At Least 14 Dead, 14 Wounded In Mass Shooting In San Bernardino, California, Multiple Shooters Reported

Multiple victims, and possibly multiple shooters, reported in San Bernardino, California.

San Bernadino Shooting Aerial

Up to twenty people are reported to have been shot, with reports of as many as twelve dead, in an apparent mass shooting in San Bernardino, California, with several reports now indicating that more than one shooter may be involved:

Up to 20 people were shot Wednesday at a social services office in San Bernardino, and officials said they were looking for one or more “active shooters.”

The San Bernardino Fire Department said the shooting took place on the 1300 block of Waterman Avenue, near Orange Show Road.

Sgt. Vicki Cervantes, a spokeswoman for the San Bernardino Police Department, told reporters at the scene up to three shooters were reported inside the Inland Regional Center. Officers have not secured the building and going door-to-door.

The suspects, she said, are heavily armed and were possibly wearing body armor.

“It’s a very active scene,” Cervantes said. “It’s very fluid.”

Television news footage showed police officers and firefighters staging at the scene as well as some people being escorted out of the area.

Officials sais they got a call about the shooting at about 11 a.m.

One man whose his wife worked in the building told KABC-TV that at least gunman walked into the center at began open fire. She was able to lock herself in her office.

“They saw bodies on the floor,” he said.

The Inland Regional Center provides services to disabled people and others in need.

The organization’s website states: “Inland Regional Center was built on the foundation of three core values – independence, inclusion, and empowerment. In following these core values, we hope to help provide each individual with a service system that helps identify and eliminate barriers for individuals with developmental disabilities and their families so they can closely live a typical lifestyle.”

By the time the news had made it to the national news, the reports of nearly two dozen fatalities and multiple shooters were already floating across the Internet, and while it is always worthwhile to remember that these initial reports can turn out to be incorrect in situations like this, both of these reports would seen to be correct based on the most recent information from local news agencies:

There have been reports of multiple shooters in the early stages of mass shooting situations in the past, most notably in the shooting at the Washington Navy Yard several years ago, and they have all turned out to be untrue and usually based on mistaken eyewitness reports. That may be the case here as well, but the number of reports that have been coming through just in these initial stages of three apparently white men armed with what are described as “long guns,” which sounds like shotguns, and possibly wearing body armor has been so large that it’s hard to discount that possibility at this point. If true, it would suggest that this situation is not the typical mass shooting situation which typically involves a lone shooter, and often someone who has a grudge against the entity being targeted or someone located there, such as a disgruntled employee situation. If there really are multiple shooters involved, then we could be looking at something far different.

What’s unclear at this point is what the motive could possible be for something like this. By all accounts, the facility that is the site of the attack is a county center that deals primarily with developmentally disabled children and adults and that there are “several hundred” people who work there or use the facility on a daily basis. Whether this means that there are children and others on the premises on the a regular basis is unclear at this point, but that certainly is what the descriptions make the facility sound like.

Based on what is being shown on television coverage, it doesn’t appear that there is an active shooter situation at the facility itself, however there are several reports that the shooter(s) were seen leaving the scene in a black SUV and there is an active lookout in the area. The Los Angeles Times is also reporting multiple shooters who may have escaped:

As is CNN:

And the local Fox affiliate:

And ABC News:

Again, this is an atypical situation for mass shootings in the United States if it turns out to be true.

Update: It is now being reported that the shooting may have occurred at a conference center adjacent to the main facility where some kind of event for county employees may have been taking place:

The reports of multiple shooters has now, seemingly, been confirmed by police spokesmen. It’s worth noting, though, that this may be largely based on reports from eyewitness reports which could be mistaken. Update #2:  Law enforcement has just concluded their first real press briefing on this incident. It appears to be confirmed that there are at least 14 people dead, and at least 14 wounded, that there were up to three shooters involved, and that the shooting occurred in an area of the facility where some kind of reception was being held for county employees, perhaps an early holiday party. There is apparently no description for any suspects other than the fact that the were “dressed and equipped” in a way to indicate that they were prepared, indicating some level of planning. There’s no indication of motive, identity, or where these men who are apparently at large may be at this point in time. Reports indicate that wide areas of the surrounding San Bernardino area, including public buildings and up to seventy public schools are under lockdown at this time given the fact that the suspects are at large. In response to the inevitable questions given the fact that multiple shooters seem to be involved, the police spokesperson put it this way:

Based on confirmation of casualties from law enforcement, I’ve changed the post title.

Update #3 (9:00pm Eastern): Several developments over the past few hours, including a gun battle with police that has apparently left two people dead, and a possible identity of someone connected with this incident, who may or may not be connected to the shootings:

The fact that one of the people who may be involved has an Arabic name will, quite obviously, lead to questions about possible international terrorism, or at least an incident that may have been inspired by international terrorism, but that has not been confirmed. Indeed, it’s also worth noting the initial theory that was being floated just hours ago, which is that this all started with someone who was at the gathering where the shooting took place who left after an argument and returned with others at which point the shooting began. Given the fact that the entire incident seems to have been fairly well-planned that theory doesn’t really make sense right now, but given that we’re still in the early hours of this investigation it’s a theory worth keeping in mind.

FILED UNDER: Crime, Law and the Courts
Doug Mataconis
About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May 2010. Before joining OTB, he wrote at Below The BeltwayThe Liberty Papers, and United Liberty Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. Paul Hooson says:

    Multiple shooters is very strange compared to lone mental case shootings. Organization of this type with multiple assassins sends up some serious red flags.

  2. Mikey says:

    @Paul Hooson: I would not take any report of multiple shooters as valid until it is firmly confirmed.

    I’m listening to video on KTLA and they have a man on the phone whose daughter works for San Bernardino County and he says she called and said it wasn’t the developmental center that was targeted, but a county employee holiday party and ceremony. She was able to hide in the ladies’ bathroom and is safe.

  3. Ron Beasley says:

    Reports are just coming in there is an additional incident in Pasadena perhaps involving the same black Yukon.

  4. Local news just reported on Twitter that police say the Pasadena incident is not related

  5. Neil Hudelson says:

    @Ron Beasley:

    It’s been a year or so since I was in the area, but that’s a hell of a drive, is it not?

  6. CSK says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    About fifty miles, I think. I could be wrong. Reports are conflicting as to whether this is related to San Bernardino.

  7. James Pearce says:

    This blows my theory that mass shooters in the United States are unable to flee the scene.

    Also interesting that there are reports of multiple shooters but (so far) no reports of any of them shouting an all-too-familiar phrase. Weird…

  8. SKI says:

    The group in the conference center (that seems to be the target) has been identified as county workers. Which, while less horrifying than Inland Regional itself, is still pretty horrifying.

    Adding link: http://www.latimes.com/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html#85210835

  9. C. Clavin says:

    If only all those disabled folks had been packing…they could have stopped those guys in their tracks.

  10. CSK says:

    It seems that the Pasadena suspect is in custody, though no other information has been released.

  11. Ebenezer_Arvigenius says:

    If only all those disabled folks had been packing…they could have stopped those guys in their tracks.

    Oh for f*** sake. Do you really think this the best moment for unwarranted petty spite? You could at least wait until someone relevant actually says something idiotic before indulging your partisan reflexes.

  12. OzarkHillbilly says:

    I am tired, so very tired.

  13. Matt says:

    @Mikey: Yeah they seem to be targeting government workers.

    My guess are white males who probably have a beef with big guberment…

  14. Tony W says:

    @Ebenezer_Arvigenius: Gun control does not have to be a partisan reflex. Great minds could come together from both sides of the aisle and work together to protect America from idiots with guns. Despite the rhetoric, this is not a left/right issue.

  15. MikeSJ says:

    Militia types? Gang members? Jihadists?

    I get how an individual suffering from mental illness could commit such a crime but if this turns out to actually be a case of multiple shooters then that is mind boggling.

    I’d also be surprised if the shooters turn out to be Jihadists simply because the target doesn’t seem to fit with their M.O. It’s not public enough. A mall or crowded public venue seems more their style.

    At this point Militia types would be my guess if the multiple shooter reports turn out to be accurate.

  16. Lit3Bolt says:

    The American variation of the Chinese curse “May you live in interesting times.” is “May you live in a country with lax gun laws.”

    So, 3 shooters with good guns, an escape plan in an SUV, tactical gear and their choice of target suggest that they are home grown crazy anti-government radicals. These guys seem to have a decent amount of money and ability to plan and a good measure on police response time considering that they are still at large.

    But let’s not wonder why these probably white, probably arch-conservative anti-government radicals exist, who they listen to or where they get the idea to kill certain people. That would be politically incorrect. The correct course of action is to simply wait patiently for the next massacre. That’s the American Way.

  17. Pch101 says:

    If it’s in the name of baby parts, Jesus, etc., then only these few guys are responsible. If it’s in the name of Allah, then 1.5 billion people are responsible. (This is how things work these days, right?)

  18. CSK says:

    The NBC Twitter feed says that the police are engaged in a gun fight with the suspects now. One of the suspects and one police officer may be down. The SUV may be booby-trapped.

  19. Lit3Bolt says:

    @Ebenezer_Arvigenius:

    This isn’t spite.

    We’re BITTER. We’re so goddamn bitter and sad and angry that this is normal. The NRA has helped make this the New Normal in America. It didn’t have to be.

    On reducing gun violence, government is indeed the solution. Wishing that people won’t use their guns in an unsafe manner is like hoping that they won’t get drunk and drive into trees. At least with seatbelts and car safety regulation and the use of positive social pressure we can reduce that death toll. No luck with guns though, because somehow it’s turned into this sacred Third Rail that cannot be touched, even by seemingly rational people. The rest of the world laughs at us. There’s so many shootings now citizens are becoming “veterans” by having the misfortune of being present at different sites.

    We are going to have to put metal detectors and man traps in every god damn building in this country just to cut down on the casualties. And just pray the insane and violent get the mental help they need before they walk into any gun store so they can “defend” themselves.

    Get ready for another post by Doug gloating about libs being mad about guns in 3, 2, 1…

  20. Ben Wolf says:

    @MikeSJ: Nothing says people with mental illness can’t cooperate. If they couldn’t the paranoid wouldn’t form militias.

  21. anjin-san says:

    @Lit3Bolt:

    And just pray the insane and violent get the mental help they need

    Have you ever interacted with our mental health system. You had better pray, because you don’t have much hope of help from that quarter. To say the system is broken is a vast understatement.

  22. David M says:

    Seems pretty obvious the answer is to weaken gun control laws, as long as it’s OK with the NRA. It worked so well after Sandy Hook.

  23. MikeSJ says:

    I see the police shot it out with the suspects – all three of them – and this is over. I hope at least one survived in order to get the facts on what this is about.

    That three men got together and opened fire on strangers at an office party is hard for me to fathom.

  24. C. Clavin says:

    @Ebenezer_Arvigenius:
    It’s not my fault violence and domestic terrorism has become partisan.
    I’m just snarling the standard line from the gun cult.
    And I’m not sure anything is more relevant.
    We have had more mass shootings than days this year.
    Sorry your sensibilities are insulted by that.

  25. C. Clavin says:

    @C. Clavin:
    Snarking…not snarling.
    Well yeah…snarling too.
    This shit is not happening anywhere else but here…thanks to the NRA and their dupes.

  26. MikeSJ says:

    Wrote too soon; still more violence to come. Apparently there’s one last hold out, hopefully no one else gets hurt.

    Funding, weapons, accomplices, who or what influenced them. I hope this gets examined thoroughly and it would be nice if something comes of it. I’m not going to hold my breath. Since I’m not a child I expect nothing in terms of laws or gun access will change in the slightest.

    Other than more surveillance of regular citizens. That’s going to be going up up up.

  27. CSK says:

    Two of the suspects are dead; one is apparently holed up in a house nearby.

    I wouldn’t make any judgment about who the shooters are/were, or why they did what they did until more facts are available.

  28. stonetools says:

    Another day, another mass shooting-351 so far in the 331 days of the year. Doubtlessly , the gun rights nuts will be busy saying the main problem is mental illness (although there is no indication whatsoever that the shooters here were mentally ill).
    If you ask me, the crazy people are the gun rights people who have allowed a society where anybody with issues can instantly buy assault rifles (or whatever the f$%k the gun nuts are calling them these days)with a minimalist background check ( or no check at all if you go the private sale route) and then buy unlimited ammunition and body armor over the Internet.
    Thanks to an idiotic Supreme Court, libertarians like Doug and the rest of the gun nuts, we have finally arrived at libertarian utopia–a wealthy version of Somalia. Well done, gun nuts and their enablers-well done. But you have a lot of blood on your hands.
    BTW, I hear Paul Ryan had a moment of silence for the victims today. If I was one of the wounded survivors, , I’d tell Ryan to take his moment of silence and stick it up his a$$ sideways.

  29. bill says:

    @stonetools: that’s still 90 less than chicago (yes, one city….and mainly blacks killing each other)- so what’s your point? crazy people are allowed to live among us until they do bad things, that’s how f’kd up our country is.
    and this happened in cali, where the gun grabbers reign but nobody ever mentions that there’s more guns in cali than any other state. so i guess the controls aren’t working as planned?
    ok, discuss!

  30. CSK says:

    A male and a female suspect are dead. A third male has been detained.

  31. stonetools says:

    Here’s some irony for you:

    On Wednesday morning, a group of doctors in white coats arrived on Capitol Hill to deliver a petition to Congress. Signed by more than 2,000 physicians around the country, it pleads with lawmakers to lift a restriction that for nearly two decades has essentially blocked the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from conducting research on gun violence.

    Joined by a handful of Democratic lawmakers, the doctors spoke about the need to view gun violence as a public health epidemic and research ways to solve it – as the country would with any disease causing the deaths of thousands of Americans each year.

    “It is disappointing that we have made little progress over the past 20 years in finding solutions to gun violence,” said Nina Agrawal, a New York physician and member of the advocacy group Doctors for America, according to the group’s Twitter feed.

    What kind of effed up country is this that a bunch of gun obsessed folks with tiny d!cks and tinier brains can prevent scientific study of an epidemic of violence that has killed more Americans since 2000 than died fighting for the US in World war 2?

    Neil de Grasse Tyson’s Twitter feed:

    Neil deGrasse Tyson ‏@neiltyson Nov 9
    3,400: Americans who died by Terrorism since 2001

    3,400: Americans who died by household Firearms since five weeks ago.
    50,541 retweets 46,867 likes
    Reply Retweet 51K
    Like 47K
    More
    Neil deGrasse Tyson ‏@neiltyson Nov 9
    400,000: Americans who died fighting in World War II.

    400,000: Americans who died by household Firearms since 2001
    26,711 retweets 24,961 likes
    Reply Retweet 27K
    Like 25K
    More
    Neil deGrasse Tyson ‏@neiltyson Nov 9
    1.4 Million: Americans who died in all Wars fought since 1776.

    1.4 Million: Americans who died via household Guns since 1968
    34,920 retweets 31,563 likes

    Read them and weep. And add 14 more to the count.

  32. michael reynolds says:

    NBC says one of the shooters was named Syeed Farook.

  33. @michael reynolds:

    And that another was his bother as I just posted in an update.

    No word on who the woman involved may be.

  34. michael reynolds says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Weird choice of target. Weird as well that it wasn’t a one-way ticket. This sounds like mixed motives.

    But if this is some ISIS-inspired thing, add that to what happened to the Russians today, and fecal matter is about to hit fan.

  35. @michael reynolds:

    For all we know, one of these guys worked there and this really was rooted in a workplace thing.

    Another point someone mentioned earlier on CNN that I can’t say is true is that the building where the meeting was being held is the only one on the facility campus that doesn’t require a security check-in. So, target of opportunity?

  36. Mikey says:

    @michael reynolds: The choice of target–at least from what we know at the moment–makes zero sense for an ISIS thing. There are plenty of shopping centers in the area, for example, which would be heavily trafficked by Christmas shoppers. Why attack a county employee event in some random office building?

  37. Lit3Bolt says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    I apologize for assuming these were white anti-government fanatics.

    The good thing is because they’re BROWN anti-government fanatics is we might actually get a policy response to an event of domestic terrorism. Weird how the world works that way, isn’t it?

  38. ElizaJane says:

    The fact that one of the people who may be involved has an Arabic name will, quite obviously, lead to questions about possible international terrorism

    Is it really an Arabic name? Most of the people on LinkedIn with that name are in India. The ones in Saudi Arabia are all construction engineers who could be there from India. It sounds a lot more Indian than Arab.

    Not that this will matter to the people who are terrified of immigrants — to them it will sound completely Syrian.

  39. michael reynolds says:

    @Doug Mataconis: @Mikey:

    And why San Bernardino for Christ’s sake? Hollywood’s an hour away. If you want to shoot something up you do Rodeo Drive. No one even knows San Bernardino isn’t Bakersfield. Even Californian’s forget it’s there.

  40. Mikey says:

    Syed Farook was an employee of San Bernardino County. Can’t link from mobile but a search of the county website has his name on dozens of documents.

  41. JKB says:

    @michael reynolds:

    The Hollywood types must have paid their Jizya.

  42. CSK says:

    @michael reynolds:

    Farook and his brother lived in Redlands, close by.

    It’s hard to believe that this was a spur-of-the-moment crime, given that the suspects were dressed in what’s been variously described as “assault uniforms” and “body armor.” And they carried assault rifles as well as handguns. There was clearly some planning and preparation that went into this.

  43. Rafer Janders says:

    @ElizaJane:

    Is it really an Arabic name? Most of the people on LinkedIn with that name are in India. The ones in Saudi Arabia are all construction engineers who could be there from India. It sounds a lot more Indian than Arab.

    Yes, it’s much more a name that someone with family roots in India, Pakistan or Bangladesh would have than someone from the Middle East.

  44. CSK says:

    @Rafer Janders:

    Well, there was King Farouk of Egypt. And “Syed,” according to Wikipedia, denotes a male descendant of Mohammed. In India, the equivalent would be “Amir.”

  45. CB says:

    https://t.co/GVLTfi4MSj

    I could see these jackwagons taking credit for it just for the confusion factor alone, but regardless, not good.

    Fecal matter indeed.

  46. Guarneri says:

    @anjin-san:

    I have, with three family members, and my experience is completely different than what you intimate.

  47. An Interested Party says:
  48. michael reynolds says:

    This thing just keeps getting stranger.

    I’m going with wanna-be jihadist who lost his sh-t prematurely over a workplace thing.

  49. CB says:

    @michael reynolds:

    That’s where my money is too.

  50. anjin-san says:

    @Guarneri:

    Really? Never had to cops refuse to take a mentally ill person who desperately needs treatment to psych? Never had psych kick someone who desperately needs treatment after 72 hours, only to watch the whole cycle start again? Never had someone in the county system tell you they just don’t have the funding to hire enough case workers? Never had a relative who is conserved walk because the attorney who was representing the county was a joke? Never had the director of a group home tell you everything was going great when in fact your relative was back on meth?

    This is a very partial list of our experiences, and we live in a high wealth area. I can’t imagine what it’s like elsewhere. I can say that when we’ve attended support groups it seems like pretty much everyone has similar stories. I would love to visit this fully funded, adequately staffed wonderland of yours where the laws actually make sense.

  51. Pch101 says:

    Judging from the name, the suspect is probably of Pakistani or Indian Muslim descent.

  52. anjin-san says:

    @Mikey:

    I agree, there are so many high profile targets in the LA area that it would make no sense for ISIS or Al Qaeda to pick this spot for an attack.

  53. anjin-san says:

    Sean Hannity seems to really, really want this to be a terrorist attack…

  54. Matt says:

    @Lit3Bolt: Uh buddy this is not something that is new. Violence has plagued the nation since before it’s founding. The first school shooting occurred before this was even a country.

    The difference is today you can read about a farmer farting in the backwoods of Kentucky where as +20 years ago such information wasn’t available. Every little act of violence gets played all over the 24/7 new stations and social media live in color for all to see. What’s interesting is that the actual number of these acts have declined over the last 30 years. Overall violence is lower than it’s been in +40 years. People don’t realize that because once again every little thing gets reported on now.

  55. Guarneri says:

    @anjin-san:

    No, I haven’t. But I’d note you cite a cop and other government workers in your recitation. Heh.

    But my real point is that you painted with a broad brush with faux certainty. My experiences have been totally different. I’m not questioning yours. But hell, you can’t even look at 3-4 sporting events without seeing a wide range of proficiency in gd officiating…..

  56. JKB says:

    Interesting development, CAIR is giving a press conference ahead of the late night update from investigators. They had a family member who was just relating family’s surprise and concern.

    Female has been identified as being from Qatar.

  57. Tillman says:

    @Matt: I wouldn’t conflate all crime with mass shootings. Crime in general has trended downward; mass shootings (defined as four or more people, shooter included, injured or killed by a firearm) have trended upwards within the last decade. (Note how old those links are.) In fact, part of the reason mass shootings create such media attention is because crime in general is lower.

    Your point that the media sensationalizes such things is a good one, but is not a sole driving factor.

  58. Guarneri says:

    @michael reynolds:

    Not sure it’s that weird. Workplace and “terrorist” activities not necessarily mutually exclusive. The act is terrorist. The target is workplace.

    In the latest, CAIR is jumping on it. Either very good PR apparatus, or feeling a need to get out ahead of the terrorist angle.

  59. anjin-san says:

    @Guarneri:

    Well, I would be curious to hear about your experiences, though I certainly understand if you don’t wish to discuss it in this forum.

    My first question would be did the better experiences you mention come via private care? Because that is something that is beyond the means of most Americans. We’ve spent over 100k on care, which is more than most folks can afford, and it has not been nearly enough, so we also rely on the health care system, which is simply not up to the task.

  60. Guarneri says:

    @anjin-san:

    It’s mixed, a-s. A bipolar, and two with addictive issues. Also, two private and one public. Public care wasn’t on par with private, but not an unmitigated disaster. Basically public was slow, bureaucratic and the players were, to coin a phrase, the JV team. I’m sorry to hear you’ve had such poor experience, but I have to ask, what does that tell you about public health care? That snark about turning health care into the DMV snark isn’t just snark.

    Just another anecdote. Was at the IL Tollway authority the other day to take care of some transponder issues. 9 manned stations. Only 4 taking “customers.” The others had closed signs. Yet the people just sat there behind their closed signs. Getting paid I suspect. After about 35 minutes of waiting in line I got service and the whole deal took about 4 minutes. The guy I worked with was a fine fellow. And that’s the real problem. It’s not that the people are bad guys. It’s that the system’s architecture is not designed for efficiency or service. I should have been in and out in ten minutes. But hell, let’s go to single payer for health care. We’ll get…………the VA.

  61. anjin-san says:

    @Guarneri:

    what does that tell you about public health care?

    In this case, it tells me it’s badly underfunded, as well as being hampered by a legal framework that that has swung from powerless, easily victimized patients to being tilted too far in the direction of patients rights.

    Public health care can certainly work. My nephew had surgery at UCSF last week, it’s one of the best hospitals in the country. UC Davis Medical Center, also excellent, is right up the road. Anderson Cancer Center, Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center, Parkland – there are plenty of examples.

  62. anjin-san says:

    @Guarneri:

    But hell, let’s go to single payer for health care. We’ll get…………the VA.

    Single payer changes how we pay for health care, not how we deliver it.

  63. bill says:

    @Matt: reason #1 why we shouldn’t assume things?! 2 arab sounding “people”, 1 male-1 female. not implying anything just yet as that would be premature……but they “may” be muslims”
    so much for that spin job mr president and democrats et al. .

  64. Tyrell says:

    @Lit3Bolt: Since there are at least two suspects being sought most likely eliminates the mental health factor.
    I have not seen any new gun law proposals except those dealing with background checks.

  65. Todd says:

    This is the America we live in …

    In Colorado Springs, there are many indications that the shooter had at least some political/ideological motivations, but most news organizations were/still are reluctant to call it terrorism.

    Now in California, while all the facts aren’t out yet, it seems like there’s a fairly good chance that this shooting was the result of some sort of work place dispute. But as soon as the suspects were identified as Muslim, there was little hesitation among many (especially right leaning “news” organizations) to call them terrorists.

    It was interesting watching the Drudge Report headlines yesterday as the event was unfolding and there was still some doubt as to who the shooters were. It kept going back and forth between “terrorists” and “shooters”. The circumstances of the shooting didn’t change, 14 people were dead either way. But how we would classify the shooters (“terrorists” vs. “deranged gunmen”) was almost entirely dependent on confirmation of the color of their skin and their religious affiliation.

  66. Mu says:

    Latest reads like your typical workplace violence, a slight at a party, one worker returns with a gun. Then it’s two shooters, husband and wife, still, they’re using guns purchased legally years ago, nothing that sounds like some form of organized, pre-planed attack. Then you read they brought some homemade bomb, with is not what your typical couple has at home, not even in CA. So maybe some wanna-be terrorists? And that they leave behind a 6 months old daughter. You have to be a pretty determined terrorist for that.

  67. C. Clavin says:

    A heavily armed natural born American citizen shot up his workplace.
    Apparently no one was yelling anything about supernatural beings for whom there is no proof.
    Sure…there are some quirky details…that certainly don’t seem normal.
    But the only thing normal about killing 14 people…is that it happened in America.
    NRA normal.

  68. bill says:

    @C. Clavin: lol….how much crow can one person stand?!