Saturday’s Forum

Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter


  1. Kathy says:

    You know what’s nice? When you wake up thinking it’s Friday, then realize it’s Saturday.

  2. de stijl says:

    @dazedandconfused and @JohnSf had and very interesting exchange yesterday about Russia’s perceived “sphere of influence”.

    Focused on Ukraine. Not always specifically about in that exchange, but most applicable to.

    I read it hours after the exchange happened: d&c’s arguments enraged me. Jsf responded respectfully with counterpoints.

    On another thread someone (@Kathy maybe? Others chimed in) about Autocracy, state, Orthodoxy, and power/influence thought within Russia.

    Russia views the world through a very different lens than does western Europe and the US. They see themselves as beset and threatened by foreign foes and cultures on every front.

    When it was the former USSR it encompassed much more internal ethnic diversity than likely any other nation. I would have to look it up, but it likely borders more neighbor states than any other country on earth.

    When it was the heart of USSR and even before it often dealt with control and authority issues by internally exporting / colonizing ethnic Rus populations into their borderlands as the new de facto upper class and ruling class.

    Russia sees Ukraine as a rogue separatist break-away state. Everyone else sees Ukraine as a sovereign nation.

    In retrospect, I can see dazedandconfused POV while still firmly, wholeheartedly within JohnSf’s camp and worldview.

  3. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @de stijl: They see themselves as beset and threatened by foreign foes and cultures on every front.

    That is by design and in the playbook of every autocracy. Tell the populace that the real enemies are out there and trying to get them, and they will be distracted from the rogering they are getting in every way from the man at top there at home.

  4. de stijl says:


    Last month I was off on the date by a full week when I had to sign something and date it.

    “What date is it today? The 7th?” I asked.

    “Um… It’s the 14th, sir.”

    I was both embarrassed and pleased. Retirement has privileges.

    You no longer have to care and pay attention to matters crucially important to people still working about things like days or dates. It’s pretty fucking sweet, actually.

    To me, it really does not matter. I still pay attention to days mostly for shows I want to watch.

    Not long ago I tuned to PBS at 11 am expecting to see America’s Test Kitchen. It took several minutes before I figured out today was actually Sunday not Saturday.

  5. de stijl says:


    Putin is quite good at it.

    Internal enemies too. Homosexuals and Navalny. Amongst others.

  6. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Ex-St. Louis Police Officer Gets Two Weekends in Jail, (3 years) Probation for Covering Up Beating

    Her boyfriend got 52 months, the other 2 cops were convicted in a 2nd trial after their first one ended with a hung jury and have yet to be sentenced.

    I bring this up for the sole purpose of quoting the closing paragraph:

    More than 120 people were arrested the same night as Hall, leading to dozens of similar complaints of police abuse. No charges have been filed in response to any of those complaints.

    In other news, water is still wet, fire is still hot.

  7. OzarkHillbilly says:


    Cheri Jacobus

    found on FB:

    “When the pandemic is over, every town in the South should have a statue of the coronavirus so they don’t forget their history.”

  8. Mikey says:

    This isn’t really surprising. Grifting now, grifting tomorrow, grifting forever!

    MAGA World’s ‘Freedom Phone’ Actually Budget Chinese Phone

    Freedom Phone’s website is nearly totally devoid of technical information about the device. Finman declares in the promotional video that the Freedom Phone is “comparable to the best smartphones on the market” and “truly is the best phone in the world.”

    In fact, Freedom Phone appears to be a simple rebranding of a budget phone called the “Umidigi A9 Pro,” made by the Chinese tech company Umidigi. In an interview with The Daily Beast, Finman confirmed that the Freedom Phone was manufactured by Umidigi, but couldn’t say immediately which Umidigi phone it was based on.

    The Freedom Phone’s $500 price tag would represent a substantial markup on the Umidigi A9 Pro. That phone is available on Chinese retail giant AliExpress for $120 — less than one quarter of the price of a Freedom Phone.

    But wait, there’s more!

    The ‘Freedom Phone’ that far-right leaders are hawking is a cheap Chinese Android—and a security nightmare

    Matthew Hickey, co-founder of the cybersecurity firm Hacker House, told the Daily Dot that the Freedom Phone appears to be nothing more than a rebranded Umidigi A9 Pro—a Chinese smartphone that costs as little as $119 on AliExpress.

    “This device is a drop-shipped customizable Android-based phone,” Hickey said. “They can be bought and shipped in bulk from Asia with custom logos and branding so as to give the appearance of a phone that has been designed for a unique purpose.”

    Hickey added that the phone is notorious for its poor security due largely to its use of processors from MediaTek, a Taiwanese company that provides chips for smartphones.

    “I have never encountered a secure MediaTek device in my entire life,” Hickey said. “Using MediaTek for anything and expecting privacy or security is fundamentally flawed.”

    Hickey even stated that MediaTek’s processors are widely used in smartphones throughout North Korea due to their “highly customizable nature and low-security barrier,” which allows the regime to easily implement surveillance backdoors.

  9. CSK says:

    I’ve never mentioned this before, but the curt directive to “Speak Your Mind” always makes me smile. I should put it on my voicemail.

  10. de stijl says:


    Do it!

    It will make you smile and amuse your friends.

    Annoy telemarketers. There is no downside.

  11. CSK says:

    @de stijl:
    I believe you’re right about that.

  12. CSK says:

    In the matter of the January 6 insurrection, here’s a Trumpkin, one Sandra Kiczenski, age 56, providing her perspective:
    “We weren’t there to steal things. We weren’t there to do damage. We were just there to overthrow the government.”

    Whew. Glad she cleared that up.

  13. de stijl says:


    An abrupt “State your business” would work too. I had a better idea.

    I leave my voicemail greeting intentionally blank, null. Ten seconds of silence.

    People who know me know they can leave a message. People who don’t get weirded out and hang up. Telemarketers and phone bots can fuck right the fuck off.

    I do not do “X is not available now. Please leave a message.” Leave ’em guessing. It freaks actual human cold callers out.

    “Um… Is this X? I want to contact X… [hang up]”

    Highly recommended.

  14. CSK says:

    @de stijl:
    That’s exactly what I already do. Works like a charm.

  15. de stijl says:

    One obscure Twitch streamer I sometimes tune into did a blind, first playthrough stream of a game I have sunk hundreds of hours into – a bit obsessively.

    I immediately wanted to help and guide, but that would have been wrong. I had to stop myself repeatedly from offering advice.

    Figuring out stuff for yourself is key. That’s a huge part of the fun.

    I would never take that away from someone.

    I gave two very vague nudges in chat then decided that was too much and decided to shut up.

    It was very hard to watch. “Dude! No! Don’t do that!” It was so excruciating I had to switch to something else after a half hour.

    Watching someone else grasp the bare basics is really difficult. I almost chewed my fingers off not helping. It’s too stressful.

  16. de stijl says:


    Everybody I know I want to talk with is already in my contact list.

    If it comes up with a name, I answer. (Mostly. I have limits on a few folks.)

    If it comes up with random number/unknown caller, I never do. Why would I? Why would anyone?

  17. Kathy says:


    I’m not saying every product labeled as MAGA is a scam, but that is the way to bet.

  18. Kathy says:

    @de stijl:

    That tends to happen when I’m on vacation. One of the joys of extended goofing off is losing track of time.

  19. Teve says:
  20. Sleeping Dog says:

    @de stijl:

    A friend long used this greeting.

    Hello, this is Jim


    Uh Huh,


    Uh huh,


  21. Teve says:

    “I know they have the climate portion in here, and I’m concerned about that,” Manchin said moments after Biden met with Senate Democrats in the Capitol on Wednesday.

    “Because if they’re eliminating fossils, and I’m finding out there’s a lot of language in places they’re eliminating fossils, which is very, very disturbing, because if you’re sticking your head in the sand, and saying that fossil (fuel) has to be eliminated in America, and they want to get rid of it, and thinking that’s going to clean up the global climate, it won’t clean it up all. If anything, it would be worse.”

    would you be Shocked to discover that Manchin has made millions off coal? I can hardly believe he is blocking filibuster reform!

  22. Teve says:


    Most employers are encouraging covid-19 vaccination rather than requiring it as a condition of employment.

    However, note that the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has issued guidance that as of today, vaccination can indeed be made mandatory.

    Bout to be some unhappy rednecks who work for major corporations.

  23. gVOR08 says:

    @de stijl: Yes, being retired does undercut the influence of the work week cycle On the other hand, it does kinda ruin weekends and holidays. I keep track because school activity drives a lot of traffic in this bedroom community and so I can be sure to avoid dining out on Fri or Sat evenings. Much less crowded on, say, Tuesday. As are beaches. (We only dine out outdoors and we mask, although in our little corner of FL we’re about the only people who do. Cases have quadrupled over the last couple weeks.)

  24. de stijl says:


    I will take undifferentiated days over Sunday evening blues any day of the week.

    There were times I was semi-psyched to get back to work. The thought of Monday morning was fairly juicy. There were times when the thought of Monday morning filled me with dread.

    Times when there was no delineation between work week and week-end. It was work all day every day.

    The antithesis of retirement is crunch. On one project I worked every single day for almost seven months is a row. Average day was 14 hours.

    Weekends were easier, less fools getting in my way. No phone calls. No e-mails. No bosses.

    I could tick boxes off my task list quickly and efficiently.

    Same for after 5 pm on weekdays. All the bosses have gone home. Time to get some actual work done instead of talking about it. 5 to 10 pm was my sweet spot.

    Once I went to work Friday 8 am and went home on Sunday 3 pm. Crunch plus there. That weekend was very intense and ultimately really pointless. Many hundreds of person hours wasted on minor thing no end user noticed ever. To satisfy one person’s ego.

  25. Sleeping Dog says:

    Collapse Raises New Fears About Florida’s Shaky Insurance Market
    Insurers were already skittish after losses from repeated hurricanes. The recent condo collapse has brought new insecurity. How long will Florida’s coast be insurable?

    When Champlain Towers South collapsed I was curious as to how the insurance payouts would occur. As would be expected the owners will be screwed.

    For the people who lived at Champlain Towers South, any insurance payout is likely to be limited. While many residents had individual policies on their furniture and other belongings, the bigger payouts must come from the mega-policies on the building itself. Lawyers for the condominium association and its insurers have said that the complex had about $30 million in property coverage and $18 million in liability coverage.
    Susana Alvarez, 62, who escaped the building’s collapse and is living for now in a rental, said she worries that she will not be compensated for the $150,000 in renovations she put into her unit, including a new kitchen, floors and windows.

    “It’s not about what I paid to own the apartment,” she said. “It’s about what it’s worth now.”

    Mr. Rosenthal has a similar worry. When he first bought his 1,560-square-foot unit in 2001, hoping to spend the rest of his life there, he paid $250,000 for it; the unit’s reappraisal two years ago put its value at $650,000.

    He would at least like to be able to pay off his mortgage, and with that in mind, he has joined one of several lawsuits against the building’s condo association. The survivors, he said, will look well beyond the building’s limited insurance policy, “suing anybody and everybody that’s involved.”

    Understandably the insurance companies are beginning to withdraw from the FL coastal market (and likely other high risk markets), so socialize the losses.

    As private insurers pull back, more homeowners are buying coverage from Citizens Property Insurance, a state-owned entity that was meant to be the insurer of last resort — a backstop for people who could not find coverage on the regular market.

    Now, instead of being a backstop, Citizens provides more residential insurance policies than almost any private insurer in Florida, according to state data.

    But those policies offer less coverage for various types of damage. And because they are ultimately backed by the state government, taxpayers could be on the hook if a major hurricane overwhelmed the ability of Citizens to pay claims.

    “If there are catastrophic losses, the backstop there is not some sophisticated reinsurance market — it’s the citizens of Florida,” Dr. Keenan of Tulane said. “And it could be totally devastating.”

  26. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Sleeping Dog: Mine says, “You know what to do.”

  27. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Kyle Griffin


    Republicans’ confidence in science is nearly 30 points lower than in 1975.

    1975: 72% of Republicans had confidence in science
    2021: 45% of Republicans have confidence in science
    10:00 AM · Jul 17, 2021·TweetDeck

    3% of Scientists have confidence in Republicans.

  28. Teve says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: frank luntz posted that this was troubling, and everybody replied, yeah, thanks for being a bigly contributor to this, Asshole.

  29. dazedandconfused says:

    @de stijl:
    Sorry I offended you, perhaps my comment of today on that thread will abate that a bit.

  30. OzarkHillbilly says:


    Think about that

    Make no mistake- a state that criminalizes abortion but ranks 50th in public education doesn’t give a shit about children.

    – Stephanie Wittels Wachs

  31. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Teve: He’s innocent, INNOCENT he tells us.

  32. de stijl says:


    Offended me? Initially yes. I got Grr! Angry Man for a bit, but I get over shit pretty quick.

    I don’t know if there is wisdom in your POV in the Russia vs. Ukraine scuffle. I believe not.

    I do know Putin is a rat bastard and Russia would be better served by almost anyone else.

    You taught me that I was seeing this as sovereign nation vs. nation only. But within Russia it is seen differently by establishment influential folks.

    I still do not agree, but you gave me insight to a different POV.

    Have not read your new comment yet. Just telling you where my head was at earlier.

  33. de stijl says:


    I have to ask. Why no value judgement statement in your comment?

  34. dazedandconfused says:

    @de stijl:

    My interest is only in relating the way the Russian feel about it, and it’s more plausible to me than their being ideologically bent on destroying democracy. They have become capitalists IMO, and also IMO their actions have been entirely consistent to that hypothesis. The USSR ran around trying to tamp down democracy and instill Marxism, but that was the past. I see no evidence they have adopted authoritarianism as an ideology in the way the USSR adopted Marxism, yet that appears to be the prevailing view in the US at the moment.

    If I grasp the value judgement question correctly, I don’t seek to judge the Russians, I only seek to understand them.

  35. OzarkHillbilly says:

    This is beautiful:


    I am thinking of replacing my electric car with a petrol car and have some questions.
    1. I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home?
    2. Which parts will I need service on and how often? The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?
    3. Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?
    4. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill? I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.
    5. The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?
    6. We currently pay about 1.2p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 10 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 20,000 miles a year. Let’s hope more people will start using petrol so prices go down.
    7. Is it true that petrol is flammable? Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?
    8. Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?
    9. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution to these problems?

    I may have more questions later, but these are the most important ones to me at the moment. Thank you in advance for your reply.

  36. de stijl says:


    In ostentatiously studiously not making a value judgement you risk looking like you support the thinking you describe.

  37. de stijl says:


    Awesome find!

    I bookmarked that.

  38. Teve says:


    Arkansas state legislature made it “illegal for any state or local entity, including public hospitals, to require coronavirus vaccination as a condition of education or employment until two years after the Food and Drug Administration fully licenses a shot.”

    Take That, Libtards!

  39. de stijl says:


    I understand a jilted ex power play. Petty and vengeful and controlling.

    When the aggrieved party contacted a lawyer in this scenario (EU and US) the stalker relented fearing harsh retribution.

    You are implicitly asking me to side with the creepy vengeful stalker. They legit broke up in front of everybody.

    Will not. That would be monstrous.

  40. JohnMcC says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: As you obviously know electric cars were part of the beginning of motoring. Here’s a sort of catalogue composed for the internet I s’pose of 1907 advertising for electrics:

  41. JohnSF says:

    Arriving a bit late to this.

    My interest is only in relating the way the Russian feel about it

    That’s my interest also, but I really think the basis of understanding the action of Russia is in elite opinion, rather than public opinion.

    I don’t think one of your starting points, that Powers should be somewhat cautious when dealing with other Powers perceived key interests, is wrong headed in itself. Not deferential, mind, but duly prudent.
    But I don’t think that can allow the West to ignore flagrant violations of international norms. Norms that are themselves in Russia’s longer term interest.
    Or to disdain protestors against oligarchic rule as illegitimate because they irritate Russian pride.

    My interest is of fairly long standing; my thesis advisor was a specialist in modern Russian history and the history of European communism.
    (In some respects, at least some of his likely arguments on this subject might be closer to yours than mine)
    I also have a cousin married to a Ukrainian; whose family happens to come from near Kaharkov, speak Russian, but are nonetheless Ukrainian nationalists.

    I think you are making a basic error in assuming that a shared language and history entails a common national identity.
    If you doubt me, I invite you to visit Edinburgh or Dublin and inform the Scots or Irish you meet that because they don’t speak Gaelic, they are therefore “really” English, and they must defer to English interests.
    You may not find all the replies polite.

    …ideologically bent on destroying democracy.

    I doubt that they are determined on that; more they find jamming a spoke in the wheel amusing
    I do think they have ZERO inclination toward non-decorative democracy in Russia.
    Perhaps more important, they will not permit the Law to be a impartial system, but are determined it should be a tool in the hands of the rulers.
    Without legal autonomy there is little hope of a market modernization and a move away from a slowly declining oil/mines based economy.

    They have become capitalists IMO

    Agreed. But of an oligarchic, cartelised capitalism. It is legally rule based markets they reject, not the pursuit of profit.

    I see no evidence they have adopted authoritarianism as an ideology in the way the USSR adopted Marxism

    On that we must agree to differ; it is not a proselytising ideology like Bolshevism, but IMO it is definitely a set, coherent worldview of “anti-liberalism”.
    (Liberalism in a very broad sense, not that of US politics; which some foolish American “Conservatives” fail to grasp. Don’t mean you here 🙂 )

    If I grasp the value judgement question correctly, I don’t seek to judge the Russians, I only seek to understand them.

    I’m rather inclined to both.
    I don’t think this is the settled opinion of the Russian people; but I also think the Russian ruling class have not the slightest inclination of inviting the peoples opinions on the matter.
    I wish to understand the rulers of Russia; but I cannot refrain from judging them.
    I believe them to be self-serving fools.

  42. dazedandconfused says:

    @de stijl:

    In ostentatiously studiously not making a value judgement you risk looking like you support the thinking you describe.

    Yes, I am aware of the danger, confusing analysis for advocacy is quite common, just don’t fear those particular slings and arrows.

  43. dazedandconfused says:


    We can disagree. I will ask what the international norms are in the area of fomenting revolutions in other countries though.

    I have not implied shared languages are THE marker of national identity, just that the language and history of the Donbass and the rest of what we call the Ukraine are very different, and that somebody drew a line on a map around it all does not a nation make. The different languages are but a marker of those differences.

  44. JohnSF says:

    Just looked at that comment.
    I agree that Russian motives in election meddling and hacking etc is more based on a dislike for American policy than any “anti-democracy” crusade.
    Though I would also include pure, spiteful, malice; consider the resentment of the defeated in other historic situations (say the US South; or Weimar Germany) and turn it up to 11.

    The Russian regime would doubtless be perfectly happy with a world order that allowed them to trade with the West, launder and bank their gains there, and retain nice villas on the Riviera, mansions in London, and luxury apartments in New York.
    And the West accepted the view of Moscow that the “successor states” are required to subordinate themselves to the Kremlin.
    Problem: we cannot, and will not, do so; not without abandoning key components of the post-Cold War legal order.
    Even if the US did, the EU will not.
    The Germans are all for conciliation, and unrealistic devotion to “Wandel durch Handel”
    (“But the vandals stole the handles”, as I usually add 🙂

    But they are not prepared to abandon the concepts of legal order, of the Rechtsstaat that is fundamental to the system structure.

    BTW: IMO Americans tend too default to viewing the people (and hence democracy) not the state as the basis of legitimacy.
    European concepts are rather different; e.g in the UK the Crown is the formal sovereign authority, as it was in pre-1919 Germany. British people are both citizens AND subjects (it’s messy).
    Key difference from Russian autocratic tradition: eg the rechtstaat and the English concept of the Crown’s obligation to uphold and act within the law etc
    This contrasts with the Russian tradition (which derives in turn from Byzantine/Roman concepts of absolute imperial power OVER the law).

    The law is to be a tool in the hands of the ruler, not a constraint upon his rule.

  45. JohnSF says:


    …somebody drew a line on a map around it all does not a nation make.

    Maybe not.
    But the nations, including Russia, are obliged to respect those boundaries, no matter how they find them disagreeable.
    This was a lesson hammered into Europe by the events of the 1930’s.
    Germany may or may not have had some sort of transcendentally extra-legal right to overule the sovereignty of Austria, or Czechoslovakia re. the solidly German Sudetenland, or Danzig, or Upper Silesia, or…
    Such argumentation is perilous in the extreme.

    Donbas and/or Crimea may (or may not) be “pro-Russian”.

    That does not mean Russia has a right to declare them Russian and seize them

    There may have been a case for international mediations, and agreed border adjustments, or internationally guaranteed autonomous authorities. There was none for unilateral land-grab by Russia, that was clearly motivated by the regimes sheer rage at the overthrow of Yanukovich rather than any long-standing demand for separation.

    Also, for even more egregious Putinist intervention, we could consider the oft forgotten Russo-Georgian War of 2008.
    Which was, of course, solely motivated by the intense and long standing sentimental devotion of the Russian people to status of South Ossetia and Abkahazia in Georgia.

  46. de stijl says:


    You only “analyze” one side repeatedly. You do not “analyze” the competing side ever.

  47. JohnSF says:

    Another comment dazedandconfused:

    Russia has not claimed sovereignty over the Ukraine.

    No, it has merely asserted its right to decide by military force that parts of the Ukraine belong to Russia.

  48. dazedandconfused says:

    @de stijl:
    I need a specific on what I am not analyzing to respond.

  49. JohnSF says:


    I will ask what the international norms are in the area of fomenting revolutions in other countries though.

    Actually, rather hazy, and dependent on who’s doing the asking, and the “fomenting”, usually.

    The EU would certainly argue it was not fomenting revolution, but insisting that a trade agreement was conditional on meeting norms re. the rule of law.

    Other actors continued to support the Ukrainian protests (as they have indicated sympathy for more recent ones in Belarus) but is that “fomenting”?
    Moscow says yes; but then they would, wouldn’t they?

    I may be a little prejudiced insofar as in the UK various Brexiteers, ultra-Tories and other anti-EU types (including ones traceable to City interests in “handling” Russian “investments”) have been trying to use this a a stick to beat Brussels for years. And IMO its a crock.

    Besides which:
    “Fomenting” may be dodgy; invasions of “little green men” followed by armoured divisions and massive artillery bombardments are a whole other thing entirely.

    This is no “asymmetric response” or “hacking” or whatever: it is an invasion of a sovereign state, in flagrant contravention of international law, that has caused the deaths of some 30,000 people, and the displacement of some 2.5 million refugees in Ukraine.

    Doubtless they were all so eager to welcome their Russian liberators they got confused in their joy and ran in the opposite direction by mistake?

  50. Teve says:


    I quit my teaching job and now make more bartending for 15 less hours week. Also I get blamed for way way less and get told thank you way way more. No lesson plans or grading papers.

    Remember this when people ask about the teacher shortage.

  51. Jax says:

    I’ve had several opportunities to discuss shots with people I come into contact with that are Trumpies. They absolutely refuse to get vaccinated because of stories they’ve heard “from people in healthcare”, (i.e, my aunt is a nurse, my friend’s a doctor, some person they know is an EMT nurse in Vegas) of horror stories they’ve been told about people who’ve had a bad reaction to the shot itself. From their perspective, the reaction to the shots has been as bad as COVID itself, so they’ll continue to take their chances.

    I can gently point out that we’ve given over 300 million shots so far and fatal reactions have been next to none, but they’re not gonna give up what they’ve heard second hand.

    Shame on their friends in the healthcare field for spreading so much misinformation. Or maybe they don’t actually have friends in the healthcare field, they’re basing it on shit they saw on YouTube and rephrasing it so it’s “a friend, or person they trust”…..

    Whatever, they’re not getting their shots.