Wednesday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Wednesday, November 17, 2021
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66 comments
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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Who’s on first?
(dialogue comes from the Guardian)
as one who has no idea what is on TV, I could almost empathize if it weren’t for the fact that TV is how she makes her living.
@OzarkHillbilly: I also had a very very brief moment of feeling sympathetic to Ms Ingraham. I was oblivious to the important cultural landmark ‘You’.
What struck me is that this apparently shows that Fox’s evening lineup shows are that deeply unscripted. I find that amazing.
Apropos of nothing, is there any chance that I’ll stop seeing articles about Britney Spears sometime soon? Not that I read them; I’m just weary of being greeted by them on every single media site. Just this morning: Vanity Fair, ABC, The Daily Beast. Enough.
@JohnMcC: The folks at FOX are almost as out of touch with modern culture as I am. My excuse is that I just don’t care, but to listen to them America is going to hell in a LGBTQ hand basket and TV is one of the drivers of that.
@OzarkHillbilly:
What’s not on TV. What’s on second.
@Kathy: 3rd Base? I Don’t Know.
@CSK:
Saga Britney, is a car wreck video that is played over and over, people can’t stop looking.
In other pop culture news, I finally gave in to the Taylor Swift PR onslaught and watched the All to Well clip from Saturday Night Live. Jake Gyllenhaal may need to wear disguise to leave the house for the rest of his life. Ms Swift, whom I consider a fine lyricist, can wield words like a stiletto.
@Sleeping Dog:
“Car wreck”…it’s so dispiriting when women become wildly famous for being drug-addled nincompoops, given all the talented, accomplished non-drug-addled women there are in the world.
As for the Swift-Gyllenhaal imbroglio, that too was something I’d heard of but didn’t follow. It seems like a high-octane version of the mystery of the identity of the man in Carly Simon’s You’re So Vain.
@CSK:
A writer in the NYT’s placed All to Well in a category with Simon’s You’re so Vain and Dylan’s, Idiot Wind, saying that All is a totem for the current generation of youth that those songs were for a prior ones.
Yeah, the history of pop media building story lines out of the travails of female celebrities that are exhibiting very public struggles with chemical dependency and mental health issues is long and sordid, but it does generate clicks and tabloid sales.
@Sleeping Dog:
I expect the tabloid media to be obsessed with female car wrecks. What’s disturbing to me is how once-reputable book publishers find them enticing. Of course, this has been going on for about 25 years.
It’s a good thing men don’t have those problems.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Yeah think? For whatever reason following the louts isn’t as popular.
@CSK:
Following the money
@OzarkHillbilly:
But that’s the point. Men do have those problems, but people don’t seem nearly as obsessed with male car wrecks as they do with female ones.
It’s as if women are only interesting to the extent that they’re dysfunctional.
@Sleeping Dog: Misogyny. It’s always misogyny. You know, “Boys will be boys.” while “Those girls are such sluts.”
@CSK: Your sarcasm meter is overdue for recalibration.
So, I ordered a new TV from Walmart Saturday the 13th. the order estimated delivery Sunday 14th, which was rather ridiculous because it’s Sunday. Monday 15th was a holiday (anniversary of the revolution), so I didn’t expect it then either.
The tracker still insists it will be delivered three days ago, though it notes shipping movements the following day (someone spilled soda on the flux capacitor, I suppose). In any case, it didn’t arrive yesterday. At least the tracker doesn’t say it’s been delivered.
Today would be good, as I don’t anticipate getting off work late. I’ll have time, then, to waste configuring the “smart” features of the TV.
I don’t understand how liberals’ message isn’t effective please someone point out where we are going wrong
@CSK:
While I don’t follow any of that, I’m somewhat glad that the conservatorship issue has gotten so much press–especially in media that young people follow. Those types of corrupt conservatorships are a significant portion of elder abuse.
If a young person sees the same thing happening to Grandma, thinks “Hey. That’s like what happened to Brittney!”, and calls the authorities… then that’s a good thing.
@OzarkHillbilly:
I wasn’t being sarcastic. Publishers leap at the chance to publish dysfunctional women authors.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Not to discount your misogyny diagnosis, but the conventional wisdom for who is the market for dysfunctional women tropes, is other women.
But enough about the wretched. If we want to discuss female celebrities in a positive light, let’s go back to Ms. Swift and note that besides being a fine performer and song writer, she’s a killer business woman. For most, if you wanted to control your back catalog, you’d simply buy it, but not Swift. She saw a biz opportunity to re-record the old albums package them up and sell the material again generating a huge revenue stream and depressing the value of old masters. Word is that in the past 18 months the value of the old masters has dropped from $300M to $250M, she will finally by them at a fire sale. Smart cookie that blond lady.
Host: Ok–we’re going to take some callers about Pelosi and the Liberal plot through the BBB law to make America a Communist nation. Let’s go Brandon! Caller you’re on..
Caller: Thank you for having me on Sir. But I disagree that Nancy Pelosi is a Liberal.
Host: Oh great–We got a Lib on the line people. Why do you Libs hate America?!?!?!
Caller: Now wait one minute Sir–I’ve have you know that Im 5’6″ and 120lbs. Which is why Im certain that Nancy isn’t a liberal. What is she? 90lbs soaking wet? Now Trump on the other hand…he has to be kissing 300lbs
Host: [Silence]–ok Brother–WTF are you talking about about?
Caller: Yes Sir. Says right here in my Bible–Proverbs 11:25. And I quote,”The Liberal Soul shall be made Fat..” If Nancy Pelosi was Liberal, the good Lord would have at least made her chunky. She’s as thin as a rail. I believe Nancy is on our side and Trump is the liberal. The Bible does not lie Sir.
Host: [silence] [Dial Tone heard]
The BLS mis-underestimated job growth over the last 4 months by some 625,000 jobs.
The summer was a job boom, not bust.
In addition, Walmart, TJ Maxx, and Target, all report hiring, inventory, and sales, are up.
I guess all the rooting for economic collapse, by the Republicans, was unsuccessful.
But no worries, Republicans are still rooting for COVID to win.
@Jim Brown 32: Please tell me this really happened.
I haven’t finished reading this, but it’s interesting. Measles attacks memory T cells, which leaves those who recover vulnerable to infections they’d previously recovered from or were vaccinated against.
two immediate reactions: 1) children who recover from measles should get again any vaccines they’d had previously, 2) I’m getting an MMR booster soon.
The Qanon shaman, Jacob Chansley, have been sentenced to 41 months in prison.
@Daryl and his brother Darryl:
Allowing the BLS to publish the first estimate ought to be forbidden.
I was going to post this yesterday, but got busy.
As part of the “Infrastructure Bill” is a little thing tucked away that’s going to seriously impact most of the people here.
Cars to be Equipped with “In-Air” Alcohol Detection Systems that Test the Breath of Everyone
That’s from the National Motorists Association, which explains the tech.
Reason has an article that points out that it’s in the Infrastructure Bill.
The Hill reports,
Why would they even think about replacing someone who’s already doing such a fine job as a paid tool of the Koch Bro?
Move over, Ben Garrison and Jon McNaughton. There’s a new artiste taking MAGAWorld by storm! Don’t miss this!!!!!!!!
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/elena-ruseva-trump-maga-artist
@Mu Yixiao:
Mu that headline and article are BS and a great example of taking one accurate fact and surrounding it with lies to rouse the reader.
The envisioned systems are already in place in many luxury cars, though not necessarily used to detect drunkenness. The system uses sensors in the dashboard to identify drowsiness and recommend that the driver take a break. In some systems it sets off a chime and show a coffee cup in the display. In the proposed system that would be expanded to disabling the vehicle if it is determined that the driver is impaired. If the the car is in motion, the self driving features will take control and park the car in a safe location. Unlike the court required systems, there will be no blowing into the tube.
The short timeline, happens because the mfg have all ready told the DoT that this can be done in a short timeframe.
Mu: This is called the Uber app. (I only worry because my, uh, passengers drink a lot.)
@Sleeping Dog:
How is it BS?
a) It’s a new tech called “Driver Alcohol Detection System for Safety (DADSS)” It’s not the same thing that’s in current cars. There are two types. One reads BAC through sampling the air, and the other does so through an IR sensor on the ignition button. This is not the “check the eyes to see if they’re nodding off” sensors that are in some current cars.
b)
That’s literally in the bill just signed by Biden.
@JohnMcC: @OzarkHillbilly: I can see how it would be possible for Laura Ingraham to not know about You. All she would need to be is not a Netflix subscriber. (And even in my one month trial of Netflix a while back, I never encountered the show.) That she didn’t pick up on his saying “It was an episode of a show, Laura.”…“You! You! It’s called You,” only shows how really really clueless she is.
@CSK: I get most of my news feed from MSN and Yahoo, so the only Brittney Spears news items I ever see are Brittney poses for a new Instagram wearing only a thong type stuff (and not very much of that because I rarely scan the headlines beyond the top of the page)-. But I can imagine your frustration and hope for your sake that her current 15 minutes will be over soon.
@Mu Yixiao:
It’s BS because the mfg will not be using the blow in the tube tech.
The law doesn’t specify the tech, leaving that up to the mfg, who already discussed how they will meet the standard.
@CSK: “It’s as if women are only interesting to the extent that they’re dysfunctional.”
And????
@Mu Yixiao: the only reason this would “seriously impact” anyone is if they are in the habit of driving with a BAC over .08. Driving under the influence may be a big thing in your neck of the woods, but for most of us it is seen as a stupid, selfish decision. Probably why reason is against it. They seem to drunk write a lot.
@Sleeping Dog:
I never said it was “blow in the tube tech”. It’s using “sample the air in the cabin” or “touch the button”.
@Thomm:
1) It will impact the price of anyone purchasing a new car
2) Any failures in the system (false positives are a very real thing)
3) The “same the cabin air” tech can easily ding the sober driver if there’s a drunk person in the cabin
4) Many common things show up as alcohol in these tests
5) Anything on logs will be “proof positive” of drunkeness–regardless of whether you are drunk or not.
6) It’s certainly not something that most people want–or it wouldn’t have been snuck into a “must-pass” bill that has nothing to do with car safety.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Well, it’s just annoying the way these articles keep appearing all over the place. I understand that she’s no longer under her father’s control. But why keep reiterating that? Is it that important? Is it even interesting?
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
I assume you’re being sardonic.
@Sleeping Dog: Oh joy that’ll be a fun mess to deal with in the future. In the few years I’ve been the first owner of a new car with an automated collision avoidance system that can’t be turned off for any length of time I have a less then stellar opinion on these systems. Off the top of my head I can vividly describe 5 times the system nearly caused an accident by slamming on the brakes for a non existent car/person. It’s caused more than one road rage incident where the person behind me thought I was being a random asshole. If you’re wondering the sensors are properly working and properly calibrated as defined by the car manufacturer. I’ve taken it to the local dealer and a dealer a good distance away to confirm this.
So it’ll be fun to deal with anti-drowsy sensors once dust or any other number of things including age starts interfering with the sensors…
@Thomm: Can’t tell you how many times I’ve driven a drunk buddy home while I was sober…Since alcohol tends to trigger migraines I’m almost always the designated driver.
A member of the GOP in US House of Representatives posted an anime video of a Dem member of the US House of Representatives being murdered. The House convened for a censure vote. ALL GOP house members except for Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney against censuring him. Think about that.
These are the people Dems will be losing to in 2022. Wake up people.
@Mu Yixiao:
You know, cars would cost a lot less if they didn’t have seat belts, airbags, crumple zones, collapsible steering columns, fenders, padded floors, anti-lock brakes, or even plain brakes, brake lights, headlights, turn signals, windshield wipers, electronic starters, etc.
@Mu Yixiao: Indeed more chips required for cars sounds like a fantastic plan when chip shortages are already causing cut backs in car manufacturing.
Many moons ago a close family friend was killed by a drunk driver. He left behind a wife and two kids. The wife and daughter joined MADD for a few years but left because of the extreme nature of the organization. So I’m less then enthused about requiring the above mentioned systems to be in cars.
@MarkedMan: No, but here in North DeSantistan…it sure could’ve. I type this while sitting behind a Trump F-150 with an ” Armed Citizens Save Lives” bumper sticker
No shit Sherlock.
I WAS.
If I had been anymore sarcastic it would have been the equivalent of smacking the entire OTB commentariat flat on their asses with a 2×4.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Sarcasm is sometimes hard to discern when written, especially online.
On other things, it took Mike Duncan 74 episodes of the Russian revolution to get to the October Revolution of 1917*. It has spanned a long time and two continents (he was living in Paris while writing most of his book on Lafayette).
You can’t say the man does not give deep background.
*Yes, I know it took place in November by the Gregorian calendar.
@Sleeping Dog: Misogyny is an affliction not limited to the XY gene. For some people, building themselves up only works if they can tear others down.
When it comes to Taylor Swift, I leave it to your judgement. Her music leaves me… Flat. I don’t know why. People who’s musical judgement I trust think she’s the best thing since sliced bread. But for me… I love Emmylou Harris. I would kill for Bonnie Raitt. Alicia Keys, Natalie Merchant, Sarah McClahlan,… But not Ms Swift.
Shrug.
@OzarkHillbilly:
It wasn’t apparent to me. I must be insensitive.
You guys might enjoy this. I thought at first it was another one of those “Ivermectin for the WIN” right wing things, but it’s not, it’s this dude looking through the studies that have been done and pointing out the flaws. Sometimes with some pretty funny humor, he kinda reminds me of our late, great Teve in his writing style and funny comments buried in there. 😛
https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted
C’mon guys, what did I say?
You guys know me. You know when I grew up, The 60s and 7os were littered with the corpses of drunken drug ODed male rock and country stars, everyone from Jim Morrison to Elvis to dawg I can’t even remember all of them. Far more men than women. Thank Dawg Johnny Cash survived and dawg curse me that Janis Joplin didn’t.
Maybe you just thought I was so blitzed out of my head I couldn’t possibly remember when Jimi Hendricks suddenly went silent. Lord knows I was pretty out of it back then, but once somebody passed me a dipper that really f’ed me up, I stuck to alcohol (mushrooms don’t count, do they? ‘Cause I tried them a time or 2 and never even saw a magic unicorn)
@OzarkHillbilly:
That wasn’t the comment to which I replied, I don’t think. Oh, well. I’m not offended.
@OzarkHillbilly:
I’ve not paid much attention to the Brittney Spears comments. I was just making a general observation on sarcasm online.
One time I posted a joke comment on FB, making JFK sound/act like Cheeto Benito (I think it was “I called Kruschev, and he said those aren’t his missiles”). I added a tongue-in-cheek emoji, too. I got several indignant replies about comparing St. John of Massachussets with the 5th Avenue Reject.
I thought it obvious it was snark, that JFK Sr. wouldn’t have said something so monumentally stupid (even if Kruschev had claimed those were not his missiles). But there you are.
@CSK: I’ve been lucky about the lifting of the conservatorship in that I only saw that item once. Then again, I probably consume news from fewer total sources than the typical news junkie. I claim that part of the reason is to avoid this sort of duplication, but it really is mostly that I’m a slow reader and I simply can’t use information from a lot of sources except by getting it from other people bringing it up. For example, I’d never be able to keep up with OtB AND the Lucianne/Conservative Treehouse/WorldNut Daily complex, so I’m always grateful for others
sifting through the debrissummarizing for me. (That way, I also get only the really hilarious stuff. 😛 )Me sardonic?? Next, you’ll be accusing me of being cynical and snarky. 😉
@CSK: @Kathy: I’m not gonna beat a dead horse. I just thought you guys knew me better by now.
Some years ago my older brother (whom I haven’t seen since before the pandemic, gotta do something about that) gave me the perfect t-shirt. It said:
“SARCASM
It beats killing people”
I’ve worn that shirt on 3 continents and it’s never failed to elicit a smile among the English speakers.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Have you tested this hypothesis?
@Kathy: I’m not in prison yet.
@Mu Yixiao:
see…now you are dealing with someone who is around cars and some of the most advanced tech in them for a living. The internal sensors can be calibrated to tell where the concentration is coming from if using airborne sensors or a sensor can be put into the start button for any skin secretions. Would not need another chip, just some extra lines in the startup routine code.
If it couldn’t discriminate between driver and passenger, that would put an end to all ride sharing, limo, and taxi services.
People really like to complain about the cost of a new car, but adjusted for inflation and features, they are actually cheaper than ever. Remember when a passenger side mirror was optional?
Now I am not saying that I am for or against the add to them, but reason’s “sky is falling” knee jerk about a new regulation is silly and claiming that it would majorly effect large numbers of us is laughable unless you think we recreationally drive drunk.
@Kathy:
You know… There would be more crows eating our crops if there were less strawmen.
With the exception of recent airbag regulations (which are expensive and have meant that several popular–and safe–vehicles can’t be made anymore) everything you mention has been market-driven.
Aside from MAD(D)* nobody has been asking for “prove you’re sober before you’re allowed to drive” technology.
And nobody here seems to be interested in whether this technology has actually been proven to work, nor what the rates are for false-positives (odd, coming from “the party of science”).
Here’s a bit on the current tech and false-positives. Are you okay with every Cinnabon customer being prohibited from driving?
I can’t find a single reference on Google that mentions the false-positive rate of current ignition interlocks, much less tech that’s not completed (but will be required in 3 years).
And then there’s the race issue. The “touch to prove you’re sober” mechanisms rely on an IR light penetrating the skin and giving an accurate reading of BAC based on [something that hasn’t been specified].
What’s the base on which this tech has been tested? How does it work with olive-toned skin? Really pale skin? Skins with rising degrees of melanin?
What about the host of medical conditions that can produce “alcohol breath”? Like… diabetes–which afflicts 10% of the US population.
And, finally, exactly zero of the things you mention prevent a person from driving–they protect people who are in (or are likely to be in) a collision.
45% of the US population has zero access to any form of public transportation. There are huge swaths of our country where you’re a long way from the things you need**. Like… work, school, food, medicine, medical care, emergency services.
I don’t think it’s outrageous to suggest that a legal requirement which will affect over 220M Americans (last estimate is 222M Americans drive) be presented and voted on openly–with debate on its merits and detriments.
Freedom of movement is one of the primary human rights. It should not be subject to “proof of innocence”.
{sigh} Looks like it’s time to step up my search for a red Barchetta.
==================
* They’ve become a temperance organization, and should just change their name to Mothers Against Drinking (ignoring the fact that half their executive suite and and board of directors are men).
** I once had a discussion with a friend from Amsterdam who asked “why not take the bus?” When I replied that the nearest bus station was 50km away, his shocked reply was “50km?? I’d be in a different country!” Urban progressives don’t understand just how vital cars are to rural people. And, to be quite frank, they don’t care–those are the poor white people.
Following up on a recent discussion of needles, pain, and fear. Here’s a free online workshop for parents and youth on evidence-based tools to reduce needle fear. It’s being delivered by Dr. Meghan McMurtry (University of Guelph) on December 14, 4-6pm EST. Meghan’s a friend and colleague, so I can vouch for the quality.
@CSK: Move over, Ben Garrison and Jon McNaughton. There’s a new artiste taking MAGAWorld by storm! Don’t miss this!!!!!!!!
Reminds me of the black velvet paintings that used to be sold at gas stations about 30 years ago, although that is probably an insult to the black velvet paintings artists.
@OzarkHillbilly:..It’s a good thing men don’t have those problems.
For what it’s worth I knew you were being sarcastic as soon as I read your remark.
Maybe it’s because I worked the telephone lines with a guy from Ozark, Illinois for many years. It’s the only way I can explain it.
If you write something cheekily and sarcastically someone will call you out.
It’s a rule.
Hard, fast rule for me. If I write sarcasm then the next paragraph has to explain explicitly why the previous was in fact sarcasm.
Or just ignore it. Life is too short. Drama you don’t need. Walk away. People get super pissy. Just don’t.
@Thomm:
Those sensors and controlling units add complexity and silicone usage which furthers the chip shortages (even if it’s an IC sensor). How well do those sensors work if someone is wearing a mask? Where would they be located and what are the specs of those sensors? Got some actual numbers I can look up to see what sensors you’re speaking of?
The sensor would need to be controlled and the data parsed by a…. CHIP. So yes from the perspective of the start button system nothing much extra would be added except an additional check. That additional check would be focused at the chip controlling the sensor system which may or may not be a full IC….
@Mu Yixiao:
Well considering how bad facial recognition software tends to be for minorities I don’t have a lot of hope in the nitty gritty.
Personally I would expect something to be found fairly quickly that provides a super simple solution to getting past the test. That’s how things like that tend to go.