Tuesday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm veteran. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.

Comments

  1. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Dark messengers of satanism could soon be walking the hallways of Florida’s public schools, and it’s a consequence of hard-right governor Ron DeSantis’s push for more religion in education. Members of the Satanic Temple say they are poised to act as volunteer chaplains under a state law that took effect this week opening campuses to “additional counseling and support to students” from outside organizations.

    Although HB 931 leaves the implementation of chaplain programs to individual school districts, and only requires schools to list a volunteer’s religion “if any”, DeSantis has made clear its intent is to restore the tenets of Christianity to public education. Without the bill, DeSantis said at its signing in April: “You’re basically saying that God has no place [on campus]. That’s wrong.”

    The satanists see the law, which comes amid a vigorous theocratic drive into education by the religious right nationally, as an equal opportunity: if Christian chaplains are permitted access to students, often at the most vulnerable and impressionable stages of their lives, then so are they.

    There are, however, no plans to introduce studies of the dark arts or satanic rituals to any classroom. The Satanic Temple champions Satan not as a literal, omnipresent demon, but as a symbol of rebellion and resistance to authoritarianism. It says its strategy here is to highlight flagrant violations of the constitutionally protected separation of church and state.

    The law of unintended consequences raises it’s ugly head once again.

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  2. Kingdaddy says:

    “While Democrats agonize over Biden’s debate performance—and many call for him to step down as their presumptive nominee—Republicans shrug off Trump’s felonies. But the rot in the GOP goes even deeper. Surveys taken since Trump’s conviction show that to excuse him, many Republicans have adjusted their morals. They’ve decided that when Trump does something bad or criminal, it’s no longer bad or criminal.”

    https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-supporters-poll-shot-fifth-avenue

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  3. Mikey says:

    @Kingdaddy: This was obvious the day the Access Hollywood tape came out. Bragging about sexual assault was reduced to mere “locker room talk.”

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  4. Kingdaddy says:

    @Mikey: Still, it’s good to see the data. And there are other insights from this research. For example:

    One more notable finding in these polls: Self-identified evangelical Christians—people who purport to serve a deity higher than Trump—nevertheless reversed some of their stated moral positions after his conviction. In the April Yahoo/YouGov survey, taken just before Trump’s trial began, evangelicals agreed by a margin of nearly 20 points—53 percent to 34 percent—that falsifying business records to conceal hush money payments to a porn star was a serious crime.

    A month later, well into the trial, that margin had collapsed: 42 percent said it was a serious crime, but 39 percent said it wasn’t. And by June, after the verdict, the balance was reversed: 46 percent of evangelicals said it wasn’t a serious crime; only 36 percent said it was.

    As one of the other writers on The Bulwark said, when you look at the phrase Christian Nationalism, “Christian” is clearly just a modifier.

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  5. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kingdaddy: @Mikey: Today’s GOP is nothing more than an Ongoing Criminal Enterprise.

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  6. mattbernius says:

    @Kingdaddy:

    As one of the other writers on The Bulwark said, when you look at the phrase Christian Nationalism, “Christian” is clearly just a modifier.

    I am not sure it’s “just” a modifier, but it’s definitely something different than many forms of the religion.

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  7. CSK says:

    I had another OTB dream last night. Michael Reynolds was my sister’s housekeeper. You wield a mean vacuum, Michael.

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  8. Kingdaddy says:

    @mattbernius: Fair.

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  9. mattbernius says:

    @CSK:
    I want that as a sitcom now!

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  10. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Sarah Clarke KC for Devon and Cornwall police said: “Andrew Tate and Tristan Tate are serial tax and VAT evaders. They, in particular Andrew Tate, are brazen about it.”

    It is claimed that they paid no tax in any country on £21m revenue from businesses online earned between 2014 and 2022. Clarke quoted from a video posted online by Andrew Tate, in which the self-proclaimed misogynistic social media influencer said: “When I lived in England I refused to pay tax.”

    The court heard he said his approach was “ignore, ignore, ignore because in the end they go away”. The court also heard that the brothers had a “huge number of bank accounts” in the UK, seven of which have been frozen.

    Clarke said that money “washed around UK bank accounts”, that were used as a “mechanism for moving revenues from their business activities through a wide number of accounts”.

    “That’s what tax evasion looks like, that’s what money laundering looks like,” she told the court.

    I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

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  11. Kathy says:

    Another United missing wheel mishap.

    I wonder why they kept going to their destination, rather than return to the takeoff airport or divert elsewhere.

    Granted a missing wheel doesn’t affect flight, and landing with a missing wheel si the same at any airport. But given one major problem, you at least wonder if there’ll be any others.

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  12. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: That is not a dream, that’s a nightmare. You need help. Now.

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  13. Stormy Dragon says:

    @CSK:

    [Insert Animorphs cover collage of MR warping into a French maid…]

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  14. JKB says:

    How Trump grabbed the media by the …. in 2016, how they let him and it changed them forever by Matt Taibbi

    Taibbi reminds of when CNN showed an empty lectern awaiting Donald Trump rather than switch to some other candidate or something else.

    I wonder how the media are fairing with the “Get Biden” coverage as Trump is staying below the news horizon.

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  15. Michael Reynolds says:

    @CSK:

    I had another OTB dream last night. Michael Reynolds was my sister’s housekeeper. You wield a mean vacuum, Michael.

    Damn right, I do. I spent two years cleaning homes and offices on Cape Cod. An experience that finally caused Katherine and me, in our early thirties, to think, “Hmm, maybe we should try something else.”

    Wrote a Harlequin, sold it. A year later I was the feared (and beloved) restaurant reviewer for the Maine Sunday Telegram, we were cranking out Sweet Valleys, and Disney spin-offs and some of the first YA. Seven years later we were opening mail to find million dollar checks.

    And the moral of the story is? Ummm. Well, it’s uh. . . Let’s see now, I’m sure there’s some kind of logical thru-line. Just give me a minute.

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  16. Michael Reynolds says:

    @JKB:
    Don’t blame the media for your craven submission to your cult leader. It’s not the fault of the media that you’re a depraved, immoral creep who’d applaud as Trump raped your wife.

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  17. Kathy says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Perhaps the consequences are unintended, but from past episodes, they were easily foreseeable.

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  18. ptfe says:

    @JKB: I mean, the obvious postmortem says that media let Trump play them like a fiddle because he presented something unique that they couldn’t neatly tuck into the existing political sphere. That uniqueness was being bombastic and offensive, and brazenly lying, the way you create Reality TV but not TV about reality, and…yeah, they ate it up.

    Journalists will always be prone to this sort of thing though. It’s not magic, it’s not “lightning in a bottle” – they’ll trip over themselves to get eyeballs, but they’ll also lie to themselves that they’re only pursuing The Truth. That means being first even if you’re wrong, it means laughing at all the stupidity coming out of a fascist’s face without recognizing that it’s free advertising for a conman, and it means covering that conman’s antics as though he’ll “fall in line” with expectations eventually.

    If 2016 Trump was a filmed episode of How I Met Your Mother, CNN pored over every scene and breathlessly reported on the implications of NPH’s womanizing. Fox recognized its entertainment potential and just added a laugh track.

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  19. TheRyGuy says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Guy who swallowed the insane Russian Collusion conspiracy theory hook, line, and sinker and will end up in November voting to murder a feeble old man (because that’s what re-electing Biden will do) has no business criticizing the morality or gullibility of anyone else.

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  20. Michael Reynolds says:

    @TheRyGuy:
    Putin makes no bones about the fact that he is waiting, hoping, for Trump. Russian commentators openly refer to Trump as, ‘their guy.’ Ukrainian children in hospitals die in large degree because Putin knows Trump will rescue him and betray our allies.

    So, sorry, but Trump is clearly, unmistakably, Russia’s bitch. And you not only know that to be true, you’re happy about Trump’s treason.

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  21. Rick DeMent says:

    @TheRyGuy:

    … swallowed the insane Russian Collusion conspiracy theory hook, line, and sinker …

    You mean like all the Senate Republicans that signed on to this? https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-election-security-findings-first-volume-bipartisan-russia-report

    You should read it if you know how, it’s a grabber.

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  22. DK says:

    @TheRyGuy:

    Guy who swallowed the insane Russian Collusion conspiracy theory

    Liar. Convicted Felon Trump colluded with Russia and is still colluding.

    In 2016, Dementia Donald publicly asked Putin to steal Hillary’s emails. The DNC was then hacked by the Russians later that day. Trump’s scampaign met with Russian operatives in Trump Tower to discuss election meddling and sanctions; afterwards, the Republican platform softened Russian sanctions language at Trump’s behest.

    Steve Bannon and Trump’s Russian asset campaign manager Paul Manafort — who had previously helped Putin rig elections in Ukraine — then used stolen DNC data to help the Kremlin coordinate its anti-Hillary social media propaganda.

    Treason Trump was impeached for his criminal attempt to withhold weapons from Ukraine; now Trump says he wouldn’t care if Russia attacks Europe.

    You will vote for a senile old pathological liar who was found liable for rape, publicly sexualized his daughter, bragged of grabbing the crotches of other men’s wives, mocked a disabled reporter, incited a terror attack on Congress, trashed fallen soldiers, and hung out with Jeff Epstein for nearly twenty years while praising Epstein’s affinity for women “on the younger side.”

    Reynolds has his flaws as we all do. But that he supports Biden over rapist thug Trump — a pedo and failure who caused mass death, record job loss, extremist abortion bans, chaos, and riots — shows Reynolds has more morals than all you lying Trump trash traitors combined.

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  23. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Trump has said that he’d settle the Ukraine-Russia war in 24 hours–by giving Russia what it wants.

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  24. Michael Reynolds says:

    @TheRyGuy: @JKB:

    Here’s a little test for our resident culties. Name all the foreign leaders who support Trump.

    Here, I’ll do it for you:
    Kim Jong Un, dictator.
    Vladimir Putin, dictator.
    Aleksandr Lukashenko, dictator.
    Viktor Orban, wannabe dictator.

    Now, explain why the only foreign leaders who want to see Trump return, are also the people who want the United States weakened. Go ahead. We’ll wait.

    ETA: Sorry, I forgot criminal-desperately-holding-onto-power, Bibi Netanyahu.

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  25. Jay L Gischer says:

    As good as other people’s lists of issues they have with what Trump has actually done, they aren’t the same as my list:

    * He actively worked to overturn the results of a legally conducted election. I’m not talking about his court cases, which went nowhere.
    * He continues to refuse to accept the outcome of future elections.
    * He stole highly sensitive government documents.
    * He showed those documents to other people
    * He stored them in some very, very insecure places.
    * He lied about having them to people trying to recover them.
    * He hid them from people trying to recover them.

    We can have different opinions about support for Ukraine and still all be loyal Americans. There is nothing about the above behavior that can be described as “loyal American”. Yeah, he made a big show about hugging the flag. If you suuport the above, I reckon *you* as a traitor to America, who at best, doesn’t understand the Constitution, and at worst, would rather tear the whole thing up because it’s inconvenient to your agenda.

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  26. Kathy says:

    What’s going to kill Biden in November is not so much his shortcomings, but the endless, relentless drive to get him to drop out. This will very likely go on past the Democratic convention, which is still over a month away.

    The logical inference is the discussion will end if Biden drops out. It won’t. Especially when the dime drops and everyone realizes all the organization and money can’t simply be transferred to Perfect Democrat 1.0 Assuming Harris takes over, and can inherit the org and dough, the fight will be over her electability, fitness for the job, charisma or lack thereof, etc. It will be Hillary 2.0, and that’s before the GQP gets into the act. And endless editorials and interviews on why Whitmer, Newsom, Shapiro, or simply anyone else but the actual candidate would be a trillion times better.

    So, we’re screwed.

    Biden should bring up the legal and financial matters in all interviews, for one thing. He maybe should take a full cognitive test administered by a neurologist, and make the results public. This is not as straightforward as it seems, as there will be some cognitive issues (at that age, there have to be)

    We’re screwed. The only hope is that the American voters do as the British and French voters did, and go for the alternative that is not the rabid fascist intent on destroying civil liberties.

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  27. Michael Cain says:

    @Kathy:

    I wonder why they kept going to their destination, rather than return to the takeoff airport or divert elsewhere…. Granted a missing wheel doesn’t affect flight, and landing with a missing wheel si the same at any airport. But given one major problem, you at least wonder if there’ll be any others.

    Idle speculation on my part… Denver has a very long runway (16,000 ft) that would allow the plane to coast to a stop with minimal use of wheel brakes. Burning off fuel lightens the landing weight.

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  28. Kathy says:

    @Michael Cain:

    I thought about burning off fuel. This is usually accomplished in a boring holding pattern close to the airport. So, sure, you may as well burn it off by going elsewhere, so at least the fuel isn’t wasted.

    But I’m hung up on what else might be wrong or go wrong. There are a number of airports suitable for diversion between LA and Denver, but also a lot of mountainous terrain. I’d rather be close to an airport.

    Ok. Nothing else went wrong. That’s the expected outcome, and even the way to bet. But it’s the classic “nothing else ever goes wrong, until something does.”

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  29. Franklin says:

    @mattbernius: This is one good reason I come to OTB, for the uncontrollable snorts

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  30. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Seems to me this RyGuy has about 2 pounds of bologna between the slices, topped with store brand Russian salad dressing and American “cheese.”

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  31. Bill Jempty says:

    I don’t think we’re there now but could the United States be experiencing this in not too long? Don’t tell me its not impossible. This country has on three occasions had incapacitated seriously ailing or a President where invoking the 25th amendment was being discussed and on all three occasions, the public knew nothing.

    Don’t say there can’t be a chapter four? Is Jill Biden qualified to decide if we should go to war if China ever decided to blockade Taiwan. A real possibility and a weak/mentally debilitated/incapacitated President only increases the risk of China taking action.

    Are those sticking by Biden considering any of the paragraph above? They should be.

    I’m reminded of a line from this bad movie. A huge asteroid is hurtling towards earth but Soviet officials/bureaucrats aren’t sure they want to discuss it with the Americans.

    Brian Keith’s character says- “The Volga is about to overflow and we’re discussing swimming lessons.”

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  32. Gustopher says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    Is Jill Biden qualified to decide if we should go to war if China ever decided to blockade Taiwan.

    I know that Jill Biden is apparently a shrew, but does anyone think that Harris wouldn’t knife her in the back or something to take over Joe’s puppet strings?

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  33. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @TheRyGuy: Electing Biden will result in the murder of a feeble old man? WA!! That’s clickbait and a half. You wouldn’t happen to have a link for that story would you? I’d really be interested–even if it was from the Weekly World News or National Enquirer.

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  34. Kathy says:

    The weather hasn’t remained good (ie little to no rain) this week, though ti remains more cloudy and less warm. Rains should resume this week and next. But just in case, I think I should make ce cream (especially with the AC situation at the office).

    So I’ll go with cherry, as cherries are available now. I wanted to try banana, but bananas are in stores year round.

    For now, the basic idea is to remove the stem and pit, chop them, and cook them to 1) soften them and 2) get some juices out. then puree in the blender with a cream and milk mixture. Add sweetener and vanilla, whisk, chill, and pray to the ice cream gods (there aren’t any, only because the ancients didn’t have ice cream). I may add a tbsp. or two of some liquor.

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  35. Jay L Gischer says:

    “Is Jill Biden qualified to decide if we should go to war over a China blockade?”

    This is not the kind of question that comes at you by surprise. Look, we’re asking it right now, which means we could think about it right now, and decide it right now. We don’t have to tell anyone what that decision is, after all. Biden is not in a coma. He has bad moments. But very little about the modern presidency is momentary.

    And by the way, I’m pretty sure the answer is “yes”. All the chip foundries are in Taiwan. It is of immense strategic importantce to the US. All of this is known and has been discussed among the Chiefs of Staff, and the National Security Council. They know what their answer is. They work very hard to not have to play it by ear and improvise, but to go over lots of contingencies ahead of time.

    This is where good/bad judgement comes into play, rather than “quick on one’s feet”. And Biden still has really great judgement.

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  36. Jen says:

    @Bill Jempty: We spent four years living in the set of Idiocracy*, and will again if Democrats don’t understand quickly that a) their options are Biden or Harris and get with the program; and b) that moving on from the debate is essential instead of this endless, insistent, self-flagellation which isn’t just pointless, it’s extremely damaging.

    What will it take for Democrats to behave like Republicans, or, say, take the advice of any decent crisis communications expert: DO NOT ALLOW THE CRISIS TO LEACH INTO ANOTHER DAY.

    *Actually, like most sequels, this will be worse…it will be Idiogeronkakistocracy.

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  37. Jen says:

    @Kathy: Both liquor and an invert sugar (glucose, honey, or corn syrup) can inhibit the crystallization that sometimes occurs in fruit-based ice creams that can make them a bit grainy in texture (it’s the water in fruit that does this, so good idea to cook slightly too). Good luck!

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  38. Slugger says:

    Wouldn’t it be hilarious; I know it’s impossible, but wouldn’t it be hilarious if Trump won the popular vote, butBiden got the electoral college?

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  39. Bill Jempty says:

    @Jen:

    Actually, like most sequels, this will be worse…it will be Idiogeronkakistocracy.

    Sequels as good or better than the original. The Godfather Part Two, Aliens,……………….

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  40. Bill Jempty says:

    @Kathy:

    Another United missing wheel mishap.

    Kathy,

    What do you expect from an airline nicknamed Untied?

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  41. Bobert says:

    @Bill Jempty:

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  42. gVOR10 says:

    James (Snowball) Inhofe has passed away. In deference to the landlord’s feelings about speaking ill of the dead, I will content myself with a simple goodbye. James Inhofe is dead. Good. Bye.

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  43. DK says:

    @Bill Jempty: The idea that Jill Biden could “hide” an incapacitated Joe Biden is MAGA-level nonsense.

    Biden is not stepping down, mainstream media fever dreams and magical thinking notwithstanding. So. If Republicans can rally around their incompetent rapist thug candidate, Democrats can certainly rally round Joe Biden’s successful presidency.

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  44. Neil Hudelson says:

    @Kathy:

    This summer I made some batches of strawberry and blueberry ice cream when those were in season, and a couple of batches of sorbet. I really enjoyed the sorbet a bit more–stronger fruit flavor, way less work. Might work well for cherries too.

    If you are interested, for sorbet I used this standard recipe, but the citrus may not work with cherries.

    Two pounds fruit.
    Two cups sugar
    One lemon, cut off the end nubs and take out any seeds, but you use the rest of the lemon, pith and all.
    Couple pinches of salt.

    Put everything into a blender, puree. Strain through fine mesh strainer. Put into ice cream churn.

    The strawberry turned out perfectly, no changes. The blueberry sorbet was very decent but needed a bit of something, maybe ginger.

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  45. Bobert says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    Is Jill Biden qualified to decide if we should go to war if China ever decided to blockade Taiwan.

    Are you suggesting that Jill Biden is the new Nancy Reagan?

    Anyway, It have you considered that the US government and the military is operated by more than one gentleman? Do you think that the Pentagon has failed to consider the scenario that you describe? Do you honestly believe that the President operates in a vacuum, with no other advisors beside Jill?
    Your advocacy for a replacement is an advocacy to elect DJT. Jettisoning Biden now is ensuring
    MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).

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  46. Kathy says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    It’s a lot worse than that. United started out as part of the United Aircraft and transport Corporation, owned by one William Edward Boeing.

    That Boeing.

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  47. gVOR10 says:

    @Kathy:

    I thought about burning off fuel. This is usually accomplished in a boring holding pattern close to the airport.

    The only time I’ve experienced an in-flight emergency was on a flight out of Dayton, OH many years ago. Lost a hydraulic pump while climbing out. Spent about an hour flying low and slow up and down the OH/IN border with flaps out and gear down before landing back in Dayton with fire trucks lining the runway. I assumed this was because a) we were probably headed to Chicago or Detroit which are much busier airports, b) we could burn fuel faster low, slow, and dirty, and possibly c) the crew wanted to get the hydraulically operated flaps and gear down early as we might have been leaking fluid. I forget if the pilot said anything about hydraulics, but this was a 727 with rear engines and Dayton is home to Wright Patt AFB, a transit point for many pilots and supplier company personnel. The sudden high squeal in the back was greeted by about six passengers saying simultaneously, “pump cavitated”.

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  48. Bill Jempty says:

    @DK:

    The idea that Jill Biden could “hide” an incapacitated Joe Biden is MAGA-level nonsense.

    Did you bother to read my post? Apparently not. Hiding a incapacitated or seriously ill President has been done before. Three times.

    So. If Republicans can rally around their incompetent rapist thug candidate, Democrats can certainly rally round Joe Biden’s successful presidency.

    And its a guaranteed way to lose in November. Biden isn’t going to get better and the American voters don’t think he is fit to serve another term.

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  49. gVOR10 says:

    @Bill Jempty: American Pragmatism is usually cited in support of being precise about the meaning of terms. A recent example is “Democrats”. One should state whether one means D voters, the DNC, D pols and pros, D donors, or the imaginary D Council of Elrond that can decide who carries the Ring into November. It also means we should be very careful about what question we’re discussing.

    You seem to be discussing whether Biden staying in is a bad thing. That question is only relevant if we have discussed what the alternatives are and whether those alternatives are feasible. I only see two realistic, non-catastrophic scenarios, A) Biden stays in, or B) Biden steps aside, endorses Harris, hands Harris the keys to the campaign, and wholeheartedly campaigns for Harris. If one favors Biden stepping aside, then one must address whether Harris has a better shot against Trump. Because discussing a Jill Biden led (actually Harris, Biden and Harris’ Chiefs of Staff, the Def Sec and the Joint Chiefs) extreme hypothetical possible war with China only makes sense if we talk about the alternative, a Trump, or Trump clown staff, led possible war with China. Or are you assuming Trump would just let Xi have whatever?

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  50. Franklin says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Sounds like a BS sandwich to me

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  51. Bill Jempty says:

    @gVOR10:

    You seem to be discussing whether Biden staying in is a bad thing.

    I have been saying for 6 months or more that if Biden runs this November, he loses.

    His staying is a bad thing. A wannabe dictator gets the oval office next January.

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  52. Bill Jempty says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Russian salad dressing

    I like Russian Salad Dressing!

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  53. dazedandconfused says:

    @Kathy:

    “You picked the wrong time to leave me Loosewheel….”

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  54. Chip Daniels says:

    The intern in the basement of the White House running out to fetch coffee is better prepared for the 3AM phone call than anyone on the Trump team.

    And I believe that most persuadable voters know it.

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  55. DK says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    Hiding a incapacitated or seriously ill President has been done before.

    So what? Black people have been enslaved en masse in Southern states before. Do you also think that could be pulled off again?

    There are lots of things that have been done before that cannot be done now. Are you aware of this? Apparently not.

    Biden isn’t going to get better and the American voters don’t think he is fit to serve another term.

    Cool story. Biden is still not likely to drop out.

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  56. Kurtz says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    Your examples were in completely different media eras. You are reaching.

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  57. Kathy says:

    @gVOR10:

    That’s far more serious.

    The United DC-10 that crash landed at Siux City, Iowa, suffered from full hydraulic failure. This was a result of an uncontained engine failure, which damaged or took out all the hydraulic systems when it blew. The crew were left pretty much without controls., They had to steer by unbalancing the thrust of the two remaining engines, and control altitude by managing their speed.

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  58. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Chip Daniels:

    And I believe that most persuadable voters know it. [emphasis added]

    Alas, there’s the rub. The election is in the hands of the great middle. The common clay of the American West, if you will.

    I won’t go on, we all know the punchline.

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  59. Kathy says:

    @Jen:

    It’s come up a lot lately when I look up ice cream recipes.

    @Neil Hudelson:

    The lemon might work. The sugar won’t. I don’t think I’ve added sugar to anything since 2014 or so. avoiding it has given me a terrible time making sorbets.

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  60. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    Oh noooooeeees! We’ve lost the Ragin’ Cajun! The kicker is that Carville is 79 himself. (A 79 year-old lecturing politicos on the perils of having old people in charge of stuff is just too ironic for me.) I’d forgotten how old he is. Then again, I frequently forget how old I am, too. (And I’m a mere child by comparison.)

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  61. Kathy says:

    @Jen:

    Like, at least wait to see what the polls, and more important the internal polls, say before demanding the candidate withdraw from the race.

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  62. Bobert says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    His [Biden] staying is a bad thing. A wannabe dictator gets the oval office next January.

    And his dropping out at this stage guarantees a Trump victory. That’s what you seem to be promoting.

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  63. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Kathy:
    Cook Report just moved six states from toss-up to Trump.

    Biden is destroying his own legacy, and Jill Biden will be treated by history as another Edith Wilson.

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  64. Barry says:

    @Jen: “What will it take for Democrats to behave like Republicans, or, say, take the advice of any decent crisis communications expert: DO NOT ALLOW THE CRISIS TO LEACH INTO ANOTHER DAY.””

    Which is why Trump is not running?

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  65. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Barry: In fairness, Trump has his detractors (well, one anyway) too. It seems to me that the difference is that Republiqans are not a much “hair on fire” types as Democrats seem to be.

    ETA: And I realized that I should note that he is apparently looking a different polls than others of us are–or maybe we’re all just MSU to suit our arguments (??).

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  66. SenyorDave says:

    Biden’s debate performance has created a situation where we have to pray that enough people can be convinced that Trump is so bad that they have to vote against him. I am 65 and have never voted, or even considered voting for a Republican for national office (to me Reagan was the point at which the GOP decided that competence didn’t really matter). At this point Biden is my last choice among any Democrat who could possibly run. We are now at the point where every day another story is leaked about the “accommodations” mad for Biden, including one that literally said that they moved a meeting because it was past his bedtime.
    I keep thinking about what Biden said abut every day being a test of his fitness. How is that different than the guy who says I can still drive, every day that I don’t have an accident shows I am fit to drive.
    I agree with MR that Biden will have destroyed his legacy if he loses. Trump is completely unfit and morally bankrupt, and the people who will be making the decisions are possibly more evil than Trump himself. If Trump wins, him stroking out won’t even help.
    And I don’t give a shit what Jill Biden says, IMO her input is useless.

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  67. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kathy: The trick (and I’m sure you already know this) is that the sugar provides some of the volume and structure for the product. I don’t remember what is used for structure in low sugar products anymore (and lots of them are only so-so substitutes anyway), but vegetable gum comes to mind for some reason (guar gum, specifically). Are there sugar-free ice cream and sorbet recipes available on the internet? Perhaps pectin would work also.

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  68. Kathy says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    I’m thinking we should lease our apartment to US refugees, and move to a smaller, cheaper place. I’m not sure the numbers work out.

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  69. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Kathy:
    If I could work out the taxes and the issue of kids, I’d already be in Spain, Portugal or France. May yet.

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  70. DK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Oct 4, 2022 — Cook Report moves Pennsylvania Senate race towards Republicans, from Lean-D to Toss-Up

    Nov 8, 2022 – Democratic candidate John Fetterman wins that race comfortably by 5-points, weeks after a ‘disastrous’ debate — and months after stroke that supposedly left him ‘incapacitated’ with his wife Giselle being smeared as Lady MacBeth and worse.

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  71. Gustopher says:

    @DK:

    Black people have been enslaved en masse in Southern states before. Do you also think that could be pulled off again?

    The prison industrial complex is pleased to slip under the radar.

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  72. Kathy says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    Water is an insane substance*.

    Sane substances expand when heated and contract when cooled. Water expands when it cools, even as it freezes. But if you keep lowering its temperature, it will eventually contract.

    I’m not sure exactly how this affects sorbets, but I assume it does. Now, solutions of water and stuff freeze differently. and then there are suspensions…

    Sugar free recipes for sorbets use things like allulose, monk fruit (whatever that is), and other such things. I’ve tried allulose. At first it was ok, but the sweetness kind of got sickly as I consumed the portion.

    I’ll keep looking…

    *It gets it from hydrogen, which is also highly peculiar. oxygen is far more rational.

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  73. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Jill Biden will be treated by history as another Edith Wilson.

    Where is all the Jill Biden hate coming from? There was one of our resident trolls, then Bill and now you.

    Am I missing the big news stories about her? Skimming the news tabs of Google and DuckDuck I see that her ex-husband is criticizing her, and Megyn Kelly and Fox. And everything else is the bog standard “Jill Biden says her husband is fit” stuff. And the Daily Mail calling her Lady MacBiden. So, her ex, and some right wingers… people no one should ever listen to.

    Is there something else out there?

    When did she become evil? Even if we assume Biden is slipping, why do we assume ill intent? Has she done anything to suggest that she is not herself in denial of her husband’s hypothetical senility?

    I do miss the Melania Christmas Decoration Horror Shows. Depriving us of those was a little evil.

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  74. Jen says:

    @Barry: Trump ignores the crisis. Just moves on to something else. That’s what I’m asking for here.

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  75. Beth says:

    @DK:

    So what? Black people have been enslaved en masse in Southern states before. Do you also think that could be pulled off again?

    I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I think the answer is yes. I don’t think it would be easy, but then maybe @Gustopher: points out the way to make it easy.

    The other aspect of this is if the GOP manages to win and Miller gets to start deporting people en mass, it wouldn’t be all that hard to end up with a bunch of black people in camps or dead.

    With all the talk about the support that Trump has among Black and Latino men; I’ve been suspecting that a lot of those men think they are White, or close enough to Whiteness to be safe. Like being White won’t save me and I’m roughly the shade of a Klan robe. At the end of the day, I’m the wrong kind of White. I’ll be in the concentration camp with Thomas and Robinson and I’ll at least understand why I’m there.

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  76. DK says:

    @Gustopher:

    Where is all the Jill Biden hate coming from?

    At least some comes from a similar place all the Hillary hate comes from — where Kamala hate would come from were she suddenly thrust into the fore by Biden bowing out.

    I do miss the Melania Christmas Decoration Horror Shows

    Melania’s Lovecraftian Christmas Nightmare was the best thing the Trump White House did.

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  77. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Gustopher:
    Hate? I don’t hate Jill Biden, I shared a stage with her at some Library of Congress book thing a few years back. Seemed nice enough. Told the Secret Service to stop kicking me after a while.

    I’m predicting not advocating. Interesting video essay from Lindsay Ellis on the topic of Yoko and the many other women who get blamed for some entitled man’s actions.

    ETA: As always with Lindsay she could use an editor. Says the guy who writes 500 page books.

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  78. Gustopher says:

    If Biden does drop out, then he should resign the presidency as well. And in that case, I hope he pardons Hunter on his way out the door.

    Give his kid a fresh start, and one more chance to screw everything up. He probably will, but we’re all pulling for America’s Favorite Failson.

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  79. Gustopher says:

    @DK:

    Melania’s Lovecroftian Christmas Nightmare was the best thing the Trump White House did.

    Putting Trump and Lovecraft in the same sentence reminds me of how amazingly racist Lovecraft was.

    But I loved those Bleeding Trees, just as I love Cthulu.

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  80. DK says:

    @Gustopher:

    But I loved those Bleeding Trees

    Redrum the Halls: Christmas At the Overlook Hotel didn’t do it for me. Creative tho.

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  81. Kathy says:

    I’m reminded of the popular story of how Parmenio died.

    Briefly, Parmenio got into an argument with Alexander (that one) at a banquet. Things got heated, harsh words passed, violence was attempted, until the generals and other guests removed Parmenio from the premises.

    Alas, the minor Greek general, best known for how he died*, returned and resumed the argument. He persisted despite attempts by others to again remove him. And Alexander killed him.

    I forget the details of the argument, but it had to do with the assignment Alexander gave him. He saw it as a demotion, and, worse for a Macedonian, it diminished his prestige. So, he had good reason to argue, or plain to be mad at his king, no matter how The Great he was. But it wasn’t worth his life.

    A drunken rage is not the same as panic, but it’s the next worst thing. People do not think rationally in either condition. The post-debate polls didn’t move much. the ongoing push Biden out polls are moving too much in the wrong direction. IMO, it’s time to let go of the panic and simply stop trying to move someone who will not be moved. Get him to take a cognitive assessment and see what’s what first, at the very least. But right now, the panic is causing more damage than the disaster at the debate.

    *He should have been remembered for provoking an Alexandrian witticism.

    Darius III, King of Kings, offered Alexander his daughter’s hand, and a great big chunk of the Persian Empire. Alexander refused. Parmenio said “If I were Alexander, I would have accepted.” To which The Great replied, “So would I, if I were Parmenio.”

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  82. Michael J Reynolds says:

    @Gustopher:

    how amazingly racist Lovecraft was.

    Bringing up an interesting moral dilemma, given recent stories the previously sainted Alice Munro and the almost-as-sainted Neil Gaiman.

    Back when progressives were cancelling every writer they could think of – before DeSantis et al reminded them what side they’re supposed to be on – I made the argument that it is self-harm to reject a book on the grounds that the author was an asshole. Can’t hurt Lovecraft or Jack London or Alice Munro, but you can hurt yourself if you don’t read them.

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  83. Kathy says:

    @Kathy:

    Sorry, I made a major error. It wasn’t Parmenio who sought and found death at a banquet, but Cleitus.

    Alexander did not kill Parmenio directly, but sent assassins to kill him. The reason was Parmenio’s son was involved in a conspiracy against The Great.

    hard to keep straight all the quarrelsome Macedonians.

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