The Angry Face Of The Tea Party
While this happened in November, it really didn’t get widespread play until this week’s discussion of civility in politics:
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Is this really what American politics has come to ?
Is this really what American politics has come to ?
Yes. They will only get worse. Just you watch.
Given that this has come from a Democrat in California, on what basis do you attribute this to the Tea Party?
Patrick, the people yelling in that video were supporters of Nick Popaditch, the Tea Party candidate that Filner just defeated. Popaditch is standing right there, perhaps not really egging them on as O’Donnell suggests, but he’s certainly not raising a calming hand.
I have to say, that guy yelling “Jew” is chilling.
Given that this has come from a Democrat in California, on what basis do you attribute this to the Tea Party?
What are you talking about? Nick Popaditch was the Tea Party supported Republican candidate who, when he lost to Filner, led a psychotic mob to attack the winner of the election.
The Democrat was attacked. The Tea Party did the attacking. They’re violent psychotics.
Any Right Thinking Patriotic American can see that this entire event was staged by the Liberal Democratic Candidate with Hollywood actors in an effort to smear the God Fearing, peace loving, non violent, Tea Party supporters who were miles away and would never, ever act like this.
Yes, all the Tea Partiers were busy picking up the trash after one of their rallies to leave the public space sparkling clean, so they couldn’t have been here…
Shocked, shocked to discover that the Tea Party thrives on rage.
Shocked.
Wow.
Who knew?
I see the usual band of violent psychotic-enabling wingnuts are out in force this morning, attacking Michelle Obama for encouraging tolerance in response to the shooting. They’re really mad about that. Jay Tea, who has taken to visiting here to spread the stupid, goes so far as to claim that tolerance is what caused the murders on the weekend, and anyone who preaches tolerance is evil and really just wants you to die.
That’s the Tea Party for you. Violent rage = good. Tolerance = Evil.
In a recent OTB post (Political Violence Rare…Jan 11, 2011) a citizen is holding a sign “We came unarmed, this time.” In remarks that follow Mr. Joyner states, “The guy with the sign is, almost surely, just some frustrated middle aged man talking tough via a sign who’s of no danger to anyone.”
I would ask Mr. Joyner to view the Filner-Popaditch video and practice his mind reading skills to help us understand the behavior of these frustrated middle aged men.
Thanks for the link, mantis. I hope people actually go and read it, and see that what I was saying was that praising “tolerance” as the takeaway lesson in this case is terribly misguided. The killer wasn’t driven by intolerance, but insanity — and he was enabled by people who “tolerated” his madness instead of reporting him or taking action to get him the help he needed.
Tolerance isn’t the cure for all problems. There are some things that are utterly intolerable. And the dangerous insanity the shooter is way up that list.
J.
> instead of reporting him
I believe he was kicked out of school because he was “reported” so often. Are you unaware of this, or are you simply lying?
This had nothing to do with “tolerance”. It had a lot to do with a broken mental health care system that is broken. The right is hard at work trying to put it to sleep outright.
I believe he was kicked out of school because he was “reported” so often. Are you unaware of this, or are you simply lying?
Yup, good of them to pass the problem on to the general public. Out of sight, out of mind. Just do your shooting off-campus, please. How’d that work out again?
Whether or not Arizona’s mental health system could have helped or not is irrelevant — no one ever gave it a chance. Because no one spoke up.
So, anjin…what’s your story? Stupid, frothing political hack, or both?
J.
The killer wasn’t driven by intolerance, but insanity — and he was enabled by people who “tolerated” his madness instead of reporting him or taking action to get him the help he needed.
Tolerance isn’t the cure for all problems.
First of all, the First Lady never claimed that the killer was driven by intolerance (though I don’t think anyone can argue he is at least intolerant of something, even if it’s based in insanity). She also never claimed that tolerance is the cure for all problems, merely that it is an important lesson to teach children who may not understand what all of this is about. Allow me to excerpt:
To any rational person these are entirely unobjectionable lessons for children. Your disturbed brain interprets it as an evil lesson designed to make children into dependent victims and enable killers.
The only reason to use the Tucson shooting as a lesson in ‘tolerance” is if you WANT to raise a generation of children inculcated to be dependent on others, to be a generation of ready-made victims who never grow up and learn to stand on their own. And that is a form of evil that dwarfs the shootings in Arizona.
Earlier in the piece, you even recognize this:
There’s tolerance, and then there’s turning a blind eye to evil.
But you go ahead and claim that Obama’s message is not one of tolerance, but of turning a blind eye to evil, and therefore she is purveyor of evil. You’re one sick, twisted little shit, you know that? I think I need to “speak up, to get involved,” as you advise, and call you out on your obviously disturbed and possibly violent mind. I believe you are unstable, and liable to act in violent ways. Please provide your full name and address so I can alert the authorities.
Want to see Jay’s head explode? Ask him what he would cut to balance the budget. Last time he answered the Department of Education.
And he was serious.
Then, when confronted by reality he scampered off and refused to play.
Let’s try the same thing here.
JAY: How would you solve the problem of reporting, diagnosing, treating and presumably detaining mentally ill people.
Please phrase your answer in a way that does not involve reliance on “socialized medicine.”
michael, don’t confuse me with Obama. I don’t claim to have all the solutions to all the world’s problems. I never said that getting rid of the DofEd would fix everything, but it would be a good start — on both a practical and philosophical front.
And as has been noted many times, Arizona has a system for dealing with potentially dangerous people. But it depends on complaints triggering it, including law enforcement. But no one gave it a try. I’m especially curious to hear why Sheriff Dupnik never took any action despite the numerous contacts his department had with the shooter.
It’s like illegal immigration, in a way. We have systems and laws on the books, but they don’t bother to be enforced. That’s hateful and discriminatory and mean and whatnot.
But hey, let’s preach tolerance to our kids, and everything will be just fine. That funny uncle who wants to touch you in your special place? He just needs understanding. Don’t judge him.
J.
But hey, let’s preach tolerance to our kids, and everything will be just fine. That funny uncle who wants to touch you in your special place? He just needs understanding. Don’t judge him.
The fact that you think this was the message shows how disturbed your mind is, or that you’re just a lying shitstain whose only purpose in life is to drag everyone down to his level. Your pick.
Still waiting on that contact info so I can report you to the authorities….
> Yup, good of them to pass the problem on to the general public. Out of sight, out of mind. Just do your shooting off-campus, please. How’d that work out again?
> So, anjin…what’s your story? Stupid, frothing political hack, or both?
Have you ever dealt with this kind of problem? I have a member of my immediate family who is paranoid schizophrenic, so I think it is just possible that I know a little more about the issue than you do. I am the one who listens to his mother crying her eyes out. We are the ones who have struggled for years to keep him alive. To keep him off the street. To keep him from hurting himself. To keep him from hurting someone else. Who have spent our retirement savings on his care.
So now you know a little more about “my story”
Got any more smart ass quips you want to make? Go fuvk yourself Jay. Really.
You got my e-mail, mantis. You got my blog. Hell, you probably have most of my full name, city and state of residence, so what’s holding you back?
Don’t forget to add how I’ve also repeatedly stated that I own no guns, never have, and have never even gotten a moving violation, let alone ANY kind of criminal record… but a letter of thanks from the Manchester Chief of Police. Let’s get the “threat” I pose in full context.
What’s the penalty for filing false criminal reports in your jurisdiction, mantis?
J.
Just be sure to keep that relative away from any Sarah Palin statements, anjin. That’s apparently the most dangerous thing you can do.
J.
What a good leader tea partier you are, jay: glorify ignorance and attack tolerance. Perfect.
Isn’t there a child’s version of OTB for you?
> Just be sure to keep that relative away from any Sarah Palin statements, anjin. That’s apparently the most dangerous thing you can do.
And here we see the sum total of compassion that the American right has to offer.
You can’t just man up and admit that you have just been a total prick, can you Jay? Of course not. Because to do that, you would have to first of all, be a man.
What a sad, sad excuse for a human being you are.
A few of my relatives are on the way to the mental hospital for a visit as we speak. I will be sure to share your kind words with them.
michael, I thought that was something you carried around with you, kind of like that portable “gun-free zone” that some idiot Congresscritter is proposing for federal officials.
J.
anjin, I use a mirror as my model for tones. You started out hostile and sneering, so I gave you that back. Then you got all self-righteous. At that point, I could either apologize, or stand by my guns.
I know that an apology would be taken as a sign of weakness, and encourage more attacks.
Further, based on past encounters, I don’t put absolute faith in your word on much of anything — especially that which I can’t verify, and wouldn’t want to — it would intrude on your privacy, even though you seem to waive it here.
So yeah, I kept up being a prick to someone who’s been a consistent prick to me. Had I shown sympathy, would that have changed your attitude and demeanor towards me?
If you’re honest, you’ll admit it wouldn’t have.
I save my sympathy for people who are… well, sympathetic. And who I can trust not to spit in my face.
J.
Finally, anjin… I don’t speak for the sum total of the political right. I speak for myself, period. Others can agree with me if they like, or not. I’m responsible for no one else, and no one else is responsible for me. I speak for a minority of one.
J.
> Yup, good of them to pass the problem on to the general public.
And here we see some of the root ignorance of the American right. I have spent about 75K on housing and care for my sick relative over the last 5 years. A lot of hard working Americans simply don’t have that kind of money to spend on care.
And then there is the issue that that amount was simply not enough. Even spending a chunk of our retirement savings was not enough to get the job done.
I wonder if the right is aware that the evil, socialized “government health care” is all that is standing between them, their families, and thousands of very sick, very dangerous individuals like the Arizona shooter. Probably not, figuring that out would require a little too much though.
Jay, spare me your spin control. It’s just a little too late to walk it back. Like I said, go fvck yourself.
You’ve revealed a little more about who you are than probably wished to. That is why thinking before you speak is a good policy.
What spin, anjin? I said it. If you like, I’ll say it again. Give me an address, and I’ll print it out and sign it and send it to you.
I’m no Kos, or Charles Johnson, or any of the other cowards of the left. I don’t go back and erase or deny my words. I own them. I might be ashamed of some of them, but I always own them.
J.
But I won’t do any of those things today. I got a day job to get to.
J.
One of the things we should pay attention to in light of the recent tragedy is that, as we speak, mental hospitals all over America are releasing patients who desperately need care because of budget cuts.
Some, perhaps most of them ARE a danger to themselves and others. Doctors and staff are agonizing over decisions such as “which patient is less likely to hurt someone if we are forced to release him/her?”
This is happening as we speak, and it is almost certainly going on in your own community.
> Further, based on past encounters, I don’t put absolute faith in your word on much of anything
Please share something (anything) I have ever said that would lead anyone to conclude that I am a liar on any level. Keep in mind that you are implying that I may be lying about a family tragedy that appears to be completely beyond your ability to comprehend.
What’s the penalty for filing false criminal reports in your jurisdiction, mantis?
Hey, I just want the authorities to be aware of a possibly unstable individual, exactly as you suggest I should do. I’m taking your advice, and now you’re criticizing me for it?
One thing you can always be sure of from wingnuts like Jay. Their advice, prescriptions, and suggestions are always disingenuous, as they are only a platform from which to attack their ideological opponents. They believe in nothing but battle, of words and, if those insufficiently sate their bloodlust, weapons.
Jay doesn’t have any guns though, as he’ll tell you (and that’s a good thing). He’s confident that his wingnut brethren will kill those he disagrees with for him.
@JayTea:
“Arizona has a system for dealing with potentially dangerous people. But it depends on complaints triggering it, including law enforcement.”
Potentially dangerous people? What’s potentially dangerous people? Were not talking dangerous people, no, it’s people who might potentially be dangerous.
If a relative or a friend is talking about “second amendment remedies”, wanting to water the tree of liberty and all that, wouldn’t that make him potentially dangerous? Should that person be reported? You know, most people won’t be able to diagnose actual mental illness, or if a person is just talking.
If people actually did something to actually make this happen, you would at once start shouting about police state, stasi, insane panels, etc.
> Whether or not Arizona’s mental health system could have helped or not is irrelevant — no one ever gave it a chance. Because no one spoke up.
This is simply not true. As we have discussed, there were multiple complaints about his behavior at school. People “spoke up” and action was taken. The school’s dean and security force had to be aware of the situation. I believe this was a community college. Public officials were aware of the problem. At some point, there was a breakdown. The young man in question was no properly evaluated, both in terms of his own treatment and care needs and the threat he might represent to the public.
This happens every day, all over the country. The mental health system is broken. There are violent tragedies involving the mentally ill every day. This one happened to become national news because a member of congress was involved.
> Yup, good of them to pass the problem on to the general public.
Is there a reasonable alternative? If so, let’s hear it. How do we deal with mentally ill people who may pose a danger to themselves and others without drawing on public resources and the political will of the general public to actually address the problem? What is the tea party answer to this problem?
Anjin — If people can’t pay for their own treatment, then it’s irresponsible of them to have psychotic breaks in the first place Didn’t you learn anything from the Tea Party Guide to Healthcare?
You people are nuts….
One side pretends that the gov’t is the reason why everything is all f*cked up, and the other side pretends they can change their minds….
> > Yup, good of them to pass the problem on to the general public.
Let’s take a moment to examine the logical fallacy here, because it is a whopper.
What could have happened differently to prevent Jared Loughner from committing this horrible crime? We know, despite Jay’s claim to the contrary, that people at the college he attended did speak up about his behavior and their related concerns. http://www.azcentral reports:
>The college said he couldn’t come back until he got a mental-health clearance and proved he wasn’t a danger to himself and others.
So Loughner was on the radar as a potentially dangerous person at a public college. Let’s now suppose that the system had worked better an the matter had escalated at this point, which apparently it did not. Perhaps the police could have been called in, or county mental health officials. What would happen next? I do not know Arizona law, but in California police, doctors and mental health officials can put a citizen on a 72 hour psych eval (5150). They are forcibly taken to a county psych ward to be evaluated by professionals. If they present a clear threat to themselves or others, the hold can be extended, or the county can petition to have the patient conserved.
The case is presented to a judge, who can order patient to undergo Involuntary commitment. The patient is entitled to legal counsel, and they can challenge the proceedings. These cases are generally pretty clear cut. If someone is in court undergoing a conservation hearing, they probably have a long history of run-ins with the police, a number of psych holds and so on. They are probably so ill that it is obvious to people in the courtroom that they are in a bad way.
If a person is committed, they completely lose their freedom. They are locked up, and lose all control of their lives. They are forced to take drugs they don’t want. They are physically restrained. Naturally, before the weight of government is brought down upon an individual in this way, a public hearing must be held.
How can the public not be involved? How can this not be a public issue? How can anything other that the public interest be powerful enough to take someone’s freedom away in this manner? And if they conserved, and must be Institutionalized, how can this be done except with public funding?
How can this problem possibly be dealt with EXCEPT by passing it along to the public? It can’t. What could have been done with Loughner to prevent this tragedy WITHOUT public involvement?
Seriously, what is the tea party solution for this sort of problem with our mental health system?Let’s hear it. Something serious please. If you are going to say the system in place in Arizona should have dealt with Loughner before this happened, please be prepared to talk about Arizona law and give a realistic assessment of the available resources for mental health care in the Tucson area. Anything else is cheap grandstanding in an attempt to exploit a tragedy for political gain…
> Further, based on past encounters, I don’t put absolute faith in your word on much of anything
Still waiting Jay. Please share even a single thing I have ever said that would cause a reasonable person to doubt my word. After all, you are accusing me, albiet in a chickenshit way, of lying about a life – threatening illness in a family member and the heartbreak it has caused.
Kindly put up or shut up.
Guess Jay is still tied up at his day job…
>Charles Johnson
>”left-wing”
A good day for mankind, this.
Hmmm. Another Rant ‘n Run from Jay. That’s something you don’t see… well more that 5 or 6 times a week.