had she had more decades in which to do so.
I spoke with her husband Donald Hall, another fine poet. He was shattered by Jane’s death.
@Doug Mataconis: Which I am pretty certain actually IS a first amendment violation, unlike all of the conservative bleating about getting banned.
One of the mantras about Joe Manchin is that he’s just trying to survive in WV, which is why he votes the way he does. Maybe it is just a case of Occam’s razor. He voted for an amendment proposed by Tommy Tuberville that was attached to the Covid-19 relief package that that would prohibit educational institutions from receiving funding if they allow “biological males” to compete in women’s athletics.
It is hard to believe that the people of WV would have cared if he had voted against this amendment. IMO he voted for the amendment because he agrees with it. I suspect Joe Manchin would have been voting against civil rights bills in the 60’s. The Democrats have to try to placate him, but nobody should kid themselves about who Manchin is.
BTW, Tuberville seems like he is giving Louis Gohmert some serious competition for dumbest member of congress.
@Jen:
I agree
Good move President Biden
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/05/biden-war-powers-congress-473843
By the way, after the events of 2015 theough 29121 the words “President Busen” are m ut sic to my ears. I don’t want to see his predecessor in predecessor ever again.
Sometime in the last week I read a pretty devastating profile of Manchin and his political “philosophy”. (Apologies, but I can’t find it at the moment) The author appeared to know him pretty well and claimed that Manchin just performed the political calculus on any bill, mentally parsing out the gradients of where particular voters would want him to vote, whether they would possibly vote for him any way, how much he would motivate opposition to work against him, or how much he would motivate allies to work for him. Having performed this intricate calculation, he would then cast his vote for whatever position benefitted him most politically at that precise moment. The author had a couple of cases of Manchin making a big deal of voting one way and then a few years later, voting another. He was willing to screw long time allies, even important businesses in WV if it would net him even a short political gain, confident that he could pick them up again later. The bills he introduced and championed were poorly written and largely symbolic, accomplishing little. He even once introduced a bill in direct opposition to a bill he had earlier championed.
So I don’t think Schumer gives one second of thought to Manchin’s “conservative philosophy.” I’m sure that when the WH and ol’ Chuck are working on him they are singing the song of how a particular vote can help him, and telling a horror story of the unrelenting true believers he will piss off with the wrong vote. If that article is accurate, you no more need to consider the conservative bona fides of a bill than you would with Rand Paul.
This explains why the Biden administration had VP Harris calling directly into West Virginia television interviews to work around him. They realized that whatever offense Manchin took it wouldn’t change his vote one iota, whereas moving the public view on an issue would certainly get his attention
@Doug Mataconis: I agree, the AUMF has been contorted far beyond its original intent. There needs to be a new set of authorities that spell out POTUS’s latitude for the current global stage.
I might add that Congress could have always done this, but doesn’t because its convenient to not take a vote that will come back to haunt them.
I will further add that despite what Congress lays out, Troops in contact always have the right of self defense. And they will defend themselves regardless of what Congress thinks. Our people in Iraq and Syria take fire often and suck it down–doing nothing.
We occasionally send a message to slow down the regularity and intensity of the attacks and Congress Critter shit their pants. Here’s an idea: How about passing a law barring troops from being in the Middle East at all? Congress could absolutely do that.
But that’s bad for international business and trade so it won’t happen. Thee performative legislation and pearl clutching will continue. Something new will replace the AUMF but allows the stabilization/balance of power mission to continue.
@MarkedMan: How much do you attribute this to Manchin himself vs. to the unique(ish) situation he is in as a Senator? Asked differently, do you think [insert random Senator] would have a different calculus if they were in that situation?
They were worried that Trump wouldn’t promote women
Congratulations, General Richardson and General Van Ovost
Thank you for your service and sorry for the delay of your latest promotion.
@Jim Brown 32:
I’m recalling something a successful author, and participant in Vietnam, said to the effect that, If you don’t want 18-year-olds setting foreign policy, don’t give them guns and send them to places where they’re going to be shot at.
I wonder how many of these “foreign entanglements” would occur, or continue, after the powers that be had to put their children in the front of the enlistment line?
A Missouri pastor of the Malden First General Baptist Church, one Stewart-Allen Clark, has taken leave of absence from his ministry and is seeking counseling after advising his women parishioners to lose weight and be more like Melania Trump.
To quote from the Business Insider piece, “Clark also said men need to be accompanied by beautiful women and wives.”
@CSK:
Pastor Clark also called Melania “the epic trophy wife of all time.”
@flat earth luddite:..I wonder how many of these “foreign entanglements” would occur, or continue, after the powers that be had to put their children in the front of the enlistment line?
Fortunate Son
@CSK: that idiot also said that if women tried to look prettier like Melania their men wouldn’t cheat on them, somehow ignoring the obvious fact that Trump cheated on her.
@Teve:
Indeed. The first incident we know of took place while Melania was tending to Barron, who was only a few months old at the time. He strayed with Stormy Daniels, whom he said reminded him of his daughter.
Ummmm, No. He doesn’t deserve the benefit of a doubt here. The basic definition of FoS is telling a cop giving one an undeserved ticket he’s an asshole. Right?
@OzarkHillbilly:
Well, it would be gratifying, certainly.
@Mimai: I think Manchin falls into the category that describes most Republican Congress Critters: if they had integrity they wouldn’t have been elected.
It’s like complaining that Republicans should realize that following Trump will inevitably lead to their downfall and they should go out with integrity rather than debase themselves. We have to accept that all those with even a smidgeon of integrity have already quit or been defeated. The Republican base and the mega-donors simply don’t want their type. By definition any Republican left is a craven. We should accept that as our starting point.
@senyordave:
First, I think you overestimate the tolerance of the people of West Virginia.
Second, it didn’t pass. It was close, but it didn’t.
Manchin’s conservative Democrat credentials are very often exercised on votes where he would not be the deciding vote. I’m not sure he has much of a moral compass, but I’ll give him a pass because of West Virginia when he’s not the deciding vote.
It always comes down to God, Guns and Gays in rural America, except for when it’s race. It’s disappointing, but it’s the world we have to live with.
Spending political capital to virtue signal might not be the right choice. And a vote with no consequences is virtue signaling. And sometimes it’s important, even when there are no immediate consequences. But is this really one of those times?
I don’t know what is in the man’s heart, assuming he is a man, or that he has a heart. He’s threw trans folks under the bus, but under a very light bus.
Also, a lot of middle of the road people have questions about trans folks in sports, without generally being hostile to trans folks. He might be one of them.
Finally, why do amendments not have to follow the Byrd Rule? This had almost nothing to do with budgets, and they should have refused it on those grounds.
@MarkedMan: All of that notwithstanding, it seems to me that the job of a Senator (and Representative) has increasingly become dominated by a single focus – getting re-elected. Integrity is in short supply, as you note. This has me wondering if Manchin is uniquely “craven” in this respect or if many (most?) Senators would behave/vote similarly if they occupied his seat.
@Mister Bluster:
I know several people here who had draft cards at that time. Guys in my neighborhood came back in various degrees of bent. I worked at 7/11 with a guy who was sent home when he volunteered for a third tour in the tunnels. Second scariest dude I’ve ever known.