OTB’s Future
There's a fork in the road.
As I’ve recounted more than once, this blog started on the free Blogstop service way back in January 2003 but quickly outgrew that, spinning off onto a private domain on a private server, with ever-increasing operation and maintenance costs. Almost exactly two years in, I started running advertisements and declaring OTB as a business on my income taxes. There was a short heyday in which this was a thriving enterprise, spanning a series of spin-off sites. It was, for a time, my full-time job, and for many years, I was even able to pay a few thousand dollars a year to folks who wrote for the site.
The bottom fell out of the ad business years ago, and for more than a decade, expenses have significantly exceeded revenues. After several years of expressing mild concern, my accountant issued a much sterner warning last week that continuing to write off losses year after year could have catastrophic consequences. Suffice it to say, I won’t be doing so in 2024.
When I made the decision to go ad-free five years ago, I observed, “Considering that I make a reasonable living in my day job, I’ve always felt rather sheepish asking people to contribute to the site.” That has remained the case, so I’ve seldom renewed calls for Patreon signups or PayPal contributions. The $1752.32 those avenues brought in last year covers slightly more than a third of what it costs to keep the site going.
The last site refresh was six years ago now and cost on the order of $8000. We’re definitely overdue for another one, as the backend is wonky because the theme isn’t compatible with the latest WordPress version.
Ultimately, then, something’s got to give.
There are times when I wonder if the site hasn’t simply run its course. Blogging is a vestige of another era, and while our logs indicate that we’re still reaching a decent-sized audience (roughly 100,000 pageviews and 20,000 unique visitors monthly), the commentariat comprises fewer than 50 hard-core readers. And, even though I’m not as prolific as I once was here, it still consumes 20 hours or more in an average week.
We could do more to attract patrons, but I’m not really sure what that would entail. We could wall off “Premium” content to those who pay, as is the practice at various Substack blogs and other media outlets. But that has never been the spirit of the site and would have the ironic effect of making it less valuable to paying customers since some of the commenters they enjoy interacting with now would be shut out.
We could move to Substack, a free WordPress site, or a similar alternative and retain a lighter version of the site. Part of the reason OTB is so expensive to run is that it’s so bloody old. There are 58,445 posts, 1,450,482 comments, and 22,891 images being managed by the databases. Indeed, I’ve maintained a separate server just to host images for much of the site’s history to keep it from bogging down. While part of what Steven and I enjoy about the current model is revisiting what we wrote about issues (or the comment section discussions of same) way back when, whether when researching new posts or through the serendipity of the Related Posts feature, that’s likely less of an attraction for most readers. Then again, I’m not sure it’d still be OTB.
I welcome your thoughts on the matter.
- Is there more we can do to attract patrons? If so what?
- If the site moved to a more Plain Jane format, likely sans archives and images, would it impact reader enjoyment?
- Is there some third alternative I’m missing?
I’m a patron now and would be happy to up my monthly donation and I’m sure others would too, with some encouragement. Still, it’s a big gap and it might take a while and a couple of quarterly membership drives before you can suss out if you can cover expenses.
As for site changes, I would miss the history, as I like to look back from to time but the lack of it wouldn’t keep me from visiting.
No matter what you decide, you have my profound thanks for OTB.
As an almost-always lurker and an almost-never commenter and an appreciative-for-many-years daily reader I hope your site doesn’t completely disappear.
My other favorite site, Wonkette, moved to Substack months ago and seems to be just as lively as ever. I send them a few dollars each month as I do your site and would be happy to increase my contribution by a few more dollars if it means that you guys could stay around.
Whatever you do you have my thanks. Your commentariat is the smartest I’ve ever read.
If the photos (which obviously are megabytes) are an important cost driver, then likely those should be stripped as from my own PoV they are rarely of great added value -not worthless to be sure but not of great added value.
The solution on archives may in part depend on this as well – I should imagine textual is less server demanding.
The only possible impact for the Plain Jane from my own PoV, which I have no idea on generalisation, would possibly be on graphs (as like the GDP comparator one of recent posting).
I rarely ever comment here but I read every day. I’d gladly contribute to a Patreon.
To me, the images seem to be the most dispensable. I’d miss the history more, but I could live with it if it keeps the site running.
Also, wanted to mention I’ve been reading since 2006. I’d definitely miss the blog if it went away.
As another long-timer lurker, first-time commenter, I agree with the posts above. I appreciate the smart, thoughtful commentary (thank you regular commenters!). The photos aren’t needed for me, and I almost never look at history. I’ve read this site’s articles and especially the commentary for probably 15 years now – from my earliest use of Twitter. Wow – hadn’t realized it was that long. I appreciate the site and would happily add it to my very short list of places to support (I hadn’t realized that was an option).
To start, thank you for hosting OTB all these many years and for giving us an insight as to your costs and the income that you’ve received from readers.
Moving to a plain-jane platform wouldn’t effect my enjoyment, though I don’t see how you can not have at least some for graphs and charts. Having not delved into the archives, I wouldn’t miss them.
As far as attracting new readers, that happens through exposure to the site. I found OTB via Memeorandum, where a link frequently popped up under “discussion” of a topic. anecdotally that seems to happen less frequently now.
Substack has always struck me as a blogging platform with a strong remuneration function. That’s good for the content generators, but I believe that it limits exposure. There are numerous times that I’ve followed links to paywalled or even registration required content and simply said, ah no thanks and moved on. I doubt I’m the only one with that reaction.
Mildly off topic, but the paywall issue leads back to topics we’ve discussed here on micro-payments, which could be helpful to OTB.
Bumped up my Patreon. I’m mostly a lurker because I don’t have the kind of job that lets me spend a lot of time on the site, so I dip in and out fairly quickly. The conversations are so robust that it feels wrong to not respond to responses right away. As for your questions:
-I’d miss Steven’s Friday photos but dropping images seems like the least damaging.
-I get that it is hard to ask for donations, and I would have increased earlier if I had know what your intake and shortfall was. I’m a little shocked that the Patreon take is so small to be honest. Maybe it would feel better if it was simply a quarterly (or whatever feels good, but more often is better) post where you report the finances? Then it isn’t a special ask, it’s just the 1st of the quarter routine update.
-consider more tiers at Patreon, especially at the higher end, and maybe a “pay what you want” option. Someone might be willing to go $15 but feel like $25 is a stretch
-consider rewriting the tier descriptions (or just dropping the descriptions). Frankly I’m not “on OTB so much I barely get work done” so that tier seems like it doesn’t fit me, and if I was deciding between $25 and $10 that description might tip me to $10
Like everyone else here, thanks to you and the other OP contributors for all your work, you JJ more than the rest. I just upped my Patreon. I could live without the pictures at the top of the post, entertaining as some are. I wonder whether the archives could be pay walled separately, just as an idea.
Bumped up my Patreon.
Give us a status update in a week or so.
– I just upped my Patreon
– Can you eliminate the pictures once the posts are more than a week or a month old?
– A suggestion: First Post on each days open thread should be something like “OTB relies on its readers to support it. Please consider helping by becoming a contributor through Patreon“
While I subscribe to a few Substacks myself, and would probably subscribe to OTB if it moved there, there is an issue with Substack CEO Chris Best seeming to be at least sympathetic to white nationalists (although invariably phrasing it as support for free speech) and the knowledge that the portion of your subscription fee that goes to Substack itself may be being used to pay some of the more prominent yet odious newsletters to stay on the site.
Furthermore, I believe the company as a whole is hemorrhaging money right now, and it would be unfortunate to pursue a huge effort to move there only to have the company go under shortly after you arrive…
@MarkedMan:
Maybe put a fundraising appeal in the “no text here” space above the daily forums?
First, I’m OK with any change you feel is necessary. Dr. T could probably link to his weekly photo if you lose the graphics. Other sites seem to do OK without. I’m also OK with moving to Substack. I only do a couple of Substack subscriptions. They’re not comment centric like OTB. I’ll trust your judgement whether the OTB format would work or not. I dearly love OTB. In my leisurely retirement routine OTB is my first stop after reading the papers online. And usually several times a day. The size and membership of OTB’s commentariat produces the best discussion forum I’ve found online.
Second, I went to increase my subscription amount and on the Patreon site found a message my payment hadn’t gone through. Didn’t say whether that was this month or ever. I had to change my OTB user name and email some time ago because of WordPress issues. Might have lost my subscription then. The Try Again button got me straight to the sign up page where I started a new, higher, subscription. I’ll leave a tickler to myself to check in a month whether Patreon actually did it.
It might help to check on Patreon whether James is getting what you think you’re giving him.
ETA – If it comes to it, I can cheerfully ignore ads on OTB just like I do elsewhere.
Posted prematurely. Copied. Will finish and re-post shortly.
@MarkedMan: @Stormy Dragon: This is a good idea–thanks for the suggestion.
And in regards to the Photo for Friday–I already just link it from Flickr, so that can easily be maintained no matter what else we do.
By the way, James and Steven, you should have hit us up sooner. Plenty of people with spare cash here.
I started reading your blog when I was farming and couldn’t afford content behind a paywall. And I’ll always be grateful for your, Steven’s and Doug’s commentary during these Trump years. I would miss it. When Steven mentioned awhile back that OTB was not profitable, I subscribed (although I found the Patreon-OTB user interface to be awkward).
About increasing participation: I’m not person who can make quick witty repartee, so one barrier for me is that the same cluster of people who are very good at it and have developed online friendships with one another dominate the comments. It’s repetitious, a bit snarky, and I simply don’t enjoy it. That’s just me. Also, I simply don’t have the time to participate frequently. I make comments when I’m deeply moved about something, but seldom feel my input is interesting to other readers, so have stopped commenting for the most part.
One of the “truths” of online content is that once it is offered for “free,” it’s very hard to get people to subscribe. (Learned from my years in systems development in Seattle.)
I facilitate an online family association. I’ve learned the hard way that people love the content, but are reluctant to subscribe. People are so used to getting “free” Facebook, Twitter, Patreon/Discord, and other services that may not understand the true cost of such services, both in economic and privacy terms. In my case, the family association is a labor of love and hobby, period.
About reducing costs, there are lots of online community platforms. You have the experience to talk to vendors and find those who best match your needs. Storage of content should not be prohibitively expensive. I would ask how a given platform will help you comply with privacy laws, which is increasingly becoming an issue if you have European members or members in states that are enacting privacy laws, such as California. Especially with online chats. Also, all things are negotiable…if you speak with someone at Patreon, they might be able to put together a package that is affordable.
Good luck, and I hope you find a safe landing somewhere online. I would truly miss OTB!
Yeah, I think something needs to change.
I work on a commercial site that runs on WordPress, and the idea of an entirely separate server just to host images is not sustainable. WP doesn’t scale well with huge databases, and I feel your pain about things breaking when a new version comes out. We’ve had two developers helping to transition our rickety old system that relies on deprecated plugins to the new version of WP and it’s a nightmare. I can see why your annual costs are so high.
A lot of this really comes down to what you and Steven want in terms of the tradeoffs you’re willing to accept, but personally, I don’t think the current model is likely to ever cover your hosting and server costs, and problems will only continue to grow.
Reducing the images seems like an obvious step, but what would that get you in cost savings if you can keep them sustainable to host on a single server and nuke the old ones? Or, with such a large database – would that be enough? I have my doubts.
Honestly, I think it’s probably time to consider moving to another platform or making a fundamental break from how OTB has been run to this point.
OTB content could be preserved via archive.org and/or archive.ph/archive.is. The latter allows anyone to submit individual URLs for archiving, but OTB has so many that it would take forever to do it that way. Perhaps you could contact them and see if they could archive the whole site for you. The Wayback Machine may do the same thing; they do say to contact them if you have bulk content to preserve, and I know some OTB stuff is already there. Personally, I prefer archive.ph
That way, the content would be preserved. And let’s face it, none of us are getting any younger and you probably want to do that at some point anyway in case something untimely happens. Too much content from the golden days of blogging is gone forever already.
If you could offload the old content this way, you would be able to start fresh, still have access, and be able to link to it going forward wherever you happen to go or however you want to proceed.
Personally, I’ve grown to be a fan of Substack as they’ve improved the platform. The comment system is finally workable (IMO), and they seem to have a lot of options for creators to paywall parts or all of different kinds of content. You might go from hemorrhaging money to at least getting some for the not-insignificant amount of time you and Steven spend posting and moderating.
Of course, there are some tradeoffs there too—especially less control vs. rolling your own as you do now. But is rolling your own really worth it anymore for written content? Plus, platforms can die, or, as everyone who publishes on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, etc., platforms can be sold and changed in ways that you don’t like and have no control over.
OTB is a rarity in many ways. I can honestly give each of you guys what I consider to be the highest complement I can give to an intellectual–I am sure that any opinion offered here was arrived at through hard work and sound process. You all are careful to acknowledge what you do not or cannot know. And it’s clear that you do this for the right reasons. This is why you have such an engaged and engaging community. There may only be 50 or so of us, but it’s a fantastic group by any standard.
Personally, I am sharper, more knowledgeable and a better communicator because of this site and the community that has formed around it.
This may be schmaltzy, but joining the commentariat here has helped me through some tough days. I’ve been an ass on at least a handful of times, and yet, I still feel welcomed and get the impression that my contributions are valued at least some of the time. And I respect the front pagers and regulars enough to know that I should consider reevaluating my position.
I hope you can figure out a way to continue this project. But if you cannot, you all have my sincere gratitude for your work.
Suggestions:
I think most of the graphics content can either be excised or changed to link form.
I am one of the visitors who finds Steven’s Friday photos enjoyable. But providing the link to the specific photo on his Flickr allows those interested to view there and comment on it here. And you won’t have to host the actual content.
The graphics on other posts can be divided into two categories: essential and flavor.
Essential are charts and graphs germane to the topic of the post. The ones added for flavor are non-essential even if they are sometimes entertaining.
From what I can tell, the vast majority of essential graphics are found elsewhere. In which case, the solution is similar to my suggestion for Steven’s photo series. Just provide the link.
Any original graphical content can be uploaded to a free image host and archived the same way. The graphics added for flavor or humor can be omitted.
If you are worried about link rot, Wayback Machine or archive.today would work. The latter should allow you easily create an archive page of the url pointing directly to the image for preservation if archive.org doesn’t catch the file.
Another possibility:
I know when the mixtape site DatPiff had to shut down to retool, they were able to engage The Internet Archive to host their catalog. I don’t know how they would respond, but if you reach out to them, it’s possible they can systematically archive this site in a way that maintains the posts and comments.
If that works or you can figure out another system to archive the content elsewhere, I think it would allow you to delete old content from the private server and replace it with an index of links. Maybe organized by year and month.
I could be wrong, but I think that may be a mostly painless option.
James, thanks for bringing this up. I have enjoyed reading OTB for several years now, and always feel better informed by doing so.
I just went in to patreon and upped my monthly tier. Please continue to keep us informed as to what you may need in the future.
Thank you for all of the hard work, and the first rate blogging
We all know what Trump looks like.
He makes me sick.
Every time I see his ugly mug I want to puke.
You can lose his image anytime.
I think another platform is pretty much a given, as it’s only a matter of time before this entire site collapses under the weight of WordPress plugins and updates. There are a lot of alternatives.
I am wondering what features the modern free/cheap WordPress sites are missing, as this site doesn’t seem to be that fancy.
One thing to add to your list of concerns is moderation. OTB has always been a semi-private (out of the way), walled garden (very small wall that can be easily hopped over), and you’ve always had free rein over moderation. If the site moves to become part of a larger platform you may lose that.
You will want to be able to personally escort literal Nazis from the premises, and not have to rely on the platform’s moderation to remove them from the entire platform. Some of the “free speech zones” are free-range Nazi zones.
What’s less obvious is that you will also want to make sure that the commenters we know and love are protected from the platform’s moderation — we have some trans folks who regularly comment, and mass-reporting campaigns are a thing. If it’s a large platform, with shared logins across sites on the platform, that kind of harassment of that kind is a thing.
Also, it would be hysterical to move to Tumblr.
I don’t have any particular insights about how to do what at the technical level, so I’ll just comment on preferences:
I’d need to see what “Plain Jane” looks like, but I suspect that I’m pretty passionately ambivalent about the enhanced value of most of the graphics. They may well be an “everybody does this, so we should, too” thing–which might make it a place to cut costs.
I’ve never gotten used to data base archive searching techniques, so I don’t do any. I’m a little surprised about this because I was fairly good, fast, and efficient at old timey print indexes, but internet archive searching is needles in haystacks time for me. I won’t miss the archives if they go.
I don’t know anything about Substack, so I can’t predict what the impact of moving there would be.
Despite long involvement with evangelicals and their marketing-based approaches, I have no feel for how to expand patronage of anything. I think scoring as high at 98% on some indexes measuring introversion probably plays a role. In any event, I can’t help you with that issue other than to note that cold calling seems to yield about 1% results, so you’ll be kissing a lot of frogs, drilling a lot of dry wells, whatever to increase your patronage. I wish you the best, and I, too, will review my Patreon after I finish my move.
ETA: Allow me to second Bluster on not needing to see pictures of Trump. 🙁
As a member of the conservative opposition, I read OTB to inform myself of the viewpoints that differ and why. The pictures do not contribute very much relative to the text remarks. I am used to ignoring ads so if you take that route, fine. I do run an archive of comments I consider special, thus, your archives are less useful to me. OTB is a superior site. I hope it survives and prospers.
@MarkedMan:
QFE.
Substack is also not a terrible idea.
I’ve read OTB for years and I keep reading it because it’s a class act and provides information I appreciate. I like the ranked Patreon idea for support and also can live with limited visuals. I would really miss the back and forth in comments if OTB disappeared.
Still haven’t figured out why I keep getting in the moderation slammer…..
But, if I hadn’t valued OTB over the years as a intelligent discussion site, I’d have been searching for a better one. Haven’t found it yet!
I agree with the suggestion re: graphics, if they can be done by link that’s great.
Agree with a lead post that will lay bare the costs that are being absorbed, by the team and a gentle reminder that the commentariat needs to pitch in.
I rarely use the archives so if that can be isolated I’m (personally) OK with that.
Lastly, my thanks for many enjoyable hours lurking among folks who are clearly more analytical and insightful than myself. I’ve learned much.
I will raise up my patreon.
This community is my sanctuary. Even the people I disagree with most teach me something almost every day.
I haven’t worked in 14 months, but I’d drop MAX, Starz, Showtime, Paramount+ or Hulu before I gave up OTB.
Thank you for putting up with me.
@MarkedMan:
Flame wars aren’t cancel culture.
Criticism isn’t cancel culture.
@Bob@Youngstown:
Me either!
And I also echo what everyone else has said. I dropped my Patreon when my position was eliminated but I’ll figure out how to bring it back to help keep the lights on. This kind of commentariat is increasingly rare (if not unique).
@EddieInCA: Same on feeling like this place is like my “community”. I like most of the people here more than most of the ones I know in real life. I would be lost without OTB.
I’m so grateful I found this site back in 2012. The pieces by James Joyner, Steven Taylor, the late Doug Mataconis, Matt Bernius, and Kingdaddy are always worth a read. And, in addition to the fact that the vast majority of the commenters are literate, sane and well-informed, OTB has gotten me through some very bad times. Thank you all, and it is my devout hope that the site continues to flourish in whatever form.
@SKI: Not sure where this is coming from? Link doesn’t go anywhere @
@Jim:
I wish you’d post more. It would be nice to have more conservatives posting who are honest and principled.
@Jax: Ajax, for what it’s worth, you are an exemplar of why I come here in the first place. First, because you bring a life experience and perspective that I don’t get elsewhere, and second because I’ve come to know enough about you and seen the joys and, more recently, the difficulties you have experienced and I think of you as family, however odd it may be to have family we only know in this fashion. And that goes for the rest of the commentariat here, even the ones I argue with.
As an occasional (at best) commenter, I’ll defer to the committed regulars on next steps for this blog.
I will, however, offer up this hot-take idea: Do a gofundme drive and see how much it generates. I suspect it will be not insignificant.
Use that money to pay for current operating costs. If there is a deficit, let the community know how much, and I suspect many will pitch in again (or for the first time) to make up the difference.
If there is a surplus, save it for a rainy day, ie, the next time a site expense comes up.
Rinse-repeat this process as needed (yearly basis?).
ps, I’ve always wanted to ask something of James and Steven, and this seems like as good a time as any. Do you “count” this blog amongst your academic outputs in your yearly evaluations? I ask because most of the content seems to fall squarely within your academic disciplines. And also because community outreach, dissemination of knowledge, etc are (sometimes) valued in the academy.
@Mimai:
I’ve been wondering about you. I’m happy to know you’re still around, even as a lurker. Hope all is well!
I guess I was unaware there was a Patreon, but I will start kicking in there.
I would second Substack–but I’m not sure how great the comments work on that. I do think John Ganz’s Substack has a good comments section. Way different crowd, but he engages with them, which is the key, and they engage back.
In my opinion, one thing that makes OTB comments work is that the comments do not thread. Relative to the rest of the internet this place is incredibly civil and the comments seem to take time to write. I don’t know how many two word replies are being filtered out. But maybe the reading experience of comments here from beginning to end makes everybody feel required to respond in a coherent fashion rather than getting stuck in some back and forth the rest don’t even see.
I could definitely lose the pictures.
@Mimai:
A good question. I would consider it largely as “service” insofar as it is, as you note, “community outreach” and “dissemination of knowledge” but since for the last eight years my evals have been linked more to admin than academics, I have not listed it.
@Mimai: @Steven L. Taylor: Maybe a better answer is that as a dean I would see this kind of blogging as a legitimate example of service to community within our structure.
I’m an “Emeritus Writer” at OTB (2005-2008) and still lurking. It is a daily gander to see the current topics and some of the interesting discussions. I don’t comment much as I often don’t have time to go back is see any responses. Back before 2012 it was rare that a post had more than a dozen comments because there was not a “commentariat” that today is a great feature of OTB.
These days in political discussions (overall, not OTB) I see too many stovepipes. I see the Progressives and Trump fans as equally blind (cough the 180 on Musk is amusing – and you don’t see that?) and click-bait outrage, plus repeating the latest talking point without checking it – or waiting a day or two as so much has become the outrage of the hour (Orwell’s 5 minute hate?).
I found my 1st guest post about the Jan 2005 Inauguration and hey, it was a first post (and broken formatting codes) https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/inauguration_crowd_control_and_protesters/ I emailed James about my experience in DC and he asked me to make a post of it and sent me a clue sheet of formatting codes (was not WYSIWYG then) and the pictures had to be quite small and uploaded using FTP.
BTW my suggestion for all of the folks commenting here is you can make a difference where you live. If you don’t know your city council member (or county commissioner or judge) you should (OK, Mike Reynolds just moved, he’s excused). I have zero desire to run for local elected office having seen what a thankless job it can be. I’m nice, polite, and I point out successes so I get listened to. I’m on Commissions and Boards and Oversight Committees.
Technical part, times change and the early WordPress of blogging was a PITA. Today blogs are what? (going extinct) so the back end isn’t keeping up. I don’t know. Substack is OK for long essays.
I’ve been here more or less since the beginning, though I don’t comment often. This is a community, and I think what OTB does is worth a lot to most of us. Patreon is not really an option for me, but I can contribute via an easy to see paypal button or gofundme, or what have you as a once time contribution.
I’m here for the text, both OTB content and the comments. Sometimes mainly the comments. The images can go.
I would gladly contribute to a GoFundMe catch-up. I remember having problems with Patreon when I tried to contribute via that route earlier, but I’ll try again.
This is one of the very few places on the internet where I actually enjoy interactions with regulars and routinely learn something new. I am happy to figure out new formats; and I’d be very sad if it went away.
@MarkedMan: My browser somehow replaced my comment on this thread with something it had stored as a log-in for this site when I allowed it to autocomplete my name and email. No idea what thread that was from or how long ago it was.. I tried to delete but, as all my posts go into moderation, it apparently got released as originally submitted. Sorry for the confusion
Been a reader and contributor since around 2007/2008. Like everyone else, enjoy the commentary which serves to expand my horizons and get me out of my bubble. Also marvel a bit at how the commentariat has changed and evolved over the years. Learning about you all and your lives and work even if it just a glimpse of the whole person is just fascinating. Yep, just upped the Patreon level also.
First, what happened to all the Soros money that you’ve been accused of taking James? /s
In all seriousness James, I chuckle whenever I see a commenter suggesting that you moved to the left to monetize the site.
I found OTB in 2007/8 via links from other blogs at the time (probably the Dish). From the start, I really appreciated the blog’s center-right perspective. It’s been a presence through some tumultuous times in my life and I appreciate that during a particularly low time, you gave me the chance to write here. I’m hoping to contribute more after June of this year–I’m still learning how to craft a post in under an hour.
In the meantime, I’ve started to contribute via Patreon. Somehow I totally missed that link prior to yesterday. I’ll also reach out via email with some ideas.
@Steven L. Taylor:
There need to be more Deans like you! I wish everyone valued public scholarship.
I very much appreciate OTB and hope it will continue is some form or fashion. I am sure there are other online journals in a similar situation. Perhaps it’s worth considering an online journal co-op, where several entities could exist under an umbrella of shared resources, in order to reduce overhead, mitigate the site administration and upkeep headaches, and manage to make some spare change. Meanwhile and in any event, I hope you can hang it there!
Steven, I noticed that you added the Patreon nudge to the daily thread. One more suggestion: embed the link rather than directing them to search for it elsewhere on the page.
@Jim: Seconded what EddieInCA said.
Yes, I would understand the reluctance since we’re a bit harsh on the conservative commenters here. But the ones that do comment tend to be snarky rather than constructive. Not always, but often, which may be in response to how they are treated. But in any case, would be happy to have bright people to engage with!
I don’t know the ins and outs of blog business economics, so I will steer clear of that.
But if you want to increase your potential served market I’d suggest a more balanced site. In my opinion both the bloggers and the commenters are more reflective of the far leftists on MSNBC than anything else; and something that will only attract a niche audience, just looking for red meat and group self congratulation. Its an echo chamber. And the one sided intolerance is striking. Why not just watch MSNBC or go to Bulw-shixt? What’s the value add?
I suspect this observation will be totally ignored, as the participants I just cited I am sure consider themselves as mainstream, reasonable, reflective…… And so I’m left with: “perhaps its time you look into the mirror.”
Its an echo chamber.
Apparently you have not been following remarks here by regular commenters ripping each other up one side and down the other on the matter of the war in Gaza.
Jack wants us to look in the mirror and see him.
@Jack:
Amusingly, we would almost certainly get a larger audience and be able to attract more donors if we were a more partisan site. There’s a lot more money in telling people what they want to hear than being middle of the road. Much less routinely declaring that there isn’t a simple answer to a question.
@Jack: I also would love to see wider range of well reasoned positions here. I’m curious though, what’s an example of an underrepresented conservative opinion that you have in mind?
@Jack:
You must have missed all the posts where James is excoriated for taking mainstream center-right viewpoints. Our hosts are pretty mainstream, albeit clear opponents of Trump. They could only be considered “far leftists” from a very far-right perspective.
On the other hand, it’s true that the comment section is pretty far to the left of the median American and the hosts—not to LGM territory, but far enough that I’m considered by some here to be “right-wing” which is probably true from their perspective in a relative sense.
So I would agree in a limited sense that moderate-right or even center-right views are rare here (think the kinds of things one might read at The Dispatch), but I don’t think that is intentional; it’s just how things have evolved over time. And blogs have no obligation to ideological balance. With the comment section, the hosts can’t control who participates and who doesn’t, except for moderation decisions to keep out trolls.
I don’t recall when I discovered this site but I expect it was more than fifteen years ago. I was mostly a lurker until 2022 when I retired, Since then I check in a couple of times a day and occasionally leave a comment. I haven’t been a patron but would on occasion drop in a couple of bucks. I’d hate to lose this blog so I’ll set up a patron account, but for today I’ll slip a couple of sawbucks into the one time kitty.
@Andy:
No doubt that is true, but FWIW I consider you that you tend towards small “c” conservatism, and put myself in that category too.
I like the committed regulars idea, but ultimately I would be happy with a slimmed-down version. And I almost never go through the history, though I should be reading all of the Democracy/Republic posts considering they are so relevant. I love reading your stuff and would miss you.
@Jack: A decent number of the regular commenters, myself included, used to be Republicans. Now, admittedly, it’s been a while, but still–it’s notable. I’m not even sure what “making it a more balanced site” would entail or accomplish. For all of the crowing about the “WalkAway” movement that a handful of my pro-Trump acquaintances keep trying to push, I know far more former Republicans, many of whom are people I used to work with when I worked in (Republican) party politics, or for a (Republican) state senator. Within my own circles, the people who worked in politics and those who study politics have drifted away from the Republican Party.
The idea that a political blog must balance representation is sort of silly, as James notes, the money would be in going all-in and turning it into an echo chamber top to bottom. I still find it interesting that the authors of this site are center-right, while most of the commenters are center-left. And yes, I said center-left. Having lived abroad, I’ve seen what real hard left looks like, and American Democrats don’t come close.
@Jen: I, too, used to be a Republican because I identified myself as a conservative. These days, I feel the same way that others that I have talked to feel: that I didn’t as much leave the GOP/conservatism as they left me. And I’ve also lived places where there are actual left wing parties and movements. Ayup! Most of the people on this forum are pretty center-left and would be happy to move back to center right if they could somehow disassociate from the racism, homophobia, and punching down that goes with identifying as “right” these days.
ETA: While I was in Korea, I was occasionally amused when the Saenuri Party (of Park Geun-hye fame) would stake out positions that were “too liberal” for centrist Democrats in Congress.
I would eliminate the archives unless they are a big help to you when you write. Maybe keep the last year or two.
Steve
@Andy:
Setting aside quibbles about just what the median American believes, this is exactly the dynamic that makes this such a fruitful site. The hosts tend conservative, but sane and well-informed. The commenters tend liberal (with some exceptions), but sane. And they all manage to converse mostly civilly and mostly fact-based, over a substantial span of time. It’s totally unique in my internet experience.
The fascists and bigots are welcome to present their arguments here like anyone else. They just never do. (Sorry Paul L and JKB, what you drop from space doesn’t rise to the level of “argument”.)
@Andy:
It’s funny how that works. I definitely wouldn’t describe you as right wing. Maybe center right, but probably moderate. Even then, IIRC, some of your positions can be described as center-left.
Same with James. James has moved to the left over the years, but that’s what one is supposed to do if they see things differently.
Describing anyone at MSNBC as far left is absurd. When seen here in a comment, that person is just repeating talking points that are designed to distort reality. I’ve seen people like that look at a graph and interpret it as the opposite of what it shows.
FWIW, I totally admit towards being left of center on most issues and far more progressive than James and Steven on others. That said I try to stay pragmatically grounded wherever I can (especially as the left/right scale can break pretty easily… Especially the further you get from well defined social issues).
@DrDaveT:
This is the problem, isn’t it? What is left, center, right anymore? I don’t think there is a consensus of what positions, policies, or politics constitute each component of the body politic.
I tend to think of myself as conservative but that is probably more temperamental than political. I prefer a balanced budget, for example. But I don’t preclude collecting taxes to get there. I prefer a strong defense and think isolationism is the path to decline. But that is not the prevailing conservative thought. I have conservative beliefs on everyday morals and behaviors but don’t believe that using the power of the state to enforce them is the right way to go.
In general, I refuse the right of anyone to pigeonhole me to their categorization of beliefs and behaviors into a political definition.
As Popeye would say, “I yam what I yam”.
@Jen: Similarly, 20 years ago I routinely split my ticket between Ds and Rs – I was simply after the better candidate and didn’t care about the label.
These days, however, I simply cannot vote for anybody with an R by their name. They may not be a racist, but racism is not a deal-breaker for them. Similarly misogyny, rape, insurrection, theft from employees and investors, corruption, etc.
If you have an R by your name in this day and age, you are on-board with Donald Trump and his enablers. That is disqualifying.
I wish it wasn’t so. I want a loyal opposition to keep liberal/leftist ideas in check. I want a different voice/perspective to balance out the national conversation.
OTB is the only place I get that reasonable conservative voice. OTB is the only place I find centrists like me, who have given far more thought to issues than I have – and who are much smarter and better communicators than I am – give voice to ideas that I have had in passing, and help correct me when my ideas don’t stand up to scrutiny.
OTB has value, deep value. I don’t know how to properly monetize it though. I do know that it’s not fair or right to have James and Steven carry the financial burden on top of the administrative one. Perhaps crowdfunding is the best model here.
@Scott:
I have similar positions. Find the posts and commentary thought provoking more often than I find adherence to inane talking points. Appreciate you all
I personally don’t love ads but their presence wouldn’t deter me from visiting.