Sunday’s Forum

James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm veteran. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.


  1. Bill says:
  2. Bill says:
  3. Bill says:
  4. Bill says:
  5. Sleeping Dog says:

    There Baaaaack!!


    They’re the cause of our problems, they’re the ones rioting. Not our local serfs who we’ve heaped abuse upon for decades and have our local security forces assassinate one of them periodically to keep them in line. But it’s them, it’s the outsiders!

    Uh oh, there’s a problem.

    KARE 11 Investigates: Records show arrests so far are mostly in-state
    Arrests through Saturday AM.

    Harrington said the state’s 2,500 public safety personnel deployed on Friday were quickly outnumbered by “tens of thousands” of rioters. Gov. Tim Walz went so far as to say that up to 80% of those arrested in connection with rioting came from out of state. But reports from St. Paul police and Hennepin County jail logs suggested the opposite.

    Meanwhile, Harrington and some elected officials hinted at possible white supremacist involvement. Law enforcement officials scrambled to investigate online ties between known extremist groups and out-of-staters detained in the riots.

    Uh, wrong, see previous link.

    There right wing agitators.

    No, NO, they’re left wing agitators

    Unlike state officials, Barr was unequivocal on who was to blame, claiming that the protests were “planned, organized and driven by anarchic and far-left extremist groups using antifa-like tactics,” referring to anti-fascist groups that have used violence.

    Gee guys, get your story straight.

    Sometime in the early 79’s, the late Art Buchwald wrote a piece purporting to discover where all the outside agitators came from that were rioting on college campuses throughout America. If memory serves me well, he identified a cave in the Berkshires of western Massachusetts.

    Claims that the instigators of the rioting are from elsewhere should be taken with a grain of salt, unless backed up with verifiable evidence. The local, state and Federal politicians commenting on Minnesota have provided none and their statements are contradicted by the best available information, the arrest records.

  6. James Joyner says:

    @Sleeping Dog: I was composing my post on that very subject while you were commenting. I think there’s some evidence of outside agitation but agree it’s likely a side story rather than the main one.

  7. OzarkHillbilly says:

    I feel like the only person in the world who couldn’t give a rat’s ass about a rich man’s plaything.

  8. CSK says:

    Are you speaking in general terms or referring to something/someone specific?

  9. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: Both.

  10. CSK says:

    What’s the specific thing/person?

  11. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: What happened yesterday? America used to do great things as a country. Now we have rich fucks with money to burn do them for us.

  12. Sleeping Dog says:
  13. CSK says:

    @Sleeping Dog:
    A guy I knew who worked for the Mass. State Police once told me that it was virtually impossible (because of the union) to get rid of a bad cop, and the best the state police could do was assign the guy to drive up and down the Mass. Pike, where it was presumed he couldn’t do too much damage.

  14. Monala says:

    Police have been attacking journalists all over the country. Incidents listed in the link.

  15. Monala says:

    Here’s a thread by a researcher about what works to reduce police violence, including rules, accountability, and investment in non-police solutions to community problems such as mental health.

  16. CSK says:

    Are you talking about Elon Musk and SpaceX? If so, rich people have been subsidizing exploration, invention, and art in all forms pretty much forever. Not all of them, of course, but many. What the hell–if they want to spend their money on advancing the cause of human knowledge, I’m not going to object.

  17. Sleeping Dog says:


    Absolutely. In a thread on Friday, I made the prediction that the cops fired in Mpls will be reinstated, including Chauvin, assuming he is acquitted. And frankly I’d bet on acquittal.


    All good ideas and ones that never get implemented because the heavy political lift needed to accomplish reform and make it stick.

    In Mpls it is evident that Mayor Frey and Gov. Walz, butchered the response to this crisis. Frey is likely toast, but will be replaced by a Dem and nothing will change. Walz was pretty much a lock to be reelected, but that is very much in doubt. Because of that reform will only get lip service and if he’s replaced by a Repug, it won’t get that.

  18. DrDaveT says:


    Here’s a thread by a researcher about what works to reduce police violence

    Here’s more on what works. I have not vetted the research behind it yet, but the site seems pretty solid.

  19. Gustopher says:

    Not sure whether to post this in one of the protest/riot threads, but it seems too lighthearted and frivolous.

    In Seattle, they looted the Cheesecake Factory. Video at the link.

  20. CSK says:

    I guess there was no box in which she could carry it. It seems rather surreal to stroll through a riot zone carrying an exposed, so to speak, cheesecake. I’d be concerned someone would grab it or it would be knocked out of my hand.

  21. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Monala: Wait. You’re advocating that the government should do something about mental health problems? Where’re we gonna get the money for that? You can’t keep spending money on things for the population without eventually being forced to realize that taxes are too low. Where do you think that money is going to come from? Rich people? No, no, no. It’s going to be much cheaper in the short run to just keep busting the heads of people of color.

  22. Monala says:

    Today in amusing Twitter threads: someone who most people probably didn’t realize existed, Louis de Bourbon, a descendant of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, took to Twitter to express his displeasure about protesters in Louisville, KY removing the hand from a statue of his famous progenitor.

    He then is thoroughly dragged in a way that only Twitter can do, with people pointing out that like his ancestors, he has no idea how to read a room; noting that at least this time it was only a hand; and reminding him that unlike how he described himself, he is not the heir of Louis XVI since there is no throne to inherit.

  23. CSK says:

    Actually, if there was a throne to inherit, the heir would have been the recently deceased Henri, Count of Paris and Duke of France, head of the House of Orleans. Louis is barking up the wrong family tree.

  24. Bill says:

    Peaceful (for the moment) protestors have closed down I-95 in West Palm Beach or about 10 miles from where I live.

  25. An Interested Party says:

    @Monala: Considering how much injustice is going on these days, perhaps some on that thread have the right idea to bring back one of France’s greatest inventions or even using street lights for alternate purposes

  26. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: I know. But I’m not explaining myself, because it is so gawd damned obvious to me, and I am so gawd damned tired of people worshiping them for doing things they never did because they never could. All they ever did was take the money that other people earned to pay people more talented than them to do what they never could.

    Fuck them cocksuckers.

  27. Gustopher says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: For years I have been saying that if North Korea reached the level of rocketry that Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos have, we would use that as the cause for war, or at least sanctions.

  28. Kathy says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    In Mpls it is evident that Mayor Frey and Gov. Walz, butchered the response to this crisis.

    I’m reminded of what Mike Duncan said about the French king, Charles X, in the 1830 Revolution. I don’t recall exactly, but it was something to the effect that Charles was a day behind events in his response to them.

    In the case of Minneapolis, perhaps if the killer cop had been arrested sooner, this whole chain of events would not have happened. As is, by the time he was arrested, it was already too late.

  29. de stijl says:

    A song I like when things get tough is O-O-H Clind by The Five Stairsteps.

    Gives me hope.

  30. de stijl says:


    On Chauvin, Minneapoilis Mayor and Police Chief responded very quickly and correctly, and quote honorably.

    The problem is that areas of South Minneapolis and North Minneapolis have been over-policed for generations baced on color and the steam cooker blew.