Tuesday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
·
Tuesday, June 7, 2022
·
99 comments
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
Follow Steven on
Twitter
The guy’s name is “Sinners.” Perfect:
http://www.businessinsider.com/new-email-shows-trump-campaign-fake-elector-scheme-georgia-2022-6
Fake electors were told to sneak into the Georgia state capitol to cast electoral votes for Trump.
The other day, I was thinking that I hadn’t heard much from AOC lately. Well she’s back, hectoring Dems and trying to enforce speech codes.
@Sleeping Dog:
According to the article, 98% of Latino/Latina people don’t use the term “Latinx.”
AOC should pick her battles more wisely.
A mega-tsunami in the Pacific north-west? It could be worse than predicted, study says
As always, an important caveat:
@CSK:
It goes to show how small her bubble is.
If Maslow had a hierarchy of political needs, a pretty basic level of need, for a politician to obtain is, getting elected. If you can’t get elected then all your hopes and dreams for the country are for naught. So for AOC to claim that ‘Latinx’ is something greater than an individual pols getting elected is foolish. And to rub it in, she is offering proof of Michael Reynolds assertion that the progressive left is their own worst enemy.
“Latinx” maybe OK in Brooklyn and the Bronx, but it isn’t in AZ, NM and south TX and many other places.
@Sleeping Dog:
And some colleges. When the term “Latinx” first appeared seven or eight years ago, Hampshire College seized on it and had its entire website edited to conform to the new usage. I don’t think I heard anyone, including the Latinx students, use it themselves.
We live in a new gilded age.
@Sleeping Dog:
AOC says:
Oh the irony.
Because, of course.
@Sleeping Dog:
Sometime in the last couple of years the LA Times ran a poll of their Spanish-speaking readers to see what their preference was. Unsurprisingly, given the long-term demographic history of the area, the overwhelming choice was “Mexican-American”.
AOC has been a disappointment. I thought she might be a rising force in the Democratic Party. I was hoping she’d learn from the overreach of the identity obsessed and bring her considerable intellect and skills to more important issues.
@Sleeping Dog: ” Well she’s back, hectoring Dems and trying to enforce speech codes.”
Did you actually read what you posted? Because she’s not demanding that anyone use this word, she’s reacting to a fellow congressman who has banned it from his communications. (Hmm — is that enforcing a speech code?)
And if you read what she actually wrote, it’s about as far from demanding a speech code as possible — pretty much the opposite.
““Gender is fluid, language is fluid, and I think people right now are using the ‘e’ term as gender-neutral in order to be as inclusive as possible. Don’t have to make drama over it,” the congresswoman said.”
But of course she’s a big ol’ lefty, so the so-called Democrats have to attack her to keep their centrist credentials intact.
@wr: You have a point, but on the other hand she is devoting time and political capital to this issue. And getting into a fight with a fellow dem.
@CSK: The headlines all say “secrecy”, but the real point is they were directed by the Trump campaign. OK, DoJ charged Proud Boy Tario with seditious conspiracy, when do they indict the fake electors and the Trump campaign people?
@wr:
@MarkedMan:
The GOPs are destroying democracy and a lot of people on this site seem more interested in attacking AOC. Democrats are a broad coalition, there are likely to be comrades who don’t entirely suit our tastes. They’re still our comrades. (OK, I have my doubts about Manchin. But he still means Schumer is Majority Leader, not Moloch McConnell.)
That AOC is investing any time on this topic at all is weird. In an election year. When Dems are poised to lose seats. These are the things one fights about when both chambers are solidly in your grasp, the economy is booming, and inflation and gas prices are in check.
Not when there’s real work to be done.
@Jen:
Absolutely. This is really silly. The vast majority of Hispanics seem to think that fretting over the term “Latinx” is stupid/pointless/irrelevant, so why even waste time on it? There are much, much bigger fish to fry.
Missed risk: Long COVID threat extends far beyond pandemic
@gVOR08:
I too would like to know when all those people, particularly Trump himself, are going to be indicted. What more does the DOJ need?
I realize the wheels of justice grind slowly, but in this case, it seems as if they’ve ground to a halt.
@MarkedMan: “You have a point, but on the other hand she is devoting time and political capital to this issue. ”
Is she? She sent a tweet. Some poster here posted it. That makes it look like it’s the major focus of her work. But we’ve got no idea if this was a big deal or some random tweet sent out at the end of an otherwise occupied day…
@Michael Reynolds:
The thing is this: members of the House often don’t/can’t make that big of a splash as a general matter (unless they are chairs of major committees). She is a relatively new back-bencher from a very small wing of the party. As such, her ability to do a lot is limited, just as a matter of fact.
Also, honest question: given your frustration with the progressive wing of the party, why would you have ever hung any hopes on AOC?
@wr: Indeed. While I would agree that there is not a lot of political hay to be made out of the latinx business, the degree to which this represents some major expenditure of political capital is highly questionable.
I would also note that I agree with whomever it was about that said the first level of need for a politician is to be re-elected. I would note, AOC is at no risk of not being re-elected, so her behavior here does not violate that notion.
Now, if we want members of parties to be really concerned about other members of their party in a strategic way, we need to find a way to create more centralized parties.
@wr: From what I can tell, commenters here have spent more time talking about this than she did in her Instagram post.
@Sleeping Dog:
AOC is pretty prolific on social media. Mediaite cherry picks a paragraph from a “mini-rant” and now this gets blown up into AOC the snooty elitist? Way to do the GOP’s work for them.
@wr: But of course she’s a big ol’ lefty, so the so-called Democrats have to attack her to keep their centrist credentials intact.
She is the worst thing possible, a SJW. They are pretty much the worst thing in society, people who actually have convictions and act on them. As fara s reading what she wrote, why bother. Conjecture about her motives – that is the real important thing.
@gVOR08:
I’m not attacking her, on the contrary I think she could have a significant impact. I hope she focuses her efforts on things that have a major impact, such as the GOP actually trying to destroy democracy, rather than letting her frustration over matters such as this distract her.
Of course, her constituents may be more practical and local minded. Most are. So I hope she is also focused on crime, federal highway or other infrastructure funds for her district or if there is anything the federal government can do about the schools in the area. One of the challenges someone like AOC faces is that she is an activist, and highly motivated by a few issues, but she ran to be the Representative of all the people in her district and so is obligated to, well, represent all of them and help them resolve the issues they care about, not just the ones she cares about.
There’s no evidence that any of this hysterical centrism works. The GOP has become the party of Anita Bryant. You can’t beat them at their own game. The truth is that Hispanic voters are flipping to the GOP because being hysterical and overreactive about marginal power is a path to power. The Italian and Irish and white ‘workin’ class became Reagan voters because the GOP let them look down on black welfare moms while the jobs bled out.
@Steven L. Taylor:
This is correct, of course. My issue is with directing her ire at fellow Dems, because if the first level of need of a politician is to be reelected, the second level is that in order to reach (or retain) a majority, other members of your party must also be reelected.
Could she have made her point about using Latinx without naming & shaming a fellow Dem–particularly one whose office directive–the one she is taking issue with–has to do with his need to be reelected?
I’m not really expecting an answer here, I just find it so weird that she’s calling out other Dems (who she MUST know have very different-looking districts, and therefore her standards are not going to match their standards) and I know she must also know the polling on this issue.
So, if she’s not working to shore up her base (because it isn’t necessary) and it has the impact of drawing negative progressive attention to other Democrats…why go there? Even in passing?
@wr:
She responded to a fellow Dem publicly in a way that fight (he had made a general comment and didn’t call her out specifically). It was absolutely inevitable this was going to generate news and controversy. She’s not an idiot so I assume that was her intent. Didn’t someone here say they hadn’t heard from her in a while? If she feels the need to get attention I wish she would generate it by going after, say, the GOP for trying to destroy democracy.
@charon:
To be fair, a number of news outlets jumped on this story yesterday, not just Mediaite.
AOC is a very visible and vocal presence on the political landscape. When she posts something she herself referred to as a “mini-rant,” it’s going to make the news.
@Jen: You beat me to the punch and said it better than I did.
It is not unfair to question the wisdom of in-fighting, although the degree to which any of this will cost Dems votes is dubious.
@Steven L. Taylor: On this we agree. It might even help some Dems to be perceived as being “attacked” by AOC.
When I used to see Republicans do this, it was to raise money. Pick on the moderates, establish your bona fides, and then fundraise off it. This was ages ago, however, and anyone who tried this was at least smart enough to only pick on those in safe districts. If you were going to go against St. Reagan’s adage of “never speak ill of thy fellow Republican,” you’d best make sure that they weren’t at any risk.
@Michael Cain: Is it possible that the preference for “Mexican-American” is because the people polled are LA Times readers and reflects a specific regional make up in a non-monolithic population?
Not surprised that Angelino Hispanics prefer Mexican-American. Wouldn’t be surprised that most of them are probably Mexican heritage, either. (Or was that your point and you elided it?)
@Just nutha ignint cracker: My apologies, Michael Cain. I’m having hardness of reading today. Comprehension is lowering as I get older and with asthma flaring up, less oxygen is getting to the brain. 🙁
I’d say this is unbelievable, but this is America. Today I learned when the police arrest you, there’s no requirement for them to tell you why. That happens at your arraignment. But…what if you’re never arraigned?
And the requirement you be provided an attorney? If you’re never questioned, there isn’t one.
I hope he ends up owning American Airlines, because they really fucked him over.
AZ man spent 17 days in jail for crime he didn’t commit. He blames American Airlines
@gVOR08: @CSK: I may be suffering from oxygen deprivation and hardness of reading still, but it doesn’t strike me a reasonable to wonder when politicians (and yes, all people at the higher levels of government are politicians) are going to indict other politicians. The answer is always “never.” Maybe if Nixon had been thrown under the bus or if Kennedy had been challenged about Judith Exner, but no…
it’s just not gonna happen. And the Dems are never gonna get one back for Bill Clinton, either. Too small a penalty. If you can find a similar chump change penalty for FG, maybe. But I don’t think it’s ever gonna happen.
@Mikey:
That’s a blood-chilling story.
@Steven L. Taylor:
I’d like her to bring her very considerable communications skills to the issue of abortion. She could be out barnstorming the country, appealing to Hispanic voters and young voters, in particular. I follow her Twitter and mostly what she focuses on is pushing progressive candidates in races they are very unlikely to win. IOW, tending to her ideological base while reducing the odds that the Democrats will hold the House.
AOC is a social media Jedi, it’s ridiculous to pretend that she doesn’t know exactly what reaction she’s going to get.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
I can dream, can’t I?
@Mikey:
I caught that one on the aviation blogs yesterday. The piece I read also blamed the prosecutors and judges for issuing and approving the arrest warrants on bad information. I hope this guy takes AA for many, many millions.
BTW, arresting innocent customers has become a feature at Hertz car rentals. Often what happens is a customer returns a car in a different city or location, and the company’s effed up system shows it as not returned. Reports are made to police, and innocent people get arrested.
This happens rather often. So much so, in fact, you’d think on missing a car Hertz would call the last customer and ask them where and then they returned it.
alas, incarceration apparently is a better way to recover a car already in Hertz’s posession. for some reason.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Of course it’s going to happen.
If Benito wins in 2024, he’ll find some rat to serve as AG who will indict, prosecute, and convict Biden or Harris, or anyone else, on made up charges for made up offenses. That’s what successful dictators do.
And guess who’s just announced that it’s not carrying live coverage of the Jan 6th hearings but will only provide end of the day recaps of “important” elements?
@Kathy: FG’s not competent enough to do this. He couldn’t even pull off a tourist event at the Capital. President Cruz or DeSantis on the other hand…
(It’s a good thing that they’re committed to democracy.)
@Kathy: Not better, just easier. You don’t need to leave a voicemail message with the police on a theft complaint. A few minutes total time invested compared to hours potentially.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Uh, let me take a wild guess.
Fox?
@Mikey:
But…. but… Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot says
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Flyin’ Ted and Florida Man probably wouldn’t resort to such measures. they don’t seem the type. For one thing, they like to punch way down. For another, a live non-enemy is more valuable as an outrage generation machine.
Benito, on the other hand, does not feel he’s won if the other guy isn’t humiliated.
@Kathy:
“It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.”
— Gore Vidal
@Michael Reynolds:
I am not questioning her skills or her motivations. I am questioning whether this is a significant expense of political capital and/a significant detriment to her party in some general electoral way.
@Mu Yixiao: Well, shit, why even have trials then?
Unbelievable. Well, not really. Incredible? In the bad sense of incredible, I mean.
@Mikey: In France and Japan once you are charged it is on you to prove your innocence, not for the prosecution to prove your guilt
Speaking of aviation blogs (well, I was), yesterday I saw a brief item saying it can take up to 580 days to get an appointment to obtain a visitor visa to the US in Mexico City. I clicked on the link to the State Department website, and indeed it said there’s a wait of 581 days for a B1/B2 visa (although today it says 577 days).
No clue why this should be the case. It makes me not even want to take an appointment any time soon.
It’s also not clear if this is for a first time visa or for renewals as well. Mine expired in March this year.
@Mikey:
While I am top tier in American Airlines, never forget they are a Texas based company. It resonates throughout their corporate culture.
I hate Texas and the contrived Texan persona with a passion.
Like the saying says: “Texas. It’s a whole ‘nother county”… filled with people that go out of their way to prove that they are assholes.
A day of people complaining about Latinx is probably better than a day of people complaining about gas prices.
One of the things the Trump administration did well was to “flood the zone with shit” so no one had a chance to grab onto something and run with it. It made people tune out to the corruption, cruelty and incompetence.
Early on, the Biden folks were talking about “flooding the zone with good”, but government doesn’t move that fast, and/or they are not good at controlling the narrative.
Ideally, Biden would have signed an executive order chopping away some student loans a while ago, and moved on to a proposal for increasing beds in drug rehab programs (opioids are a still a major problem), and announced that the federal background check for gun purchases will require 4 years of voting records to effectively raise the legal age of gun ownership by fiat (this would be smacked down by the courts, but change the parameters of debate). And directly explain to Rep. Gohmert that, yes, you cannot lie to congress or the FBI.
But, lacking a flurry of activity, a Latinx panic from a backbencher is fine.
@Mister Bluster: Though they don’t do it well, I think that the current “Originalists” are trying to establish that Justice Douglass is wrong precisely because those right of which he is speaking are so old as to have been outdated and superseded by our Constitution. I will also note in passing that the social contracts that modern nations like ours have been formed by only guarantee laws representing the consensus of what those who hold power have agreed to. Not that those laws will be fair, just, or even wise.
@Gustopher:
I’ve come across a couple of comments of Europeans vacationing in america, who find prices to be very high overall, but marvel at how low gas prices remain.
Prices are very relative to what you’re used to.
@Steven L. Taylor: We had more centralized parties. We traded them for more democracy and greater opportunity for those who the centralization omitted from consideration. As to whether we can have more centralized parties without it evolving back into political machine chicanery and latent racism is anyone’s guess.
@Just nutha ignint cracker: ETA: CRT would seem to lean us toward skepticism on how more centralized parties will evolve.
Well, here’s a great quote from someone who’s even stupider than Lauren Boebert. I didn’t think that was possible:
“If you’re a Republican, you can’t even lie to Congress or lie to an FBI agent or they’re coming after you.”
That deathless remark was made by Louie Gohmert.
@CSK: “Dream on/dream on/dream on, dream until your dreams come true.”
I made my comment because there seem to be some here who will be genuinely disillusioned when FG dies an uneventful death (which is to say not as a participant/victim in a prison riot) not ever having been even tried for anything. It’s not my intention to stop people from dreaming about a better world.
Rents are up pretty much everywhere. Why is that not a major issue like gas?
Housing is a much bigger part of most people’s lives than gas, and while homeowners (even partial homeowners with a mortgage) are buffered from the rise, if they ever need a bigger house because they start or expand their family, even they are going to be struggling.
It’s not just the big cities either. Skimming articles on a bunch of small markets, I’m regularly seeing stories of 15-20% year-over-year increases in places like Centralia. Yakima is up 30% since 2019.
My house has more than doubled in value in the past decade, which is insane, but lots of people are moving into Seattle, brought in by the tech companies with massive salaries, and so it’s not surprising. (And my mortgage is way less than rent, and almost paid off…)
But Yakima? And Centralia?
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Oh, I won’t be disillusioned; I’m too old for that. I will be disappointed.
@CSK: I don’t know that Gohmert is dumber than Boebert or Marjory Taylor Greene.
This is why I am careful to refer to him as the Stupidest Man in Congress. It’s just easier than balancing things against Jewish Space Lasers, and whatever Boebert says in a given week.
Did you know Boebert’s husband was convicted for exposing himself to minors?
On Latinx:
This Pew article is a pretty good overview on this subject.
And it’s much more informative than the Mediaite article posted above.
I hope those of you with strong feelings at least skim it.
For one thing, it highlights a Pew poll from Dec. 2019 that showed that 76% of self-ID Hispanics had never even heard the term “Latinx.”
A couple other things:
-During an election, campaigns release internal polls, but they do it selectively and strategically. If they don’t like a poll result, they don’t release it.
In this case, and let me emphasize that I am speculating here, Mediaite identifies that the poll was conducted by a democratic firm. That firm, which can only be identified by clicking the link within the article, is Bendixen & Amandi International.
This is a consultancy firm. But who commissioned the poll? See where I am going with this? Even if they only asked for this data one time, which particular campaign/politician paid the firm to conduct the poll seems like a relevant question given that it was released.
Also, compare the sample sizes, the B&I poll had a whopping 800 respondents. The Pew poll had 3030.
-Polling is tricky for a lot of reasons. But one of the reasons one ought to be very careful about making sweeping statements based on results is particularly relevant to controversial issues. It’s hard to tell whether one answers based on actual belief or other reasons. For example, one may generally think using Latinx is a good idea, but a political albatross or that it’s a minor issue that should take a backseat to more relevant issues. Polling typically doesn’t do a very good job of differentiating between those types of answers.
I do wonder if Latine would poll better, given it’s easier to integrate into everyday language.
@Gustopher:
Well, I agree heartily that it’s a bit of a toss-up, isn’t it, particularly since MTG seems to have fallen for a Twitter parody account written by one “Dr. Lyle T. Lysol.” The surname “Lysol,” would, you would think, tip her off, but no….
Yes, I was aware that the charming Mr. B. had flashed his genitalia to the underaged.
@CSK:
You thought there was no competition on a race to the bottom?
@Kathy:
I never think that.
I find the race to see who can make the most egregiously stupid comment rather engaging.
@Steven L. Taylor:
She knowingly drew focus to something silly at a time when silly isn’t really what we should be going for. Her tweet did nothing to advance a meaningful agenda, but did add to intra-party friction.
@Kurtz:
I think what would poll better is for Hispanic voters in Arizona, and Texas and California and Florida to decide for themselves what they want to be called without ‘help’ from ambitious congresspeople from the Bronx and white progressives from Park Slope and the Upper West Side.
@CSK: I suspected you knew about Boebert being married to a sex offender who preys upon minors, but I also just think it’s important to always mention it at every opportunity.
@Michael Reynolds: Isn’t “Hispanic” a very loaded and problematic term, due to colonialism and differences between the European and Native descended communities?
@Gustopher:
Oh, absolutely. It should be emphasized. Aren’t the Boeberts purported to be a good Christian couple? You know: God ‘n’ guns?
@Michael Reynolds:
This isn’t responsive to my post in the least.
@Kurtz:
Everything comes back around. You gotta admit it’s a little ironic that the language police spent years castigating those who used Latin or Latins adjective for, I don’t know, a person or people who centuries ago had Spanish ancestors?
Brings to mind the whole travesty of “colored people” versus the enlightened “people of color” foofawraw…
I thought the most interesting part of Boebert’s husband exposing himself to minors was that she was among the group of minors he exposed himself to, and she still married his dumb ass. I mean, who marries the guy who flops his weenie out in public?!
@CSK:
I believe the motto is “Jesus Guns Babies”. Or “Babies Jesus Guns”. Something like that. In any order it’s an excellent name for a rock band.
@Jax: He was also arrested her for beating her, when he was 24 and she was 17 and quite possibly already pregnant with their first child.
@Michael Reynolds: “I think what would poll better is for Hispanic voters in Arizona, and Texas and California and Florida to decide for themselves what they want to be called without ‘help’ from ambitious congresspeople from the Bronx and white progressives from Park Slope and the Upper West Side.”
Isn’t AOC a Hispanic voter? Or does she not get to have an opinion because you disapprove of her?
@Kurtz:
The whole thing is a mix of various linguistic irrationalities. From the fact that English doesn’t use gender on nouns, to applying the name of a small region in Italy, Latium, to over half the western hemisphere.
I don’t see how a rational solution works here, past letting language keep on evolving irrationally as it often does.
@MarkedMan:
And she was arrested for mauling him with her nails and trashing his residence. Swell couple. Just the kind of folks I’d invite for drinks and dinner.
Just gotta say, that when it come to speaking to Latinos/Latinas, I think AOC knows a hell of a lot more about how to do it than any of the non “Latinx” people commenting on this here blog. Really guys, we don’t swim in those waters.
@Gustopher:
And referring to them as “Latin” (i.e., of Roman derivation) isn’t? And worse: insisting that their entire language is wrong because it’s gendered?
I see AOC and all those who insist on “La-Tinks” and other bullshit the same way I see the Victorians who insisted on “educating and elevating the noble savages”. She’s pushing a far-left, white notion of “how minorities should be seen” rather than listening to how the actual people actually want to be seen. This is not about cultural identity. It’s entirely about AOC getting attention.
Speaking of AOC…sbe was doing a Q-and-A on Instagram and some schlub asked her for her Onlyfans link. She replied with a link to Democratic fundraising site ActBlue and said “It’s right here, now you have to donate for your corny comment ty.”
Someone then replied “if AOC actually had an Onlyfans she’d get more money from Republicans than Trump does” which is undoubtedly absolutely true.
@Mu Yixiao: “She’s pushing a far-left, white notion of “how minorities should be seen” rather than listening to how the actual people actually want to be seen. ”
Again, she’s not white. Which makes her a hell of a lot more “the actual people” than you are.
Unless you use “the actual people” to mean middle-class, conservative white mid-westerners, which is the standard Republican meaning of the phrase.
Before I go to sleep:
This is what happens when I’ve had a couple glasses of scotch, I’m hungry, and I need to work with what’s in the fridge (because I’ve had a couple classes of scotch and can’t drive).
White rice cooked in the leftover citrus mix from another dish (Minute-Made orange juice, fresh-squeezed lemon, and store-brand lime juice, along with the lemon rinds), and a sprinkle of dried Sichuan chilis; snow peas, red onion, and broccoli stir-fried in olive oil with sesame seeds; thin strips of chicken stir-fried in sweet & sour sauce, honey, and a drizzle of hua jiao oil (Sichuan numbing pepper); served with a side of cold kimchee sprinkled with sesame seeds.
This, my friends, is what leftovers look like “zai Mu jia” (at the house of Mu).
😀
@Just nutha ignint cracker: There is a much longer answer than this: but since pretty much every country in the world has more centralized parties than we do, I am confident that it is a doable proposition.
More in the future to come on this, no doubt.
@Michael Reynolds: Clearly, she doesn’t think it is silly. You think differently. I am a bit meh about the whole thing.
But the odds that this has any significant electoral consequences seems quite low.
@wr:
Her race and mine are utterly irrelevant.
She is insisting on labeling a group with a label that they not only don’t use, but have mostly never heard of.
Every survey/poll I’ve seen says that 70%+ of Hispanics have never even heard of the term “Latinx”, and the vast majority (like… 90%+) don’t use it, like it, or agree with it.
AOC doesn’t get to decide what all Hispanics/Latinos/Latinas think or how they should be addressed.
Hell… almost a third of Hispanics in the US identify as conservative (29% voted for Trump) and only 48% identified as Democrats. 32% identified as independent. (numbers from various sources, so they aren’t going to add up)
Given those percentages, the number of Hispanics who think that the use of “Latinx” is an important issue is… tiny. Pushing it as an issue to fight about, rather than saying “I think we should let people decide how they would like to label themselves” is just stupid. It’s picking a fight where there’s no reason to fight. Worse, it’s picking a fight with her allies–for zero gain in political capital–and sabotaging her ability to be a bigger player.
She’s playing to 0.1% of the electorate and alienating powerful allies in Congress. She might get reelected, but she’ll find herself on the sidelines.
@Mu Yixiao:
Did you just accuse a prominent person who can trace her ancestry to slaves and indigenous peoples, slave owners and colonizers, of pushing a white viewpoint and it being Far-Left?
It’s one thing to get caught in the trap of confirmation bias; it’s quite another to ignore documented fact and, oh, I dunno, what is directly in front of your eyes.
Further, this “entire language is wrong” idea reveals that you don’t understand the expressed view on the nature of language nor the arguments being made based on it.
The thing is, there is plenty of ground at both those levels to form a coherent, germane argument against latinx or latinoa or latine. But you are not even trying to do it. Shit, just pick any of McWhorter’s arguments and you would be fine. Instead, you’re taking the Lindsay/Rufo route…or more to the point someone who swallowed their distortions whole.
@Mu Yixiao: She’s pushing a far-left, white notion of “how minorities should be seen” rather than listening to how the actual people actually want to be seen.
One of the truly stupid remarks I’ve seen on OTB. As if OC is some caricature of a self-entitled San Francisco liberal who just pretends to imagine how an actual POC thinks.
@wr: @Kurtz: @senyordave:
Black people do it all the time for both Far Left and Far Right. Gotta keep the ratings/attention/donations up ya know.
Being a “POC” doesn’t confer some special credibility when speaking of broad racial topics. Now personal experiences? Ok different kettle of fish.
@Mu Yixiao:
I was trolling for Michael Reynolds, but I guess you’ll do…
Seriously, though, there’s all sorts of distinctions, and Hispanic seems to have fallen out of favor because it excludes Brazilians and native ancestry. Why is Latin America called Latin America is a whole different mess, but it’s more accepted.
And Latinx was originally used by the Latino LGBT+ community (which should be El GBT+, accepting that gay can mean both men and women), and still remains popular there. Not really sure we should be attempting to put the language of the gender explorers on everyone else and just let it evolve naturally. Seems a bit like using they/them for everyone, regardless of their preference.
@Kathy:
This is a common misconception. Because nearly every noun is male, and the rules for knowing when to prepend wo- (like woman) or fe- (like female) are so complicated, people just gave up, and most of the other forms are archaic.
Technically, a man’s hat is a dora and woman’s is a fedora. Likewise, when a man has had enough to eat he is full, but when a woman is in the same state she is wofull (commonly spelled woeful)
@Steven L. Taylor: I certainly believe that it’s possible. And some time in the future some group of Americans will believe that it’s important enough to make the attempt. My generation squandered its chance to make the world better though, so as long as we hold the reins, things will stay fucked up.
If you all were smart, you’d vote us all out first chance you got. Every damn one of us–regardless of party. There would be a gap in leadership, but it’s coming anyway.
@Gustopher: Centralia is part of Pugetropolis. I worked with people who commuted from near Centralia 4o years ago.
@Gustopher: True. But we have to have a single name for all of them. They won’t be monolithic like we need them to be otherwise.
@wr: You’re asking the guy who thinks he knows what Hispanic voters need? REALLY?
But winding up the day on a different note, on this day in 1985, SWMBO told Rev Granata, “aw, sure, I can fix him.” And 37 years later, she still hasn’t smothered me in my sleep. The woman may not be perfect, but many would argue that alone qualifies her for sainthood.