Wednesday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Nevertheless, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., has said in a letter to GOP House members that he opposes impeaching the president. He said doing so would further divide the country in the wake of the attack on the Capitol last week and proposed other ways the House could respond.

    Fuck this guy. If he was at all interested in unifying the country he’d commit seppuku on live TV.

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  2. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Former Michigan governor Rick Snyder, his health director and other ex-officials have been told they’re being charged after a new investigation of the Flint water scandal, which devastated the majority Black city with lead-contaminated water and was blamed for a deadly outbreak of Legionnaires’ disease in 2014-15, the Associated Press has learned.

    Two people with knowledge of the planned prosecution told the AP on Tuesday that the attorney general’s office has informed defense lawyers about indictments in Flint and told them to expect initial court appearances soon. They spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

    The AP could not determine the nature of the charges against Snyder, former health department director Nick Lyon and others who were in the Snyder administration. The attorney general’s office declined to comment on details of the ongoing investigation. Spokeswoman Courtney Covington Watkins said investigators were “working diligently” and “will share more as soon as we’re in a position to do so”.

    Snyder’s attorney didn’t return calls seeking comment.

    About damn time.

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  3. OzarkHillbilly says:

    A Republican member of Congress claimed on Tuesday to have undergone a “rite of passage and badge of honor” and accused Harvard University of “caving to the woke left”, after she lost an advisory role for perpetuating Donald Trump’s baseless claims of widespread voter fraud.

    Representative Elise Stefanik of New York was removed from a senior advisory committee at Harvard’s school of government after she declined to resign voluntarily, according to Douglas Elmendorf, dean of the Harvard Kennedy School.
    …………………………….
    Elmendorf said the decision was not based on political ideology.

    “Rather, in my assessment, Elise has made public assertions about voter fraud in November’s presidential election that have no basis in evidence, and she has made public statements about court actions related to the election that are incorrect.”

    More of this and Republicans just might nurture more than a passing acquaintance with the truth.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Nah, who am I kidding.

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  4. OzarkHillbilly says:

    The world’s oceans reached their hottest level in recorded history in 2020, supercharging the extreme weather impacts of the climate emergency, scientists have reported.

    More than 90% of the heat trapped by carbon emissions is absorbed by the oceans, making their warmth an undeniable signal of the accelerating crisis. The researchers found the five hottest years in the oceans had occurred since 2015, and that the rate of heating since 1986 was eight times higher than that from 1960-85.

    Reliable instrumental measurements stretch back to 1940 but it is likely the oceans are now at their hottest for 1,000 years and heating faster than any time in the last 2,000 years. Warmer seas provide more energy to storms, making them more severe, and there were a record 29 tropical storms in the Atlantic in 2020.
    …………………………………….
    “Ocean warming is the key metric and 2020 continued a long series of record-breaking years, showing the unabated continuation of global warming,” said Prof John Abraham, at the University of St Thomas in Minnesota, US, and one of the team behind the new analysis.

    “Warmer oceans supercharge the weather, impacting the biological systems of the planet as well as human society. Climate change is literally killing people and we are not doing enough to stop it.”

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  5. Scott says:

    This is pretty extraordinary. Signed by all 8 members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. However, at the end of the day is the somewhat ordinary idea of reminding every Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine (and now Guardian) to follow their Oath of Office.

    Top military leaders issue warning to troops after deadly Capitol insurrection

    The Defense Department’s top uniformed officials want service members to know that Joe Biden is going to be their next commander in chief, and that any attempt to prevent a peaceful transition of power will have consequences.

    In an internal memo issued force-wide, the Joint Chiefs of Staff called out the ransacking of the Capitol building on Wednesday,

    “We witnessed actions inside the Capitol building that were inconsistent with the rule of law,” they wrote. “The rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence, sedition, and insurrection.”

    The letter’s signees include Army Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, his vice chairman, Air Force Gen. John Hyten, as well as Army Chief of Staff Gen. James McConville, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Gilday, Air Force Chief of Staff Charles “CQ” Brown, Marine Corps Commandant Gen. David Berger, Chief of Space Operations Gen. Jay Raymond and Chief of the National Guard Bureau Gen. Daniel Hokanson.

    “As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution,” they wrote. “Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law.”

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  6. Jen says:

    This accusation is rather astonishing. If true, some Members need to be expelled. Not censured, not “wait and let their constituents decide”–expelled. Out.

    Mikie Sherrill says unidentified lawmakers led ‘reconnaissance’ tours ahead of Capitol attack

    “I also intend to see that those members of Congress who abetted him — those members of Congress who had groups coming through the capitol that I saw on Jan. 5 for reconnaissance for the next day — those members of Congress who incited the violent crowd, those members of Congress that attempted to help our president undermine our democracy, I’m going see that they’re held accountable,” Sherrill said.

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  7. MarkedMan says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: The Flint water crisis is a self contained encyclopedia of political and moral disfunction. This includes the Democratic side, as it’s an article of faith amongst even rank and file Dems that Flint’s water is still dangerous when in fact it has benefitted from one of the most thorough and expensive public infrastructure upgrades for a small city in the nation’s history and now has better water quality at the tap then probably 90% of the municipalities in the country.

    But the overriding takeaway is how it perfectly illustrates Republican ineptitude and evil. The cynical taking away of services from a poor black community to finance tax cuts for the well off. The insistence that libertarian mumbo jumbo should trump reality. And then, when people started dying, the cover ups, the doubling down, the implication that any complaints were fantasies generated by stupid and lazy minorities and their liberal enablers. Snyder knew people were dying and his reaction was to stop measurements and prevent facts from getting out (DeSantis, anyone? Or a dozen other Republican governors in the COVID crisis?) Did he know that Republican officials went as far as falsifying data and covering up deaths? Yes, there is vanishingly small doubt that he knew. And I hope to god it can be proven in court.

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  8. Scott says:

    @Jen: If this is true, she should name names. To make a charge like this, she has to have the receipts.

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  9. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Scott: She most likely is, but via the proper channels to the proper people.

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  10. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Arizona Reps. Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar implicated by activist in Capitol insurrection

    There is more than a little irony in a situation when a couple of guys who spread conspiracy theories about election fraud are implicated in what they’ll call a conspiracy theory.

    A little bit of “you reap what you sow.”

    A little bit of “what goes around comes around.”

    A little bit of “karma is a b****.”

    The right-wing political activist Ali Alexander says that Arizona Reps. Paul Gosar and Andy Biggs worked with him to plan pro-Trump rallies, including the one that ended with an attack on the Capitol.

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  11. CSK says:

    @Jen: @Scott: @OzarkHillbilly: @OzarkHillbilly:

    Biggs and Gosar are probably on the list.

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  12. Jen says:

    @CSK: And Pete Sessions, who openly said in a (now-deleted) tweet that he met with people from STS at the Capitol and encouraged them to keep up the good work.

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  13. CSK says:

    @Jen:
    Gee, on January 7 Sessions is whining about an “illegal and unprecedented charge on the U.S. Capitol.” What did he think would happen?

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  14. OzarkHillbilly says:
  15. ptfe says:

    Question for the Masses: Consider the last 12 years. What events do you think will actually be written about by historians as indicative of these years, which I’m calling “the 2010s” even though they encompass slightly more than that?

    I’m thinking basic memorial history here, the kind of thing where you might sum up a period in a couple sentences with large movements and one or two key events (like, say, the way we sum up the 1920s as a rollicking time followed by a huge market crash and then breadlines and Hoovervilles, or the 1870s as the rise of the railroad & Victorian tech economy along with the end of Reconstruction). What’s going to make it into our “This Was Us” for the 2010s?

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  16. Mikey says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: A hit dog will holler.

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  17. Sleeping Dog says:

    @ptfe:

    For certain Obama’s election and the Trump election and presidency.

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  18. KM says:

    @CSK:
    Apparently, the fact that they now have to go through bag checks and mags scanners is pissing them off. Little Miss Pistol openly refused to let her bag be checked, set off the metal detector than had a showdown with the police days after a violent invasion of those same halls. It seems the snowflake GOP is too good for what the rest of us have to do to attend a HS, go to an airport or courthouse or god forbid, enter Disney World. Wah wah, how inconvenient and invasive, why they never!!! Well, clearly these elites have no idea how the rest of us peons have to live because this kind of crap’s been normal for about two decades!

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  19. Kingdaddy says:

    The House Republicans’ cunning plan is proposing a bipartisan commission to look into the events of January 6 blah blah blah. This is both craven and insulting. “Create a commission” is the oldest, most transparent way of dodging responsibility in politics. We don’t need a commission. The evidence is in front of us. A dangerous man sits in the Oval Office. If this doesn’t rise to high crimes and misdemeanors — lies about the legitimacy of the election, inciting statements intended to fire up fascist would-be insurrectionists — nothing does.

    Oh, and please stuff the “unity” argument in any available orifice. What are we divided over? Holding Trump accountable. The circularity of the argument — don’t divide us further, because we’ve divided the country in our unyielding support of an anti-democratic hatemonger — would be funny, if the stakes were not existential.

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  20. Teve says:

    If you want to hear something infuriating, listen to Kara Swisher’s podcast with the CEO of Parler. The protests were bad “but people feel like the election was stolen from them.” And he called himself “politically neutral” but said he didn’t vote because nothing can stop America from sliding into big government Socialism. And the reason that most of the people on his site are right wingers or libertarian is because liberals hate free speech. And Twitter putting labels on Trump’s lies is authoritarian censorship.

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  21. Teve says:

    @KM: One GOP Congresswoman said that the metal detectors are Nancy Pelosi’s communism.

    You don’t have to be a moron to be a Republican but damn if it doesn’t help.

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  22. JohnSF says:

    @ptfe:
    Depends on how far ahead said historian is writing.
    But past 12 years?
    Offhand:
    Rise of China.
    Awareness, if not action, on global warming.
    The dawn of AI, and computer modelled organic chemistry, protein chemistry, and genetics.
    Mobile phones and the internet merging into global reach cloud data.
    Social media and big date advertising.

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  23. Sleeping Dog says:

    The other day we had a long discussion about social media and people being kicked off, etc. Jonathan Last has a post up contending that; We Need More Social Media Bans.

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  24. JohnSF says:

    @ptfe:
    @JohnSF:
    Also depends: global history or country specific?
    Very different answers.
    My last was re. global.

    Also, historians recall the frustration of the populace over the damned elusive edit function!
    🙂

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  25. Teve says:

    A certain Dr. Joyner noted this tweet on the Tweeting site

    @jenniferjjacobs

    Several teammates and coaches said they recognized gold medal swimmer Klete Keller in Capitol riot videos because he was wearing a U.S. Olympic team jacket

    People of the land. The common clay of the new west…

    There’s a David Foster Wallace essay about minor tennis pro Michael Joyce where he remarked that he couldn’t have really more than simplistic conversations with Joyce, because to become a professional tennis player, the ludicrous amount of training that you have to do just doesn’t leave a lot of time for intellectual development.

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  26. Greg V says:

    Terrifying, from Rep. Ayanna Pressley’s chief of staff:

    “Every panic button in my office had been torn out — the whole unit,” she said, though they could come up with no rationale as to why. She had used them before and hadn’t switched offices since then.

    More here.

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  27. Kathy says:

    I’ve found out John de Lancie, who played Q in three Trek series, narrates several Trek novels, mostly those with Q in it. He’s one of the top fiction narrators I’ve heard. This isn’t saying much,a s I estimate my audio book activity thus far is over 98% non-fiction.

    I put a bunch on my reading list at Scribd. I also have a substantial backlog over at Audible, not to mention podcasts. I almost wish for traffic to recover, so I get more listening time during my daily commute.

    I’m also wondering when, or whether, Q might show up in the new streaming Trek series. In a way he seems passe given the more serious, darker new formats. But can a Picard series be complete without Jean Luc not even once saying “Damn it, Q!”?

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  28. SC_Birdflyte says:

    I’m glad I stocked up on popcorn the last time I was at the grocery store. Today looks to be verrrry interesting.

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  29. Mikey says:

    Amazon has filed a response to Parler’s antitrust suit the latter filed when Amazon dumped it from AWS and wow, what a shithole of violent, racist garbage Parler is. It’s pretty obvious Parler was in violation of AWS terms of service and did nothing to rectify that. Here are some examples provided by Amazon in its court filing.

    “We are going to fight in a civil War on Jan.20th, Form MILITIAS now and acquire targets.”

    “On January 20th we need to start systematicly [sic] assassinating [sic] #liberal leaders, liberal activists, #blm leaders and supporters, members of the #nba #nfl #mlb #nhl #mainstreammedia anchors and correspondents and #antifa. I already have a news worthy event planned.”

    “Shoot the police that protect these shitbag senators right in the head then make the senator grovel a bit before capping they ass.”

    “After the firing squads are done with the politicians the teachers are next.”

    “White people need to ignite their racial identity and rain down suffering and death like a hurricane upon zionists.”

    “We need to act like our forefathers did Kill [Black and Jewish people] all Leave no victims or survivors.”

    “Hang this mofo [Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger] today.”

    “HANG THAt N***** ASAP”

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  30. CSK says:

    @KM:
    I assume Boebert got on a plane to fly to D.C. Did the airline permit her to pack her pistol when she boarded?

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  31. Joe says:

    Social media and big date advertising.

    Sorry, JohnSF, but this made me chuckle. Perhaps we should start referring the edit function as “Q” so we, like Picard, can say, “damn it, Q.”

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  32. Teve says:

    @Mikey:

    “White people need to ignite their racial identity and rain down suffering and death like a hurricane upon zionists.”

    checking my torso…nope, no ignition button. I still like that R. Kelly song though.

    As always, white supremacists are the least supreme of us white people. 😛

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  33. grumpy realist says:

    Turns out my friend-who-has-gone-down-the-Trump-rabbit-hole has been kicked off Facebook and is (of course) fuming about censorship. Since I haven’t been reading his posts I have no idea whether it was one over-the-top statement or he just got caught up in an AI-mandated purge. I’m tempted to tell him he’s the equivalent of someone who pals around with a bunch of drunks who start fights in bars and now is surprised that the bar owner won’t let him in any more….but what’s the use.

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  34. Michael Cain says:

    @Teve:

    Several teammates and coaches said they recognized gold medal swimmer Klete Keller in Capitol riot videos because he was wearing a U.S. Olympic team jacket

    The US Olympic team includes plenty of people with crappy right-wing personal politics. This is not particularly surprising, given how many sports there are where qualifying means being a member of a family that can afford the very large outlays necessary. To pick an illustration of the cost from a sport I know, consider fencing (it’s been in every modern Olympics).

    If you’re going to make the team and hope to be competitive at the world level at age 18, a few years before that you have to start spending significant time in Europe where you can fence in competitions against a variety of world-class fencers. The Olympic Committee doesn’t pick up those expenses; company “sponsorship” of athletics is usually limited to equipment, not travel and hotel expenses; if your family’s not wealthy enough, you aren’t going to make it. I met a woman once whose dream from the time she was 13 was to make the US Olympic fencing team. She did — and her parents took out a large second mortgage on their house to finance her chance at it. As to the patriotism angle, in the year the Olympics is held it takes the place of the World Fencing Cup. If that’s the year you’re peaking and want a shot at being recognized as the best in the world, the Olympics is the only chance.

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  35. JohnSF says:

    @Joe:
    Tinder/Grindr. LOL

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  36. MarkedMan says:

    @JohnSF:

    Rise of China.

    Maybe. Or it could be seen as the end of the rise of China. Or the pivot inwards of China. I don’t think that book has been written yet.

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  37. Teve says:

    This is funny. Parler has sued Amazon for anti-trust something for I guess being a monopoly hosting business, and Amazon replied OK motherfucker and posted a whole bunch of shit that was being said on Parler. Rape threats, death threats, and some racial slurs. Fun for the whole family!

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  38. CSK says:
  39. Teve says:

    @grumpy realist:

    12 years ago I met a friend named Mike at the Starbucks we always hung out at. He was in his early 20s, we had the same hobbies, we were friends of the same woman. Good guy. I liked him. He went into the Army, became a drone pilot, got out, lives in Savanna. He’s slowly, over the last few years, gotten shitty on Facebook. Last year he kept posting shitty replies to women I know. Insulting them. Leaving comments calling one friend of mine, a woman named Pam who’s a lawyer in Chicago and is way smarter than he is, a ‘stupid bitch’ I finally blocked him. I texted our mutual friend ‘what am i going to do with Mike?’ She replied “oh I don’t know. He became a Trump asshole and I blocked him years ago.”

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  40. Loviatar says:

    @MarkedMan:

    This includes the Democratic side, as it’s an article of faith amongst even rank and file Dems that Flint’s water is still dangerous when in fact it has benefitted from one of the most thorough and expensive public infrastructure upgrades for a small city in the nation’s history and now has better water quality at the tap then probably 90% of the municipalities in the country.

    The population of Flint suffered a grievous harm, and then were lied to repeatedly, they have every right to be leery of government assurances. Please don’t make statements like this assigning blame to the Democratic party just because you want to make a both sides do it point.

    Questions:

    Have you tested the Flint water?
    Would you drink this water?
    Would you give this water to a young child in your family?

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  41. Kathy says:

    @ptfe:

    Question for the Masses: Consider the last 12 years. What events do you think will actually be written about by historians as indicative of these years, which I’m calling “the 2010s” even though they encompass slightly more than that?

    It depends largely on when, by whom, and what are the historical fashions at the time.

    By the latter I mean things like the shift from “Great Man history,” to “Balance of power history,” to “broad socio-economic history.”

    I wonder, too, how it helps that times are far better documented now than ever, even other recent times. If Google, for example, saves a person’s location history, you could tell centuries from now where a person was on, say, Jan 6th. 2021 at 3:15 pm, and maybe even what route they took to get there.

    From the tail end of the era*, IMO the signal development is the culmination (one hopes) of the middle-class wage stagnation that began in the 1970s. Will that matter a great dela to historians in, say 2170? Who can tell?

    *Historical eras don’t lend themselves to be easily divisible by ten. Many historians talk of “the long XIX Century,” which comprises the era between Napoleon’s second and final deafest, and the start of WWI.

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  42. Tyrell says:

    NHL season starts tonight. Finally. Some scouts favor Avalanche to win Cup. I’m going with Canadiens.

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  43. Teve says:

    @therecount

    Rep. Ken Buck (R-CO) blames Capitol insurrection on anti-Trump comments from Robert de Niro, Madonna, and Kathy Griffin.

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  44. Teve says:

    @repdlesko

    For members of Congress to enter the floor of the U.S. House, we now have to go through intense security measures, on top of the security we already go through. These new provisions include searches and being wanded like criminals. We now live in Pelosi’s communist America!

    When I took a plane from RDU to JAX i had to stand in a machine that blew air on me to sniff for explosives. STFU.

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  45. Teve says:

    The Atlantic:

    In some ways, developing vaccines has always been the easy part; getting them into people’s arms is the challenge. Vaccines have been around since the late 1700s, and the rollouts have often been precarious—full of blunders, accidental deaths, dashed hopes, and dubious ethical decisions. When the very first vaccination campaign got under way, in fact, it faced such daunting barriers—technological, geographical, and medical—that today’s distribution challenges seem minor in comparison.

    At the end of the 18th century, smallpox was probably the scariest disease on Earth. It spread alarmingly quickly, and every inch of people’s skin, including their face, would erupt with thousands upon thousands of painful, pus-filled sores. Huge numbers of people died from the disease, and many survivors were struck blind, or left with severe scars. The British doctor Edward Jenner observed something strange, however: People who caught a related disease called cowpox never came down with its deadlier cousin. So in 1796, he began giving people cowpox intentionally, rendering them immune to smallpox and creating the first vaccine.

    Read: The last smallpox patient on Earth

    But the breakthrough introduced another dilemma: How could doctors deliver vaccines to people who needed them? Within Europe, distributing the vaccine was manageable. People with cowpox developed blisterlike sores filled with a fluid called lymph. Doctors would prick open the sores, smear the lymph on silk threads or lint, and let it dry. They would head to the next town over and mix the crusty lymph with water to reconstitute it. Then they’d scratch the fluid into the arms or legs of people there to give them cowpox. The process was straightforward but laborious.

    The real trouble started when doctors tried to vaccinate people who were far away. The lymph could lose its potency traveling even the 215 miles from London to Paris, let alone to the Americas, where it was desperately needed: Smallpox outbreaks there were verging on apocalyptic, killing up to 50 percent of people who got the virus. Every so often threads of dried lymph did survive an ocean journey—a batch reached Newfoundland in 1800—but the lymph was typically rendered impotent after months at sea. Spain especially struggled to reach its colonies in Central and South America, so in 1803, health officials in the country devised a radical new method for distributing the vaccine abroad: orphan boys.

    The plan involved putting two dozen Spanish orphans on a ship. Right before they left for the colonies, a doctor would give two of them cowpox. After nine or 10 days at sea, the sores on their arms would be nice and ripe. A team of doctors onboard would lance the sores, and scratch the fluid into the arms of two more boys. Nine or 10 days later, once those boys developed sores, a third pair would receive fluid, and so on. (The boys were infected in pairs as backup, just in case one’s sore broke too soon.) Overall, with good management and a bit of luck, the ship would arrive in the Americas when the last pair of orphans still had sores to lance. The doctors could then hop off the ship and start vaccinating people.

    If I have been born 100 years ago I would’ve found a cliff and thrown myself off it.

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  46. CSK says:

    Ali Alexander of “Stop the Steal” says that Pete Gosar, Andy Biggs, and Mo Brooks met with him to coordinate what happened on Jan. 6.

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  47. Mu Yixiao says:

    Some stark images:

    Armed soldier in the US Capitol.

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  48. Jay L Gischer says:

    @CSK: Thing is, Ali Alexander is such a media whore he might well have done that, even though the assumption was that it all stays outside and (relatively) peaceful.

    I don’t really trust the dude at all. I will let law enforcement sort it out.

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  49. Jen says:

    I’m barely following the impeachment discussion/debate, but it’s looking like 100% gaslighting from Republicans. There’s so much gaslighting DC probably won’t need electricity for days.

    I just don’t understand how we get past this as a country. Some of these people clearly believe this horsesh!t they are shoveling our way.

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  50. CSK says:

    @CSK:
    Correction: I meant Paul Gosar.

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  51. Mikey says:

    @Mu Yixiao: Republicans told me if I voted for Biden, America would turn into Venezuela, and they were right!

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  52. CSK says:

    @Jay L Gischer:
    The last I read, Biggs is denying he ever met or worked with Alexander. Brooks says his words at the “rally” were taken out of context. He added that he was invited to speak there by the White House.

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  53. Kylopod says:

    @CSK: Stop the squeal!

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  54. MarkedMan says:

    @Loviatar:Really? Your take away is that I think Democrats are equally to blame as Republicans in the Flint water crisis? You missed the part where I said I thought the Republican governor should go to prison?

    As far as my comment about what all too many Democrats believe, I stand by it. We rightly castigate Trumpers for being completely unwilling to accept reality when it comes to the Presidential election and climate change and, well, virtually everything. We disdain them because when they are shown the conflicting evidence they attack the messenger and say they will never believe anything that comes from the lame stream media.

    The cause of the Flint water crisis is a travesty and a criminal act. But the (eventual) response and the results are a success and should be celebrated as such. Instead we have national Democratic leaders barnstorming in with trucks full of bottled water continuing to sow fear in the residents. That’s wrong, and I’ll call it out.

    An no, I didn’t test the water personally, but I followed the issue closely enough to know how many independent sources have been testing the water and reporting good results. So yes, I would drink the water, and I would let my (formerly) young kids drink the water.

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  55. MarkedMan says:

    @MarkedMan: Adding one more thing. This is also incredibly tactically stupid on the part of the Democrats. We have a case where Republicans, thinking they could get away with harming the little guy, caused death and illness. Democrats found out, raised holy hell, and forced through reforms that resulted in Flint having cleaner water than almost any of the surrounding towns, even the white ones. Why are Democrats still hawking fear? Shouldn’t the message be, “Look at what Democrats can do for you!”, shouted from the rooftops?

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  56. MarkedMan says:

    @MarkedMan: (Wow, I’m on a roll). Another tactical mistake: when the surrounding white communities say “sure, you’ll help the minorities, but what have you done for us?”, the Dem’s could prate on endlessly about white privilege. But wouldn’t it be better to say, “We are the party of clean water! Vote us into your town and we’ll send a test kit to every household! If we find problems we’ll do something about it! We aren’t the party of sweeping things under the rug. After all we care about all kids, we care about your kids, not whether some underperforming rich guy loses his water contract!”

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  57. Loviatar says:

    @MarkedMan:

    I had an occasion recently to reread Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail and this quote jumped out at me. You should read the letter and see if any of it applies to you and your words.

    “First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”

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  58. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    If they had deployed them on 1/6 nothing would have happened and 5 people would still be alive.

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  59. Kathy says:

    Surely something as historically extraordinary as a second impeachment warrants hearty congratulations, and perhaps also a gift.

    I’m thinking a trash can, spray-painted gold, to store his political ambitions in.

    ReplyReply
    2
  60. CSK says:

    @Kathy:
    I’m going to have a drink. But that’s just me. YMMV.

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  61. CSK says:

    Ten Republicans voted to impeach Trump.

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  62. Jax says:

    @Kathy: He’s finally done something nobody else has done!!! 😉

    ReplyReply
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  63. Mikey says:

    @pwnallthethings
    Presidential impeachments, a brief summary:
    1789-2016: 2
    2017-2021: also 2

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  64. Scott says:

    This made me laugh.

    Queens man impeached — again

    A Queens-born real estate developer made history Wednesday when he became the first U.S. president ever impeached twice by the House of Representatives.

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  65. Kathy says:

    @Jax:

    He’s a cinch to make it into the repository of trivia questions.

    On other things, it’s been only 67 days since the election was called for Biden and today. it seems a lot longer than that.

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  66. Mu Yixiao says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    If they had deployed them on 1/6 nothing would have happened and 5 people would still be alive.

    Unproveable.

    It’s just as much a probability that a pushback from armed military would have inflamed the insurgents even more and those unused guns and pipe bombs would have been used.

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  67. CSK says:

    @Scott:
    There’s nothing–absolutely nothing–that Trump hates more than being reminded of his Queens origins.

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  68. Mikey says:

    10 House Republicans held to their oaths, and voted to impeach.

    10 isn’t a lot, but it’s enough to make this the most “bipartisan” Presidential impeachment in American history.
    – Zero Republicans voted to impeach Trump the first time.
    – Five Democrats voted to impeach Clinton.
    – No Democrats voted to impeach Andrew Johnson.

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  69. wr says:

    @Michael Cain: “The US Olympic team includes plenty of people with crappy right-wing personal politics”

    Sure, crappy politics. But how astonishingly stupid do you have to be to wear your Olympic jacket while participating in felonies?

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  70. Tim says:

    Here are the members of Congress who did not vote today, either for or against impeachment. All of them are Republican.

    Andy Harris, Maryland, 1st District
    Kay Granger, Texas, 12th District
    Greg Murphy, North Carolina, 3rd District
    Daniel Webster, Florida, 11th District

    Kay Granger had previously stated after the election that Trump should just move on and not contest it. She tested positive for Coronavirus and may not have been in Washington for the vote, but current house rules allow members to select a proxy to vote on their behalf because of the Covid pandemic.

    I’ve seen nothing so far about the others. I’m actually shocked that Andy Harris didn’t vote, especially after his loud altercation yesterday during the debate on the House floor and his votes against certification of Biden’s victory.

    It will be interesting to see the reasons for not voting.

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  71. Greg V says:

    @Greg V: I posted this somewhere else and someone pointed out that I didn’t make it obvious enough from the quote: the panic buttons were removed BEFORE the riots began. That’s what makes it sinister.

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  72. flat earth luddite says:

    @Teve:
    Ah, Teve, my day is now complete. Good hot black coffee, nice cigar, sunshine, and now, a Blazing Saddles reference. “Morons,” indeed.

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  73. Kathy says:

    Here’s what baffles me:

    Today several House Republicans stated they blamed Trump for the January 6th Putsch, but they would not vote to impeach him.

    So, let’s be clear: they think Trump is responsible, at least in part, for an attempt to take down the US government, but that doesn’t merit impeachment.

    Then what does?

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  74. Kylopod says:

    @Tim: I’m reminded a little of when Arlen Specter voted “not proven” during the Clinton impeachment (it was counted as a no). There was apparently some precedent for that kind of vote in legislatures–as I understand it, it’s sort of an impeachment-trial equivalent to voting “present.” I think that’s more or less what these nonvoting Republicans today were aiming for as well.

    ReplyReply
  75. Loviatar says:

    @Kathy:

    So, let’s be clear: they think Trump is responsible, at least in part, for an attempt to take down the US government, but that doesn’t merit impeachment.

    Then what does?

    Lying about a blowjob.

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    4
  76. Gustopher says:

    Apropos of nothing, I’ve been thinking of Revenge of the Sith, and Palpatine invoking Order 66. If there was a burst of static, he might have told the clone troopers in invoke Order 60 or Order 6.

    Instead of slaughtering the Jedi and overthrowing the Republic, they might have been trimming the hedges and cleaning up litter or something. (I don’t think the order orders the clones were created with are known, so… they could involve lawn care)

    Clear communication is one of the keys to success in a coup.

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  77. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Loviatar: As I might have said to one of my comp students years ago,

    I realize that you believe that the quote says 100% of what you need to say to make your point, but the reader is struggling to make the connection. [While I understand that you don’t want to attack what Marked Man has said,] You need to point at specific things that __ said that cause you to see that he is

    white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a more convenient season.

    The reader is not seeing this clearly.

    [And please feel free to tell me “you just nutha ignint cracker” if you must, my students used to all the time.]

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  78. @Kathy:
    What does?

    Changing the letter behind his name to “D”.

    ReplyReply
    1
  79. Tyrell says:

    @Sleeping Dog: The social media including Facebook and You Tube get a lot of use by churches who post photos, music, and sermons. A lot of church members follow those.
    “who’s going to monitor the monitors?”

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  80. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kathy:

    So, let’s be clear: they think Trump is responsible, at least in part, for an attempt to take down the US government, but that doesn’t merit impeachment.
    Then what does?

    My guess is having (D) next to your name, but some people think I’m too cynical. [I’m more inclined to agree with Lily Tomlin that the problem is keeping up, not being too much so.]

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    1
  81. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Loviatar: “Lying about a blowjob.”

    Well, that too, but only if you have (D) next to your name.

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  82. CSK says:

    @wr:
    Apparently he wanted his teammates to be able to recognize him. These people are not overly endowed with brains.

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  83. DrDaveT says:

    @Kathy:

    He’s one of the top fiction narrators I’ve heard.

    If you get a chance, someday try a book read by the late Patrick Tull. He was amazing. His edition of the Patrick O’Brian Aubrey/Maturin series is masterful.

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  84. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Tyrell: And yet the article in question MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO STATEMENT THAT EVEN SUGGESTED that churches should be banned from posting photos, announcements, or sermons. Not even in the case of Reynolds’ current favorite boogieman, White Evangelical Congregations.

    Up your game Tyrell. You’re losing credibility.

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  85. CSK says:

    @flat earth luddite:
    Several years ago, I realized that there’s a Blazing Saddles quote for almost every occasion.

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  86. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    I expect, absent a pardon from El Grand Cheeto Himself, most of the cases stemming from the Putsch of January 6th will plead out to some reduced charge. A few will inevitably go to trial.

    I expect some form of outlandish defense based on some obscure misunderstanding of the Constitution, as these extremists are wont to favor. I also expect at least one will attempt the “following orders” defense, claiming The Orange Moron Himself ordered an assault on the joint session to stop Grand Theft Electoral (some people say that’s the Grandest Theft there is!).

    Of course, I could be wrong.

    What’s really clear is that most of them believed themselves to be safe from the law, as they even bragged about their crimes on social media.

    Not surprised to find morons following another moron.

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  87. CSK says:

    To use, and slightly alter, one of Trump’s favorite locutions: Many legal experts are saying that he’s a flight risk if he faces prosecution.

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  88. CSK says:

    @Kathy:
    There is video and audio of people claiming that they stormed the Capitol because Trump told them to do so.

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  89. flat earth luddite says:

    @CSK:
    True. And when that fails, I look to Princess Bride, Young Frankenstein, Father Goose, and Casablanca. But then again, I am but a simple farmer…

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  90. Loviatar says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    I’m a little confused by the quote bracketing, so my response may not line up with what you’re trying to say with your comment.

    I realize that you believe that the quote says 100% of what you need to say to make your point, but the reader is struggling to make the connection.

    You’re correct, I obviously need to do a better job in communicating my point.
    However, I find it difficult to accept, someone who starts off by blaming the citizens of Flint and the Democratic party for their rightful skepticism of the government proclamations regarding Flint’s water quality. @MarkedMan didn’t say I understand their skepticism and we need to work to convince them of the government’s position, no he blamed them for politicizing the situation. In other words Republican’s are evil, but Democrats are almost as bad for not trusting the evil people.

    My Point:
    To paraphrase Dr. King, my regrettable conclusion is that the left’s great stumbling block in the stride towards equality and a better America is not the Republican party, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice. They claim to agree with you in the goal you seek, but can’t agree with your methods of action. They feel only they can set the timetable of action and constantly advise the left to wait for a more convenient season.

    ReplyReply
  91. CSK says:

    @flat earth luddite:
    Ah, the common clay of the new west.

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  92. Tim says:

    Check out this idiotic article from the Right Wing “Newsbusters” website that they published the evening of 5 January BEFORE the insurrection on the 6th. You may want to hurry before they realize how stupid it makes them look and delete it.

    From the article:

    “The CBS Evening News wore their hatred for Trump supporters on their sleeve Tuesday as anchor Norah O’Donnell and White House correspondent Weijia Jiang claimed, without evidence, that pro-Trump protesters gathering in Washington, D.C. on Wednesday planned to bring “weapons” and “storm the Capitol” building in some kind of coup attempt.”

    ReplyReply
  93. Tim says:

    Dammit! I hate that there is no “edit” button!

    Here’s the link I botched in the post above:

    https://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2021/01/05/cbs-claims-trump-supporters-plan-storm-capitol-weapons

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  94. Grewgills says:

    @Loviatar:
    My reading of MarkedMan wasn’t that we was criticizing the citizens of Flint, rather he was criticizing politicians that are claiming that the water situation in Flint hasn’t been addressed. He agreed that indictment and prosecution of republicans responsible for poisoning the citizens of Flint was not just deserved, but long overdue. He didn’t count the misdeeds as equivalent, rather he called on ‘his side’ to hold to the facts, as we rightly tell ‘their side’ to do.

    Look, I’m probably at least as left leaning as you, but even I find your knee jerk responses strident to the point of being off putting even when I’m agreeing with you on the substance. It is that type of response that alienates current and potential allies. I don’t think you will change his opinions or votes, nor will you change mine, but general uncharitable shittiness to 80-90% allies isn’t helpful to the causes you appear to care about.

    To be clear, my response here isn’t just about this incident, rather about a pattern of condescending rudeness towards our hosts and other commenters that isn’t justified 80-90% of the times I’ve seen it deployed.

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  95. Loviatar says:

    @Grewgills:

    To be clear, my response here isn’t just about this incident, rather about a pattern of condescending rudeness towards our hosts and other commenters that isn’t justified 80-90% of the times I’ve seen it deployed.

    You should see the things I write, delete and don’t publish. LOL

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  96. CSK says:

    Ms. QAnon herself, Marjorie Taylor Greene, is planning to introduce articles of impeachment against Joe Biden on January 21.

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  97. MarkedMan says:

    @Loviatar:

    @MarkedMan didn’t say I understand their skepticism and we need to work to convince them of the government’s position, no he blamed them for politicizing the situation. In other words Republican’s are evil, but Democrats are almost as bad for not trusting the evil people.

    Look, if that’s your takeaway from what I said, there is no point in my explaining in more detail.

    ReplyReply
  98. MarkedMan says:

    @Grewgills: Well said.

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  99. Mu Yixiao says:

    @Loviatar:

    They … agree with you in the goal you seek, but can’t agree with your methods of action.

    That, my good citizen, is the core of good politics and progress–and has been since the dawn of civilization.

    We are at our best when we agree on what’s important–even if we disagree on the details–and understand that seeing the situation from different perspectives is the best way to find the path that will bring us to our goal.

    Common ground and middle ground are how most of human progress has happened. We only remember the big battles because they’re exciting–and unusual.

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  100. Mikey says:

    @CSK: Is she the idiot who spoke from the floor of the U. S. House of Representatives, on national television, with a mask that said “censored?”

    Proof that any moron can get elected.

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  101. Mu Yixiao says:

    Small “squee!” moment tonight.

    As I’ve mentioned, I publish an online newspaper for our small town. Yesterday our police chief let me know that the “true crime” TV show he was interviewed for (“Exhumed” on Oxygen) is airing this coming Sunday.

    I’ve dealt with famous people for 30 years and it doesn’t impress me in the least. But I got a jolt out of asking a producer for quotes for my story. I don’t know why that’s so exciting… but it is. 😀

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  102. CSK says:

    @Mikey:
    Yes, she is.

    ReplyReply
  103. CSK says:

    @Mu Yixiao:
    Joplin, MO. is a small town?

    ReplyReply
  104. Loviatar says:

    @Grewgills:

    I don’t write to convince others of the rightness of my positions, I leave that to those with better writing skills. @Michael Reynolds excellent comment today excoriating Conservative policy positions. I am a visitor to OTB for two reasons, both of which I give full credit to our blog host James Joyner and his contributors, primarily Steven L. Taylor.

    1) the ability to gain an insight into the daily Republican/Conservative viewpoint without having to wade through a sewer of racist, misogynist, homophobic filth.
    2) the ability to call out right-wing lies and/or centrist both-siderism without getting banned.

    My commenting style is confrontational and critical. I believe for far too long we’ve been too “nice” to people who spew harmful things with a soft tone. You know, someone you would like to have a beer with, who then commits torture and mass murder.

    —–

    The Flint water crisis is a self contained encyclopedia of political and moral disfunction. This includes the Democratic side,…

    I view the above criticism as an entree into both-siderism, your viewpoint may differ.

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  105. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: Great. Now I know what the government is going to be doing for the next 4 years. Yippie. 🙁

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    1
  106. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mikey: See? I KNEW there was a reason that the Founding
    Fathers [tm] had envisioned a republic where only about 15 or 20% of the population would be eligible to vote. It’s all so clear now.

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  107. Loviatar says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Look, if that’s your takeaway from what I said, there is no point in my explaining in more detail.

    —–
    You blamed the crisis in Flint on

    a self contained encyclopedia of political and moral disfunction.

    —–
    You blamed the Democrats for politicizing the crisis,

    This includes the Democratic side, as it’s an article of faith amongst even rank and file Dems that Flint’s water is still dangerous…

    —–
    Which you equated to;

    But the overriding takeaway is how it perfectly illustrates Republican ineptitude and evil.

    —–
    That seems like classic both-siderism. Please tell me how I misconstrued your point.

    ReplyReply
  108. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    It’ll be one impeachment after the other. Good times, right?

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    1
  109. Loviatar says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    That, my good citizen, is the core of good politics and progress–and has been since the dawn of civilization.

    No that is actually bad politics. You’re pissing off a part of your base by ignoring their call for a place at the table. You’re telling them, we support your goals. but you can’t have any input in the negotiations to achieve those goals. Progress if any, is incremental and unsatisfying.

    —–

    Common ground and middle ground are how most of human progress has happened. We only remember the big battles because they’re exciting–and unusual.

    The US has moved furthest in its quest for civil and equal rights when radical action was taken; civil war and 60s counter-culture. In the period when moderates/centrist held sway we either stagnated or regressed. It kind of tells you something doesn’t it.

    ReplyReply
  110. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    Donnie is so nice they impeached him twice.

    ReplyReply
  111. An Interested Party says:

    It’s just as much a probability that a pushback from armed military would have inflamed the insurgents even more and those unused guns and pipe bombs would have been used.

    Uh huh…those MAGA cowards probably would have ran away with their tails between their legs if they were confronted with a large armed force…

    ReplyReply
    1
  112. CSK says:

    @Kathy:
    Reminds me of an old song: “My Sweet Impeachable You.”

    ReplyReply
    1
  113. MarkedMan says:

    @Loviatar: FWIW, any objection I had to your comment had nothing to do with how confrontational it was. It was that you obviously didn’t spend a single moment trying to understand what I was saying.

    But it gave me a chuckle rather than offense because I wasn’t actually saying what you thought I was but was instead making a comment about how a hypothetical person who paid no attention to others would rush out the gate to let everyone know how righteous they were. I speculated on what such a person would say. And then you said that exact thing. To be honest, at first I thought it had to be meant humorously.

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  114. james hunt says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: The Democrats are by their PLATFORM resd it socialist who hate America!!!!! Is this your party??? Are you a moral derelict, who hates what America is under Trumps Direction, that is not America first, believes in Abortion, illegals that have the same benefits as you and me, depleting the military, defunding police, not holding China to a higher level, not penalicing China for their attack on America with their virus!!!! anti Guns, boarder anti God, and on and on ! Republicans, hell no a bunch of yellow backstabbing Swamp creatures who were stumbling blocks to us by not supporting great direction the President wanted to take us , holding the House and Senate the first two years and getting NOTHING DONE! They have always killed their own that do not go along with Swamp legislation!!! These idiots will take you to the bottom of the swamp!!! IS THERE ANY HOPE FOR AMERICA???? “YES” THE NEW “AMERICAN PATRIOT PARTY” FOR CONSERVATIVE GOD FEARING, AMERICA FIRST,(NOT ONLY BUT FIRST)GUN LOVING, ABORTION HATEING, STRONG BOARDER, LAW AND ORDER, LOW TAXES, LESS RED TAPE, PLATFORM!!! WITH J. DONALD TRUMP AT THE LEADERSHIP OF THIS PARTY FOLLOWED BY STRONG CONSERVATIVE NOT PAID OFF PATRIOTS!!! PETITON TRUMP TO LEAD AND GET OFF THE GROUND, NEW HOPE FOR AMERICA STONG ” PATRIOT PARTY” THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN 2024!!! HOPE FOR AMERICA

    ReplyReply
  115. Mu Yixiao says:

    @CSK:

    I’m nowhere near Joplin, MO.

    ReplyReply

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