Saturday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. OzarkHillbilly says:
  2. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Canada has officially named the US rightwing militia group Three Percenters as a terrorist entity alongside Isis and al-Qaida, saying it had an active presence in Canada and could threaten national security.

    Earlier this month US prosecutors obtained a conspiracy indictment against six men associated with the Three Percenters, the latest in a series of such charges arising from the 6 January attack at the Capitol by Donald Trump’s supporters.

    Canadian officials cited the riot and said members of the Three Percenters had been linked to a 2020 plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

    Canadian officials cited the January 6 riot in their listing. Public safety minister Bill Blair said the group had an active presence in Canada and were interested in recruiting members of the police and people with military training.

    “We monitor their activities in Canada with growing concern,” he told a news conference.
    …………………….
    The group’s assets can now be frozen by banks and financial institutions, and it is a crime for Canadians to knowingly deal with assets of a listed entity. Anyone belonging to such a group can be blocked from entering Canada.

    In February, Canada named the far-right Proud Boys a terrorist entity, saying it posed a “pivotal role” in the attack on the US Capitol.

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  3. CSK says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    She’s incredible. I watched that with my jaw flapping.

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  4. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: Two times she wobbled a bit on the balance beam. I guess she’s human after all.

    13 year old Kayla Han is one to watch in swimming, especially after that performance.

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  5. CSK says:

    Donald Trump will hold a rally in Wellington, Ohio (pop. 5000) today, mostly in order to trash Rep. Anthony Gonzales, who voted to impeach him. He will probably also whine about other Republicans who stabbed him in the back, as he sees it.

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  6. George says:

    WTF is going on with American police? A guy saves a policeman’s life, and is then shot and killed by the next policeman on the scene. The Floyd killing hasn’t taught them anything?

    https://www.newsweek.com/officer-shot-good-samaritan-johnny-hurley-who-killed-arvada-shooter-police-confirm-1604358

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  7. Sleeping Dog says:

    @George:

    So much for the hero with a gun theory…

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  8. Sleeping Dog says:

    @George:
    @Sleeping Dog:

    What happened is a logical outcome of the nexus of private citizens inserting themselves into crime scenes and today’s force protection police policies. Someone, particularly a cop is shot, and it should be expected that LEO’s arriving on the scene will shoot first and ask questions later.

    After Rep. Gabby Giffords was shot in Tucson several years ago, I heard and interview on NPR with one of the citizens that subdued the shooter. That person said he was carrying that day but left his gun holstered, knowing that arriving LEO’s would like come out shooting anyone with a gun. In fact he came around a corner of a building and found two men wrestling over a gun. The one who had possession, but not control, was another citizen who was trying to subdue the shooter. He said if he had come weapon out, he might have shot the wrong guy.

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  9. Kathy says:

    Malcolm Gladwell has lost it.

    In his latest season premiere of his podcast Revisionist History, he expects pedestrians and cyclists will take over the streets once self-driving cars are the norm, because these cars will act rationally and not hit people (or other cars), while people will go even more irrational and no longer use caution on the streets.

    Sure, this is one possible outcome. The “lost it” part is he thinks this is great, and is happily looking forward to the day he can run in the middle of the freeway, or cross six lanes of traffic to hug someone on the other side of the street.

    The cars may act rationally, be endlessly patient, and never get angry. The passengers in those cars will not be as forgiving as Darth Vader.

    To a lesser degree, he sounded like a shill for Waymo.

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  10. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    Good. maybe he can ruin the GOP for the Republicans, like he’s ruined everything else that doesn’t sufficiently kiss his orange ass.

    BTW Biden joke of the day:

    In an unaired portion of a debate, the following scene transpired:

    trump: Kiss my ass!
    Biden: You’ll have to be specific, Donnie. From where I’m standing, you’re all ass.

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  11. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: I don’t know what I’d do without the nearly daily reports of what’s going on with FG–probably try forget about him even more than I do now. Of course, forgetting about FG may not be the wisest possible course. [eyeroll emoji]

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  12. Gustopher says:

    @Kathy: At a startup company I worked for decades ago, one of the big investors was a self-described futurist. All of his big ideas stemmed from taking current trends and extrapolating to horrible conclusions, assuming no one would ever try to change those trends.

    He was also a libertarian.

    The world would be obese people wearing spandex, zipping about on Segways (this was before segways, so he was thinking little scooters), relying on medicines to prevent the medical issues associate with obesity.

    Also, Morlocks — a lower class kept out of sight.

    He was less a futurist than a guy who read HG Wells as a kid and remembered none of it, except he kept pulling up variations of the same idea.

    He was, however, right about cloud computing, back in 1998. Hard to tell if he was looking forward or back there, though.

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  13. dazedandconfused says:

    @George:

    To me that’s a very poor example of our general police ROE training problem. The officer arrives at an officer down situation and sees a guy standing there with an AR 15 in his hands? Unfortunate tragedy though it be, it’s also something of a case of who wouldn’t have shot him.

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  14. Gustopher says:

    @Kathy: My theory about cars:
    – we will get self-driving cars
    – we will get solar powered cars
    – we will combine them (obvious next step)
    – we will screw up the security
    – someone (14 year old boy, or Russian state actors) will hack in and set the cars free.
    – autonomous, self-driving, solar-powered cars will be loose in America
    – efforts to catch them will falter, but it will be decided that eventually the tires will wear out or something else will break.
    – people will be repairing broken ones and releasing them again, first as a joke, but then as an entirely earnest and stupid preservationist movement.

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  15. DrDaveT says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    The officer arrives at an officer down situation and sees a guy standing there with an AR 15 in his hands? Unfortunate tragedy though it be, it’s also something of a case of who wouldn’t have shot him.

    Except, of course, that this analysis is wholly incompatible with the Second Commandment Amendment absolutist view of gun rights. If you see someone standing in public with a firearm, you should assume that this person has every right to possess and wield that firearm until proven otherwise. If they’re white, that is.

    I keep coming back to my basic question: when the bad guys break into my home in the middle of the night yelling “Police! Freeze!”, what am I legally entitled to do with my legally-owned and licensed personal firearms? Anyone? Buehler? That’s a much more clear-cut case than the “officer down in public” case, but we still can’t deal with it coherently.

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  16. gVOR08 says:

    @Kathy: I wonder if Gladwell remembers that an Uber test car hit and killed a woman walking a bicycle in AZ a couple years ago. The Volvo test car came with an emergency braking system that would have stopped it, but Uber had disabled it.

    As autonomous vehicles become more common, I expect people to take advantage of them and ratfuck with them. Many people now seem to think they can just turn on a signal and change lanes without finding a hole. It’ll probably be easy to force a self-driven car to yield. I occasionally see Tesla’s in “autopilot”. You can tell because they hold position between the lane lines very precisely. That and the driver has a phone in their face. Always sore tempted to pull alongside and start inching over, or pull in front and brake.

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  17. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    I wish I’d never heard of Trump, but, as numerous people have observed, he’s going to be an ugly and unfortunately very prominent feature of the U.S. political landscape for at least a few more years.

    He’ll do these rallies until he’s physically prevented from holding them, because they serve his two greatest needs: for adulation and for revenge.

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  18. Kathy says:

    @Gustopher:

    Not too dissimilar from the premise in Sally

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  19. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: And it never occurs to him that a car which thinks rationally will be incapable of anticipating the irrational acts of humans?

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: I don’t know what I’d do without the nearly daily reports of what’s going on with FG

    Ignorance is bliss, so I guess that’s where you’d blissfully live.

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  20. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: Certainly. That’s what makes completely ignoring him “not the wisest available choice.” Still if your reach doesn’t exceed your grasp, what’s a world for?

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  21. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    Heaven knows.

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  22. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: 😀

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  23. wr says:

    @Gustopher: “He was, however, right about cloud computing, back in 1998. Hard to tell if he was looking forward or back there, though.”

    Interesting. What would he have been looking back at?

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  24. MarkedMan says:

    @gVOR08:

    I expect people to take advantage of them and ratfuck with them.

    I understand that in retirement villages that only allow speed limited golf carts, the first thing most people do when they get one is bring it to the “that guy” who knows how to disable the speed limiter.

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  25. MarkedMan says:

    @CSK: Part of my morning ritual is to go to YouTube and see what the late night comedians have to say. I find I am tuning Kimmel out more and more because he is still talking endlessly about TFG. I don’t want to hear about his soap opera unless and until he gets indicted.

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  26. MarkedMan says:

    @wr: Networked computing? I’m trying to remember the name of the 90s era attempt to sell PCs that were essentially very smart terminals. Some things were processed locally but most of the grunt work, CPU-wise, was done via a hefty computer on the network.

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  27. Kathy says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It doesn’t occur to him that pedestrians who completely disregard traffic, will find out that the superhuman reaction time of autonomous cars is not instantaneous.

    On the other hand, programming the car to notify emergency services should be a simple matter.

    Now, if the autonomous ambulance gets bogged down in traffic, caused by people crossing the street where they want, children playing baseball on the street, Gladwell doing his daily run in the middle of the freeway, cyclists pedaling in packs, etc., there’s little comfort in taking back the streets.

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  28. CSK says:

    @MarkedMan:
    Well, there’s this:
    http://www.rawstory.com/trump-org-criminal
    and this:
    http://www.news.yahoo.com/trump-organization-could-reportedly-face-182609433.html

    If I were a Republican party operative, I’d be desperately hoping Trump would be tossed in prison, because short of his death, it’s the only way they’ll ever be rid of him.

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  29. dazedandconfused says:

    @DrDaveT:

    I keep coming back to my basic question: when the bad guys break into my home in the middle of the night yelling “Police! Freeze!”, what am I legally entitled to do with my legally-owned and licensed personal firearms? Anyone? Buehler? That’s a much more clear-cut case than the “officer down in public” case, but we still can’t deal with it coherently.

    I view the officer down situation as the more clear cut. In the other scenario we have a situation, if both sides follow their rationalizations to their bitter ends, of everybody being entitled to blow the other guy away. As Oliver Hardy might put it: “And a fine mess this is!”

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  30. Gustopher says:

    @MarkedMan: Yup. A combination of Networked Computing and data centers — combining them and coming to running apps rather than just servers.

    We were building a special client-server framework using the early JVM as a container.

    There was also a desperate hope that the future wouldn’t be html and JavaScript, but that didn’t come to pass.

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  31. HarvardLaw92 says:

    Today, in “Why reporters who cover legal issues would benefit from actually attending law school”:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/26/politics/voting-rights-act-arizona-georgia-supreme-court/index.html

    Throw a headline up, and then spend several paragraphs (somewhat badly) explaining why the headline is BS.

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  32. CSK says:

    @HarvardLaw92:
    The headlines aren’t normally written by the person who writes the article. You, the author, can title your piece. Some editor will almost invariably change it.

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  33. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @MarkedMan: Citrix? One of the school districts I work at has Citrix terminals in the classrooms for the teachers. Very compact. Saves a lot of desk space, even over a laptop.

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  34. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @DrDaveT: Alas, your real problem doesn’t come from bad guys breaking into your house. The real problem comes when the Police break into your house. I assume you’re not black, so your problem will be smaller, but it will still be big. Hope you know a good lawyer.

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  35. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @CSK:

    Understood, but at least try to be concise. Sheesh.

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  36. Teve says:

    @Gustopher:

    There was also a desperate hope that the future wouldn’t be html and JavaScript, but that didn’t come to pass.

    The last time I coded anything, the Web was all PHP and JavaScript. 😀

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  37. MarkedMan says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: Client/Server, which someone mentioned above, was what I was thinking of. Citrix falls into that category. Interestingly, many businesses use Citrix, but not to save money on employee’s computers. Your school seems to be the exception, although the security, having everyone on the same version with the same options, eliminating the need to constantly upgrade hundreds or thousands of computers, and other benefits probably weigh in there too.

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  38. CSK says:

    @HarvardLaw92:
    I won’t argue with you there.

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  39. Teve says:

    @rightwingwatch

    Pat Robertson says critical race theory is “a monstrous evil” that is urging people of color to “rise up and overtake their oppressors” so that once they’ve “gotten the whip handle,” they’ll then “instruct their white neighbors how to behave.” bit.ly/35ONID7

    Seems like you’re admitting there’s a whip which is being wielded by white people.

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  40. Teve says:

    https://news.yahoo.com/hotel-chain-ceo-says-bigger-135553853.html

    Business Insider
    A hotel chain CEO says bigger tips, not raises and bonuses, could stop workers quitting and ease the labor shortage. He’s now encouraging guests to opt into tips as they arrive.

    Please give my employees more money because I sure as hell won’t.

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  41. George says:

    @DrDaveT:

    Being white doesn’t seem to be that much help actually — this guy was white, so was Daniel Shaver (killed by police while crawling unarmed down a hallway begging for his life). Being rich on the other hand seems to work very well against police — how many billionaires (or even people worth tens of millions) are killed by police every year?

    In most places the police, on seeing someone with a gun, start with “Put your hands up” and “Drop the gun”, rather than shooting first and asking questions later.

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  42. George says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    In most places the police, on seeing someone with a gun, start with “Put your hands up” and “Drop the gun”, rather than shooting first and asking questions later. If the person doesn’t drop the gun then (in most countries) the shooting starts.

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  43. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Teve: He’s 91 years old. I’d be willing to bet that he can’t remember what he said 15 minutes after saying it most of the time. Anything he’s saying about racial matters, he probably channeling from what he believed in 1965 or so.

    ETA: WA! Got to correct my first draft revision today. Yee haw!

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  44. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @George: In most places the police, on seeing someone with a gun, start with “Put your hands up” and “Drop the gun”, rather than shooting first and asking questions later.

    Unless the person is black. See Tamir Rice, John Crawford, Philando Castille, George Floyd, Laquan McDonald, Breonna Taylor, Walter Scott, Levar Jones, etc etc etc.

    eta: just for the record, none of the above had a gun.

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  45. DrDaveT says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    Alas, your real problem doesn’t come from bad guys breaking into your house. The real problem comes when the Police break into your house.

    I figured the readers here would be able to make that leap without prompting. If the behavior required by the police to prevent them from murdering you in your home would also nullify all rights to defend one’s home against invaders pretending to be cops, that’s a solution acceptable only to the police.

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  46. Gustopher says:

    @DrDaveT: I believe that the solution is simple: when you hear someone beating down your door, look into your heart and ask yourself whether you have done anything to warrant the police executing a no-knock or nearly-no-nock warrant in the middle of the night.

    If you cannot see into your heart, turn on your bedside light and examine the color of your skin.

    Would any judge knowingly sign off on sending the police to invade the home of a suburban white person?

    Mistakes will happen, of course, but the odds are in your favor. You can’t live in fear, of something with such a tiny chance of killing white suburban you.

    It’s like covid: its far more dangerous to those other people who have lived their lives badly by getting pre-existing conditions or getting old.

    You’re worrying over other people… you’re worrying over nothing.

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  47. Gustopher says:

    My brother sent me a video which he claims is of a current anti-lockdown rally in London. I don’t trust my brother on anything, so I don’t know whether it is real… but…

    My immediate reaction is that it’s time to start deliberately infecting the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers. At a certain point you can’t argue with the willfully stupid. If they want to go for herd immunity the old fashioned way… let’s get it over with.

    So, I guess I am in favor of weaponizing a virus and deploying biological weapons against protesters. Go figure.

    (I would also accept FEMA re-education camps, and offering them a choice of vaccine or virus — I’m not a cruel man)

    My brothers are also sending me “climate change is a hoax” stuff, while it’s 100 degrees in Seattle, and the next few days will be worse.

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  48. George says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Or poor and white. Like Daniel Shavers, or any of the 50+ unarmed white men killed by police every year.

    Three times more blacks and indigenous people per capita are killed by police than whites every year. Hundreds of thousands more poor people (of any race) per capita are killed by police than rich people (of any race) are killed by year. Which do you think is a bigger factor in police killings, race or wealth?

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  49. DrDaveT says:

    @George:

    Which do you think is a bigger factor in police killings, race or wealth?

    In any given encounter, race — and it isn’t even close. In a traffic stop, the white janitor has much better odds than the black executive.

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